Uk Or Thailand ?

[5ky]

Considering the market conditions in both countries are pretty dire, where would you buy real estate: UK or Thailand ??

[PattayaParent]

Whichever one you're going to be living in.

[wordchild]

I dont like condos anywhere ,but esp in Thailand , as long term assets. If you want or need to live in a condo you are better off renting ,in my opinion. If I had to own a property I would always want to own a house with the land or at least a share of the freehold in a very limited scale developement (say in a converted house).

I dont particularly like the residential property market in either country in the short to medium term, i think there will be better opportunities in three or four years time.

Though there are many things I dont like about my "old" country, as a non -Thai ,I would always prefer to buy in the UK because I CAN own land there which I cant here. Also in the long-term the UK has a much tougher planning and enviromental regime which gets enforced. There are other factors which would favour Thailand but on balance over the long-term I would favour the UK.

Edited October 30, 2009 by wordchild

[LennyW]

Are you looking for somewhere to stay/live, or as an investment?

If it is to Stay / Live then i would say definately Thaialnd,

For investment i would say 50/50, both could be OK if you land the right bargain.

[Lannatyne]

Considering the market conditions in both countries are pretty dire, where would you buy real estate: UK or Thailand ??

No contest! Good reply from LennyW.....

For an investment, and the necessary ability to easily realise sale proceeds : the UK

Purely, for a home to live in : Thailand, but only the areas where there is 'foreign demand'. It is only foreigners that drive the market in Thailand.

[RAZZELL]

Purely, for a home to live in : Thailand, but only the areas where there is 'foreign demand'. It is only foreigners that drive the market in Thailand.

Really? Where do all the Thai's live then?

RAZZ

[BlueSmurf]

Simple for me..Keep your assets in the UK.Rent in Thailand...Get a rental income from the Uk.Never sell then its your pension as well..Less risks on the t-lak front asa well..You can move around and not have to wait to sell to move around THAILAND. I have known Farangs make a lot of money on the property front but have had the money in land or property with their \Thai wifes for a long time.Also I have seen quite a few go down the pan as well.If you can afford to loose it then spend it here if not then DO NOT!

[seaeagle]

Purely, for a home to live in : Thailand, but only the areas where there is 'foreign demand'. It is only foreigners that drive the market in Thailand.

Really? Where do all the Thai's live then?

RAZZ

Silly reply, RAZZELL.

There is only serious price appreciation, and an active sale / purchase market, in the those areas where foreigners are the main players. Phuket, Hua Hin, Samui, Pattaya etc. (Bangkok, being the capital, has it's own property pricing factors)

Outside these areas, prices are as flat as a fart, there are few buyers and sellers, so no 'market' to drive prices. In fact, houses here often depreciate in price, rather than appreciate. Reason being that if you ever want to sell you have to discount so much that it is cheaper for someone to buy yours, than to build their own on the neighbouring field.

[RAZZELL]

Purely, for a home to live in : Thailand, but only the areas where there is 'foreign demand'. It is only foreigners that drive the market in Thailand.

Really? Where do all the Thai's live then?

RAZZ

Silly reply, RAZZELL.

There is only serious price appreciation, and an active sale / purchase market, in the those areas where foreigners are the main players. Phuket, Hua Hin, Samui, Pattaya etc. (Bangkok, being the capital, has it's own property pricing factors)

Outside these areas, prices are as flat as a fart, there are few buyers and sellers, so no 'market' to drive prices. In fact, houses here often depreciate in price, rather than appreciate. Reason being that if you ever want to sell you have to discount so much that it is cheaper for someone to buy yours, than to build their own on the neighbouring field.

I beg to differ

Who are the 51% of Thai buyers of multi-million baht condos? These don't appreciate? No thai "flippers"???...I suggest you look at some of the Thai property websites.

Of course there are "farang ghettos" in the places you mentioned, but if you think they "drive" the entire property market in Thailand you're mistaken.

The OP asked about the Thai property market, not the "farang-targetted" one.

Finally, most Thai's with a high net worth won't even sell property...they just acquire more

RAZZ

Edited October 31, 2009 by RAZZELL

[MJo]

Spot on Razz.

I may add that lately the property companies have been reporting that foreigner market is still dead but Thai's are buying and selling as usual.

[neverdie]

Not Thailand.

[PattayaParent]

Whichever one you're going to be living in.

I's quite simple to me.

If you're going to live in UK, why own a property in Outer Mongolia?

Or if you're going to live in Thailand, why own a proprerty in UK?

[Bemused]

What I was told when I was doing economics at university is that your attitude to risk should depend on how much money you have and what age you are.

The younger you are the more risks you can take - if it goes wrong you have more opportunity to rebuild your financial position before you stop working. Similarly the more cash you have the more risks you can afford to take simply because you have more cash to play with before you have none.

Buying in Thailand is risky, but if you buy in the UK property values may stagnate or drop over the medium term but the land titles are 100% safe (if your solicitor has done their job properly). There is no one size fits all advice on whether Thai property is the 'right' type of asset to buy, it depends on who you are.

If you are nearing the end of your working life, and you don't have other assets, then the Thai property market presents too much risk for you as an investment strategy.

Edited October 31, 2009 by Bemused

[GuestHouse]

Just imagine for a moment you went to speak to the bank manager about opening an account at his bank and he told you.

Well yes we'll gladly take all your money, but you can't really have an account in your own name (unless you share a group account with lots of other people) - and by the way, that's how the rules stand at the moment but the government are always looking at these things and tend to change the rules from time to time.

OK you might make money in the Thai property market, a few people have indeed done just that. But my guess is that the aggregate figure for all foreigners with money in the Thai property market is somewhere on the red side of zero.

And when you loose, you loose the lot.

[Lannatyne]

Purely, for a home to live in : Thailand, but only the areas where there is 'foreign demand'. It is only foreigners that drive the market in Thailand.

Really? Where do all the Thai's live then?

RAZZ

Silly reply, RAZZELL.

There is only serious price appreciation, and an active sale / purchase market, in the those areas where foreigners are the main players. Phuket, Hua Hin, Samui, Pattaya etc. (Bangkok, being the capital, has it's own property pricing factors)

Outside these areas, prices are as flat as a fart, there are few buyers and sellers, so no 'market' to drive prices. In fact, houses here often depreciate in price, rather than appreciate. Reason being that if you ever want to sell you have to discount so much that it is cheaper for someone to buy yours, than to build their own on the neighbouring field.

I beg to differ

Who are the 51% of Thai buyers of multi-million baht condos? These don't appreciate? No thai "flippers"???...I suggest you look at some of the Thai property websites.

Of course there are "farang ghettos" in the places you mentioned, but if you think they "drive" the entire property market in Thailand you're mistaken.

The OP asked about the Thai property market, not the "farang-targetted" one.

Finally, most Thai's with a high net worth won't even sell property...they just acquire more

RAZZ

But wasn't the poster saying that property in the "farang ghettos" (what an awful description you've used!) are the only ones to consider in order to make money?

Personally, I've never seen any multi-million baht condos in Lampang, Ranong, Pakchong, Udon etc. But, I have seen them.......oh, in the "ghettos"!

That's me done for the day. I'm off for a cycle around my ghetto, read the paper beside the ghetto's local beach, have a few lengths in my private ghetto swimming pool, then go for Sunday Brunch at The Ghetto Resort and Spa Hotel.

[GuestHouse]

That you personally do not like references to the term 'Ghetto' does not detract from the accuracy of using the term.

A house/condo/apartment surrounded by other homes (almost all occupied by foreigners) makes it a Ghetto, culturally isolated and segregated from the local population.

Nor does the fact that the home is beautiful have anything to do with it being in or not in a Ghetto.

Gated communities and security to keep the locals out.... No thanks.

Private Ghetto swimming pool..... Now you're getting it.

(And if there is any doubt..... Spanish sounding development names 'Grande Sole' etc in Thailand....... Read 'Ghetto'.

[chiang mai]

Whichever one you're going to be living in.

I's quite simple to me.

If you're going to live in UK, why own a property in Outer Mongolia?

Or if you're going to live in Thailand, why own a proprerty in UK?

Why does someone have to live in just one place, why not split the money you have for real estate into two and buy accordingly based on where you are likely to spend most of your time, longer term.

[ThaiPauly]

I own one property in the Uk which I rent out.

My Wife owns our house here.

I recently looked at options for investment, buying here and renting or in the UK and renting.

Buying in the UK is safer , but buying in Thailand is more profitable. Condos in CM sell for between 1.3-1.5m and will realise 10,000 Baht a month rent.....I did quite a lot of research and found that condos in a particular location to let quite quickly.

A 10m baht house in the UK will let for 44,000 baht, but then owning more than one property having already used up my tax allowences from the first property means that I would have to pay tax in the UK (around 82,000 baht a year) plus hefty management charges which would bring that 44,000 down to around 36,000.

Ergo an investment of 4 condos at a total price of say 6m will bring in 40,000 a month, and my Wife could deal with all the management of them.

However as I said, I am not keen to own so much real estate in LOS, which is why the UK is a safer, but not as profitable investment.

Problem is I don't really want to tie up any more cash here as nobody knows what the future holds and how easy it would be if I wanted to repatriate the money, selling 4 condos would take some time as well.

In the end I decided on neither option.

[chiang mai]

I own one property in the Uk which I rent out.

My Wife owns our house here.

I recently looked at options for investment, buying here and renting or in the UK and renting.

Buying in the UK is safer , but buying in Thailand is more profitable. Condos in CM sell for between 1.3-1.5m and will realise 10,000 Baht a month rent.....I did quite a lot of research and found that condos in a particular location to let quite quickly.

A 10m baht house in the UK will let for 44,000 baht, but then owning more than one property having already used up my tax allowences from the first property means that I would have to pay tax in the UK (around 82,000 baht a year) plus hefty management charges which would bring that 44,000 down to around 36,000.

Ergo an investment of 4 condos at a total price of say 6m will bring in 40,000 a month, and my Wife could deal with all the management of them.

However as I said, I am not keen to own so much real estate in LOS, which is why the UK is a safer, but not as profitable investment.

Problem is I don't really want to tie up any more cash here as nobody knows what the future holds and how easy it would be if I wanted to repatriate the money, selling 4 condos would take some time as well.

In the end I decided on neither option.

Kindred spirits in this respect!

[RAZZELL]

But wasn't the poster saying that property in the "farang ghettos" (what an awful description you've used!) are the only ones to consider in order to make money?

I suggest you read the OP again

Considering the market conditions in both countries are pretty dire, where would you buy real estate: UK or Thailand ??

A definition of "ghetto":

"A district where members of one ethnic, religious, or cultural group are congregated, usually voluntarily."

"You may not like my saying it... But you can't deny it"....Malcolm X

RAZZ

Edited November 1, 2009 by RAZZELL

[Boater]

i would buy in central london / manchester or london, considering the THB against the pound, if you where investing in london with THB you get better value for money, also most central london pads are about the same price as BKK !

[eddiemonster]

I own one property in the Uk which I rent out.

My Wife owns our house here.

I recently looked at options for investment, buying here and renting or in the UK and renting.

Buying in the UK is safer , but buying in Thailand is more profitable. Condos in CM sell for between 1.3-1.5m and will realise 10,000 Baht a month rent.....I did quite a lot of research and found that condos in a particular location to let quite quickly.

A 10m baht house in the UK will let for 44,000 baht, but then owning more than one property having already used up my tax allowences from the first property means that I would have to pay tax in the UK (around 82,000 baht a year) plus hefty management charges which would bring that 44,000 down to around 36,000.

Ergo an investment of 4 condos at a total price of say 6m will bring in 40,000 a month, and my Wife could deal with all the management of them.

However as I said, I am not keen to own so much real estate in LOS, which is why the UK is a safer, but not as profitable investment.

Problem is I don't really want to tie up any more cash here as nobody knows what the future holds and how easy it would be if I wanted to repatriate the money, selling 4 condos would take some time as well.

In the end I decided on neither option.

With respect, can I ask why you decided on neither?

[chiang mai]

ThaiPauly will no doubt give you his answer but here's mine also, I suspect we're not going to be far apart:

UK - the UK property market still has further to fall, the mini boom of the past few months is now starting to fade and there are still very few properties available to buy - going into the winter season this will likely not get any better. Thinking ahead to Spring of next year: with unemployment continuing to rise and banks still failing to lend at the desired level, combined with an economy that is in serious trouble and an election (and budget/services cuts) due there is nopt going to be too much around by way of consumer confidence - markets are also expecting UK interest rates to rise next year so that will compound the problem further. No, unless you can buy now at a very steep discount it's likely not to be a profitable purchase.

Thailand: The Thai housing market continues to be constrained and prices are falling in some areas and I'm not sure where this will end. Political uncertainty, ill health issues and reduced global demand all combine to make the outlook uncertain. For example, I looked at buying a house around three years ago and the price was 5.6 million. Today that three year old house is on the market for 4.5 million and the new tract being marketed by the same company is selling at between 2.7 and 3.5 million.

So, buying property in either country at this point in time is highly speculative and uncertain in terms of likely outcome, the unwelcome addition of inflation into the equation in the course of the next year means that staying in cash for the time being is not a totally bad idea.

[pkrv]

I note the OP has not come back to the thread he started.

IMO this is indeed all tricky stuff it does depend on what you wish to achieve. I assume his cash/assets are in GBP - not a good place to start from with regard to NEW THB investments (from my perspective my existing THB investments are in life/home)

Getting rich quick from a UK perspective using GBP as your ammunition against another currency is probably a bit like having a stone throwing match from the bottom of a gravity well.

BTW astute Thais buy the Farang quota in the condominium sector - things are not quite what they seem on the ghetto front, at least in certain sectors, and these sectors are not all the same BTW.

Edited November 3, 2009 by pkrv

[RAZZELL]

BTW astute Thais buy the Farang quota in the condominium sector - things are not quite what they seem on the ghetto front, at least in certain sectors, and these sectors are not all the same BTW.

I didn't know this could be done. I just thought it was a simple 51%-50% split and when the "farang 50%" was sold that was it.

But are you saying (as an example), that in a popular development, all even numbers are designated "farang". Then if a Thai buyer could then buy an "even" number, then when the development is "sold out" he could sell it???

How do the companies assign what is the "farang" percentage and what isn't? Are certain units designated?

RAZZ

Edited November 4, 2009 by RAZZELL

[PattayaParent]

BTW astute Thais buy the Farang quota in the condominium sector - things are not quite what they seem on the ghetto front, at least in certain sectors, and these sectors are not all the same BTW.

I didn't know this could be done. I just thought it was a simple 51%-50% split and when the "farang 50%" was sold that was it.

But are you saying (as an example), that in a popular development, all even numbers are designated "farang". Then if a Thai buyer could then buy an "even" number, then when the development is "sold out" he could sell it???

How do the companies assign what is the "farang" percentage and what isn't? Are certain units designated?

RAZZ

I think what he means is simply that Thais are buying more than 51% of the condos.

The developer does not have to stop sales to Thais when the 51% Thai ownership is acheived but he DOES have to stop sales to Farangs when the 49% foreign quota is reached.

[pkrv]

Just to clarify, Considering the Condo in its entirety.

Thai Quota is 51% of the saleable space (not quite units as these differ in size)

Farang Quota is 49% of the saleable space (not quite units again these differ in size)

This is managed by juristic.

All a Thai needs to do to buy into the Farang Quota is to bring in the funds from outside of Thailand.

This has the advantage that they can then on sell/flip to Farangs. My guess is that the unit would revert to Thai Quota if sold to a Thai and the funds did not come from outside of Thailand. However if the funds did come from outside of Thailand the unit would/could remain Farang Quota.

In any case if the unit reverted back to Thai Quota it would then simply go back into the available pool and another similar sized unit could then be sold as Farang Quota.

IMO It does not make sense for a Thai to relinquish the Farang Quota it just makes another unit more valuable.

You can see from this poll that three or four Thais have voted but there is only one vote for buying in the Thai Quota.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Purchasing-C...um-t306609.html

Edited November 4, 2009 by pkrv

[marshbags]

Easy one for me.

Buy in the U.K. and rent in Thailand.

marshbags

[pkrv]

Easy one for me.

Buy in the U.K. and rent in Thailand.

marshbags

For the moment and from a UK GBP perspective I agree. However I do own a condo in Bangkok and this is a critical component of my long term plans. IMO the time is not right to shift large funds (for any reason) to Thailand - it is a wait and see game for me.

[GuestHouse]

IMO the time is not right to shift large funds (for any reason) to Thailand - it is a wait and see game for me.

Very wise.

NOBODY knows how things might change in the not too distant future.