Dowry

[freeman]

Anybody can update me abour dowry that Thai families ask for?

How much is it? What is it?

[Thomas_Merton]

Anybody can update me abour dowry that Thai families ask for?

How much is it? What is it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would respectfully suggest you do a search in Thai Visa forum after the word "dowry".

You will find there are at least 3 pages of threads discussing this subject from every conceivable angle.

[freeman]

Anybody can update me abour dowry that Thai families ask for?

How much is it? What is it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would respectfully suggest you do a search in Thai Visa forum after the word "dowry".

You will find there are at least 3 pages of threads discussing this subject from every conceivable angle.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thx. Thomas . Good Idea.

[andy50]

its money/ gold that is asked from you by the parents for their daughter ,

sometimes they keep it, sometimes they give some /all of it back to you after the wedding

the amount varys, depending on how well off the family are-- if you marry a "hi-so" lady i will cost you, on the other hand if you marry a worn out bar girl ,you shouldnt expect to pay much at all

if your woman has been marryied before, you dont pay anything as a dowry will already have been payed

the whole thing is a joke as far as i can see but thats just imho! either way you get screwed ,good luck if you are getting married ,you will need it !

[freeman]

its money/ gold that is asked from you by the parents for their daughter ,

sometimes they keep it, sometimes they give some /all of it back to you after the wedding

the amount varys, depending on how well off the family are-- if you marry a "hi-so" lady i will cost you, on the other hand if you marry a worn out bar girl ,you shouldnt expect to pay much at all

if your woman has been marryied before, you dont pay anything as a dowry will already have been payed

the whole thing is a joke as far as i can see  but thats just imho! either way you get screwed ,good luck if you are getting married ,you will need it !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

she is an educated girl holding a university degree and now working as an administrator and her family are so-so. not rich living in bangkok.

Can you guess about the amount they will ask?

[pluto_manibo]

It depends on how much they think you are worth!

[bkkmadness]

Pluto's made a fair point. Like paying for most things in Thailand the first price they give you is not always the correct one

You may need to do some bargaining here.

I would've thought it would be in the region of 200 000 though?

[britmaveric]

Forget a dowery- it's BS.

[brianbrain]

Pluto's made a fair point.  Like paying for most things in Thailand the first price they give you is not always the correct one

You may need to do some bargaining here.

I would've thought it would be in the region of 200 000 though?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no idea what is a "usual price" but that sounds too high. Is this supposed to be a gift of thanks or a purchase? 200K seems more like an outright purchase and not something I'd be happy with. If I had to choose between giving the Thai inlaws 200K to burn or keeping the money to invest in the future of my family, I know which I'd choose.

[brianbrain]

Forget a dowery- it's BS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. Giving a large sum of money to any Thai person can only be asking for trouble, and will surely set yourself up for future headaches. If marrying the daughter depends on money, then I'd say back away now. Presumably, this is not the case with the OP, and I suggest he just offers to pay for the wedding.

[bkkmadness]

Pluto's made a fair point.  Like paying for most things in Thailand the first price they give you is not always the correct one

You may need to do some bargaining here.

I would've thought it would be in the region of 200 000 though?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no idea what is a "usual price" but that sounds too high. Is this supposed to be a gift of thanks or a purchase? 200K seems more like an outright purchase and not something I'd be happy with. If I had to choose between giving the Thai inlaws 200K to burn or keeping the money to invest in the future of my family, I know which I'd choose.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A lot of the dowry thing is about giving the family face, and you can expect a lot of it back for investment in the family anyway. Thing is, with not paying the dowry you might not have any future inlaws or your wife.

Uni educated girl, family from Bangkok so got a bit more an average farming family in Issan I would have thought, 200 K seems about right.

I know what people mean by the BS thing, and it depends on the family I suppose whether you get the cash back or not, but the fact is a dowry is expected by a lot of families. Some will give it back to you, some will have a new plasma tv on your next visit to the house.

In my case though I'm not married I don't need to pay a dowry if I get married to my gf, despite being uni eductated and all that, coz she don't believe in it and her family are not bothered as long as she is happy.

It really goes on a person by person, family by family basis.

[johng]

Ask dereklev he was happy to pay

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...pic=26381&st=90

[Heng]

its money/ gold that is asked from you by the parents for their daughter ,

sometimes they keep it, sometimes they give some /all of it back to you after the wedding

And sometimes you're given all of it back "plus interest" so to speak. IMO, if they ask any amount, it's impolite/improper. The "ask" that decent folk say is "nothing, it's up to the couple." Then it's whatever you want to put down, just for show. Traditionally, if the groom in question wasn't to the liking of the bride's family, only then would a ridiculous amount + ring + property be asked for.

[cdnvic]

This has been covered many many times:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...25606&hl=dowery

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...17576&hl=dowery

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...16397&hl=dowery

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=4968&hl=dowery

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=1771&hl=dowery

I think that'll get you up to date.

cv

[Johpa]

Forget a dowery- it's BS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we suggesting that Thai culture is BS? I mean it is a core part of Thai cultire and Thai do not see it as BS. Perhaps Thailand is not the place for those how feel this way.

Traditionally one would send a Phu Yai to the bride's house to help negotiate the dowery. This might be an elder family member or a village elder. Being a Farang removed a few steps from traditional Thai culture you will have to rely upon the bride for advice and it serves as a good litnus test. She should be willing to provide her family with an honorable dowery that does not cause financial hardship on her new family, that being the groom and her. I would think that B200,000 is a very fair amount these days, almost cheap.

[No beleeeeve!]

A dowry is an antiquated (sp) con that Thai families still try and pull under the guise of "culture" to see if the farang will fall for it. Most guys do fall for it still.

Also, it is an another angle where the foreigner has to abandon 100% of his culture and accept 100% of the Thai culture. It should be a compromise somewhere in the middle. A dowry is no compromise, it is a scam.

Don't pay it. Just say it is an insult from your culture to pay for a wife. Plus you will be taking care of her for the rest of your life (no matter what job she has, you are still expected to support her AND her family) so the family should be paying YOU! I know they won't, just being sarcastic.

If you tell her no, and she leaves you, then better to learn now that she is after your money than later. And it is about money, the whole saving face is just an excuse. They will get over the whole face thing in due time.

[Totster]

A dowry is an antiquated (sp) con that Thai families still try and pull under the guise of "culture" to see if the farang will fall for it.  Most guys do fall for it still.

Also, it is an another angle where the foreigner has to abandon 100% of his culture and accept 100% of the Thai culture.  It should be a compromise somewhere in the middle.  A dowry is no compromise, it is a scam.

Don't pay it.  Just say it is an insult from your culture to pay for a wife.  Plus you will be taking care of her for the rest of your life (no matter what job she has, you are still expected to support her AND her family) so the family should be paying YOU! I know they won't, just being sarcastic.

If you tell her no, and she leaves you, then better to learn now that she is after your money than later.  And it is about money, the whole saving face is just an excuse.  They will get over the whole face thing in due time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not just the Farang who pay.... The Thais do also, seen it many times... so that's one inaccuracy in your post..... in fact most of your post is inaccurate...

Totster

[Khutan]

Don't pay it.  Just say it is an insult from your culture to pay for a wife. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats right, and for a few dollars

from your culture

your wife, who you trust, respect and want to spend the rest of your life with can enjoy a little bit of respect from her culture.

Its a question of what you want and how you negotiate it. Normally a family will negotiate whats happening, and if you end up paying alot of money, so what. If you look around you will see most of the world pay a bride-price in some way or another.

[cdnvic]

A dowry is an antiquated (sp) con that Thai families still try and pull under the guise of "culture" to see if the farang will fall for it.  Most guys do fall for it still.

My MIL didn't insist on any dowery as she knew it didn't go over well in my culture (we did a token offering at the ceremony). Her Thai son-in-laws were not so lucky.

It's something that was going on years before any farung even got here so your explanation doesn't wash.

cv

[bbtali]

A dowry is an antiquated (sp) con that Thai families still try and pull under the guise of "culture" to see if the farang will fall for it.  Most guys do fall for it still.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My MIL didn't insist on any dowery as she knew it didn't go over well in my culture (we did a token offering at the ceremony). Her Thai son-in-laws were not so lucky.

It's something that was going on years before any farung even got here so your explanation doesn't wash.

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes and is a way of showing the respect for the bride and family from the groom. So all those who refuse to pay come across as having no respect for the bride or her family in the eyes of any Thai.

[johng]

So all those who refuse to pay come across as having no respect for the bride or her family in the eyes of any Thai.

What if the bride to be has been married before ??? what if she allready has children from another marriage ?? is it still expected that a dowry will be paid ??

How many times can she be sold ??

Some Thais take the piss and ask for stupid amounts of money for a dowry !!!!

maybe because they don't want their daughter to marry that particular man

or (most likely) because they are just plain gready.

It's such a stupid idea to pay a dowrey in this day and age (where's my asbestos suit)

Edited May 1, 2005 by johng

[andy50]

the one thing one could do, is marry a woman with no parents ,perhaps an older model, whose parents have died of old age , dowrey ploblem solved ! see? arnt i clever !

[meemiathai]

Don't pay it.  Just say it is an insult from your culture to pay for a wife.  Plus you will be taking care of her for the rest of your life (no matter what job she has, you are still expected to support her AND her family) so the family should be paying YOU! I know they won't, just being sarcastic.

What makes you think supporting her AND her family in the future should be done but paying a dowry is wrong?? Difficult to understand your point.

[meemiathai]

A dowry is no compromise, it is a scam.

In my case, I don't see the 170000 baht dowry I gave as a scam.

In your case, you have every right to think what is right or wrong. No comments from my part.

[meemiathai]

What if the bride to be has been married before ??? what if she allready has children from another marriage ?? is it still expected that a dowry will be paid ??

How many times can she be sold ??

Why would people marry her???

[snoophound]

I think its an outmoded thing.

The reality is if you marry in thai you will be helping the family financialy anyway.

My missuses daughter who is aust thai is marrying a thai boy,he very sheepishsly came and asked the missus about what she wanted for a dowry and the ,missus said just treat my daughter well....his parents who are in BKK were very relieved.

Forget a dowery- it's BS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we suggesting that Thai culture is BS? I mean it is a core part of Thai cultire and Thai do not see it as BS. Perhaps Thailand is not the place for those how feel this way.

Traditionally one would send a Phu Yai to the bride's house to help negotiate the dowery. This might be an elder family member or a village elder. Being a Farang removed a few steps from traditional Thai culture you will have to rely upon the bride for advice and it serves as a good litnus test. She should be willing to provide her family with an honorable dowery that does not cause financial hardship on her new family, that being the groom and her. I would think that B200,000 is a very fair amount these days, almost cheap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[siamesekitty]

It frustrates me to see that so many non-Thais view "sin sod" as a buy-sell issue. The use of the words "pay" and "cost" offends me even when used by the guys who mean well who say that they were willing to "pay" this "cheap price" for their bride's honor. The thing is, I have always viewed it as a gift to be "given" as a token of respect rather than "paid".

As a Thai, and a woman at that, I just want to point out a few things, in hopes of helping explain the mentality behind this custom:

- From what I understood, sin sod was a way for the groom to show that he can provide for his bride. In other words, it proves that he is well-off, and the newlyweds will not starve to death later on. It is also to impress the wedding guests.

- From what I understood, the sin sod is not initially demanded by the bride's family. The groom's parents are the ones who are supposed to offer it, though the bride's parents may request more if they feel it is an insultingly meagre amount. They might also request a ridiculously high amount as a deterrent (read - if you can't afford this, you're not good enough for our dear daughter; we do not want her to fall upon hard times living with a bum like you)

- In this modern age, traditional customs might not always be followed (esp. in relationships with non-Thais), but the custom of sin sod is still alive in many Thai weddings, in fact nearly all the ones I've known of. It's still a custom, like farangs buying diamond engagement rings. Not always necessary in your society, people don't always get married, much less engaged, but isn't it still very important for a lot of people? How would a woman in your culture feel if a guy proposed to her.. but had no engagement ring to offer? And why isn't the ring considered "payment" for her becoming his wife?

- With some couples, the groom is not from a well-off family, and cannot put up a sin sod sufficiently large enough to impress the wedding guests. In these cases, sometimes the bride's family actually provides the money that is to be used for the ceremony (without telling the guests of course). After the wedding they may take it back or perhaps give it to the couple to help start off their new life together.

- It's not always a one-way thing. Sometimes the bride's family (and/or the groom's family) give some land or other valuables as gifts to the couple as well. I have seen actual land title deeds being given as a part of the ceremony.

- x00,000 baht is not considered ridiculously high. 6, 7 or even 8 -digit figures are possible. The higher it is, the higher it proves the groom's status to be. (Try finding out the sin sod for those really hi-so weddings, you'll be shocked at what is offered!)

This is just what I understand of the custom, and from what I've seen at various weddings of family and acquaintances, both in Thailand and at Thai weddings abroad. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

Before visiting this forum it had never even occurred to me that non-Thais would even feel offended by this, and view it as a financial transaction for wife-purchasing. It had always seemed an integral part of the wedding to me.

I do realize that in a lot of cases the farang is played for a sucker. This post is just to try to clarify reasons for observing the custom, for those who seem to think the whole thing is just a scam to extort money from hapless "wife-buying" farangs. The custom IS there in our culture, the issue is whether the lady you're marrying is observing tradition or was just planning to bleed you dry in the first place.

Edited May 2, 2005 by siamesekitty

[Khutan]

You are so correct, many of your points I just nodded agreement with, this one sticks out the most.

- x00,000 baht is not considered ridiculously high. 6, 7 or even 8 -digit figures are possible. The higher it is, the higher it proves the groom's status to be. (Try finding out the sin sod for those really hi-so weddings, you'll be shocked at what is offered!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was a hi-so wedding a few months ago and it was something like 2 million.

[RamdomChances]

Siameskitty's post is spot on. I've only ever been to 2 "falang" thai marriges (one was mine) but hundredes of thai/thai ones and they always pay/show sin sod.

[Nordlys]

It frustrates me to see that so many non-Thais view "sin sod" as a buy-sell issue. The use of the words "pay" and "cost" offends me even when used by the guys who mean well who say that they were willing to "pay" this "cheap price" for their bride's honor. The thing is, I have always viewed it as a gift to be "given" as a token of respect rather than "paid".

As a Thai, and a woman at that, I just want to point out a few things, in hopes of helping explain the mentality behind this custom:

- From what I understood, sin sod was a way for the groom to show that he can provide for his bride. In other words, it proves that he is well-off, and the newlyweds will not starve to death later on. It is also to impress the wedding guests.

- From what I understood, the sin sod is not initially demanded by the bride's family. The groom's parents are the ones who are supposed to offer it, though the bride's parents may request more if they feel it is an insultingly meagre amount. They might also request a ridiculously high amount as a deterrent (read - if you can't afford this, you're not good enough for our dear daughter; we do not want her to fall upon hard times living with a bum like you)

- In this modern age, traditional customs might not always be followed (esp. in relationships with non-Thais), but the custom of sin sod is still alive in many Thai weddings, in fact nearly all the ones I've known of. It's still a custom, like farangs buying diamond engagement rings. Not always necessary in your society, people don't always get married, much less engaged, but isn't it still very important for a lot of people? How would a woman in your culture feel if a guy proposed to her.. but had no engagement ring to offer? And why isn't the ring considered "payment" for her becoming his wife?

- With some couples, the groom is not from a well-off family, and cannot put up a sin sod sufficiently large enough to impress the wedding guests. In these cases, sometimes the bride's family actually provides the money that is to be used for the ceremony (without telling the guests of course). After the wedding they may take it back or perhaps give it to the couple to help start off their new life together.

- It's not always a one-way thing. Sometimes the bride's family (and/or the groom's family) give some land or other valuables as gifts to the couple as well. I have seen actual land title deeds being given as a part of the ceremony.

- x00,000 baht is not considered ridiculously high. 6, 7 or even 8 -digit figures are possible. The higher it is, the higher it proves the groom's status to be. (Try finding out the sin sod for those really hi-so weddings, you'll be shocked at what is offered!)

This is just what I understand of the custom, and from what I've seen at various weddings of family and acquaintances, both in Thailand and at Thai weddings abroad. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong on any of this.

Before visiting this forum it had never even occurred to me that non-Thais would even feel offended by this, and view it as a financial transaction for wife-purchasing. It had always seemed an integral part of the wedding to me.

I do realize that in a lot of cases the farang is played for a sucker. This post is just to try to clarify reasons for observing the custom, for those who seem to think the whole thing is just a scam to extort money from hapless "wife-buying" farangs. The custom IS there in our culture, the issue is whether the lady you're marrying is observing tradition or was just planning to bleed you dry in the first place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can't agree more with siamesekitty.

As for me when I and my wife got married, my mother has talked to my MIL into agreeing that neither myself nor my parents pay her "sin sod", but instead suggested that the money should be spent for us two and that my parents would buy us a condominium for us to move in after the wedding (instead of paying her "sin sod"), and my MIL happily accepted that (well my wife was 39 when we got married, MIL might have thought her daughter wouldn't have another chance if she misses me). The only condition my MIL had for me was wedding at Catholic church. My parents and my wife's family agreed on splitting the cost of church wedding and bridal dinner/party at a hotel, but "sai song" (gratuity in English?) money we received from guests was more than enough to cover all these expenses.