Safe For A Woman Who Will Be Alone Half The Month?

[LivinLOS]

alarmist[/b]....negative...sorry about your break in but REALLY..........Thai females live in mild paranoia????????? PLEASE............

Well thats how it seems to me.. As I say mates wives refused to move into nice detached homes due to security, wont take a MB taxi after dark, now and previous wives dont really like leaving the house after dark, But I would say thats possibly within reason, my best mates wife, this year her sister was (as best anyone can work out) grabbed while walking along the road, gang raped, and thrown in the rice paddy to die. Police said they were going to do swabs on her fingernails etc but nothing ever came of it (no one paying the police to do their job I guess). I know a couple of TG's who have been raped in their lives, cant say any of my western female friends had similar horrors in their past.

Phuket has a veneer of westernisation and people make assumptions on how it looks, but Thailand is a developing country, with all that goes with it.. Life is cheap, people murder more easily (the two collared yesterday did it for a couple baht gold and 4000 baht split 4 ways) etc etc.

Again these are not reasons to live in fear or not to be here, but they are valid things that people should be aware of IMO. Being aware of them means your less likely to suffer them.

[thefalang]

alarmist....negative...sorry about your break in but REALLY..........Thai females live in mild paranoia????????? PLEASE............

I agree with "LivinLOS". The situation he has related is based on actual events. To dismiss LivinLOS as "negative" or "alarmist" indicates that "rawaireddragon" is in a serious state of denial and/or is not well-informed.

Sure, news of this nature is "negative", but it is reality. The iron grates on windows, "negative" news and other security measures discussed in this thread are all "life in Phuket". Such measures (and news) reminds me of the situation in some of the roughest ghettos around the world, not a so-called "safe" tourist destination.

[melbat]

I used to think that Land and House was fairly secure but friends who live there tell me that there has been a significant increase in burglaries there during the past six months with entire houses being emptied at one go. The problem apparently has become so severe on the side that borders the temple that L & H has taken steps to increase the height of the perimeter wall along this border to eight feet.

Well I don't know who your friends are but I have lived in Land & House for nearly 7 years and never heard of 1 burglary anywhere on Land & House. I find the security here excellent. I'm sure I would have heard from neighbours if there had been any problems. I would recommend anyone to live here with the beautiful clubhouse and well laid out development. My only complaint would be noisy dogs sometimes but even then never at night time. We have security patrols every night and I'm shocked to hear what your friends are saying and cant belive that entire homes can be emptied without someone noticing. They would need a big lorry to empty a house and the only way in or out is passed security... so forgive me but I find that hard to belive.. so would anyone else living here.

[katabeachbum]

I have owned a house in L & H since 2005. I v never seen or heard of anyone being burglared. I know from Chalong Police some burglarys have taken place, and they have been organised with securityguards targeting farang houses without residents. I consider it one of the safest places in Phuket. A bit boring though

[LivinLOS]

I v never seen or heard of anyone being burglared.

I know from Chalong Police some burglarys have taken place

So which is it ??

[chiang mai]

If anyone claims to have lived in L & H for more than a year and not heard of burglaries in the complex they are either living their life as a hermit or they are being seriously economical with the truth!

[rawaireddragon]

I agree with "LivinLOS". The situation he has related is based on actual events. To dismiss LivinLOS as "negative" or "alarmist" indicates that "rawaireddragon" is in a serious state of denial and/or is not well-informed.

Sure, news of this nature is "negative", but it is reality. The iron grates on windows, "negative" news and other security measures discussed in this thread are all "life in Phuket". Such measures (and news) reminds me of the situation in some of the roughest ghettos around the world, not a so-called "safe" tourist destination.

ACTUAL EVENTS??????? when and where...please provide evidence..negative and bu*ls*it are very different things and this is not life in Phuket...

8 years living here.2 in Isaan...20 thai staff...3 businesses.....ill informed..??????.....state of denial....???????????.This is a debate we have all had tonite in the bar...you have nothing beter to do than sit in an ivory tower pontificating about how we live in a savage and hostile environment.....my staff..my customers and myself all disagree with passion...phuket is ghetto??????...I have never heard so much defeatist alarmist rubbish in my life...GO HOME...all you are doing is scaring off the last few live tourists we are likely to see this year...OR MAYBE THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.????? and Livinlos those rape events you speak off were in Phuket???????????? or maybe on the Cambodian borders or nearby.

[HDRIDER]

ACTUAL EVENTS??????? when and where...please provide evidence..negative and bu*ls*it are very different things and this is not life in Phuket...

8 years living here.2 in Isaan...20 thai staff...3 businesses.....ill informed..??????.....state of denial....???????????.This is a debate we have all had tonite in the bar...you have nothing beter to do than sit in an ivory tower pontificating about how we live in a savage and hostile environment.....my staff..my customers and myself all disagree with passion...phuket is ghetto??????...I have never heard so much defeatist alarmist rubbish in my life...GO HOME...all you are doing is scaring off the last few live tourists we are likely to see this year...OR MAYBE THAT IS WHAT YOU WANT.????? and Livinlos those rape events you speak off were in Phuket???????????? or maybe on the Cambodian borders or nearby.

Hi

Or could it be you,, don't want to admit what's going on because you relay on tourist???? I know for sure that some of my friends there relay on tourist they say the same thing,,, oohhh no its not getting worse, but it is...

[thefalang]

If anyone claims to have lived in L & H for more than a year and not heard of burglaries in the complex they are either living their life as a hermit or they are being seriously economical with the truth!

I agree with "chiangmai", he must be living in a bubble! I have no personal experience with Land & Home but crime there must be similar to what you find in the general area.

I can't keep count of the number of people I know who have been burglared, many of which were home when the burglar entered their home. Domestic crime (theft from employees, etc) is yet another matter and occurs frequently.

Over the past 15-yrs, I know westerners who have been the victim of attempted rapes, shot, stabbed, killed on the roads(many dozens), beaten with clubs, burned to death, robbed on the street, etc, etc. I know several Thais who have shot and murdered a number of people.

In my home country, I don't know anyone who's experienced any of these situations and/or committed these crimes, other than an infrequent traffic accident. I keep hearing vague statements such as "the chances of it happening here are no greater or no less than many other places, depends on which cities you compare them to" with nothing to substantiate such a claim. I maintain that crime/violence in Thailand (even more so in Phuket) is extremely high and the situation will not be remedied until there's an acknowledgement that the problem exists. The statistics uphold my claims.

I'm beginning to wonder if some of the people in these forums actually live in Phuket.

[thefalang]

I happen to know one of the woman of the attempted rapes and you're doing her a real disservice by dispelling what actually happened.

Perhaps you're the one who should "go home" because you're the one who's biased with possible alterior motives, along with your "20 Thai staff", who's income most likely depends on the how foreigners perceive certain possible dangers here in Phuket. If you're running a business (or an employee), it only enhances your situation (and pocketbook) to downplay information that could be construed as negative by a foreigner.

I personally have more to lose than gain from any downturn in the Thai economy & it would be beneficial to myself to say what a safe, crime-free place this is, contrary to my belief otherwise. I recommend that you avoid those "debates in the bar" and think rationally instead of having a "knee-jerk" reaction relative to preserving your income flow.

[LivinLOS]

ACTUAL EVENTS??????? when and where...please provide evidence..negative and bu@ls@it are very different things and this is not life in Phuket...

Lets not forget, life is cheap here, and its often easier to get rid of a witness than risk being caught, look at the old Thai woman killed on the secure moobaan by bike punks not long ago, the dead farang in his home at tesco lotus, the throat cut nanny etc. To think this isnt the case is to deny reality IMO.

OK so lets recap..

1 http://www.phuketgazette.net/dailynews/index.asp?Id=7113

2 http://www.phuketgazette.net/dailynews/index.asp?Id=7364

3 http://www.phuketgazette.net/dailynews/index.asp?Id=5783 (I forgot they killed the 2 year old baby also !!)

Ok so you still calling me a liar ?? I am afraid that Thai women getting kicked off their bikes is too common and low key to make the papers. My mates sister in law rape and murder didnt happen on phuket no, couple hours outside bangkok, that doesnt change my point about in Thailand life is cheap tho. Its often easer to kill than leave a witness (like the LB killer this week, like the nanny killer I link above, etc).

[LivinLOS]

Domestic crime (theft from employees, etc) is yet another matter and occurs frequently.

Funny you should mention that.. Yesterday a bar I frequent just discovered one of their LONG TERM well paid staff, who they have continually helped, lent money to, employed for years, etc.. Decided to rob and run, for a couple months salary !! This is someone you really would have thought of as a friend as much as an employee.

I have been robbed twice one time the got 50 baht weight of gold (not mine) both times I am 99% sure it was workmen the landlord had put into the house to work on it.

In my home country, I don't know anyone who's experienced any of these situations and/or committed these crimes, other than an infrequent traffic accident. I keep hearing vague statements such as "the chances of it happening here are no greater or no less than many other places, depends on which cities you compare them to" with nothing to substantiate such a claim. I maintain that crime/violence in Thailand (even more so in Phuket) is extremely high and the situation will not be remedied until there's an acknowledgement that the problem exists. The statistics uphold my claims.

Well I dont think we should speak like Phuket is Kabul, or even has break in crime like N africa (tho I dont think violent crime was as bad there) but my thinking is probably different as my parents both live in leafy soft rural country villages and small towns, she often leaves the house and doesnt lock the doors, there simply isnt the violent crime there, its front page news about a missing cat, and the talk of the village for months if there was a break in. I am sure that I personally have a comparison thats different from city dwellers anywhere.

But what people miss when they speak about crime, or when they quote Thai crime stats comparing them to other places, is that as farangs, with our real or perceived wealth, we are far more likely to be the target of crime than a (perceived poor) local. It only stands to reason if your going to rob a house you rob one thats going to have something in it !! In a 'normal' community all people are equally likely to be targeted, but the influx of farang cash, and possibly the perception that we have less comeback or connections to help us, means we as non natives are the best targets. While crime overall may be only the same amounts as back in the west, we are only a small part of the population and I would argue that crime against western owned homes, as only a part of the population is far higher. I mean if 1 house in 1 estate gets broken into a year thats low crime right? but if there only 1 farang on the estate, and hes made a large nice house, with obvious electronics in it, a nice car outside etc, and its his house that gets hit each time, then crime for him is very high, even in a statistically low crime area.

[stevenl]

This is the same discussion we have been having here on the forum over and over again.

Let's say there are opposing views on this.

I have no personal experience with Land & Home but crime there must be similar to what you find in the general area.

Funny statement coming from somebody who claimed very recently here never to give any statements unless supported by statistics.

[Peterocket]

Domestic crime (theft from employees, etc) is yet another matter and occurs frequently.

Funny you should mention that.. Yesterday a bar I frequent just discovered one of their LONG TERM well paid staff, who they have continually helped, lent money to, employed for years, etc.. Decided to rob and run, for a couple months salary !! This is someone you really would have thought of as a friend as much as an employee.

I have been robbed twice one time the got 50 baht weight of gold (not mine) both times I am 99% sure it was workmen the landlord had put into the house to work on it.

In my home country, I don't know anyone who's experienced any of these situations and/or committed these crimes, other than an infrequent traffic accident. I keep hearing vague statements such as "the chances of it happening here are no greater or no less than many other places, depends on which cities you compare them to" with nothing to substantiate such a claim. I maintain that crime/violence in Thailand (even more so in Phuket) is extremely high and the situation will not be remedied until there's an acknowledgement that the problem exists. The statistics uphold my claims.

Well I dont think we should speak like Phuket is Kabul, or even has break in crime like N africa (tho I dont think violent crime was as bad there) but my thinking is probably different as my parents both live in leafy soft rural country villages and small towns, she often leaves the house and doesnt lock the doors, there simply isnt the violent crime there, its front page news about a missing cat, and the talk of the village for months if there was a break in. I am sure that I personally have a comparison thats different from city dwellers anywhere.

But what people miss when they speak about crime, or when they quote Thai crime stats comparing them to other places, is that as farangs, with our real or perceived wealth, we are far more likely to be the target of crime than a (perceived poor) local. It only stands to reason if your going to rob a house you rob one thats going to have something in it !! In a 'normal' community all people are equally likely to be targeted, but the influx of farang cash, and possibly the perception that we have less comeback or connections to help us, means we as non natives are the best targets. While crime overall may be only the same amounts as back in the west, we are only a small part of the population and I would argue that crime against western owned homes, as only a part of the population is far higher. I mean if 1 house in 1 estate gets broken into a year thats low crime right? but if there only 1 farang on the estate, and hes made a large nice house, with obvious electronics in it, a nice car outside etc, and its his house that gets hit each time, then crime for him is very high, even in a statistically low crime area.

Yes this is true I guess, for some falang crime can be percieved as higher than it actually is because they are generally the targets.

A population of aproximately 250,000 and 5 million tourists per year...makes the average population here appoximately 420,000.

That puts it on a par with the following (2008 crime figures for some random cities I selected)

St Louis, Missouri, USA population 348,197...40 murders 73 rapes and 9,736 property crimes

Atlanta, Georgia, USA popuation 497,290...26 murders 30 rapes and 7,286 property crimes

Minneaolis, Minnesota, USA population 371,240.. murders 13 murders 122 rapes 6072 property crimes

As people have said before in my opinion Phuket isnt any better or worse than most big cities/towns around the world. Ive not been here a huge amount of time but i havent seen or heard first hand of any crime. The most dangererous thing in my opinion is getting on a MB.

[thefalang]

You might be correct with respect to burglary in certain areas but the other hand, there are certain crimes whereas a foreigner might have less probability of encountering than a local. The stats that I'm referring to are not race-dependant and it's overall crime levels that are compiled.

I agree that the victims of crimes are not evenly distributed evenly over the entire population but overall levels are extremely high for many crimes. For instance, as per a UN survey a few years ago, Thailand ranked along with Columbia and So Africa regarding the number of homicides with firearms (Thailand ranked #3 in the world and experenced a per capita rate approx 6 times that of the US!).

[thefalang]

Yes this is true I guess, for some falang crime can be percieved as higher than it actually is because they are generally the targets.

A population of aproximately 250,000 and 5 million tourists per year...makes the average population here appoximately 420,000.

That puts it on a par with the following (2008 crime figures for some random cities I selected)

St Louis, Missouri, USA population 348,197...40 murders 73 rapes and 9,736 property crimes

Atlanta, Georgia, USA popuation 497,290...26 murders 30 rapes and 7,286 property crimes

Minneaolis, Minnesota, USA population 371,240.. murders 13 murders 122 rapes 6072 property crimes

As people have said before in my opinion Phuket isnt any better or worse than most big cities/towns around the world. Ive not been here a huge amount of time but i havent seen or heard first hand of any crime. The most dangererous thing in my opinion is getting on a MB.

It appears from your calcs that you've assumed that the average tourist stays 29.4 days, which is a bit long.

Besides, your methodolgy is flawed. You can't just add the number of tourists (in a time weighted average format) to a resident population and then extrapolate. It's not that easy!

Even if your calcs were meaningful (which they are not), Atlanta, Georgia - 26 murders in one year? I think you'll probably find that Phuket surpassed that number in 2-3 months this year.

[thefalang]

This is the same discussion we have been having here on the forum over and over again.

Let's say there are opposing views on this.

I have no personal experience with Land & Home but crime there must be similar to what you find in the general area.

Funny statement coming from somebody who claimed very recently here never to give any statements unless supported by statistics.

Even if I quoted statistics from the United Nations regarding Land & Home (which are unfortunately not available), you'd just dismiss them as "dodgy" anyways.

Perhaps I'll start using an Ouija board to base my opinions upon and then some of the readers could relate better.

[Peterocket]

It appears from your calcs that you've assumed that the average tourist stays 29.4 days, which is a bit long.

Besides, your methodolgy is flawed. You can't just add the number of tourists (in a time weighted average format) to a resident population and then extrapolate. It's not that easy!

Even if your calcs were meaningful (which they are not), Atlanta, Georgia - 26 murders in one year? I think you'll probably find that Phuket surpassed that number in 2-3 months this year.

My statistics are there to give a rough comparison not anything exact as like you put it "its not as easy as that".

Please enlighten me wth any stats you have such as "you think i'll probably find murders surpassed Atlanta in 2-3 months".

[katabeachbum]

I v never seen or heard of anyone being burglared.

I know from Chalong Police some burglarys have taken place

So which is it ??

Sorry, lousy english. I have not seen any burglary take place and i have not talked with anyone being burglared or anyone know someone being burglared during my 2 years of living there or 4 years owning the place.

I v had parties in my home, and guests working in Chalong Police station have informed me about burglaries and how they have been organized. They still consider L & H very safe for residents.

Many Phuket lawyers and judges choose to live in L & H because of the security. All the roads and parks are private. If a vehicle is following you when entering the gate, just report to guard you dont want this vehicle to enter, and they will be denied to entter or have to prove their right to enter (accesscard) and vehicles tabien and drivers id is registered. If you are in conflict with your builder, just leave his picture and idcardnumber at the gate and deny him access.

[katabeachbum]

If anyone claims to have lived in L & H for more than a year and not heard of burglaries in the complex they are either living their life as a hermit or they are being seriously economical with the truth!

Great accusations from patong. Thanks. I stick to facts.

[stevenl]

Even if I quoted statistics from the United Nations regarding Land & Home (which are unfortunately not available), you'd just dismiss them as "dodgy" anyways.

Perhaps I'll start using an Ouija board to base my opinions upon and then some of the readers could relate better.

If they are dodgy, yes, I'd dismiss them, but if they are reliable, I would not.

But to first say you'll only give statements if you can support hem with numbers, and after that say: I don't know a certain place, but it must be the same as elsewhere, without any numbers of elsewhere and not knowing a place makes you completely unbelievable and obviously your statements unreliable.

But I'll follow my own advice to LOS and not get into a personal and senseless discussion.

[katabeachbum]

I have no personal experience with Land & Home but crime there must be similar to what you find in the general area.

Where is Land & Home?

[thefalang]

But I'll follow my own advice to LOS and not get into a personal and senseless discussion.

This discussion is only "personal" and "senseless" to the extent of those who choose to make it so.

[LivinLOS]

Many Phuket lawyers and judges choose to live in L & H because of the security. All the roads and parks are private. If a vehicle is following you when entering the gate, just report to guard you dont want this vehicle to enter, and they will be denied to entter or have to prove their right to enter (accesscard) and vehicles tabien and drivers id is registered.

One thing I do agree is that L&H has far better than average moobaan security. And that in turn should mean break ins are less common.

A few years ago I would never have wanted to live in a gated community, as I dont like population density and suburbia.. Now with rising crime I am starting to see security as a far bigger issue.

[rawaireddragon]

I happen to know one of the woman of the attempted rapes and you're doing her a real disservice by dispelling what actually happened.

Perhaps you're the one who should "go home" because you're the one who's biased with possible alterior motives, along with your "20 Thai staff", who's income most likely depends on the how foreigners perceive certain possible dangers here in Phuket. If you're running a business (or an employee), it only enhances your situation (and pocketbook) to downplay information that could be construed as negative by a foreigner.

I personally have more to lose than gain from any downturn in the Thai economy & it would be beneficial to myself to say what a safe, crime-free place this is, contrary to my belief otherwise. I recommend that you avoid those "debates in the bar" and think rationally instead of having a "knee-jerk" reaction relative to preserving your income flow.

You are missing the point as usuall.

noone is disputing an attempted rape....nor the occasional mugging or violent assault.

The point is that this forum and in particular a VERY vocal minority are distoring the real figures and exagerating the real problems.

I am home..so where am i going..and I am not downplaying anything

These negative posts are not an ACCURATE portrayal of the facts and yes it is affecting my income..so why do I not have the right the take umbrage with you for what you are saying. This forum is read by tourists considering a vacation in Phuket and when you make comments like "ghetto" it is a complete distortion of the real dangers here and right now we need all the bodies we can get.

and thanks for you recomendation about avoiding debates in bars...I find them much more useful than the utter tripe you are serving up on this forum. You are the one with the knee jerk reaction to a very calm situation.....And to any one considering a vaction here and reading these words I sugest it is because these people want the beaches to themselves.

[Peterocket]

There are high security low density estates available, e.g 6-12 villas. I would say there's something to meet everyones needs dependent on how at risk you feel and where you live.

[thefalang]

One thing I do agree is that L&H has far better than average moobaan security. And that in turn should mean break ins are less common.

A few years ago I would never have wanted to live in a gated community, as I dont like population density and suburbia.. Now with rising crime I am starting to see security as a far bigger issue.

Yes, I agree with you completely.

After living here for many years I now realize the importance of the “safety in numbers” concept and the “circle the wagons” syndrome.

You’re much safer in a gated community.

That dream about building that beautiful, spacious house with large garden, etc compromises your security significantly and makes you too vulnerable to burglary, etc. You’re almost forced into living in a high-density and/or multiple-family development for safety, the mode of living that many foreigners come here to escape from!

[thefalang]

You are missing the point as usuall.

noone is disputing an attempted rape....nor the occasional mugging or violent assault.

The point is that this forum and in particular a VERY vocal minority are distoring the real figures and exagerating the real problems.

I am home..so where am i going..and I am not downplaying anything

These negative posts are not an ACCURATE portrayal of the facts and yes it is affecting my income..so why do I not have the right the take umbrage with you for what you are saying. This forum is read by tourists considering a vacation in Phuket and when you make comments like "ghetto" it is a complete distortion of the real dangers here and right now we need all the bodies we can get.

and thanks for you recomendation about avoiding debates in bars...I find them much more useful than the utter tripe you are serving up on this forum. You are the one with the knee jerk reaction to a very calm situation.....And to any one considering a vaction here and reading these words I sugest it is because these people want the beaches to themselves.

"Very calm situation" ...

Fine, you tell that to my friend who almost was raped several months ago, the many friends who have been burglarized & traumatized and the Japanese man who was "torched" in his car the other day.

Phuket is not a "ghetto" but exhibits many crime statistics that resemble that of a ghetto.

I feel you are too biased to comment on this issue fairly due to your "economic" situation. I suspect that many posts dispelling the crime situation in these forums are in the same category.

[katabeachbum]

In a huge gated community like L & H one advantage is the number of securityguards. At the gates and patroling on bicycles. If any incident occurs, you just blow the whistle and no need to wait for police 30 minutes. 3 guards show up within 3 minutes.

Another advantage is that all the houses are similar, not one sticking out as the rich farang to be burglared.

I chose to live like this for 2 years while developing properties, which is a rather risky business. At the same time I upgraded my private security with one more lisenced gun and a rottweiler. I now live in a mixed and more exciting community without guards. Some neighbors have been burglared, I have not. Just like back home.

[thefalang]

In a huge gated community like L & H one advantage is the number of securityguards. At the gates and patroling on bicycles. If any incident occurs, you just blow the whistle and no need to wait for police 30 minutes. 3 guards show up within 3 minutes.

Another advantage is that all the houses are similar, not one sticking out as the rich farang to be burglared.

I chose to live like this for 2 years while developing properties, which is a rather risky business. At the same time I upgraded my private security with one more lisenced gun and a rottweiler. I now live in a mixed and more exciting community without guards. Some neighbors have been burglared, I have not. Just like back home.

Sounds like you have it sorted out.

Are foreigners eligible to own a gun here and if so, under what circumstances, etc?