What Wat For Long Retreat?

[Sheryl]

Can anyone recommend a wat suitable for an English-speaking Asian foreigner with an alcohol problem to stay at? (Doesn't need physical detox....just some self-insight and a sense that he's made up for the harm he's brought to his family). My 24 yr old Cambodian nephew (buddhist) has been expelled from university for his drinking, is in depths of despair and we (mom/auntie) can't figure out what to do with him as we know a return to Cambodia prior to getting his head together would be disasterous.

Unfortunately the state of wats in Cambodia rules them out for now...there is as much if not more substance abuse in them as outside of them!

He does not speak Thai but has passable English. Would be most comfortable in a place with other young English-speaking novices and at least one English speaking senior monk. Greatly appreciate any suggestions...

[Ajarn]

What about Wat Suan Mok in Surat?

http://www.suanmokkh.org/

[Abandon]

Most temples these days have some English speakers in them. Many also have cambodians, especially around bangkok (which is probably better than upcountry). Best bet would be to contact the Mahacula University which has its HQ at Wat Maha Taht and then get the contact for the Cambodian students society. Then he can meet with some of his peers. Asians cannot just walk into any temple and get ordination, so one of them would be best able to take him to a suitable place.

A couple of notes: at 24 he would become a monk, not a novice. The ordiantion can be quite expensive (10 000 baht at least for most places). Also are you sure that he would find the experience beneficial?? It sounds like family support and/or a good counsellor might be a better road to take - it is not always easy to be a monk. (I tried it once). Lastly can you be sure that he can behave and control himself in that situation, as there is a high code of conduct required, and it would be rather devastating for him if he were not stable enough for it, or got disrobed and thrown out.

[Dara]

Can anyone recommend a wat suitable for an English-speaking Asian foreigner with an alcohol problem to stay at? (Doesn't need physical detox....just some self-insight and a sense that he's made up for the harm he's brought to his family). My 24 yr old Cambodian nephew (buddhist) has been expelled from university for his drinking, is in depths of despair and we (mom/auntie) can't figure out what to do with him as we know a return to Cambodia prior to getting his head together would be disasterous.

Unfortunately the state of wats in Cambodia rules them out for now...there is as much if not more substance abuse in them as outside of them!

He does not speak Thai but has passable English. Would be most comfortable in a place with other young English-speaking novices and at least one English speaking senior monk. Greatly appreciate any suggestions...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about Wast Pah Nana Chat - (see link) http://www.watpahnanachat.org?

[sabaijai]

Wat Mahathat is a good choice, I think. Plenty of English spoken, good discipline, etc.

Wat Suanmok places more emphasis on lay retreats than ordaining, although if ordination isn't strictly necessary, then it might be a good choice as well.

Wat Pa Nanachat is the most disciplined of the three. They only allow visitors to reside in white robes with shaved heads, following 8 precepts. To ordain as a monk requires at least a stay of six months or a year, last I checked.

[lost_in_space]

What about Wat Suan Mok in Surat?

http://www.suanmokkh.org/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Suan Mokh has a program for Thai men trying to dry out. I saw a bunch of guys there, dressed in white, a couple of years ago while I was hanging out. Somebody told me they were alcoholics in a program the temple puts on. If your nephew speaks/understands Thai might be worth a try.

[Sheryl]

What about Wat Suan Mok in Surat?

http://www.suanmokkh.org/

I think Suan Mokh has a program for Thai men trying to dry out. I saw a bunch of guys there, dressed in white, a couple of years ago while I was hanging out. Somebody told me they were alcoholics in a program the temple puts on. If your nephew speaks/understands Thai might be worth a try.

Thanks all for the various suggestuions, I'll look into them esp Suan Mokh

[~G~]

Wat Pa Nanachat is the most disciplined of the three. They only allow visitors to reside in white robes with shaved heads, following 8 precepts. To ordain as a monk requires at least a stay of six months or a year, last I checked.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wat Pah Nanachat -

stay over 3 days only with shaved heads (and eyebrows)

As for white robes, well - in most monasteries in Thailand a layperson practicing meditation in a wat will be called pra-kao (white monk).

In Wat pah nanachat it's a bit different - they have 2 "statuses" for lay people staying there. First status - "laypeople" - usually for those staying between a week and a month (although you can stay as long as you want in this "status"). Those wear standard white cloths.

Second status - "pra-kaos" - is mostly for those who wish to become monks - like a preliminary training period. When I was there it was 6 months but they said it's going to be 1 year. They wear special white robes.

Then you can ordain as a novice (samanen), and can ordain as a monk (upasampada) after a year of being a novice.

They put a lot of emphasis on daily chores, practicing letting go while doing everyday tasks. Not retreating so much from activities but rather learning to be content also in undesireable situations.

If you want to stay there better write in advance. I have seen people that went all the way and were rejected simply because there was no space.

Edited May 21, 2005 by ~G~

[Abandon]

As for white robes, well - in most monasteries in Thailand a layperson practicing meditation in a wat will be called pra-kao (white monk).

slightly off topic, but I thought that the white clothed people were Pa Kao - with pa meaning cloth, not pra (monk).

Anyway good info - I know that the abbot changed last year or so, and WPN is now under the auspices of the Perth temple and Ajahn Brahm, rather than with Ajahn Jayasaro. There is a difference in approach, mostly in meditation system, which under Ajahn Brahm emphasises Jhana. Not sure on what polices changed with the new abbot.

[~G~]

As for white robes, well - in most monasteries in Thailand a layperson practicing meditation in a wat will be called pra-kao (white monk).

slightly off topic, but I thought that the white clothed people were Pa Kao - with pa meaning cloth, not pra (monk).

I remember I heard the other translation, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Gohonzon]

Wat Thamkrabok runs a very austere rehab programme for drug addicts- -which includes drinking herbs to make those on the programme vomit.

I don't know if they also cater for those with drink problems? I watched a programme on the BBC about Wat Thamkrabok and it was very impressive. There was also a very compassionate monk of German birth (I think) who cared for foreigners.

addictshttp://www.nndb.com/detox/238/000051085/

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Wat Thamkrabok runs a very austere rehab programme for drug addicts- -which includes drinking herbs to make those on the programme vomit.

I don't know if they also cater for those with drink problems? I watched a programme on the BBC about Wat Thamkrabok and it was very impressive. There was also a very compassionate monk of German birth (I think) who cared for foreigners.

addictshttp://www.nndb.com/detox/238/000051085/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alcohol abuse can also be treated there ( with a lot of success )

[sabaijai]

Wat Thamkrabok runs a very austere rehab programme for drug addicts- -which includes drinking herbs to make those on the programme vomit.

I don't know if they also cater for those with drink problems? I watched a programme on the BBC about Wat Thamkrabok and it was very impressive. There was also a very compassionate monk of German birth (I think) who cared for foreigners.

addictshttp://www.nndb.com/detox/238/000051085/

There's a black American monk named Phra Gordon who has been there around 20 years, a Vietnam vet and former mercenary soldier, who handles a lot of the daily caretaking, stoking the saunas, etc. Maybe there's a German monk there now, but there wasn't the last I visited, about 8 yrs ago.

Tham Krabok article

[Gohonzon]

Wat Thamkrabok runs a very austere rehab programme for drug addicts- -which includes drinking herbs to make those on the programme vomit.

I don't know if they also cater for those with drink problems? I watched a programme on the BBC about Wat Thamkrabok and it was very impressive. There was also a very compassionate monk of German birth (I think) who cared for foreigners.

addictshttp://www.nndb.com/detox/238/000051085/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a black American monk named Phra Gordon who has been there around 20 years, a Vietnam vet and former mercenary soldier, who handles a lot of the daily caretaking, stoking the saunas, etc. Maybe there's a German monk there now, but there wasn't the last I visited, about 8 yrs ago.

Tham Krabok article

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was a German monk when the programme was televised about 12-18 months ago. As the documentary focused on two English drug addicts/dependents who went through the programme at Wat Tham Krabok. The Phra that I mention played a very central, and crucially supportive role, in their successfully seeing it through.

[Vin-C]

I have been privileged enough to accompany addicts to Thamkrabok on three occassions. I took a cocaine addict in 2000, a methadone addict in 2002 and a heroin addict in 2005. I’m pleased to say that all are still clean but this is NOT indicative of the Thamkrabok success figures. In reality, the success rate is estimated by Phra (Monk) Hans to be about 30%. Nowhere near perfect but bloody good all the same. I’ve been collecting articles, essays and images of Thamkrabok for a couple of years. These stories, photographs and lots of information about getting treatment at the Thamkrabok Monastery can be found at: -

http://www.thamkrabok.net / http://www.thamkrabok.info

or the official Thamkrabok Monastery website at: www.thamkrabok.org

There is also an online Support Group for ex-Thamkrabok addicts called at:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/Friends-o...rabok-Monastery

Or for reference you could try: -

Thailand Thamkrabok Monastery Phra Hans [email protected] +66 (0) 36 266 067 http://www.thamkrabok.org

Scotland Alba-Thai Organisation Stuart Brindley [email protected] +44 (0) 1382 200532 http://www.alba-thai.org

England East-West Detox Mike Sarson [email protected] +44 (0) 118 962 3332 http://www.east-westdetox.org.uk

England TARA Detox Organisation Vince Cullen [email protected] +44 (0) 1635 552 665 http://www.tara-detox.org

Australia Thamkrabok Inc Maria Bannister [email protected] +61 4 0513 7863 http://www.thamkrabok.org.au

If you’ve got the money you can make your own way to Thamkrabok. As long as you truly want to let go of your addiction(s) you are welcome. The Thamkrabok Monastery gives its services FREE. There is no cost for treatment but you must pay for your food, drink, cigarettes, candy, toiletries etc. ‘Real money’ is not allowed in the treatment compound so you must exchange your cash for ‘Thamkrabok money’. Non-Thai addicts must deposit the equivalent of Thai Baht 200 per day at the Admissions Office before treatment. Each day of your stay you will be given back the equivalent of Thai Baht 200 in ‘Thamkrabok money’. These coupons can only be spent inside the treatment compound. This is quite enough ‘money’ to buy your food and drink etc each day of your stay.

The Monastery will not ask for a donation at any time but you may give whatever you wish at the end of your treatment. It is recommended that you stay for a minimum of 10 days. The longer you can stay the better (up to a maximum of 28 days).

The Thamkrabok Monastery treatment program involves…

Location & Isolation: On arrival at Thamkrabok, each addict is asked if he came voluntarily and if he truly wants to give up drugs. If the addict hesitates or answers ‘no’ to either question, he is sent away and told to return when he is serious. Once accepted as a patient, the addict must hand over all his belongings and exchange his clothes for a uniform of white tee-shirt and loose red trousers.

Medicine: Developed over a number of years (since 1959), the recipe is known only to the Abbot and Herbalist. The concoction is emetic, producing “projectile vomiting”. This specific part of the treatment has many components ritual, symbolic, physical effect in purging toxins from the body and the resulting physical weakness.... make no mistake… this is a very real ... very rapid detox. The medicine is not all, one must not forget the part of the ‘Black Pills’ and Herbal Steam Sauna.

Meditation: Not necessarily in the traditional Buddhist sense, but just allowing time and space for the addict to think with a clear head. In addition, there are 12 meditations that the Abbot gives to focus the addict on his situation and the way forward

Peer Support: The temple can treat several hundred addicts at a time, so there is a lot of support from addicts that have already been through the detox.

There is no doubt that after only 5 days treatment, vomiting and saunas, heroin addicts will be largely clean. (Not so for anyone coming off methadone but that’s another story). However, the physical detoxification is only 5% of the treatment. The Abbot of Thamkrabok Monastery (Luangpor Charoen) says “You must do the remaining 95% of the work in your mind and through your actions.”

The biggest factor (95%) of a successful detox at Thamkrabok is “SAJJA”.

“Taking Sajja” ( a holy VOW ~ sacred PROMISE ~ commitment to the TRUTH ) not to use intoxicating substances is the central theme of the Thamkrabok treatment program. Sajja is considered a sacred act that, if you believe in it, will connect you with your will power and with something "beyond". Sajja is there for everybody; it is not limited to any specific religion or belief system.

I believe that the vows (Sajja) taken at Thamkrabok may, or indeed, must change your life and your view of the world. If you keep the Sajja then good things will start to happen in your life and you will be better able to deal with the bad things. If you break your Sajja only bad things will come into your life. But remember, good or bad, all things/experiences are temporary, transient, and impermanent.

Thai addicts are particulary superstitious and consider it very bad luck to break your Sajja and much is made of the “accidents” that happen to addicts that don’t stay clean. But this is not purely superstition or Thai Buddhist spiritualism, just simple logic or common sense. Staying clean will allow you get on with your (new) life, things will only get better. If you break the vow and go back to a life of drugs you will be on the fast track to misery and suffering.

As one of the Monastery’s slogans says:

CLEAN BODY WITH HERBS… CLEAN MIND WITH SAJJA.

Regards,

Vince Cullen

Edited December 4, 2005 by Vin-C