Pollution- You Decide!

[Thailand]

Me, I love it here in ChiangMai.

These are not pictures of giant condoms they are the before and after of the filters I use in my pool, the slightly darker one is just a few hours after adding the clean one.

This is what is in the air this time of the year, you and I and the kids are breathing this air, make your own judgment.

[Artamus]

Or maybe people are not taking a shower before entering the pool?

[gotlost]

I would be looking for a cleaner water supply after a couple of hours its that black?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Dude, it's a pool. Isn't there a pool forum somewhere to talk about pool issues with other people who have pools all day?

Air conditioner filters would already be better. Or you know what, even better yet, actual measuring equipment: www.pcd.go.th.

Nice pool though. Like, really nice.

Edited December 23, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Thailand]

I would be looking for a cleaner water supply after a couple of hours its that black?

Nothing to do with the water supply, it's from the falling ash that we have to wash away from our patio on a daily basis during this time of the year.

[Thailand]

Dude, it's a pool. Isn't there a pool forum somewhere to talk about pool issues with other people who have pools all day?

Air conditioner filters would already be better. Or you know what, even better yet, actual measuring equipment: www.pcd.go.th.

Nice pool though. Like, really nice.

The issue is not the pool

It is my method of measuring what crap fills the air during this time of the year. Perhaps I should offer it to pcd.co.th to compliment their graphs and figures.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Thailand,

Those before-and-after pictures are pretty scary.

It would be interesting to know what part of Chiang Mai you live in (inner city ?), and your proximity to major highways and or freeways where "corridors" of pollution build up, or, if you are in the city proper (Amphur Muang), if you live near highly-trafficked and populated areas.

Also makes us wonder what is directly above your pool : we'd assume "open sky."

Can you observe any visible periodicity in when the pool-pollution level builds up ? Any particular time, day of the week, time of the month ? Any worse, last year, during the months of heavy pollution ?

Also interesting to know how you filter the water coming into the pool, its source, and if you can analyze the amount of particulate matter in the water in general.

In the absence of rational explanations, we must, of course, not turn our backs on the super-natural.

Given the certain "shamanic" abilties our dual co-location of Orangutan and human soul-minds in one well-used human meat-container have acquired, we are able to communicate with the Nagas in matters concerning water; for a modest donation to your local Wat, or NGO of your choice, we are prepared to have our human form convey us into your water (with a bathing suit on, of course), and seek to discover if there has been some accidental offense given in this location (which might have nothing to do with you or your family) which is causing the Nagas to create the phenomenon you describe.

If a "ritual specialist" is called for to remove a "curse" or propitiate negative "spiritual energy," we have someone we can recommend (a true Thai Mor Phii, Mor Doo, the "real deal").

best, ~o:37;

Edited December 23, 2009 by orang37

[chiang mai]

I'll be interested to read what Priceless has to say regarding this non-scientific anecdotal evidence, will no doubt attribute it to the quality of the filter or similar!

[gotlost]

OK, that crap is definitely nasty but we are not going to get the Thais to change their ways on agricultural burns, so we need to put our thanking hat on about how to effectually deal with your filtration problem.If the filters are that way now I would like to see them in March at the peak of the brush fires. I usually leave for a few weeks for the beach. Every time it gets this way in CM I just remind myself of the clear sky's and air in Los Angeles.

[neverdie]

Dude, it's a pool. Isn't there a pool forum somewhere to talk about pool issues with other people who have pools all day?

Air conditioner filters would already be better. Or you know what, even better yet, actual measuring equipment: www.pcd.go.th.

Nice pool though. Like, really nice.

The issue is not the pool

It is my method of measuring what crap fills the air during this time of the year. Perhaps I should offer it to pcd.co.th to compliment their graphs and figures.

Thailand, I can imagine with nostrils like those on your avatar, you probably have two of those filters up your nose at any given time, one each side .

Thanks for the pics, certainly turns me off wanting to be in CM in the next few months.

[Ulysses G.]

I would be looking for a cleaner water supply after a couple of hours its that black?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

It could just be blowing dirt also. Of course dirt is natural but all particulate matters are health damaging. Until just a few centuries ago humans did not live nearly as long. Lots of "natural" things like sunlight and particulate matter would not accrue into real health problems if a person only lived 35 to 45 years.

For most of human history the average lifespan was about 15 years. Just slightly longer than reproductive age.

These days humans are living so long due to vaccines, hygiene, antibiotics, reduction of per capita warfare etc that these previously light impact environmental influences are having real effects on longer lived populations. Don't wear sunscreen and breath smoke around the cooking fire for 70 years and there is going to be consequences.

I don't expect the Thai's to do much about it. The western mind attaches more significance to the human living condition while buddhist philosophy sees the human condition and suffering as more of an illusion of the mind. Or am I missing something?

[orang37]

... For most of human history the average lifespan was about 15 years. Just slightly longer than reproductive age. ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CobraSnakeNeckTie,

May we, respectfully, ask what basis, what sources, you have for this conclusion ?

thanks, ~o:37

[orang37]

... snip ... we need to put our thanking hat ... snip ...

Suggest re-phrasing that : "we need to put on our gas masks," or, "we need to put on our portable atmospheric life-support systems."

By the way, even though we realize you may experience it as only a "typo," we think your words "thanking hat" were a message from your deeper mind, you might say the "ghost" of your "Orang mind," and we relish their sweetness.

Consider, if you will : "we need to take off our grasp masks."

best, ~o:37;

[orang37]

... snip ... I can imagine with nostrils like those on your avatar, you probably have two of those filters up your nose at any given time ... snip ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun NeverDie,

Your vision, expressed in the above quote, makes us wonder what you may have up one of your orifices, or "up your sleeve"

best, ~o:37;

[Drew Aitch]

I must say I'm a little confused by the filter display, but perhaps I'm looking at it in the wrong way?

If you were to sit around the same pool area for the same few hours in a brand spanking new white t-shirt, would it too look like the filthy filter in the photo?

I have been out and about for half a day battling through the dense traffic of CM on a motorcycle and wearing a white t-shirt, and I have to say, I have NEVER got home and had to bin it, which would be the case if it looked half as soiled as the upright 'static' filter in your pic!

But like I say, perhaps I'm missing something here and your dirt was acquired by hours of mechanical sucking? Either that, or it's posted as a joke?

Thanks

Aitch

PS: Why would you stretch that dirty filter over the top of the nice clean one underneath? I thought it was an after shot, but in the photo, it sits on top of the unsoiled one seen in the picture above!

Edited December 23, 2009 by Drew Aitch

[anonymouse]

I would be looking for a cleaner water supply after a couple of hours its that black?

Nothing to do with the water supply, it's from the falling ash that we have to wash away from our patio on a daily basis during this time of the year.

The falling ash is coming from where?

to me this indicative of something localised to you a factory or something

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

... For most of human history the average lifespan was about 15 years. Just slightly longer than reproductive age. ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CobraSnakeNeckTie,

May we, respectfully, ask what basis, what sources, you have for this conclusion ?

thanks, ~o:37

Well I wasn't there at the time but it's I learned this in Anthropology classes. Humans have been around for millions of years. For most of that time they died from early diseases, lack of medical care and exposure to the elements and good old starvation.

In the last few thousand years average lifespan has increased dramatically. In just the last century it has nearly doubled. Mind you this does not mean the oldest living people. This statistic is referring to the average life expectancy at birth and there were a lot of variations as I recall depending on conditions and sometimes just luck.

As late as the bronze age the average was as low as 18 years. Classical Grecian period the average was ~25.

World average is now 66 years which is up from about 35 at 1900. There will be different estimates based on the sketchy data and method of calculation.

Enjoy your long lives !!!!!

[Priceless]

I would be looking for a cleaner water supply after a couple of hours its that black?

Nothing to do with the water supply, it's from the falling ash that we have to wash away from our patio on a daily basis during this time of the year.

The falling ash is coming from where?

to me this indicative of something localised to you a factory or something

I tend to agree with anonymouse, if for no other reason than that the present pollution levels are not particularly high. So far this month the Chiang Mai average is 52.7 µg/m³, certainly higher than December of last year (which was an all-time low) but not much above the decade's December average of 48.7. The Thai limit for daily pollution level is 120 µg/m³ and the US limit is 150 µg/m³.

During the infamous March of 2007, the monthly average was 161.7 µg/m³. If ambient air pollution were the reason for the OP's problem, one would have expected his pool to turn solid at that time

/ Priceless

[Priceless]

... For most of human history the average lifespan was about 15 years. Just slightly longer than reproductive age. ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CobraSnakeNeckTie,

May we, respectfully, ask what basis, what sources, you have for this conclusion ?

thanks, ~o:37

Well I wasn't there at the time but it's I learned this in Anthropology classes. Humans have been around for millions of years. For most of that time they died from early diseases, lack of medical care and exposure to the elements and good old starvation.

In the last few thousand years average lifespan has increased dramatically. In just the last century it has nearly doubled. Mind you this does not mean the oldest living people. This statistic is referring to the average life expectancy at birth and there were a lot of variations as I recall depending on conditions and sometimes just luck.

As late as the bronze age the average was as low as 18 years. Classical Grecian period the average was ~25.

World average is now 66 years which is up from about 35 at 1900. There will be different estimates based on the sketchy data and method of calculation.

Enjoy your long lives !!!!!

According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy ), average life span actually bottomed out at 18 years in the bronze age:

Wikipedia is certainly not the final word on everything, but it seems that life expectancy was never as low as 15 years.

BTW, I am enjoying my life and hoping for quite a few more years

/ Priceless

[Ulysses G.]

Shucks, here comes that spoilsport Priceless with all his durn facts.

[Priceless]

Shucks, here comes that spoilsport Priceless with all his durn facts.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

... For most of human history the average lifespan was about 15 years. Just slightly longer than reproductive age. ...

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CobraSnakeNeckTie,

May we, respectfully, ask what basis, what sources, you have for this conclusion ?

thanks, ~o:37

Well I wasn't there at the time but it's I learned this in Anthropology classes. Humans have been around for millions of years. For most of that time they died from early diseases, lack of medical care and exposure to the elements and good old starvation.

In the last few thousand years average lifespan has increased dramatically. In just the last century it has nearly doubled. Mind you this does not mean the oldest living people. This statistic is referring to the average life expectancy at birth and there were a lot of variations as I recall depending on conditions and sometimes just luck.

As late as the bronze age the average was as low as 18 years. Classical Grecian period the average was ~25.

World average is now 66 years which is up from about 35 at 1900. There will be different estimates based on the sketchy data and method of calculation.

Enjoy your long lives !!!!!

According to Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy ), average life span actually bottomed out at 18 years in the bronze age:

Wikipedia is certainly not the final word on everything, but it seems that life expectancy was never as low as 15 years.

BTW, I am enjoying my life and hoping for quite a few more years

/ Priceless

bronze age was ~4000 bc to ~1000 bc. The 90% of human history predates it.

[orang37]

in response to posts from Khun CobraSnakeNeckTie and Khun Priceless :

In our humble opinions, the average figures are "guess-timates," and, as so often happens, important "truths" are "buried" within them. Often the "mean" and the "median" are far more important than the "average," : often the reality of groups that are "outliers on the bell-shaped curve" (least probable) contain more information than the modal groups.

Consider, please :

1. the great differences in the total number of people in the world at any time from earliest times on

2. the variations in local conditions in food supply, human relationships to wildlife (and domesticated animals), insects, parasites, predators; variations in the natural environment that resulted in "natural" protection from other (human or animal) enemies.

3. the paradox that in the modern era the great decrease in infant mortality (for some nations) has resulted in both more people, and so, on average, more who live longer, but also people surviving who are perhaps "weaker" in some ways, and may live for a shorter number of years. But then, you can counter-argue that with the assertion that the great decline in birth rate is related to the decline in infant mortality. The point of all this being to suggest that's what's happening around lifespan involves complex inter-dependent feedback loops, and does not lend itself to generalities.

4. the fact that a major source of "death" for many people throughout history has been warfare, violence, by other humans or the secondary results (famine, plague) in the aftermath of human violence.

In one short period in 1857 King Alaungpaya of Ava, in reprisal for Mon rebellion : "In the capital city of Hongsawatoi alone, more than 7,000 pregnant women, 6,000 infant, and 5,000 children were brutally massacred . Most of them were forced into several stockades and burnt them alive. Over 3,000 Mon Buddhist monks were also executed in various most cruel methods, including forced trampling by elephants."

The famines in Bengal during the Raj (British Empire) that killed millions were the direct result of colonial actions by the British, although they were certainly not "consciously" practicing genocide, just being good "servants of the crown" first, and good "businessmen" second (or maybe the reverse).

Six million people were killed in the early history of the Christian religion in a controversy over the interpretation of two words generated by changing the spelling of one letter in one Greek word : of course in such apparently "religion related" wars, or persecutions, the "religious" aspect on the surface, most often masks geo-political struggles between nations, or struggles for dynastic power within nations.

But, of course, not all the human-caused deaths are "deliberate" : as Jared Diamond points out in "Guns, Germs, and Steel," it was diseases to which the native inhabitants of the "New World" had no resistance to that enabled conquerors like Cortez to overpower empires decimated by disease.

It is interesting to wonder if "atmospheric pollution" is a "newcomer" on the world stage, or the re-appearance of the same actor wearing a new mask. Interesting to think about over centuries what has been the typical quality of air available to most people.

Not only does evolution affect our genetic vulnerability to disease, but diseases evolve : as Rene Dubos pointed out in the 1950's in "The Mirage of Health" : the prevalance of tuberculosis, the "modal disease" of the early modern era's great industrial cities declined greatly in the 20th. century (pre-vaccination) not just because of public health and sanitation, but also because the disease itself evolved and became less virulent.

best, ~o:37;

Edited December 23, 2009 by orang37

[Priceless]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy[/url][/url] ), average life span actually bottomed out at 18 years in the bronze age:

Wikipedia is certainly not the final word on everything, but it seems that life expectancy was never as low as 15 years.

BTW, I am enjoying my life and hoping for quite a few more years

/ Priceless

bronze age was ~4000 bc to ~1000 bc. The 90% of human history predates it.

Exactly, and according to the Wikipedia post life expectancy was actually longer before the Bronze age.

/ Priceless

Edited December 23, 2009 by Priceless

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Not wanting to digress into pedantic detail but in Anthropology classes I recall the accepted figure was more like 13 years avg age for most of history. Perhaps that has been revised higher now. Again I can't authenticate that but whether it was 13, 15, 18 or 25 the central assertion I made was that because humans live much longer as time progresses then environmental stressors have a taken a greater importance.

[Thailand]

To answer a few questions.

It does not normally happen until Feb/March of each year, this year the burning has started much earlier. Hopefully most of it will be done before the usual dates or are we going to get a longer season?

The ash is definitely from the burning of rice fields, leaves etc. We can see the smoke rising, smell the burning and watch the ash come down. It is very noticeable because of the colour of our pool and the surrounding patio area.

We live in Chiang Mai suburbs, if there is such a thing, 15 mins from central, 10 mins to airport in the middle of a secluded estate not close too highways etc.

No, the pictures show two separate filters not one inside the other, why would I do that?

Whilst I appreciate technical analysis what I have shown is simply what we get every year. We know what it is and where it comes from-simply sharing with the forum what most of you do not see.

We will not be seeking to move elsewhere, not looking to gripe or moan, simply showing it how it is where we are at the particular time of the year that we are all aware of.

Take it or leave it, your choice.

[Rasseru]

Six million people were killed in the early history of the Christian religion in a controversy over the interpretation of two words generated by changing the spelling of one letter in one Greek word . . .

Sawadee khrap, k. orang37. Please tell us more about this. Six million is quite an astonishing number of people, particularly in the context of the overall population of the 'Christian' world in its early history.

[lannarebirth]

Well, that filter does look icky. If I might make a suggestion; maybe you shouldn't hose the dirt/grime/soot/ash of your pool deck and patio into your pool.

[orang37]

Six million people were killed in the early history of the Christian religion in a controversy over the interpretation of two words generated by changing the spelling of one letter in one Greek word . . .

Sawadee khrap, k. orang37. Please tell us more about this. Six million is quite an astonishing number of people, particularly in the context of the overall population of the 'Christian' world in its early history.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Rasseru,

We may have to "eat" those words; so far we're unable to locate a satisfactory resource on the "Homousian" controversy Homousian Schism to back up those words, and we are unable to locate in our human's memory the exact source, author ... i.e., where he read it ... : although his memory of reading it (perhaps as long ago as 35 years ago) is very clear.

The religious dispute certainly did involve the interpretation of a single Greek word, based on a variance in translation hanging on a single letter in that word, and involved a distinction between whether the body of Christ was "like God," or con-substantial with "God."

You are very right, and, as usual, prescient, to question such a statement not backed by a source. For example, claims have been made by contemporary writers (some with a "feminist" agenda) that nine-million or more women may have been killed for witchcraft during three or four centuries in Europe : other scholars strongly disagree, and estimate the total to be as low as 60,000 (which to our minds is 60,000 too many).

While a further argument is not a proper way to handle a valid questioning, we might dare mention the well-documented increase in female infanticide in India following independence as another example; of course with the abilitiy to scan and do sex-determination, active murder of the new born, is now handled via abortion. Sources on that one in hand.

It would be blasphemous and disgusting to mention our own duality in this context, but, let's just say : "we don't have that problem : during the singularity of our joining we were 'cleansed' of all heresies, not to mention a whole bunch of dirty fantasies, and impure ideas, and several nightmares."

best, ~o:37;

"question everything, trust nothing" attributed to Kabbala tradition