Language Schools, International Schools, Bilingual Schools, Government Schools

[LingPing]

Hey guys, apologies if this post is somewhere else but i have not found any decent information online and sometimes it is just easier asking someone on here.

Basically, all i want to know is the differences between all these school and how it affects a westerner looking for a job. One thing i want to know is how a westerner would fit into a government school or kindergarten? What kind of English program do they have etc

Any help to a newbie in Chiang Mai and to Thai Visa would be amazing. Cheers guys

[PeaceBlondie]

Real international schools require a professional degree in education. Lesser schools usually - not always - require a bachelor degree.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Westerners don't really fit in at Thai government schools. Sometimes they are tolerated as a necessary evil. There is a great deal of jealousy because native speakers are paid more than Thai teachers, and usually don't have a university degree in education. Moreover, many schools have experiences with foreign teachers who have been dodgy, or who have acted unprofessionally. The teaching profession commands high respect in Thailand, and teachers are expected to conform their conduct with that degree of respect.

Kindergarten teaching is almost exclusively reserved to female teachers and usually only teachers with prior teaching experience with early learners will be hired.

[jonclark]

I have to disagree with parts of the previous post based on my own experience. A Thai Government school can be an excellent place to work, but you need to remember that it is you how has to change or adapt to fit in. This is where many people fail and end up 'doing a runner' .

If you can teach and get the students to learn and actually put in the time and effort (also learn to speak Thai this is a massive aid to getting along with you Thai collegues in other departments) a government school can be a great place to work.

The first year will be the hardest, and the longer you stay the easier it gets. Will some people dislike you - Yes, but it is the same as any job, in any country in the world.

At the end of the day. It is up to you to put in the time and effort and prove to your employers that you are worthy of the extra dosh you get paid. Because you get paid extra you may also be asked to do extra things, classes for Thai teachers, the odd induction program for new students etc. Nod and smile when asked to do these things, becuase its part of your job. Thai teachers have a lot of responsibilities, extra duties etc that take up their personal time and for which they get no extra pay. SO be warned. Nod, smile and get on with it.

If you think it is any easier in International schools, if anything it is harder as the expectations and levels of profesionalism are way higher, and your western collegues, just like Thai collegues won't put up with any crap. And most importantly you need to know your stuff or you will be found out very quickly - What is the difference between IGCSE Paper 1 and Paper 3?

If you're new to teaching a language school is the way to go, but make sure you have it in writing, 100% crystal clear what the language school will provide you with regarding visa and work permit, who will pay and importantly WHEN these important documents will be processed. If you are not legal you have very little recourse to legal aid should you ever need it (bottom of the food chain) Also make sure all salary issues (date of payment, how you are being paid [check, cash, bank transfer] amount, hourly rates, taxes etc). Most problems in a language school come from these issues.

It sounds like you don't have too much experience, so i would recommend looking at a couple of language schools, and once there try teaching at different age groups until you find your niche. Kindergarten are for me personally a complete nightmare, but other teachers are great at it.

Start in a language school, find your niche after a year honing your skills look for a job at the right level for you and put in the hours. If you are any good at your job, it will be recognised and in a few years you'll be enjoying long summer holidays on a beach somewhere

Good Luck

[BlackArtemis]

I worked in a Government school which had an EP program and felt this was a much better deal than most private schools.

I was not qualified enough to work at an international so private and Government were my choices.

I was paid 25,000/month

Sign in before 8am and can leave by 3pm

I taught three hours a day, the same class 1hr of English, math, and science for 5 days a week. So I taught 15hrs weekly

I never had more than 35 students in a classroom

I did not have air conditioning, but now the school does have it.

I had off almost the entire month of October, from mid March to early May and was paid. I was allowed to travel home at any time during my off days

I might have had to put in at a maximum of 3 weekend days per year. (Camps, Sports day etc)

Hassle free work permits because school administrators were friends with those issuing the permits. So they sent off the paperwork a head of time and then you took 45 minutes to walk in and get it done.

Now, I could have earned 5-10k Bhat more at a private school.

about 7:30 to 4 or later, no exceptions.

20-27hrs of teaching time a week

Most jobs at the time were for roaming only

Some offered on campus housing, but don't roll in at 2am unless you want it to be the latest rumor for the next three days

Less Holidays, some only allowed 1 week in October and mandatory check ins during the summer. I had friends who had to be there, even if it only meant reading a book.

I made an extra 20K/month through private tutoring and still put in less hours than the private schools around me wanted. but I did sacrifice free time.

Now, not all Gov't schools are like mine, in fact the Non-EP teachers taught 3-6 different classrooms with upwards of 50 kids. But they did not teach more than 15hrs either.

Now, no matter what, you are going to run into some crazy scenarios and will have pluses and minuses ate each school. Check them all out and then make a decision that best fits your own wants and needs.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

I have to disagree with parts of the previous post based on my own experience. A Thai Government school can be an excellent place to work, but you need to remember that it is you how has to change or adapt to fit in. This is where many people fail and end up 'doing a runner' .

If you can teach and get the students to learn and actually put in the time and effort (also learn to speak Thai this is a massive aid to getting along with you Thai collegues in other departments) a government school can be a great place to work.

The first year will be the hardest, and the longer you stay the easier it gets. Will some people dislike you - Yes, but it is the same as any job, in any country in the world.

At the end of the day. It is up to you to put in the time and effort and prove to your employers that you are worthy of the extra dosh you get paid. Because you get paid extra you may also be asked to do extra things, classes for Thai teachers, the odd induction program for new students etc. Nod and smile when asked to do these things, becuase its part of your job. Thai teachers have a lot of responsibilities, extra duties etc that take up their personal time and for which they get no extra pay. SO be warned. Nod, smile and get on with it.

If you think it is any easier in International schools, if anything it is harder as the expectations and levels of profesionalism are way higher, and your western collegues, just like Thai collegues won't put up with any crap. And most importantly you need to know your stuff or you will be found out very quickly - What is the difference between IGCSE Paper 1 and Paper 3?

If you're new to teaching a language school is the way to go, but make sure you have it in writing, 100% crystal clear what the language school will provide you with regarding visa and work permit, who will pay and importantly WHEN these important documents will be processed. If you are not legal you have very little recourse to legal aid should you ever need it (bottom of the food chain) Also make sure all salary issues (date of payment, how you are being paid [check, cash, bank transfer] amount, hourly rates, taxes etc). Most problems in a language school come from these issues.

It sounds like you don't have too much experience, so i would recommend looking at a couple of language schools, and once there try teaching at different age groups until you find your niche. Kindergarten are for me personally a complete nightmare, but other teachers are great at it.

Start in a language school, find your niche after a year honing your skills look for a job at the right level for you and put in the hours. If you are any good at your job, it will be recognised and in a few years you'll be enjoying long summer holidays on a beach somewhere

Good Luck

I was not saying that a government school is a bad place to work. I enjoyed my two years in an EP program. The OP was asking if western teachers can fit in at various types of schools in Thailand.

Thai teachers and government school administrations don't respect foreign teachers of English. Nothing in your post indicates that you ever received that respect. The Thai teachers are very jealous of foreign teachers who lack proper teaching credentials and who are paid much more than Thai teachers. They also don't understand that classroom management styles are different in the West. As a result, the Thai teachers and the administration dislike foreign teachers. Many of them don't hide their animosity. They do recognize, for the most part, however, that there are really almost no Thai teachers who can properly teach English, other than grammar. Oh, and BTW, they think they are better at English grammar than the foreign teachers.

[jonclark]

I have to disagree with parts of the previous post based on my own experience. A Thai Government school can be an excellent place to work, but you need to remember that it is you how has to change or adapt to fit in. This is where many people fail and end up 'doing a runner' .

If you can teach and get the students to learn and actually put in the time and effort (also learn to speak Thai this is a massive aid to getting along with you Thai collegues in other departments) a government school can be a great place to work.

The first year will be the hardest, and the longer you stay the easier it gets. Will some people dislike you - Yes, but it is the same as any job, in any country in the world.

At the end of the day. It is up to you to put in the time and effort and prove to your employers that you are worthy of the extra dosh you get paid. Because you get paid extra you may also be asked to do extra things, classes for Thai teachers, the odd induction program for new students etc. Nod and smile when asked to do these things, becuase its part of your job. Thai teachers have a lot of responsibilities, extra duties etc that take up their personal time and for which they get no extra pay. SO be warned. Nod, smile and get on with it.

If you think it is any easier in International schools, if anything it is harder as the expectations and levels of profesionalism are way higher, and your western collegues, just like Thai collegues won't put up with any crap. And most importantly you need to know your stuff or you will be found out very quickly - What is the difference between IGCSE Paper 1 and Paper 3?

If you're new to teaching a language school is the way to go, but make sure you have it in writing, 100% crystal clear what the language school will provide you with regarding visa and work permit, who will pay and importantly WHEN these important documents will be processed. If you are not legal you have very little recourse to legal aid should you ever need it (bottom of the food chain) Also make sure all salary issues (date of payment, how you are being paid [check, cash, bank transfer] amount, hourly rates, taxes etc). Most problems in a language school come from these issues.

It sounds like you don't have too much experience, so i would recommend looking at a couple of language schools, and once there try teaching at different age groups until you find your niche. Kindergarten are for me personally a complete nightmare, but other teachers are great at it.

Start in a language school, find your niche after a year honing your skills look for a job at the right level for you and put in the hours. If you are any good at your job, it will be recognised and in a few years you'll be enjoying long summer holidays on a beach somewhere

Good Luck

I was not saying that a government school is a bad place to work. I enjoyed my two years in an EP program. The OP was asking if western teachers can fit in at various types of schools in Thailand.

Thai teachers and government school administrations don't respect foreign teachers of English. Nothing in your post indicates that you ever received that respect. The Thai teachers are very jealous of foreign teachers who lack proper teaching credentials and who are paid much more than Thai teachers. They also don't understand that classroom management styles are different in the West. As a result, the Thai teachers and the administration dislike foreign teachers. Many of them don't hide their animosity. They do recognize, for the most part, however, that there are really almost no Thai teachers who can properly teach English, other than grammar. Oh, and BTW, they think they are better at English grammar than the foreign teachers.

Just to clarify - Yes i did get plenty of respect from all the staff at the school, did they bow down before me, No and i wouldn't want them to; but they were always interested in what i was doing and asking for advice, teaching ideas, and how the department could move forward.

All I can say is that respect is earn t, sure many Thai teachers are jealous, and given the dross that is presented in a shirt and tie as an 'English Teacher' who can blame them. But the OP needs to understand that respect can be gained, like all people Thais recognize dedication and hard work and if your students do well and progress, and you interacts with the school as a community you will succeed.

Schools are communities - if you teach and return to the office and then leave school at the earliest opportunity every day, sure people will notice and you won't be part of that community. So expect to be ostracized.

Attend assembly every morning, speak to teachers in other departments, smile at people, ask if other teachers want help, if a teacher is absent fill in for them, get to know the male teachers, go out after school drinking with them, ask thai teachers to teach you thai, start up an after school club (movies, cartoons, map reading) anything as long as the instruction language is in English it will work and have value.

I set up a science club, doing simple experiments, elephant toothpaste, menthos and coke etc. Students and teachers loved it.

Good luck

[BlackArtemis]

I too had no problem with respect.

If you dress clean, show up on time, be prepared, and are always polite 90% of Thai teachers will be respectful of you.

Come in hung over one time and expect to never regain it though.

[otherstuff1957]

^ very good point! I always tell new teachers to be neat, punctual, polite and prepared for the first two months or so on the job. Once you've established a good reputation though, you can pretty much get away with murder . As for the OP:

Language Schools: pay usually ranges from 25K to 40K, you will usually teach adults and will almost never have early morning classes. Language Schools are usually not concerned with your qualifications, though that may be changing now. On the downside, you will usually have to work weekends and evenings and will usually not have any vacation pay. Rumors have it that many Language schools are cutting back and even going out of business. Also, many Language Schools act as agents for Government Schools, which basically means that you will have all the disadvantages of both types of schools with none of the advantages.

International Schools: top pay and benefits, though you will have to work hard to get them! Unless you are a qualified teacher from an English speaking country with at least two years experience, you will have a very hard time getting a job at a real International School. I say real because there are a number of schools which claim to be international, but will hire any warm body off the street and are run by the owner's whim. I've had a number of friends who have run away from jobs at these schools!

Bilingual Schools: these are a mixed bag. The best are close to International standards, the worst are 'teachers' sweatshops'. Also many Government Schools have EP programs which can be comparable to Bilingual Schools.

Government Schools: I've had some very good experiences with Government Schools. If you make an effort to do a good job, they will generally appreciate you and treat you very well. The downsides: low pay, long hours, large class sizes, many disinterested or unruly students, often no air-conditioning, some Thai teachers can be hostile or resentful and the directors (who are usually transferred around every 2 to 4 years) run the schools like their own private fiefdoms.

[BlackArtemis]

Government Schools: I've had some very good experiences with Government Schools. If you make an effort to do a good job, they will generally appreciate you and treat you very well. The downsides: low pay, long hours, large class sizes, many disinterested or unruly students, often no air-conditioning, some Thai teachers can be hostile or resentful and the directors (who are usually transferred around every 2 to 4 years) run the schools like their own private fiefdoms.

The first part varies, as with my experience it was quite the opposite. However, the last part is 100% true and you and yout co-workers will be tearing out you hair at the asinine things that go on due to this until you reach your breaking point. That's when you either quit or learn to accept the system.

[PeaceBlondie]

Most of the govt. and private schools here are chronically and tragically mismanaged. Honest Thai teachers admit it. Farang are mistreated worst. After 2 years I gave up. If you can't get reasonable terms within a year or two, quit.