Need Good Lawyer In Bangkok

[Patong Bob]

Basically the story is this :

My mate, a gentleman and Scotsman, leases a guesthouse and bar in Chalong.

One night he parked his car in it's usual place outside his place which is under a streetlight. While he was sleeping a Thai girl aged 21 riding a motor bike without a helmet at 0330 rode into the back of it and was killed.

His insurance company is backing him. He had to go to Chalong Police Station where he was told the girls' family wanted 500,000. He had several conferences with the police and some sort of prosecutor and on the fifth occasion he was lodged in the cells and told he would be charged. After 7 and a half hours in the cells - usual story 40 people in a tiny cell, no proper toilet - he was released on 200,000 bail.

The RTP failed to get a blood alcohol reading( didn't bother) from the girl.

As I said, he is a gentleman, can anyone recommend a good lawyer ?

British consul in Phuket is useless, he is is trying to contact the Embassy. I take it they will be useless too.

Anyone with any ideas ?

Edited November 28, 2009 by bonobo
Removed personal reference as per ThaiVisa posting regulations.

[Samuian]

Can only recommend to get a lawyer and DON'T Panic!

This kind of thing happens, again and again!

Where did the gentleman sleep - in the car?

[OxfordWill]

Adding it to the list (its a new one for me): Park your car only where people cant drive into it drunk late at night. (would be funny if I wasnt seriously now adding this to a real list).

I wish him all the best with his situation. 

Edited November 28, 2009 by bonobo
Removed personal reference

[Daffy D]

That really sucks surly they can't get away with it?

The UK Embassy Bangkok used to supply a list of lawyers. This was not a list of "reccomended" as the Embassy could not actually recomend one, just a list of available lawyers in the differnt provinces.

Don't know if they still give out this list. Contact them to find out but insist on speaking to a "top" official to get a straight answer.

Wish you luck

[Stumbo]

Tilleke & Gibbons of Bangkok seem well connected, good English and high prices, but if in trouble don't mess around. Despite how absurd anything may seem here, take it seriously and use whatever firepower the situation calls for.

[givenall]

Can only recommend to get a lawyer and DON'T Panic!

This kind of thing happens, again and again!

Where did the gentleman sleep - in the car?

To me this has a stink to it. The police is too involve and they have conference and they ask 500k and they take him to jail and gave to pay bill to them.

[Maizefarmer]

Okay - what was he arrested and put in the cells for?

He will be charged - with what? Just what is the allegation - what has he been charged with, or what will he be charged with?

Bailed for Baht 200K - for what, why did he have to pay bail?

Was this car parked illegally - was there a solid orange/yellow line, or a No Parking @ 3:30am in the morning, or some similar sign?

I am trying to work out what he could have done wrong, and other than for been illegaly parked (which I am sure he would know - even if only after the incident, and would have shared with you by now).

I can't see what he has done wrong....... is any of the above applicable?

Edited November 28, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[Harcourt]

As usual, MaizeFarmer gets straight to the point.

What did he do that caused the girl's death?

Even if parked illegally.

He should turn the tables and demand that the family pay for the damage to his car.

[Maizefarmer]

TV (Thaivisa) has its fair share of these stories ..... and they all to often kick off thick on detail about what has happend or occured, but very thin on detail regards the legal situation - against the background of Thai law.

So-and-so was bailed - fair enough, but what were they bailed for, and/or what are the bail terms, or so-and-so was put into the cells for an amount of time, then charged - but little or not detail is shared regards the actual charge e.g. the Charge pertained to what section of the Thai legal code?

Or, in the case of RTA's (road traffic accident), the thread will kick off with some comments about the fact that the deceased's relative(s) are banging on the door with a demand for x amount of money - fair enough, but what is the demand based on (from a Thai legal persepective) - is the equivilant of reckless driving, Section x,y,z sub section blah blah balh been alleged ... and just who is making the allegation? Is it the police taking the action, or are the relatives taking the action, or over and above any police action, are relatives pursuing with their own personal claim - is it a civil or criminal claim ..... and a whole bunch of other relivant points need to be understood, without which no-one can really offer much in the way of advice or help.

What this all to often illustrates is exactly where the problem lies when ex-pats run into legal problems: a poor understanding of the actual situation one is in from a Thai law/legal point of view - and without that understanding as it applies to whatever is been claimed or alleged aginst you, one cannot hope, firstly to get much in the way of anything usefull from folk (however good intentioned comments maybe), but secondly and probably more importantly, one cannot hope to be able to defend themselves with any degree of success.

If you find yourself in one of these situations, other than keeping your mouth shut and saying the absolute min - top of your list of things to do is to get INDEPENDENT legal advise, and to make sure that you understand top to bottom what is been alleged against you, and how it ties into the Thai legal code. The quicker you get an understanding of this, the less vunerable you will feel, the better placed you will be to defend yourself, and the better placed folk will be to offer advise, as folk can now understand exactly what is been alleged.

[Bizz]

to many questions.

was he parked illegally.

does not matter how long he, if so got away with parking, if illegally parked. family may also know he is a farang, girl may be related to police.

accidents happen sadly in this case it resulted in the death of a young girl. get a good lawyer.

my condolences to her family

[Sabre]

Even a good lawyer won't be able to help very much.

Your friend needs to earnestly negotiate with the police and the family. You need some kind of negotiator, more than a lawyer. Don't assume a lawyer will be able to do this for you.

In these matters the police, in many ways, ARE the judges. Start paying, because it will only get more expensive and it may come to the point where paying is no longer an option.

Take the money your friend was going to spend on legal fees, and give it straight to the biggest cop you can find at the relevant station. A more efficient way of spending it.

That cop should the help you to get the price down, with the family.

[choppychugger]

I know of someone who actually hit a person with his car - He was in a car and the person he hit was on a motorbike with no lights - Initially the figures being thrown around were somewhere in the region of 1 million, he strung it out and held his ground. Cant remember if it went to court but I do know he ended up paying about 80,000 thb to the family.

All round its a horrible situation to be in, and sad that someone lost their life.

Your friend needs to hold his ground and gather as much evidence as possible or they shall take him for every available penny.

choppy

[Harcourt]

Even a good lawyer won't be able to help very much.

Your friend needs to earnestly negotiate with the police and the family. You need some kind of negotiator, more than a lawyer. Don't assume a lawyer will be able to do this for you.

In these matters the police, in many ways, ARE the judges. Start paying, because it will only get more expensive and it may come to the point where paying is no longer an option.

Take the money your friend was going to spend on legal fees, and give it straight to the biggest cop you can find at the relevant station. A more efficient way of spending it.

That cop should the help you to get the price down, with the family.

Are you related to the dead girl? It certainly sounds like it.

There is no fault established here in this thread, or what the chap is charged with.

In a case where a death has occurred, the Thai legal system is certainly the best option.

Question for you, Sabre: what if the chap follows your advice and then finds out that the station sergeant was a relative and just laying it on thick, and in fact the chap was not culpable at all? Do you think there would be any recourse to reclaim the money?

[Jaydillon]

I am sorry to hear what has happen,I am sure the cops will get a cut out of the final settlement fee from the dead girls family.

[mca]

Okay - what was he arrested and put in the cells for?

He will be charged - with what? Just what is the allegation - what has he been charged with, or what will he be charged with?

Bailed for Baht 200K - for what, why did he have to pay bail?

Was this car parked illegally - was there a solid orange/yellow line, or a No Parking @ 3:30am in the morning, or some similar sign?

I am trying to work out what he could have done wrong, and other than for been illegaly parked (which I am sure he would know - even if only after the incident, and would have shared with you by now).

I can't see what he has done wrong....... is any of the above applicable?

In a nutshell.

I apologize for not being able to assist the OP with his query and straying off topic but the situation presented does make for some input.

Until the full facts of the matter are known it's impossible to make a balanced opinion but there are possible scenarios. Either the OPs pal was parked illegally or was commiting some such traffic law infringement where then would then be some sort of case to answer. The same as back home where people are prosecuted for having unlit skips sitting in the road and some poor bastard piles into the back of it.

The other one (which boggles the mind and has been succinctly put by Maizefarmer) is a guy at the cop shop being put in the cells for not actually committing any offense whatsoever. The basic question before the metaphorical handcuffs are put on are "Exactly what am I being charged with?"

If I'm in that situation and the second scenario is the real thing of not actually having committed any offense whatsoever would have me spending exactly 0 seconds behind bars. It'd be a case of "Well if you can't point to the related offense to charge me with I'm terribly sorry that young girls dead but I"ll be on my way home."

The ambiguous parts about the story (regarding meetings etc) need to be clarified.

[stickman]

If you are accused in Thailand of a crime where there is the possibility of doing jail it is worth getting the best possible legal assistance.

I would not muck around. Contact Tilleke and Gibbons who are acknowledged as one of the best law firms in Thailand. They will be able to help.

[Kf6vci]

So they rushed and cremated the body - without checking for blood alcohol?1?

Surely, she was pie eyed to ride right into a parked car?!?

Would it be the same charge against him if she had driven right into the house he is renting?

They want money - so let's fleece the farang!

I would fight this tooth and nail. And as a Kraut I was helped once by the British Embassy - they are good AFAIK.

Try them, make that call for your mate!

Chris

[MartinC]

Dear Patong Bob,

Many thanks for posting the message, which has been brought to my attention by friends.

At this moment in time I am only aware of the situation you mention through your posting on this forum. Therefore, I will be completely 'useless' until I am contacted by your friend directly, or by anybody else he has given me permission to speak to about his case. Therefore, to enable me to provide assistance, please have your friend telephone me as soon as you are aware of my posting here.

My telephone number is and I am available all day to receive his call. Please be assured, I will do everything within the scope of my consular duties to assist the gentleman and pay him the due attention he deserves; which will include passing him the list of lawyers from the British Embassy in Bangkok. In the meantime, I will do my best to contact the officer in charge of this case at Chalong police station to establish the name of your friend and exactly what I will be dealing with when I meet with him.

Your continued concern and assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Martin Carpenter MBE

British Honorary Consul - Phuket

(Edited by Bonobo:  Please contact the Consul via PM to get his personal contact information.) 

Edited November 29, 2009 by bonobo

[hughben]

I remember reading of something similar happening in Taiwan. Someone crashed into a parked van under a street lamp and died. The police arrested the owner of the truck saying he had parked it illegally.

As follow ups on news reports are similar in Taiwan as in Thailand, I don't know the outcome.

[Tod Daniels]

First and foremost; TOTALLY disregard the information contained in the post I quoted below. It appears to be made by someone with little or no experience in dealing with something of this severity and/or complexity.

Even a good lawyer won't be able to help very much.

Your friend needs to earnestly negotiate with the police and the family. You need some kind of negotiator, more than a lawyer. Don't assume a lawyer will be able to do this for you.

In these matters the police, in many ways, ARE the judges. Start paying, because it will only get more expensive and it may come to the point where paying is no longer an option.

Take the money your friend was going to spend on legal fees, and give it straight to the biggest cop you can find at the relevant station. A more efficient way of spending it.

That cop should the help you to get the price down, with the family.

Second; have your friend contact Martin Carpenter MBE at the British honorary Consul in Phuket ASAP (he's put a post on here already)

Third: Follow the advice given by Maizefarmer in this post to the frickin' letter, DO NOT deviate from it.

TV (Thaivisa) has its fair share of these stories ..... and they all to often kick off thick on detail about what has happend or occured, but very thin on detail regards the legal situation - against the background of Thai law.

So-and-so was bailed - fair enough, but what were they bailed for, and/or what are the bail terms, or so-and-so was put into the cells for an amount of time, then charged - but little or not detail is shared regards the actual charge e.g. the Charge pertained to what section of the Thai legal code?

Or, in the case of RTA's (road traffic accident), the thread will kick off with some comments about the fact that the deceased's relative(s) are banging on the door with a demand for x amount of money - fair enough, but what is the demand based on (from a Thai legal persepective) - is the equivilant of reckless driving, Section x,y,z sub section blah blah balh been alleged ... and just who is making the allegation? Is it the police taking the action, or are the relatives taking the action, or over and above any police action, are relatives pursuing with their own personal claim - is it a civil or criminal claim ..... and a whole bunch of other relivant points need to be understood, without which no-one can really offer much in the way of advice or help.

What this all to often illustrates is exactly where the problem lies when ex-pats run into legal problems: a poor understanding of the actual situation one is in from a Thai law/legal point of view - and without that understanding as it applies to whatever is been claimed or alleged aginst you, one cannot hope, firstly to get much in the way of anything usefull from folk (however good intentioned comments maybe), but secondly and probably more importantly, one cannot hope to be able to defend themselves with any degree of success.

If you find yourself in one of these situations, other than keeping your mouth shut and saying the absolute min - top of your list of things to do is to get INDEPENDENT legal advise, and to make sure that you understand top to bottom what is been alleged against you, and how it ties into the Thai legal code. The quicker you get an understanding of this, the less vunerable you will feel, the better placed you will be to defend yourself, and the better placed folk will be to offer advise, as folk can now understand exactly what is been alleged.

While it may be true to some degree that having the police 'in your corner' is advantageous, it is not always the case. The advice that bribing the police would garner a better ROI than good legal representation is just plain hog-wash. Good legal representation IS critical in situations like this.

Their is a law firm called Mackenzie Smith at this website; www.macsmlaw.com

I have heard their name come up again and again as a reputable and above board firm.

(BTW: I have NO affiliation with them and offer the name out only as a possible resource for the O/P).

Good luck. ..

[LivinginKata]

Moved to Phuket Forum.

[honey2000]

If I ever got into any kind of situation like this, I'd do a runner. Assets here ?

As Larry Flynt said when asked what he'd give up to walk again... "I'd go out on the street with a tin cup"

[N47HAN]

Im Sure as a good friend "xxxx" wont mind this post.

As Bob says he is an absolute gem and wouldnt harm anybody or anything , just a great guy thats here to enjoy his life and not waste away in the uk.

From what I know this is how it goes,

The location of the vehicle .....

If your heading to Central Festival from Chalong Circle approx 1km on the left you will see a yellow sign just outside of a Thai Laundry.

He has parked his car for several years never being asked to move by any authority ( Police ) , however i think it should be pointed out that at the side of the road is a constant white line running the length of it. ( does this mean no parking , making it illegal paring ? )

As usual one evening he parks his car here and retires to bed. Around 3 am the following morning he was woken by his wife and told to go outside.

What he sees is a motorbike driven straight into the back of his motor , with blood and guts over the road .

All details were given to the police and over the last 4/5 months he has been required to attend chalong police station at the request of the police. each of these occasions nothing had really happened ( there for an hour or two waiting to be told to return ). Except this time , on this occasion he turned up as requested and the whole sorry state has unraveled.

It seems that the family are indeed pushing this with the police ( now being honest , they have lost their daughter to what they see as a falang parking illegal and because of this have lost their daughter ).

This time on his arrival he was taken to phuket town and placed in the cells for the day , and no he wasnt told what for !

His passport has been taken from him and he is i beleive due back feb 1.

Martin if you are able to help and you dont know who the person is yet please pm me and i will give you all the contact details.

To my friend MR . " Cedric Mcgublican " ill be down in 30mins for a bevvy

P.s on Second thoughts I know Jim won't mind.

His place is called Baan Kiki Martin , as described heading towards Central from Chalong circle about a km or km and half on the left you will see a yellow sign with his places name on it. Please call by and see what you do for the guy.

Thx

Edited November 29, 2009 by N47HAN

[LivinLOS]

500k.. A good lawyer could run through that.. Best to see whats actually being charged and nego down, if he was illegally parked then there may be legal grounds. Where all the 'living in Thailand is cheap' crowd right now ???

At least its not 14.5 million like this guy

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Motorcycle-A...on-t233572.html

Edited November 29, 2009 by LivinLOS

[HDRIDER]

HI

So nobody have been in touch with Martin C,, why not??? sound strange to me, he will also know a god lawyer i am sure, as livinLOS say if its 500.000 pay and walk away, this could end up beeing very expensive.

[N47HAN]

Martin is now speaking to Jim,

So thanks to him for taking the call

Hopefully things will work out now....

Lets hope so .......

[Maizefarmer]

Baan Kiki

Thanx for sharing the detail with us - my take on the situation: while we can wonder about all the issues that have been raised regards the status of the bike, and young lady e.g. was it at the time officialy a stolen bike, what was the young lady doing in Phuket, has the bike been examined i.e. were the lights on the bike working, was the tyre tread up to spec, were the brakes working as they should, was she sober (okay - she's dead sadly, but where did she work - in a bar or some similar place - have her buddies been interviewed about that evening?), did she have moped license ..... there are so many things that can be considered, but at the end of the day I still think a major point in your defense is going to come down to whether or not the car was parked legally or illegaly?

To the best of my knowledge a solid white line - normally about 1,3m - 1,5m from the side of the road, has nothing to do with parking reg's, or parking restrictions: it defines the area that is reserved for 2 wheeled vechiles e.g. mopeds, bicycles ect ...... Were you aware of this point and the relivance of the solid white line in this context?

Does this mean you were parked illegaly?

I simply don't know, and I really think your brief needs to get this point established - one way or the other - as well as weather or not it amounts to illegal parking. I have a gut feeling that a car parked here is not neccessarily parked illegaly, and if you were not parked illegaly, I really cant see where the case is going to go ultimately.

Thanx for the detail.

[Valentine]

When I saw his car on the morning after the accident I thought at the time he was going to have some problems. Although it looked bad I did not realize that someone had died. The car was parked as far off to the side of the road as possible but was in a section of Chao Fa West where the "4 lane road" narrows considerably as it does outside Promphan & elsewhere.

I hope a good compromise solution will be found.

[Yamantaka]

After my Austrian partners in a Phuket/Khao Lak dive company cheated me, and the Thai lawyer I hired to get my money back also cheated me, I found this lawyer who was smart enough to get the lawyer disbarred for life which is pretty good considering it was a farang up against a Thai from a rich family. Give him a call:

Thammanat & Associates

249/17 Soi Ladprao 122

Wangthonglang, BKK 10310

(02) 539-5156

[email protected]

[siam2007]

After my Austrian partners in a Phuket/Khao Lak dive company cheated me, and the Thai lawyer I hired to get my money back also cheated me, I found this lawyer who was smart enough to get the lawyer disbarred for life which is pretty good considering it was a farang up against a Thai from a rich family. Give him a call:

Thammanat & Associates

249/17 Soi Ladprao 122

Wangthonglang, BKK 10310

(02) 539-5156

[email protected]

sounds interesting.

but do they speak English ?