Bangkok Post Thinks That Earthquakes In Indonesia Were Man-made!

[clausewitz]

Yes folks the Editorial in todays Bangkok Post says it is due to a lack of commitment to green policies that climate change has now caused the recent earthquakes. Thaivisa now no longer allows members to even quote a few words from a Bangkok post article so I post only the link. I hope links are permitted?

[mrtoad]

I think I'll give the link a miss, sounds like a lot of sensationalist nonsense to me.

[bkkjames]

All the extra water in the oceans apparently is putting too much pressure on the earth's core, causing earthquakes...

[Jingthing]

I agree, blaming earthquakes on man made global climate change is bonkers. Of course just because there is a silly editorial writer does not mean that man made global climate change is not a very critical issue. Maybe in the case of Samoa they were trying to make a connection to the fact that south Pacific islands are losing their land to the ocean and that is being blamed on man made global climate change. If so, they did a poor job of that.

Edited October 2, 2009 by Jingthing

[slapout]

I will try not to stereotype anyone on this but it reminds me of the first grade class, who was asked for and made comments on the origin of the universe (majority said they did not know, honest little buggers). Some people just seem to continually speak/comment on topics with a self proclaimed expertise, when in truth they would have a difficult time pouring piss out of a boot with directions written on the heel.

[Patong Bob]

Back after the 2004 tsunamis I knew an Aussie bloke who firmly believed they were caused by the CIA to damage his business.

They were watching him from a satellite too, and he usually had an open umbrella so they couldn't read his lips.

Just as likely I suppose.

[ff978472]

Skyscraper that may cause earthquakes

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2005...s.climatechange

Taipei 101 is a building with a lot to boast about. Standing 508 metres (1,667ft) high, it is the world's tallest. And at 700,000 tonnes, it must be among the heaviest.

But the sheer size of the Taiwan skyscraper has raised unexpected concerns that may have far-reaching implications for the construction of other buildings and man-made megastructures. Taipei 101 is thought to have triggered two recent earthquakes because of the stress that it exerts on the ground beneath it.

According to the geologist Cheng Horng Lin, from the National Taiwan Normal University, the stress from the skyscraper may have reopened an ancient earthquake fault. If he is right, then it raises concerns about proposals such as Sky City 1000 in Japan, the vertical city that has been proposed to solve Tokyo's housing problems. And it is not just skyscrapers that are a problem. Dams and underground waste deposits may also cause rumblings if they become too large.

Before the construction of Taipei 101, the Taipei basin was a very stable area with no active earthquake faults at the surface. Its earthquake activity was similar to parts of the UK, with micro-earthquakes (less than magnitude 2) happening about once a year.

However, once Taipei 101 started to rise from the ground, things changed. "The number of earthquakes increased to around two micro-earthquakes per year during the construction period (1997 to 2003).

"Since the construction finished there have been two larger earthquakes (magnitude 3.8 and 3.2) directly beneath Taipei 101, which were big enough to feel," says Dr Lin.

Using the construction information, Dr Lin has calculated how much pressure Taipei 101 exerts on the ground. The weight of steel and concrete came to more than 700,000 tonnes. This is spread over an area of 15,081 square metres (3.7 acres), meaning that it exerts a huge pressure of 4.7 bars on the ground below. "The construction of Taipei 101 is totally different to many other high-rise buildings because it used hybrid structures made of both concrete and steel, to give it added protection from earthquakes and fire. Therefore it has a huge vertical loading on its foundation," says Dr Lin.

And it is this exceptional downward stress that Dr Lin thinks may have caused the extra earthquakes.

"I think that the considerable stress might be transferred into the upper crust due to the extremely soft sedimentary rocks beneath the Taipei basin. Deeper down this may have reopened an old earthquake fault," suggests Dr Lin in his paper, published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.

Other experts are more cautious about blaming the skyscraper for the earthquakes. "A building will change the stress on the ground under the building, but this probably won't reach down to around 10km, the level where the earthquakes occurred," says John Vidale, an earthquake expert at the University of California in Los Angeles.

Zygmunt Lubkowski, an earthquake analyst for the engineering firm Arup, is concerned at the lack of data. "Earthquakes occur on timescales of thousands to millions of years. From just 10 years of earthquake data it is hard to tell if the extra earthquakes are just noise in the signal or due to the building."

Many engineers and scientists are more perturbed about the impact of other types of construction. "It is well known that man can induce earthquakes from things like mining, building reservoirs and extracting oil and gas, where a large load acts over a large area," says Dr Lubkowski.

One of the most convincing examples is the Koyna Dam earthquake, which occurred in 1967. More than 120 people died and many more were injured when a magnitude 6.5 earthquake shook the ground around the recently constructed dam in Maharashtra state, India.

It is thought that the huge weight of water changed the stresses in the ground. Closer to home, the magnitude 5 earthquake in May 2001 in the North Sea is thought to have been caused by a release in pressure from oil and gas extraction.

In 1967, mountains of waste that had been injected into the Rocky Mountains set off a magnitude 5.5 earthquake under Denver in Colorado. A similar earthquake under a nuclear waste store would be disastrous.

Meanwhile, the idea of carbon sequestration - reducing global warming by locking up carbon dioxide in holes under- ground, will be pointless if earthquakes let all the carbon dioxide escape. "Huge amounts of fluid are going to be put in large cavities and earthquakes are a real concern," says Leonardo Seeber, a geologist from the Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory in New York. "I am less worried about nuclear waste as it is more likely to be put in a small tunnels rather than huge cavities," he adds.

Compared with dams and underground waste deposits, skyscrapers such as Taipei 101 are mere pinpricks on the Earth's surface. "It is a point load which is probably going to be insignificant at depth," says Dr Seeber.

[ballbreaker]

Skyscraper that may cause earthquakes

Saw a program on this theory and engineers that constructed 101 said weight of soil removed for foundation construction and weight of building were about equal.

[hhgz]

I'm surprised that the conservatives in the US haven't blamed President Obama.

[kurnell]

Well I'm about to lay a big one very shortly so, having read the above, maybe I should do it in 2 parts. Don't want to cause a quake in Bangkok.

[mahtin]

"In the past, people never thought that human activity could have such a big impact, but it can," said Christian Klose, a geohazards researcher at Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory.

It turns out, actually, that the human production of earthquakes is hardly supervillain-worthy. It's downright commonplace: Klose estimates that 25 percent of Britain's recorded seismic events were caused by people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ress=115x153133

[bkkjames]

"In the past, people never thought that human activity could have such a big impact, but it can," said Christian Klose, a geohazards researcher at Columbia's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory.

It turns out, actually, that the human production of earthquakes is hardly supervillain-worthy. It's downright commonplace: Klose estimates that 25 percent of Britain's recorded seismic events were caused by people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discu...ress=115x153133

And to think we give these people like this grant money from our tax dollars to tell us this.

[thaihome]

Unfortunately this sort of stuff is getting very commonplace all over world. We have had numerous cases of people saying this in threads here on TV. Somehow it has become an accepted fact that mankind, and capitalism and globalization in particular, is somehow causing more hurricanes/typhoons, earthquakes, volcanoes and all the other calamities that have plague the world since time begin.

TH

[mogoso]

I'm surprised that the conservatives in the US haven't blamed President Obama.

As it the greenies yelling manmade earthquakes, it'd be the obama complaining that the conservatives caused it.

Poor obama didn't get the olympics for chitown. Which is ok as I listened to the PM of Japan explain that they wanted the games because it'd probably be the last games due to global warming. Which got me to thinking, if global warming were going to shutdown the olympic games why not all sporting events. Think of the waste of energy for all people attending all sporting events. No more football cricket baseball basketball darts whatever. No teams to travel unless they went by bicycle or foot. All matches would be local, very local. But think of the energy to be saved. No hoolies taking trains over to the continent proper, no NY Yankees playing The Angels. But so much pollution saved. Yes thats what the greenies should do shut down all sports, but lets not stopped there. what about music concerts, plays, political conventions,, trips to the zoo, museum, national forest etc. If we extrapolate the cost of fuel saved, pollution reduction, what would that amount to. Its all a slippery slope.

[Thongkorn]

don't be silly every one I know the answer. China had military parade, and every one in China was stamping there feet together mystery solved,

[whichschool]

Forgive my ignorance if im wrong but didnt these recent earthquakes happen at sea or near the shore.

And forgive me for being rude but didnt these braindead fukwits at the BKKpost have basic geography lessons at school about tectonic plates.

Im hoping the UK media and lib/lab/con govt. dont get hold of this story as i fear a earthquake tax will be just around the corner.

[jackr]

Compared with dams and underground waste deposits, skyscrapers such as Taipei 101 are mere pinpricks on the Earth's surface. "It is a point load which is probably going to be insignificant at depth," says Dr Seeber.

Exactly. That a mere building, no matter how massive, would cause the slippage of trillions of tons of tectonic is, quite frankly, complete <deleted>. Haven't these airheads got anything better to do than spread sensationalist rubbish like this?

[mogoso]

In reality more voices are speaking and being heard. Climate change is just going to be a tax, a very expensive tax on unwitting well meaning useful tools and the growing minority that are being to understand the ruse being foisted on them.

Its because of the growing awareness that science has been manipulated to fit their lies that desperation is beginning to cause a speed up of their agenda. A deluge worldwide of misinformation and lies awaits us.

Like everything the obama does it becomes an emergency and a bill needs to be passed now without a proper and fair debate, more gov'ts will emulate him. Tax is power, and all politicos seek more power rather than less. Ever seen a gov't press for more freedom.

[teatree]

In reality more voices are speaking and being heard. Climate change is just going to be a tax, a very expensive tax on unwitting well meaning useful tools and the growing minority that are being to understand the ruse being foisted on them.

Its because of the growing awareness that science has been manipulated to fit their lies that desperation is beginning to cause a speed up of their agenda. A deluge worldwide of misinformation and lies awaits us.

Like everything the obama does it becomes an emergency and a bill needs to be passed now without a proper and fair debate, more gov'ts will emulate him. Tax is power, and all politicos seek more power rather than less. Ever seen a gov't press for more freedom.

I agree, although I would say that in addition to tax there will also be 'Eco feudalism' where our lives will be micro-managed - we will be told how much energy we can use, how we can travel and what we must eat.

How much longer will it be before our air-con units will start being remotely turned down in order to 'save the Earth'?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/11control.html

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

it's the new green religion of self guilt. All bad things that happen on earth are because of us humans. In previous religions natural disasters were because we angered the gods or committed certain sins. Throw a few more virgins into the fire you heathens. Now its because we use petroleum and coal etc. Same old theme with new villians.

[cyb]

Skyscraper that may cause earthquakes

Saw a program on this theory and engineers that constructed 101 said weight of soil removed for foundation construction and weight of building were about equal.

I find that hard to believe.

One cubic metre of concrete weighs considerable more than one cubic metere of soil, Due to density of the product.

Having said that i also find it hard to believe a building can contibute to earth quakes, The foundations would have to be very close to the earths crust or fault line.

Edited October 3, 2009 by cyb

[Ulysses G.]

I'm surprised that the conservatives in the US haven't blamed President Obama.

The liberals already pinned it on George W. Bush.

[RubbaJohnny]

Oddly enough it was revealed in the Bumcock past theya re produced in a small industrail unti at San kamphaeng Muang C mai

Disguised as an Indian earing factory they'll knock off any item .

Fake PMs phoney Utube false TITs

Not in phone book but a disecreet sign in Chinese say

Fake U Engineering

big lucky lottery/telecomms fidles a speciality

Director Koon Ample Airwave

[BusyB]

Yes folks the Editorial in todays Bangkok Post says it is due to a lack of commitment to green policies that climate change has now caused the recent earthquakes. Thaivisa now no longer allows members to even quote a few words from a Bangkok post article so I post only the link. I hope links are permitted?

Interesting topic. 

It seems human activity can cause earthquakes, and in some cases is even intended to. In particular with geothermal energy, where masses of high pressure water are pumped down into rock layers. Normally there aren’t enough faults in granite to allow enough circulation of heater water to be worthwhile. So high pressure water is first pumped in to alter the loads in the strata, which in turn causes minor quakes as the rocks crack under the stress and new conduits are opened up. The rock has to be under some sort of tension for this to work in the first place. However close to Basle (Alpine tectonic features) this has apparently resulted in earthquakes of over 3.4Richter. Work has been stopped for now whilst they investigate. Previously 1R was the norm there and even then very rarely (1R is about 1/10k or whatever of 3 and a halfR – it’s a logarithmic scale). A similar result was achieved close to Berlin, but with only micro-quakes resulting. The engineers say the whole area around Berlin is porous sandstone which is more flexible than granite. It can also let more water travel through, so only minor breaking up is required.

The 2008 Sechuan quake (60,000 dead) may well have been caused by the flooding of a massive new dam in the area, which is thought to have altered rock tensions and structures so gravely that it triggered a 7.9R shock. The work on that theory is currently under peer review and expected to be published shortly. 

(Don’t ask me for links, don’t have them, but the article I read this in this morning is as reliable a source + publication as most – if you can read German goto tagesspiegel.de : enter GFZ in the site search window).

Wish I was in Thailand ...

[mogoso]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/11control.html[/url]

We have our spanking brand new "smart meter" that allows our power company control remotely. Ah it took a while for 1984 to get here, but with our present gov't and its mindset and complete control over the gov't I fear its here.

The good thing is its only till next year when we remove ourselves permanently from their choking grasp and settle into our little home in the mountains outside Chiang Mai.

[clinique]

abiut the Aussie guy and the CIA causing earthquakes..

Funny tho isnt it, how these earthquakes keep happening off Indonesia,,, the worls biggest Muslim nation...

Man can make it rain by dropping stuff in the clouds....(and we used to think the native Americans were crazy)

He can cause epidemics by "testing" stuff in Africa which then mutates...... ( a fact..)

Is it too far a stretch,,, that someone with huge power looking for revenge/control (??) might, just might, have the know how and desire ??

Yeh, silly me !

[cashill]

Maybe to many B.G. banging same time ?

[BNZ]

it's it's Osama Bin... ohsorryhe'sdead...

...it's The President of Iran. He LOOKS guilty !

He's got a secret earthquake provocateur.