Permanent Residency

[torrenova]

I know that if I got a WP and paid taxes and had 3 consecutive extensions based on my WP then I could apply for PR.

I can get an extension of stay based upon my child and money in the bank. No problems there. If I were to extend that for 3 years would that qualify me for that part of the requirement ?

If I were to own shares in a company which paid taxes but did not pay me a salary and thus I had no WP, would I qualify for the tax requirement on the basis of tax I would have to pay on dividends received from the company I own shares in ?

[monty]

Not entirely sure, but doubtful as one of the requirements is to work and pay taxes within Thailand, preferably on a rather decent income as well.

However, the whole process is based on points, with points given for each requirement you fulfill and how well you fulfill it.

Hence not sure that not having the WP/taxes would completely exclude you.

Add to that the complete reluctancy to issue PR the last 4 years (many applicants with approval, but none actually issued).

[torrenova]

Not entirely sure, but doubtful as one of the requirements is to work and pay taxes within Thailand, preferably on a rather decent income as well.

However, the whole process is based on points, with points given for each requirement you fulfill and how well you fulfill it.

Hence not sure that not having the WP/taxes would completely exclude you.

Add to that the complete reluctancy to issue PR the last 4 years (many applicants with approval, but none actually issued).

But if I received dividends in Thailand from a Thai company (which I owned, at least in part), then I would have a tax liability and would be paying tax. The income amount seems to be tax on 80k a month or tax of 100k a year, halved if married.

I would be paying tax, though some of it would come from credits on the dividends (if Thailand works this way) and paying 100k a year is no issue.

In the end, I don't see much of a difference, just less paperwork and fewer hoops to jump through.

[monty]

Might work, if the tax slips are in your name.

The general idea is to be an "asset" for Thailand....

[samran]

As far as I know, there is no taxes on dividends in Thailand.

[DegenFarang]

As far as I know, there is no taxes on dividends in Thailand.

There are no capital gains taxes, I'm pretty sure there are taxes on dividends.

[samran]

As far as I know, there is no taxes on dividends in Thailand.

There are no capital gains taxes, I'm pretty sure there are taxes on dividends.

sorry, you are correct.

[MikeyIdea]

Documents that are required to get residency application approved can be found here - http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/ba...?page=residence

It's a points system. There are many areas that contribute to the final score, I don't know them all but both Salary and Tax do contribute, separately. I understand it as if you pay tax on dividends then you do indeed have to submit tax returns and would have P.N.D.91 OR P.N.D.90 (in your name), 50 tawi (in your name, must match P.N.D.) and receipts. -> Yes, you will get points for tax. You would score zero on salary though.

Documentation specifically state work permit for all areas there is information about. There is a fuzzy point 5 - Extra circumstances on a case by case basis with no information. Now that would probably be a difficult path to go.

Sorry, I don't think what you suggest is doable. You most likely need 80,000 bath per month salary for 3 years, 3 one year visa extensions, work permit in the same company for the last year

The girls down at the residency section are very friendly and helpful. I suggest to go down there and ask them, they will tell you what your options are

[Arkady]

As far as I know, there is no taxes on dividends in Thailand.

There are no capital gains taxes, I'm pretty sure there are taxes on dividends.

There are taxes on both capital gains and dividends in Thailand. Capital gains are taxed as if they were normal income with no allowance made for inflation indexing. However, there is one very important exemption which is capital gains accruing to individual investors from stocks listed on the SET. Companies pay tax on gains from listed stocks at their normal corporate income tax rate. Dividends are taxed at a flat rate of 10%. Investors can choose to either accept that rate and exclude dividend from their tax returns or declare their dividends in the hope of a rebate of some of the 10% tax. The formula for calculating the rebate is virtually incomprehensible but depends on the variables of the individual's top marginal rate of tax and the tax rate of the company paying the dividend. Foreign residents are also entitled to apply for the rebate but dividends paid by stocks held through non-voting depository receipts (NVDRs) are no longer eligible. The stocks must be held directly in the taxpayer's name. Those with other income in addition to salary, including those applying for a rebate on dividend tax, fill out the PND 90 tax return form, whereas those with only salary income to declare fill out PND 91.

[pmhmaster]

...You most likely need 80,000 bath per month salary for 3 years, 3 one year visa extensions, work permit in the same company for the last year...

Does this 80,000 bath per month salary regulation apply to total earnings before tax? e.g. having a lower base salary but with some bonus and allowance additions I wonder if one is qualified or not.

[monty]

...You most likely need 80,000 bath per month salary for 3 years, 3 one year visa extensions, work permit in the same company for the last year...

Does this 80,000 bath per month salary regulation apply to total earnings before tax? e.g. having a lower base salary but with some bonus and allowance additions I wonder if one is qualified or not.

Not sure, but I guess they can be flexible on salary/taxes. The most important is that you have held a steady well paying job for the last 3+ years.

The whole application is points based, so qualifying on job/employment, but lowish taxes likely will not disqualify you if you meet all other requirements...

[GarryP]

Has anyone tried to obtain or heard of any cases of obtaining PR based on being under patronage of a Thai national child? For example, in my case, my biological child will soon be earning his own living and I will be 50 in a few more years. As long as we are living together and he is earning the minimum amount, I would assume it should be quite straight forward and WP would not be an issue.

[monty]

Has anyone tried to obtain or heard of any cases of obtaining PR based on being under patronage of a Thai national child? For example, in my case, my biological child will soon be earning his own living and I will be 50 in a few more years. As long as we are living together and he is earning the minimum amount, I would assume it should be quite straight forward and WP would not be an issue.

I doubt it.

It is you who are applying for PR, so it is you who has to be contributing taxes, not your son!

[GarryP]

Has anyone tried to obtain or heard of any cases of obtaining PR based on being under patronage of a Thai national child? For example, in my case, my biological child will soon be earning his own living and I will be 50 in a few more years. As long as we are living together and he is earning the minimum amount, I would assume it should be quite straight forward and WP would not be an issue.

I doubt it.

It is you who are applying for PR, so it is you who has to be contributing taxes, not your son!

It is my understanding from the information provided on the immigration website that some one who is over 50 can apply for PR based upon being supported by their Thai (biological) child, provided their child has an income of 30 or 35k per month (I forget which). Thus, the applicant would not need to prove income but the child would.

[Arkady]

Has anyone tried to obtain or heard of any cases of obtaining PR based on being under patronage of a Thai national child? For example, in my case, my biological child will soon be earning his own living and I will be 50 in a few more years. As long as we are living together and he is earning the minimum amount, I would assume it should be quite straight forward and WP would not be an issue.

I doubt it.

It is you who are applying for PR, so it is you who has to be contributing taxes, not your son!

It is my understanding from the information provided on the immigration website that some one who is over 50 can apply for PR based upon being supported by their Thai (biological) child, provided their child has an income of 30 or 35k per month (I forget which). Thus, the applicant would not need to prove income but the child would.

The category of supporting a Thai national wife or child does certainly exist and I think, as you say, even being supported by them, but I have never heard of PR actually being issued to that category. Has anyone else? I remember that some one posted in Camerata's guide to PR (see that thread in TV)that he had actually filed an application based on supporting Thai family without a job in Thailand, although he said that Immigration initially tried to refuse to accept it. A lot of people ask about this category but I think that, in practical terms, it is probably a non-starter. The authorities seem to put too weighting on applicants having a steady job that in someway contributes to Thai society to be willing to entertain these applications. But don't just take my word for it. Get yourself over to Immigration and ask the staff in the PR applications section about your chances. They will probably tell you straight. It is an awful lot of work to assemble all the documents to apply for PR and it now seems to many take years to process with a risk that they might change the rules and tip all the pending applications in the trash anyway. Best to make you sure you are in with a chance before going to all the trouble.

[WarpSpeed]

So let me get this straight? If a person has been here working with the same company for 3 or more years consecutively they can then file for PR? My Mrs. easily qualifies for that if you could indulge my ignorance what are some of the advantages? How does it effect her visa, reporting etc.? She's Chinese BTW if that makes any difference?

[Arkady]

So let me get this straight? If a person has been here working with the same company for 3 or more years consecutively they can then file for PR? My Mrs. easily qualifies for that if you could indulge my ignorance what are some of the advantages? How does it effect her visa, reporting etc.? She's Chinese BTW if that makes any difference?

Advantages would be that she could stay in Thailand permanently without hassle, whether she has a job or not as long as she complies with some very basic requirements, i.e. not be declared insane, commit a criminal offense or enter Thailand with an expired re-entry visa. Work permit is still required but is more of a formality and the employing company needs no Thai employees to qualify. You need to get a re-entry visa annually, if you want to travel. This is also a formality and there is no need to have one, if you don't want to leave the country. You need to get your alien book endorsed at your local police station every 5-8 years - another formality. She is eligible for a gun permit. That 's about it. It is an onerous process which currently takes years and there is little point in going through it, unless she intends to make Thailand her permanent home and eventually retire here. A lot of the advantage is really for retired people who are no longer on work permits as it is lot easier and more secure than retirement visas for which the rules change constantly. It also comes in very handy for people who unexpectedly lose their jobs but want to stay in Thailand. At a traumatic moment like that the last thing you want is to be suddenly forced into visa runs and have difficulty buying things like a post paid phone, a car or renting an apartment. But each to his own. I have heard many people say over years things like why would you ever want PR or Thai nationality. It depends on personal circumstances and preferences.

[WarpSpeed]

Thanks for the reply, I asked her and she said it is a real pain and costs plenty of tea money though one thing she said is it costs like 100,000b annually but she is not very good with understanding these details and I didn't see that issue pertaining to her and didn't fully understand what she was talking about nor did she probably if history is any determination, but in the sense of not having to leave should she loose her job that is a huge advantage and piece of mind in our case since we are from different parts of the world with children and no visas to go anywhere else at this point nor way to do it...

I am going to talk with her about this in more detail and I think her company's HR dept which has strong connections with immigration could possibly help her with this, it may be well worth it in the end in our case..

One other thing, currently my visa and our children's rides hers so if she loses her job but has PR would it extend to us just as her current visa does? Is there a link to confirm and reference this somewhere? Not that I want to stay here one day longer then necessary if we have no income but there will be enough scrambling to do in short order for all of us if we must leave immediately and all go in different directions, so time would be the key..

[Mario2008]

One other thing, currently my visa and our children's rides hers so if she loses her job but has PR would it extend to us just as her current visa does? Is there a link to confirm and reference this somewhere? Not that I want to stay here one day longer then necessary if we have no income but there will be enough scrambling to do in short order for all of us if we must leave immediately and allgo in different directions, so time would be the key..

You would apply for an extension under 2.19 of police order 777/2551:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a70477-.html

[fergus]

Always, always so much misinformation about PR. 80,000 baht salary for three years? Tea money?

I did mine a couple of years back and I certainly wasn't on 80,000 per year (50K). And the tea money, bribes, etc are a crock. All above board and if you satisfy the requirements you'll get it. I did it myself (with the missus) and I got it.

If you're interested and you'll think you've got a chance my advise is just go ahead and put it in.

And despite what people say, there is a big advantage: you have a permanent visa and are pretty well immune from future immigration changes.

[WarpSpeed]

^^&^Cheers for that...^ You know rumors and all that it's always a good idea though to have an idea what you're up against before going forward, how long did it take you to get it? I've heard years in some cases? Though I can't imagine why except TIT...

[Camelot]

Another advantage of PR is there is no need to do 90-day reporting. In fact if you don't leave the country, you never have to go near the Immigration Dept again. You've passed all their tests and they have nothing more to throw at you. You've earned the break.

Your passport will be completely blank if you don't leave the country (endorsements are stamped into the residence permit book). That can raise eyebrows if a bank or government agency asks to check it. That's why it's a good idea to keep photocopies handy of your police and residence books.

[stbkk]

Always, always so much misinformation about PR. 80,000 baht salary for three years? Tea money?

I did mine a couple of years back and I certainly wasn't on 80,000 per year (50K). And the tea money, bribes, etc are a crock. All above board and if you satisfy the requirements you'll get it. I did it myself (with the missus) and I got it.

If you're interested and you'll think you've got a chance my advise is just go ahead and put it in.

And despite what people say, there is a big advantage: you have a permanent visa and are pretty well immune from future immigration changes.

I also made the application myself with the wife's help, and although its a bit of leg work nothing is very difficult.

By the way, when you say 'a couple of years back' what year exactly did you apply? I applied in 2006, and have heard nothing since!