How Many Old Hippies Are There On The Cm Forum

[lannarebirth]

As Springsteen said, Dylan changed the world. The Grateful Dead didn't change their underwear.

I coud give several examples of the Grateful Dead wringing more musically out of a Dylan composition than Dylan ever did. I always considered then to be consummate musicians who could create music from a much more varied pallete than could most any other band.

[KevinHunt]

How often do they have "punk night" at the Guitarman?

This is a one-off gig with some groups coming up from Bangkok. They have a site on Facebook.

[gpdjohn]

One day back in 1969, myself and two of my closest friends walked down to the local elementry school to shoot a game of hoops. It was about 5:30 p.m and the local Little League was starting some games on a couple of diamonds across the school yard from where we were walking.

Just at the time we arrived at the basketball court we were confronted by four large construction worker types..

" What's wrong with you longhaired commie pinko hippies" one was yelling at us. The others joined in with the old "We outta cut your hair" and "Why don't you hippies just move to Russia where you belong!"

The name calling went on for a few minutes and the attemps to get us to fist fight with them continued for a few also..

What we didn't hear as we crossed the field was the playing of the US Natl anthem. Oh well.

So I guess, yes... I was a hippie. ( and a communist pinko too )

[orang37]

... snip ... but too much of a beatnik at heart to ever appreciate what followed in time.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun UG,

Actually my human had kind of mythologized the "Beats" in his head as a teenager dreaming of escaping his insane family, his "poetic soul" struggling to break-through; when he met some of them like Huncke in the Lower East Side in 1963, a lot of them were already burned out drug addicts, alcoholics, nut cases or psychopaths ... some were just psychopaths to start off with like Bukowski and Burroughs. There were the interesting poetry free-for-alls at St. Mark's in the Bowery where some of the "poets of decadence" in the Warhol orbit would show up, like Gerard Malanga. For me the "authentic" voices were the early (pre journey-to-the-east William Blake influenced) Allen Ginsberg, Ferlinghetti, Rexroth, Patchen, Snyder, and Brautigan, and, of course, Lenore Kandel's whose poetry induced immediate erections in human males.

I think that the Grateful Dead suck too, but I simply did not enjoy their style. IMHO drugs were not the culprit. The Airplane, Dylan, Hendrix, the Stones and even the Beatles were all blowing their minds on drugs and somehow it all worked.

Yeah, what we said may be a bit unfair to the Dead, but they did come to symbolize, imho, more than any other group the later aspects of cultic social use of LSD. We felt ambivalent about the Stones, seeing them as evil incarnate, but dam_n well loving their music. What we found interesting about the Dead was much more what they did, later, outside the group. Mickey Hart did some wonderful cross-cultural stuff; Jerry did amazing stuff with Grisman on mandolin, and so forth. But, for us, groups like the Doors or the less well-remembered groups like Kaleidoscope and "It's a Beautiful Day" were the real psychedelic bands (and some other strange groups like Dr. Hook and the Medicine Show, and Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen, and strange spin-offs like Dan Hicks and His Hot Licks, and the Maria Muldaur thing. And, dam_n, we left out the wonderful music and poetry of Joanie Mitchell who was constantly evolving and experimenting, moving between genres of folk and jazz, and being uniquely creative.

... to be continued ...

[orang37]

response to UG : part 2 : TV decided I had posted "too many blocks" ...

For our ears the few Dead concerts we went to were just a "mishmash of noise" ... but we weren't stoned; maybe that was the problem. And every recording we ever heard of them also sounded like a "mishmash of noise"

There are countless others who were able to produce amazing books and music while stoned to the gills - Ken Kesey kind of dabbled in both.

That one we'd debate you on : Kesey came from a very disciplined background (champion wrestler and all that). But now Pynchon : it's obvious Gravity's Rainbow is based partly on multiple acid trips, and it is a dam_n difficult book to read, but wondrous in places, but, for my tastes, wiped off the map by his masterpiece "Mason-Dixon." We'd argue that virtually no great literature or poetry came out of the sixties, by people who were stoned a lot, and people like Richard Farina (tragic early death there) were flashes in the pan compared to Norman Mailer, Capote, and others. The early work of Tom Robbins might be an exception ?

The music of the 60s was wondrous, but really not much better than the 70s and 80s, no wonder what some other old farts think.

We'd debate you there, too, arguing that there were no musical phenomena as unique as Baez, Dylan, Stones, Beatles, Doors, Airplane, Hendrix, etc. But sure, that's our bias.

Sure a lot of the hippy era was stupid, but a lot of minds opened up at the same time. Before that, it was almost normal to hate blacks and gays and a lot of other people that never caused me any harm. After the 60s, racism and hatred were no longer the norm.

The 60s and 70s were one of the most interesting, mind-expanding eras in history and I am glad that I was there and not in the box seats.

Yes, it was a time of incredible cultural ferment. My human who graduated from his high school in Florida in 1961, realized later that he was just at the tail-end of being immersed in a little bubble of post-Korean war American reality, where many things were not questioned, and the important issues of life were things like the all-electric kitchen, and the latest chrome-mobile. Not a single black person in my high school. No Vietnam war on the horizon then. Music : oh yeah, there was Elvis and white-soul, and freaky Buddy Holly, and real weird Roy Orbison, and the fabulous black music groups of the fifties which we still love, the incredible songs of the Platters, Coasters, Drifters, Bobby Blu Bland, and so on. In this little "lily white" bubble I grew up in we did not "hate" Black people : meaning by we the white middle-class : they had their place, we had ours, it wasn't questioned why we had had black maids and they didn't have white maids.

We were delighted to be in the sixties; we could pretend to be a poet, and get away with it Good and Evil were clearly defined, and it was so much fun to explore doing everything our parents had told us was going to destroy us To be young and sexy, and have long hair, to dance, and feel you were part of a transformation of the very universe itself : very cool stuff while it lasted.

best, ~o:37;

[gpdjohn]

I used to love Dan Hicks and His Hot Lips!

[anonymouse]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Anonymouse,

Just reading a few post today and there has been mentions of the Grateful Dead, Swarmi's in India etc etc and I was wondering how many old Hippies are residing in Chiang Mai. After the Chiang Mai forum thread I'm just trying to put a little umpthh into the CM forum.

We wonder what this "umpthh" quality you crave or feel is missing : is there an example that embodies "umpthh" you could tell us of ?

Was there any "umpthh" in that ?

best, ~o:37;

Plenty of "umptth"

And I'd like to point out I'm not using the phrase 'Old Hippies" in any derogratory sense, I'm thinking of a group of people with common musical tastes and certain ideals.

In the same way I mentioned that I was an old punk, I enjoy bands like the Clash and the Sex Pistols and was inspired by there energy and the do it yourself, anyone can do anything attitude.

[Samuian]

David Peel and the Lower East Side - Tuli Kupferberg - Velvet Underground - Kraan - Amon Duul - Jan Luc Goddard - insane!

But then out of all this came some very, very, undeniable strong,

never heard or seen signals, which changed the lot once and forever!

"If you meet me, have some courtesy, have some sympathy, and some taste; use all your well-learned politesse, or I'll lay your soul to waste."

-Sympathy for the Devil-

Rolling Stones

This is the world we live in - Ye Olde Fart, Hippie, Mobster, Rambler, Beatnik, Hobo, Hells Angel or Psycho, it's all the same, only different locations under the sun!

[KMixon]

Thanks Kevinhunt! I hope when we get there there might be a "punk night" to partake in. I love all genre's of music, especially 70's punk...from all over. why limit yourself? And I agree with Samuian, we are all the same, just different.

XO

i love *most* genres. not all. sorry.

Edited December 16, 2009 by KMixon

[Ulysses G.]

There are countless others who were able to produce amazing books and music while stoned to the gills - Ken Kesey kind of dabbled in both.

That one we'd debate you on : Kesey came from a very disciplined background (champion wrestler and all that).

The music of the 60s was wondrous, but really not much better than the 70s and 80s, no wonder what some other old farts think.

We'd debate you there, too, arguing that there were no musical phenomena as unique as Baez, Dylan, Stones, Beatles, Doors, Airplane, Hendrix, etc. But sure, that's our bias.

Ken Kesey worked in an insane asylum while LSD was still legal and he wrote most of the Chief's part in the book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest while tripping on the job. In the book, the Chief is the narrator, while the movie is mostly told from McMurphy's point of view.

REM, The Smiths, The Cure, New Order, Joy Division, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Husker Du, X, and lots more.

I would say that there was actually more good music in the 80s than the 60s, but no one as GREAT as the Beatles and Stones.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[KMixon]

Ulysses G...you just hit the nail on the head with your bands...esp with X!!!! I have to add Jesus and Mary Chain, Misfits, Pixies, and while yes, the talking heads and the cars might have surfaced in the 70's they really got the great kick in the 80's. LOVE it all! But I love Dylan way more than the Beatles or the stones...but i like both after him.

Edited December 16, 2009 by KMixon

[orang37]

Ken Kesey worked in an insane asylum while LSD was still legal and he wrote most of the Chief's part in the book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest while tripping on the job. In the book, the Chief is the narrator, while the movie is mostly told from McMurphy's point of view.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun UG,

You may find this amusing : the first year of my MSW program at UC Berkeley, in 1974, I did my field work at the Veterans' Psychiatric Hospital in Menlo Park, and I worked on the exact same ward where Kesey had once worked. By that time, of course, psychiatry had changed radically; new anti-psychotic medications were available that eliminated a lot of need for physical restraints; and that ward had been converted into a "patient run democracry" based on an English model called the "Fairweather" model. The head social worker of that ward, who'd been at that hospital for ages did not work on that ward when Kesey was there; he was at the end of his career, and was quite burned-out, but he claimed to remember Kesey, and claimed he was never stoned on the job. Will we ever really know ?

My gut-level feeling is that Kesey and the Merry Pranksters did as much myth-spinning about themselves and their lifestyles and adventures as did Kerouac with Neal Casady, Snyder, and the other "beats" around him who he turned into characters in books like "The Dharma Bums."

REM, The Smiths, The Cure, New Order, Joy Division, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Husker Du, X, and lots more. I would say that there was actually more good music in the 80s than the 60s, but no one as GREAT as the Beatles and Stones.

What can we say ? I've never heard the music of many of those groups; by the early 1980's my human was into his yogic phase, staring at his navel, rather than staring into the sun, and working with the disabled and mentally ill, and the music he listened to was most often classical or Indian, and the beginnings of what came to be known as "new age" music on the weekly FM program called "Hearts of Space."

Maybe each generation has its moments of magic, embodied in certain musical groups and artists, that they will always "enshrine" in their memories on a special "altar," making them "sacred icons" which cannot be replaced or added to : for me it was Baez, Dylan, Beatles, Stones, Doors, Mitchell, Waits. In later years it seemed only a few artists really touched me deeply, like Van Morrison, and, strangely, the incredible voice and music of Dolores O'Riordan and the Cranberries.

Now, in his human's "older age" the music he wants to listen to is primarily from the arab world and the world of flamenco and special traditions like the Sephardic influenced music, world music.

regards, ~o:37;

p.s. We'll shut up now for a while.

[eek]

I don't mind being called a hippie so much eek but I would rather you didn't call me old.

I don't think eek has been involved in this thread yet, I blame the drugs , you've got to be old to be a hippie

I blame this new fangled telephone technology. I got interupted in the middle of the post. It couldn"t be alkeimers.

WAH! Now I get blamed for stuff i havent even said!

(btw..its "Alzheimers"..i guess you just forgot. )

-------------------------------------------------------

I was born in the 70's, so im too young to be an old hippy, but, my mum did dress me up 70's style, had embroidered jeans and everything (even a mini fluffy sheepskin coat that matched my mums). My mum was a cool hippy mom.

I loved the attention that the older cool kids gave me!

[KMixon]

What can we say ? I've never heard the music of many of those groups; by the early 1980's my human was into his yogic phase, staring at his navel, rather than staring into the sun, and working with the disabled and mentally ill, and the music he listened to was most often classical or Indian, and the beginnings of what came to be known as "new age" music on the weekly FM program called "Hearts of Space."

Maybe each generation has its moments of magic, embodied in certain musical groups and artists, that they will always "enshrine" in their memories on a special "altar," making them "sacred icons" which cannot be replaced or added to : for me it was Baez, Dylan, Beatles, Stones, Doors, Mitchell, Waits. In later years it seemed only a few artists really touched me deeply, like Van Morrison, and, strangely, the incredible voice and music of Dolores O'Riordan and the Cranberries.

Now, in his human's "older age" the music he wants to listen to is primarily from the arab world and the world of flamenco and special traditions like the Sephardic influenced music, world music.

regards, ~o:37;

p.s. We'll shut up now for a while.

That's the wonderful thing about individuality. We all have our own perfect music, and it will continue to evolve (some less, some more). The time frame for which we grow up in seems to have a great impact on what we deem great. No one is wrong...except the guy who doesn't like what i like. I grew up around music lovers. passionate music lovers...and haters. I am still young, but have completely found myself (a music nazi) opening up and liking things I never would have listened to 15 years ago. I can't wait to see the crap i;m gonna love in 20 years. I kid, I kid.

Edited December 16, 2009 by PeaceBlondie

[Ulysses G.]

Like many people our age, I thought that good music had ended up with the 60s. However, I ended up dating a younger woman in the early 80s who loved to go see all the newest bands in small clubs and collected new wave music from England. I soon started to realize how much good music was still coming across the ocean and how many new bands in America were as good as any that had gone before (other than The Beatles, Stones, Dylan).

I got into music more than I had been before and have never stopped finding good new music since. My latest love is newer alt country artists like Lucinda Williams, Gillian Welch, Kasey Chambers, Patty Griffin, Julie and Buddy Miller. There is still lots of good music out there!

P.S. Mr. orange37, have you ever heard Dead Can Dance? They are hard to classify. But very melodic and they sound like they are right up your alley.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Ulysses G.

[KMixon]

UG...I take it you know Neko Case. If not, give her a whirl. And John Doe's, of X, solo stuff.

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, I like both. Thanks.

[doppa]

the greatest bad ever to influence most others, the beatles, untouchable then, untouchable now, and those who disagree get ye boxing gloves on

[Ulysses G.]

I agree that no one comes close, but the Stones almost come close. The Beatles are the greatest, but the Stones gave them a run for their money.

[MonsieurHulot]

The Beatles ? No one, I think, is in their tree. I mean it must be too high.

[harrry]

The Beatles ? No one, I think, is in their tree. I mean it must be too high.

As were they

[uptheos]

I was going to write about my mod / hippie days and some of the really unbelievable things I did.

I then decided that if ever any of you meet this boring old fart - you'd think I'm a pathological liar.

I DON'T even believe the life I led and some of the things I got up to in my younger days!!

Oh dear.......now I wanna go back to check out if it was for real?

Long John Baldry was THE man

[Puwa]

I'll jump in to defend my avatar, on of the great guitarists, performers, musical visionaries, and cool dudes of the 20th century. I'm not promoting the Dead's music; some like it, some don't--let's leave it at that. But Jerry Garcia was one of the most creative and hardworking performers in the history of rock, routinely performing 100+ shows per year with the Dead, Jerry Garcia Band, Merl Saunders, Legion of Mary, Reconstruction, Old and in the Way, Dave Grisham, plus doing studio sessions (especially on slide guitar) for other artists just to help out and have fun. In 1979, Jerry played live before audiences at least 145 times.

Since so many cite their love of Dylan, let me quote Bob on the death of Jerry Garcia and throw in a few other references:

“There’s no way to measure his greatness or magnitude as a person or a player. I don’t think any eulogizing will do him justice. He was that great, much more than a superb musician, with an uncanny ear and dexterity. He’s the very spirit personified of whatever is Muddy River country at its core and screams up into the spheres. He really had no equal. To me, he wasn’t only a musician and friend, he was more like a big brother who taught and showed me more than he’ll ever know. There’s a lot of spaces and advances between The Carter Family, Buddy Holly and say Ornette Coleman, a lot of universes, but he filled them all without being a member of any school. His playing was moody, awesome, sophisticated, hypnotic and subtle. There’s no way to convey the loss. It just digs down really deep”

1995 Dylan press release on the passing of Jerry Garcia

“You’re either a player, or you’re not a player. It didn’t occur to me until we did those shows with the Grateful Dead. If you just go out every three years or so like I was doing for a while, that’s when you lose touch. If you’re going to be a performer, you, you’ve gotta give it your all.”

1991 Interview with Robert Hiburn

“To me, that’s a great song (Joey). Yeah. And it never loses its appeal……That’s a tremendous song. And you’d only know it singing it night after night. You know who got me singing that song? Garcia. Yeah. He got me singing that song again. He said that’s one of the best songs ever written. Coming from him, it was hard to know which way to take that. [Laughs] He got me singing that song with them again. It was amazing how it would, right from the get-go, it had a life of its own, it just ran out of the gate and it just kept getting better and better and better and better and keeps on getting better… But to me, Joey has a Homeric quality to it that you don’t hear every day. Especially in popular music.”

1991 Interview with Paul Zollo

"The Dead did a lot of my songs, and we'd just take the whole arrangement, because they did it better than me. Jerry Garcia could hear the song in all my bad recordings, the song that was buried there. So if I want to bring out something different, I just bring out one of them Dead records and see which one I wanna do. I never do that with my records."

2006 interview with Jonathan Lethem

“Thank you. Well, I don't know exactly what to say here. Different peoples been coming down to the theater every night so far. And this night is no exception I guess. Anyway this is, keep ..., here's a young man I know you know who he is. I've played with him a few times before. I'm a great admirer and fan of his and support his group all the way, Jerry Garcia. He's gonna play with us, key of C.” – before “To Ramona”

10-16-80 Fox Warfield, San Francisco

“Thank you Grateful Dead!” – before “The Times They Are A-Changin’” …These were the only words Dylan spoke in concert during his 36 performances of 1987!

7-12-87 Giants Stadium, East Rutherford…Dylan and Dead concert

[lannarebirth]

the greatest bad ever to influence most others, the beatles, untouchable then, untouchable now, and those who disagree get ye boxing gloves on

A very good pop band with little to say.

[Groongthep]

As Springsteen said, Dylan changed the world. The Grateful Dead didn't change their underwear.

This doesn't mean much coming from Springsteen who was and still is about the most ultra commercial narcissistic musician around. His most recent releases aren't much different than the stuff he did 25 years ago. Like everyone else Springsteen got old, but instead of evolving he still wants to be a teen idol. I can't take him or anything he says seriously.

I have always loved Bob Dylan and still do. I also loved the Dead but for a different reason. They added a lot of fun to a scene where too many other musicians were too busy trying to make themselves rich and famous as if that were their whole purpose. When you're young having fun is important. Now that we are old farts we sometimes forget that.

[doppa]

the greatest bad ever to influence most others, the beatles, untouchable then, untouchable now, and those who disagree get ye boxing gloves on

A very good pop band with little to say.

right that's it , name your choice of weapons, twelve paces, hope it's foggy

[mauGR1]

Maybe I'll comment further on this later but I just wanted to say I think you guys are being a little hard on the Dead. Maybe you didn't like the scene that sprung up around the bands touring, but the music was fantastic. They are a band you can't compare to other bands as they were in a genre all their own, same with Dylan.

I agree,G.D. were unique.

I don't like much of their records,but the 2 double lives from '69 and '71 are outstanding.And J.Garcia gave great contributions to other great works by Kantner & Slick and the Jefferson family.

Imho the music from the sixties and early seventies is still the best,and many younger friends agree.

I was too young at the time to be a hippy,but i've got a big influence from the "hippy dream",like N.Young said:"Don't be denied"

Peace & Love & Brotherhood

[lannarebirth]

I'll jump in to defend my avatar, on of the great guitarists, performers, musical visionaries, and cool dudes of the 20th century. I'm not promoting the Dead's music; some like it, some don't--let's leave it at that. But Jerry Garcia was one of the most creative and hardworking performers in the history of rock, routinely performing 100+ shows per year with the Dead, Jerry Garcia Band, Merl Saunders, Legion of Mary, Reconstruction, Old and in the Way, Dave Grisham, plus doing studio sessions (especially on slide guitar) for other artists just to help out and have fun. In 1979, Jerry played live before audiences at least 145 times.

Amen.

A sweet, generous and humble man and a very much underappreciated musician, who like Dylan had the "blood of the land" in his voice and guitar picking. Though neither would probably admit to it, IMO he saved Dylan at a time when Bob was losing faith in his own gifts.

[Ulysses G.]

the greatest bad ever to influence most others, the beatles, untouchable then, untouchable now, and those who disagree get ye boxing gloves on

A very good pop band with little to say.

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one, I hope someday you will join us, and the world will live as one.

John Lennon

[Atmos]

You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one, I hope someday you will join us, and the world will live as one. John Lennon

scanning the posts, kept seeing references to the Dead.

But not 'my' Dead, as in Dead Kennedys

I'll see your Lennon quote and throw in DK's Holiday in Cambodia . . .

Now you can go where people are one

Now you can go where they get things done

What you need, my son:.

Is a holiday in Cambodia

Where people dress in black

A holiday in Cambodia

Where you'll kiss ass or crack

Pol Pot, Pol Pot, Pol Pot, Pol Pot, [etc]