The Walrus Guide To Getting Your Retirement Visa

[walrus]

You're over 50, you've been legally working in Thailand for several years, and now you want to switch to a long stay retirement visa because Thailand is such a beautiful country and the locals are so friendly, perhaps you've even married one of them. And you can't contemplate returning to your home country, because it's just not the same any more and you wouldn’t be happy there. Get yourself a coffee and a soft cushion, and read on.

There are numerous pitfalls that can trap the unwary and lead you to waste time and money in pursuing this dream. I've experienced many of them and here's my guide to getting that retirement visa you so badly want and deserve, considering how much you've already invested in the Kingdom.

Firstly, you might think that because you're here already, it should be straightforward to 'convert' your existing non-immigrant B visa to a retirement OA visa. Well, it isn't. There are timing issues, there may be multiple immigration offices involved depending on where you worked and want to retire, they interpret the guidelines differently, and you can be sure that multiple trips and lots of paperwork, not to mention cash, will be required. And sometimes, it seems that those highly-ranked immigration officials are conspiring against you to thwart your plans by inventing new rules on the fly that are not written down anywhere.

If you don't want to leave the Kingdom, you can apply for an extension of stay based on retirement. In order to be considered, you will need to show that you have already canceled your work permit and your B visa on your last day of work. These two processes must be done on the same day or you will be liable for a 'permit overstay' fine of 500 Baht per day. If your foreign wife is dependent on your visa then that doubles to 1,000 Baht per day. If you cancel your work permit on a Monday, but don't cancel the visa until Wednesday, the kind officials at Chaengwattana will charge you a fine of 3,000 Baht because that is three days each, isn't it?

The work permit must be canceled at the Department of Employment, Ministry of Labor. The B visa must be canceled at the immigration office that issued it. That probably means the new office emporium at Chaengwattana Road which has replaced the old Bangkok office at Soi Suan Plu. This new office is about the size of a premier league football stadium but inside it there is nothing but space, it's a hollow shell. It seems to have been designed to occupy the maximum possible floor area - not exactly in line with His Majesty's sufficiency principles. But I digress. You already have two places to run to on this important morning as you leave your secure status of employed and registered worker to the dodgy limbo land that occupies the unchartered territory between one visa and the next. You don't have time to worry about architectural efficiency.

Did I mention that the new extension you seek must also be granted on the very same day that you canceled the old visa? Otherwise you will be guilty of overstaying your residency, a serious crime that can lead to arrest and fines which accumulate at 500 Baht per day per person, with a maximum of 20,000 Baht. You can only avoid this by purchasing a 7-day visa extension at your local immigration office, for a mere 1,900 Baht. So now you have potentially three places to run around on this important and unforgettable day - the Department of Employment, the immigration office that issued your business visa, and the immigration office for the province in which you wish to be resident for your retirement. Depending on traffic that could occupy a whole day in itself!

Well before you get to this stage, you'd better have organized all the paperwork that you need to bring on what I shall call ‘V’ day. According to the chart on the wall of my local immigration office, it's not so daunting, just a letter from the bank stating your savings in excess of 800,000 Baht (or a letter from your embassy proving income of at least 65,000 Baht per month), a completed visa application form, photos, medical certificate, valid passport, and a marriage certificate if the spouse is a dependent. What it doesn’t say is that if you show savings in your bank account, it needs to be there for 3 months before you apply.

On my first exploratory visit I brought the documents as advertised, together with a positive attitude, clean shirt, polite behavior, and my (also foreign) wife. As I put the documents on the table I could already hear a sharp intake of breath from the well-groomed lady squadron leader who was serving us. She picked up the letter from the bank with attached monthly statements and called over a male police captain supervisor in uniform, who asked me where my bank book was. I told him that the money was held in my current account, and this was verified by the bank and the monthly statements showed clearly it had been there for over 3 months. In this case, said the captain, you must get every copy of your statements stamped and signed by the bank, and the letter must not be more than 7 days old, so you will need a new letter.

I can find nowhere where this is written down, so here is:

Lesson One: put your retirement funds into a savings account on day one, and get your passbook stamped regularly to show the money is there every month for at least 3 months.

I tried smiling at the squadron leader/major general official, but it was no use. She wouldn't budge. We left and came back a few days later with a fresh letter from the bank (another 200 baht and one-hour wait) and all the statements stamped. The bank manager didn’t like this request and said he never did it for anybody. But now feeling more confident, I brandished the new set of documents to the wing-commander who sat at the next desk to the squadron leader we’d met previously. She studied the application form and called over the police captain to help, who’d already spotted us and was heading our way.

“You must show your lease agreement!”, he announced. “You rent a house, right?” Yes, we asserted. “And you have a contract, right?” I could see where this was leading. “We need to see a copy of the lease agreement”. “That’s not included in the list of documents on your wall chart”, I ventured. “Why do you need it?” “We need to know your residential address”, he replied. “Well that is verified on my signed bank statements, on my driving licence, and on another official letter I have here from the government”, I offered politely. “We have lived at the same address for many years now.”

Now he was starting to get cross. “We need to see who the owner is and that they pay the tax”, he snapped. Since when, I wondered silently, is the Immigration department responsible for tax revenue collection?

Lesson Two: have your house rental agreement with you, just in case. But you might want to warn your landlord/lady before showing it so he/she is not caught off-guard.

As we left the immigration office, I happened to notice a large gift-wrapped box being delivered and opened. An array of perfumed soaps were distributed to the staff to the apparent satisfaction of the female squadron leader and her wing-commander. The male police captain was not impressed and reminded me sharply that I must cancel my existing work permit and visa at Chaengwattana before he could process our application.

Lesson Three: consider making an appropriate gesture of friendship towards the highly ranked and hard-working officials who toil each day on a lowly salary to help foreigners enter and stay in the Kingdom.

We returned on ‘V’ day about a week later, bringing a signed copy of the house lease agreement in Thai language, the updated bank letter and statements, forms, photos, and marriage certificate. That same morning we had canceled our visas, and paid the fine for having already canceled the work permit two days previously. I felt optimistic, knowing that we had done all the groundwork and would benefit from a smooth processing of our application. It was our third trip to the local immigration office and we knew all the faces.

This time we approached the chief’s desk first. He studied all the papers and seemed to be satisfied. He asked a few questions and then handed us over to his police captain sergeant-major general for processing. Optimism evaporated. Within seconds, the uniformed commander-in-waiting pounced on the bank statements and announced triumphantly “You must have the money in a savings account!” “But”, I ventured, “we discussed this on our first visit and you told me it was ok if I had my current account statements stamped and signed by the bank”. “No”, he asserted, waving his finger at me, “I told you it must be in a savings account!”. And then, as if to rub salt into the wound, he exclaimed: “And it must be there for 90 days before you apply!”.

Stunned, we looked back at the chief for confirmation. Useless. He was already engaged in conversation with an attractive young Chinese lady seeking an extension. She appeared to be giving him her mobile number. It was futile to try and divert his attention. Meanwhile, his underling was unrepentant and immovable.

Lesson Four: Be Young and Attractive.

If you are still reading this, you’ll have realized by now that attempting to obtain your retirement extension in Thailand is a hit-and-miss affair that depends on the whims of individual immigration staff. What might be a breeze for one applicant can be a nightmare for others.

In our case, we found ourselves suddenly with no current visas, and no prospect of getting them renewed inside Thailand anytime soon. The officer seemed determined to prevent our application, for reasons we don’t understand. And the rules dictate that you must apply to your local immigration office, and so you can’t bypass one difficult officer by going elsewhere. We went home and booked flights out of the country that same evening.

Lesson Five: Don’t Even Bother Applying in Thailand

If you want my advice, save yourself a fortnight of stress, frustration, and uncertainty. Cancel your work permit and B visa, and plan to leave the Kingdom and return to your home country on the same day. No point going anywhere else - they won’t process a retirement visa elsewhere unless you can show you are a permanent resident.

Go to the Thai Embassy in your home country, with the documents you need, and apply for an OA long stay visa. Usually they won’t be fussy about the bank or the type of account you hold, though you still need the letter from the bank. You will also need a police record clearance. If you’ve been living in Thailand, you can get this from the Royal Thai Police on Rama 1 Road. Allow 3 weeks for processing and expect to have your fingerprints taken, along with a mugshot and the usual form-filling. They are polite and helpful, and there is no fee. You probably also need a medical certificate, although this no longer seems important inside Thailand. You should get a one-year single or multiple entry visa, though the actual length of stay is determined at the Immigration check-point on entry.

Don’t forget to make your 90 day reports after arrival in the Kingdom; if you live in Bangkok then they can be sent by post. Most local offices demand that you show up in person, also any dependent kids, even if you have to pull them out of school to comply. Our local office demands that you also bring a copy of your accommodation lease agreement.

Lesson Six: If your local office is like mine, consider relocating to Bangkok province. It’s less hassle.

Lesson Seven: Do you really want to retire in Thailand? It’s looking a lot less attractive these days. Your time and money could be better invested elsewhere.

Enjoy your stay,

Walrus.

Edited February 9, 2010 by walrus

[Tod Daniels]

In “shepherding” probably hundreds of people out to the old thai immigrations Suan Plu and now Changwattana, I have NEVER EVER had to 'hoop-jump' even anything remotely like the story you are relating. Sadly ALL my experience is in Bangkok, so perhaps none of it applies to your situation.

True going from a Type B visa & work permit to an extension of stay does require going to different places for different tasks, BUT if you've been on that type of visa for a while you know the inz and outz of it. You also had to deal with your foreign wife’s issues as well, but still. It certainly appeared to be quite the cluster-fuc_k if I might say so.

I am fully aware that people's personal experiences will vary, even if the two people experience the same situation at the same time. BUT, I think you’re painting with a much broader brush in this situation than it requires. Getting a year’s extension of stay based on retirement ONCE you meet all the criteria is neither a harrowing experience nor an overly time consuming one; especially as you are dealing with thai bureaucracy.

However with that being said I fully concede the individual immigrations offices scattered hither and yon around this country do operate more in autocratic mode than a collective one, again this being thailand it is certainly NOT unheard of.

Unless I am thick (a possibility ) I didn’t notice when reading this oh-so long post where you applied for your extension of stay. However in reading your other posts you mention Samut Prakan. I wish other people with experience dealing with that particular office would chime in and let us know how it’s working out there.

Given the plethora of information available on this forum about the way it needs to be done I am sorry you couldn't achieve your goals..

[monty]

Just to add, I don't think the title of the topic is fair either.

Retirement extensions almost never create problems, in your case it simply was the added confusion/extra requirements because of the ending employment extension stuff.

That one is indeed not user friendly, ending employment can be somewhat of a hassle, especially if you do not live in the same area as you work, making it it bit of a race around the clock getting stuff canceled and then getting the extension in one go!

The only thing not handled properly apparently was the info on what type of bank account the 800K has to be in.

[phetaroi]

And, maybe I'm just reading something into the OP that isn't there or isn't fair to assume, but I detect a really negative tone here, and I am wondering if that tone is why it became so complicated. Although I've yet to experience it, I've always been told keep it on the positive side...if you take it to the negative side in Thailand, you're the one that will suffer.

[Rama]

Retirement visa (extension of stay) and turning a B visa into a retirement visa is the easiest thing in Chiang Mai. Personal experience as well as the experience of many others here. You can even turn a tourist visa (NOT a 30 day visa on arrival) into a retirement visa easily here. There's something missing from this story.

[Soutpeel]

Retirement visa (extension of stay) and turning a B visa into a retirement visa is the easiest thing in Chiang Mai. Personal experience as well as the experience of many others here. You can even turn a tourist visa (NOT a 30 day visa on arrival) into a retirement visa easily here. There's something missing from this story.

Actually the OP is talking about an O-A visa, not an extension based on retirement, not the same animal

[Xangsamhua]

All replies noted and helpful, but still I think the OP has done a service in describing his own experience. Better to be warned and well-prepared than to assume everything's going to be a breeze. Hopefully, the experience will be much better than expected.

I'm looking at going through this process (in Bangkok) in the near future, so am interested in every experience that is reported. The message I'm getting from the OP's experience is that it might be a lot easier to get the visa back home, especially as I would be showing a monthly income statement rather than money held in a savings account.

[beechguy]

Retirement visa (extension of stay) and turning a B visa into a retirement visa is the easiest thing in Chiang Mai. Personal experience as well as the experience of many others here. You can even turn a tourist visa (NOT a 30 day visa on arrival) into a retirement visa easily here. There's something missing from this story.

Actually the OP is talking about an O-A visa, not an extension based on retirement, not the same animal

No, he must be talking about getting an extension of stay, you can't obtain an O-A within Thailand.

Edited February 9, 2010 by beechguy

[monty]

Retirement visa (extension of stay) and turning a B visa into a retirement visa is the easiest thing in Chiang Mai. Personal experience as well as the experience of many others here. You can even turn a tourist visa (NOT a 30 day visa on arrival) into a retirement visa easily here. There's something missing from this story.

Actually the OP is talking about an O-A visa, not an extension based on retirement, not the same animal

No such thing as an O-A visa in Thailand, You cannot get a visa in Thailand, only extensions.

As said, the story is most likely correct, but the complication came mainly from the canceling of work permit, along with the ending on the extension based on that work permit, to then convert the non immigrant B status into non immigrant O status.

[Deerculler]

I have just received my OA retirement visa from the Thai Embassy in Wellington NZ. Once I completed the the paper work and sent it to them. It was back in a very short time. I found the Lady in the visa section very helpful, pleasant and polite. There was a fair amount of paper work but it all made sense.

[Soutpeel]

Retirement visa (extension of stay) and turning a B visa into a retirement visa is the easiest thing in Chiang Mai. Personal experience as well as the experience of many others here. You can even turn a tourist visa (NOT a 30 day visa on arrival) into a retirement visa easily here. There's something missing from this story.

Actually the OP is talking about an O-A visa, not an extension based on retirement, not the same animal

No such thing as an O-A visa in Thailand, You cannot get a visa in Thailand, only extensions.

As said, the story is most likely correct, but the complication came mainly from the canceling of work permit, along with the ending on the extension based on that work permit, to then convert the non immigrant B status into non immigrant O status.

I was kinda thinking that well, but he did say O-A and then talks about getting a police report from the Thai police in BKK, it being free and taking 3 weeks...

Stand to be corrected but for an extension based on retirement in country, you dont have get a police report from the Thai cop shop ?

Is is possible the OP is getting the requirements for each mixed up as well, which could have compounded the situation ??

[beechguy]

He does mention an "O-A" in his Lesson 5, but that was an alternative to applying for an extension within the country.

Seems to me it would be easier to obatain a 7 day extension to allow more time to comply with everything he was trying to accomplish, or just go to Vientiane, obtain an "O" Visa and extend it, rather than going back to the home country.

Edited February 9, 2010 by beechguy

[GreenSnapper]

Was at Chaeng Wattana today and my experiences were totally different. The lady, not a "squadron officer", was friendly, just checked quickly all documents I have prepared from the advice here at TV, and soon received my stamps. 10 minutes, it was a breeze.

[chiang mai]

Lessons 1 and 2 are good but it all goes down hill from 3 onwards, OP has an attitude I sense - obtaining and/or renewing retirement visa's is not difficult, given that the applicant meets the requirements and has the right attitude.

[Murgatroyd]

I attend the Samut Prakan office to make my 90 day reports. The staff always seem pleasant and helpful. I did notice that when a farang lady arrived with a brand new pillow for a member of staff her visit was fast tracked ahead of the harassed looking non western foriegn people in the queue...

I will be applying there for an extension of stay based on Marriage, and I'll post to say how it goes... On my last visit I asked the staff to tell me EXACTLY what supporting documentation I would require for my application, and one of the staff members went and found me a list, which was in Thai... He quite reasonably suggested that my wife and I shoud go through it together, with her translating each line as we assembled the duplicate documentation packs. He even added a telephone number by hand and said that if we had any questions, to get my wife to phone up and they would try to help them.

I've been very impressed by the Samut Prakan immigration office, they have always been polite and helpful, and have always dealt with my visit promptly and efficiently.

[astral]

I tend to dis-agree.

Retirement visas are quite straight forward if you have the right paperwork in hand.

The details/lists have been discussed many times.

The OP starts off with a total misconception wanting to convert a B visa to O-A.

He can only convert to an O visa, based on retirement.

The O-A visa can only be obtained from the Embassy back in his home country.

[tartempion]

Lesson Five: Don’t Even Bother Applying in Thailand.

I had all the paper work done in Belgium to obtain an O-A: police report (took 4 weeks to get), proof of income translated into Thai by accredited translator and notarised by ministry of Internal Affairs etc to be told by the Thai employee screening my application: We'll give you a 90 days non-O and advise you to get an extension for retirement in Thailand in the last month you stay there.

I read here you can get an O-A in the USA, not in certain worldwide embassies/consulates.

The OP ran out of luck reel soon, so did many who had to deal with our good man in Nong Khai.

Whilst ALL my soi Suan Plu retirement extensions went painless I can't say so for having to deal with our nice Nong Khai man and the soap selling woman next to him, the behavior of some officers there was outrageous.

My January Udon Thani extension was the most stress-less of all: using the embassy affidavit showing sufficient income AND having more than a handfull of 100k's of funds in the bank (but not 800k and not for 3 months) I was NOT asked for a bank guarantee letter and dod NOT to have to show copies of my passbook AND my GF was NOT asked silly questions such as how she managed to hook a farang or where my money was coming from.

After all these years they (or some?) might be learning how to respect people who elect to spend their hard earned cash in this sunny, poor and backwards country.

I for one sympathize with the OP and loathe the usual and idiotic comments from some posters here.

[GreenSnapper]

I had all the paper work done in Belgium to obtain an O-A: police report (took 4 weeks to get), proof of income translated into Thai by accredited translator and notarised by ministry of Internal Affairs etc to be told by the Thai employee screening my application: We'll give you a 90 days non-O and advise you to get an extension for retirement in Thailand in the last month you stay there.

I tried in Germany to get a Multiple-O at the Thai Honorary Consulate, and the (German) Consul told me, "you cannot retire in Thailand unless 55 years old". When I told her the rules are 50 years, she arrogantly shaked her head and told me to try in Bangkok. I finally received a single Non-O visa after some polite begging from me and copying my bank letter I brought with me.

It seems, each Consulate has their own rules, which does not make things easier. And it is often the foreign staff which is uninformed or comes with clueless demands.

[happylarry]

I dont know if this is relevant to the problems but you cannot open a currant bank account unless you have a work permit and an income.....and as the op had just cancelled his work permit and therefore had no more income from employment would that then render his bank account as "illegal" ????

Could this have anything to do with immigration saying it had to be a savings account, as everybody else's retirement extension funds are obviously in the same?

HL

[OJAS]

I read here you can get an O-A in the USA, not in certain worldwide embassies/consulates.

I experienced no undue problems getting an O-A visa from the Royal Thai Embassy in London 18 months ago. Only thing was I had to go there in person to submit the required documentation and, again, to collect my passport containing said visa 2 days later as they didn't (and, I believe, still don't) deal with visa applications by post.

[lopburi3]

OA is available from most home country Consulates - but not from a third country if you are not resident there. In the UK only the Embassy Consulate section issues them.