Red-Shirt Leaders Ready For Million-Man March

[scorecard]

From the OP:

...At a meeting yesterday, leaders of the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD) appeared to have differences over several key issues, including the date for the rally - on whether it should be held before the verdict is read out on former PM Thaksin Shinawatra's assets-seizure case on February 26. The date both sides finally decided upon was February 20...

The “million-man march” was announced four days ago and is scheduled for four days from today. Is any information available about the route the march will take, where and at what time it will start and end?

When are the estimated 700,000 people from the provinces expected to arrive in Bangkok? Where will they stay if they arrive the day before the march?

Don't know where they will stay before the march, but I do know that many times before very large numbers have been bused to Bangkok, done the procession or whatever, then been dumped somewhere in Bangkok to find their own way home, which for many is quite expensive.

One example I can quote is walking along the footpath outside the almost failed shopping complex on the corner of Rajadamri Road and Petchaburi Road, and there must have been 4 or 5,000 people just sitting on the footpath, the parking area, the road etc., all looking very forlorne. My Thai adult son potitely asked what was happening. a couple of the people explained that they were very angry, they were bused to Bkk, fed rubbish food, waved the flags at the rally, given 200Baht, and then dumped on that corner.

That now fits perfect with another story......

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

With your story that makes more sense.....After their demonstration they just get dumped somewhere and would never see any money.

I'll add a little more. In the event I described above the people said they did get paid 200Baht.

Becase of the conversation I detailed above my Thai son (adult) became curious and pretty angry about how they were treated, and he proceeded to ask a number of other people if they were aware of this happening.

The answer was more than yes, it seems that it's normal practice, put the poor on the bus, stop the bus somewhere in Bangkok and tell them to get off, bus drives away.

Dumped.

Nice folks these udd leaders. It makes me wonder about other stories I've heard about the man paying for rally attendance, in advance, at a certain amount per head, plus transport, food costs etc etc. But, so the theories go (no evidence whatever) the UDD leaders only pay out half (guess) and pocket the rest.

Such nice sincere people these udd leaders, full of morals and values. No double standards whatever!

[jdinasia]

The Red's have a stage set up behind Wat Pra Singh in Chiang Mai .. They had a guy on stage chattering away tonight!

Crowd ------

absolutely nobody but a couple of vendors were there.

[scorecard]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

Well why else would any intelligent person attend - surely not to hear speech after speech of hatred with no rational discussion of: the theories, the pillars of democrcay, building and maintaining solid democracy, equal justice for all without intimidation of judges, etc.

Isn't that also an insult to most peoples intelligence?

[scorecard]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

Well why else would any intelligent person attend - surely not to hear speech after speech of hatred with no rational discussion of: the theories, the pillars of democrcay, building and maintaining solid democracy, equal justice for all without intimidation of judges, etc.

Isn't that also an insult to most peoples intelligence?

Oh, by the way, perhaps you could enlighten us about the 495 udd schools in Essan and the North.

- What's their vision and mission, their stated clear objective? I guess it's democracy but I'm not really convinced.

- What's their curriculum? If it's solid content and materials about the theory and practice and the mechanisms of democracy, then why not distribute it to all, the internet is ideal for this purpose.

- Anything you can share on this, please.

Edited February 17, 2010 by scorecard

[jdinasia]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

What percentage do you think are NOT paid? Of those that you THINK might not be paid, how many are counting on Thaksin to then give loans that don't have to be repaid or to extend the conditions of loans already made?

[Insight]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

I have to add one more.

How much did this post just earn you?

[coolhandjoe]

Here is my simplistic but effective solution to the ongoing Red/Yellow problem in Thailand...

Take Thaksins estimated frozen wealth of around £2 billion pounds and divide it amongst the aprox 58 million population of Thailand! This equates to a comfortable life for everyone and prosperity for all.

There is only one condition - nobody can wear a red or yellow shirt in the kingdom again.

What a planet!

[parryhandy]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

Of course they flaming well are, what on earth makes you think otherwise ?

[h90]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

No there are arround 2500 commies in Bangkok who do it without payment, but on the last demonstrations only 500 of them came.......

[h90]

I'll add a little more. In the event I described above the people said they did get paid 200Baht.

Becase of the conversation I detailed above my Thai son (adult) became curious and pretty angry about how they were treated, and he proceeded to ask a number of other people if they were aware of this happening.

The answer was more than yes, it seems that it's normal practice, put the poor on the bus, stop the bus somewhere in Bangkok and tell them to get off, bus drives away.

Dumped.

Nice folks these udd leaders. It makes me wonder about other stories I've heard about the man paying for rally attendance, in advance, at a certain amount per head, plus transport, food costs etc etc. But, so the theories go (no evidence whatever) the UDD leaders only pay out half (guess) and pocket the rest.

Such nice sincere people these udd leaders, full of morals and values. No double standards whatever!

I might be wrong, but I got told the rate is 300 Baht so they also got cheated this 100 Baht.

Think for the money...small/medium local leader has to bring 10.000 people payment with transportation 500 Baht per person.

you bring just 5000 as your master does not know anyway: =5000x500

you cheat them 100 Baht transportation and 100 Baht fee= 5000x200

(food not considered)

profit 3.500.000

[Siripon]

Pheua Thai are in disarray regarding the censure debate as Chalerm threatens to pull out if no MP from Pheua Thai is nominated as a possible PM prior the debate.

This is because of the 'true democracy' of Thaksin where all major decisions are decided by himself alone.

Perhaps Thaksin's hoping to persuade one of the coalition parties to vote against Apisit, offering them the premiership in return.

Never mind his own party, Pheua Thai, they're only his employees to be used as he sees fit.

Chalerm should remember Samak's fate. After loyally serving Thaksin, Samak went back to Parliament, fully expecting to be reelected as PM by the MPs.

But Thaksin hadn't the courage to tell him beforehand that he'd changed his mind and wanted his brother-in-law Somchai instead.

If he had known, Samak would have been spared the humiliating scene of watching MPs walk out on him and elect Somchai instead.

So it is now with Chalerm, in spite of canvassing for Thaksin in the by-elections, promising to bring back the 1997 constitution and absolving Thaksin of all crimes, Thaksin is ready to dispose of him, if necessary to help Sudarat or persuade a coalition party to switch sides.

Loyalty means nothing to Thaksin, all are dispensable in this shining age of 'true democracy'!

[Ricardo]

I might be wrong, but I got told the rate is 300 Baht so they also got cheated this 100 Baht.

Think for the money...small/medium local leader has to bring 10.000 people payment with transportation 500 Baht per person.

you bring just 5000 as your master does not know anyway: =5000x500

you cheat them 100 Baht transportation and 100 Baht fee= 5000x200

(food not considered)

profit 3.500.000

One can only admire the 'good business-sense' of this model, perhaps someone can suggest another leader of the Red-Shirt movement, who is also admired for his supposed 'good business sense', and whose example they might be following ?

[jayboy]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

Of course they flaming well are, what on earth makes you think otherwise ?

There have been several responses to my comment on the above lines.I suppose with the Thaksin assets verdict in prospect there isn't much possibility of clear thinking from some in their over excited state.But one wonders do any of the usual suspects actually meet a broad cross section of Thai people.I know it's a minority but I know several well educated Bangkok Thais who are broadly red supporters - lawyers, doctors,businessmen.It's also true that most of these were Thaksin supporters, albeit disappointed ones.It's a reasonable area for discussion - can the Reds represent democratic and progressive values without Thaksin's support? Perhaps one day this can be discussed rationally but not I suspect in this febrile atmosphere and certainly not with those who ludicrously maintain the reds are just bribed peasants and a handful of commies.

[PeaceBlondie]

If the true democratic forces could function independently of Thaksin, they would do better.

[rixalex]

It's a reasonable area for discussion - can the Reds represent democratic and progressive values without Thaksin's support?

Without it, possibily they can, although they have a lot of baggage to shed - might be easier to start afresh and build on a new and more solid foundation based on actual values worthy of aspiration.

With it, as they currently stand, they most certainly can not.

[hammered]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

Of course they flaming well are, what on earth makes you think otherwise ?

There have been several responses to my comment on the above lines.I suppose with the Thaksin assets verdict in prospect there isn't much possibility of clear thinking from some in their over excited state.But one wonders do any of the usual suspects actually meet a broad cross section of Thai people.I know it's a minority but I know several well educated Bangkok Thais who are broadly red supporters - lawyers, doctors,businessmen.It's also true that most of these were Thaksin supporters, albeit disappointed ones.It's a reasonable area for discussion - can the Reds represent democratic and progressive values without Thaksin's support? Perhaps one day this can be discussed rationally but not I suspect in this febrile atmosphere and certainly not with those who ludicrously maintain the reds are just bribed peasants and a handful of commies.

How the red movement evolves will be interesting indeed. Right now it encompasses the whole spectrum form extreme right to extreme left with regional and self interest groups thrown in as well plus a lot who are just Thaksin admirers devoid of ideology beyond that.

Of course the numbers at big rallies are boosted by the bigs and canvassers dragging people in for money but there still remains a core who will always be there. It also has to be said that paid attendees do sometimes have poltical opinions too. Some of those paid probably also are into the cause to some extent. As with the yellows, the reds have active supporters in limited numbers but a lot larger number of sympathisers. These people arent going to run the barricades or anything but when it comes to votes they are there.

I would say if Thaksin was out of the equation today the red movement would change. For a start all those who agree with a lot of what they say but are suspicious of the Thaksin link would no longer have reasonm not to join in. Whether this wwould counterbalance the loss of the pure Thaksin supporters who knows, but we would liklely see a number of realignmnets and thinking of this now maybe certain powerful groups right now, and Im not including the Democrat party in this, woudl actually prefer to have Thaksin remain with the reds. It certainly maintains splits between those who would under other ccircumstances be united.

all imho

[ballpoint]

There have been several responses to my comment on the above lines.I suppose with the Thaksin assets verdict in prospect there isn't much possibility of clear thinking from some in their over excited state.But one wonders do any of the usual suspects actually meet a broad cross section of Thai people.I know it's a minority but I know several well educated Bangkok Thais who are broadly red supporters - lawyers, doctors,businessmen.It's also true that most of these were Thaksin supporters, albeit disappointed ones.It's a reasonable area for discussion - can the Reds represent democratic and progressive values without Thaksin's support? Perhaps one day this can be discussed rationally but not I suspect in this febrile atmosphere and certainly not with those who ludicrously maintain the reds are just bribed peasants and a handful of commies.

Lawyers, doctors and businessmen? Truly a broad cross section of Thailand. How many of these people actually attend the red rallies? The point being made was that, in a large rally - I'm not talking about the miserable little efforts they've managed recently, the majority of the protestors, there to make the numbers large, are indeed paid. It may be in cash, food or a mixture of both. This was also true of the PAD rallies, and I personally know of a number of people who attended both for the money. There is no fixed rate, the level of pay varies depending on whether the attender is a front line banner waver or a back of the crowd foot clapping clown.

[jayboy]

How the red movement evolves will be interesting indeed. Right now it encompasses the whole spectrum form extreme right to extreme left with regional and self interest groups thrown in as well plus a lot who are just Thaksin admirers devoid of ideology beyond that.

I think that comment and the rest of your post is very fair.The Red movement is certainly a broad coalition and it would take a very astute mind to predict exactly how it will evolve (or whether it will collapse and be replaced ( as PeaceBlondie alludes) by a more effective movement largely free of Thaksin's shadow (though his catalytic influence is a matter of record now).But to suggest that the movement is simply one of paid peasants is simply silly, and ignores the huge divisions in Thai society that gave the Red movement its impetus in the first place.A chancer like Thaksin could never have ignited such a movement unless there was a massive resentment of Thailand's greedy and corrupt elite.Note for some:spare me the litany of Thaksin's greed and corruption:I'm well aware of the ironies in this situation.

[jayboy]

Lawyers, doctors and businessmen? Truly a broad cross section of Thailand. How many of these people actually attend the red rallies? The point being made was that, in a large rally - I'm not talking about the miserable little efforts they've managed recently, the majority of the protestors, there to make the numbers large, are indeed paid. It may be in cash, food or a mixture of both. This was also true of the PAD rallies, and I personally know of a number of people who attended both for the money. There is no fixed rate, the level of pay varies depending on whether the attender is a front line banner waver or a back of the crowd foot clapping clown.

None of the professional people I mention have attended red rallies which are largely lower middle class /working class.Nevertheless I don't really buy your thesis that the motivation for those who did attend Red or PAD rallies was a free lunch or a few hundred baht.

[hammered]

How the red movement evolves will be interesting indeed. Right now it encompasses the whole spectrum form extreme right to extreme left with regional and self interest groups thrown in as well plus a lot who are just Thaksin admirers devoid of ideology beyond that.

I think that comment and the rest of your post is very fair.The Red movement is certainly a broad coalition and it would take a very astute mind to predict exactly how it will evolve (or whether it will collapse and be replaced ( as PeaceBlondie alludes) by a more effective movement largely free of Thaksin's shadow (though his catalytic influence is a matter of record now).But to suggest that the movement is simply one of paid peasants is simply silly, and ignores the huge divisions in Thai society that gave the Red movement its impetus in the first place.A chancer like Thaksin could never have ignited such a movement unless there was a massive resentment of Thailand's greedy and corrupt elite.Note for some:spare me the litany of Thaksin's greed and corruption:I'm well aware of the ironies in this situation.

Of course it is not a paid for play movement. Im sure there paid additions are brought in to boost events for the media from time to time as every party and movement does that, and Im sure there is the odd corrupt leader or two. What party or movement doesnt have them but there is absoltuley no way the red movement, whatever that really encompasses, can be written off.

To add to the debate another intersting future development will be to see if the movement or parts of it actually become organic with leaders coming from within and up through the ranks rather than top down or parachuted in as it has pretty much been to date. That side really interesats me as to date Thailand has never seen this happen in any movement.

[rixalex]

But to suggest that the movement is simply one of paid peasants is simply silly,

I think the suggestion might have been refering to those attending the rallies / riots, rather than the entire movement and all of its sympathisers. In that sense, i don't think it's far from the truth.

and ignores the huge divisions in Thai society that gave the Red movement its impetus in the first place.

Let's not kid ourselves; Thaksin was (and still is) the impetus - divisions in society just one of his devices.

[rixalex]

Nevertheless I don't really buy your thesis that the motivation for those who did attend Red or PAD rallies was a free lunch or a few hundred baht.

Maybe that's because you aren't fully appreciating the value of a free lunch and a few hundred baht to someone poor, out of work and with very limited prospects.

[jayboy]

But to suggest that the movement is simply one of paid peasants is simply silly,

I think the suggestion might have been refering to those attending the rallies / riots, rather than the entire movement and all of its sympathisers. In that sense, i don't think it's far from the truth.

and ignores the huge divisions in Thai society that gave the Red movement its impetus in the first place.

Let's not kid ourselves; Thaksin was (and still is) the impetus - divisions in society just one of his devices.

I take a different view on the rally participants' motivation.Even those who were paid are unlikely to have this as primary motivation to attend.I know the opposite view is a common mantra in some middle class circles, precisely echoing ninetenth century British middle class comments in the early days of the Labour Party.It was ever thus.

As to Thaksin, of course he exploited divisions in Thai society but he wasn't responsible for them, and without the profound unfairness and corrupt self serving elites he would never have achieved traction.But I agree it's a very messy situation which doesn't yield itself to quick and facile explanations.

[WAERTH]

One problem for the reds is that their demonstrators run away after their paid time or even before. So they want to pay the money AFTER.

But no one want to agree with payment after. All want the money BEFORE.

If you are under the impression that every Red is motivated by a payment (and post after post suggests this is indeed your view) then I suppose you are entitled to deceive yourself.But please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us.

Well why else would any intelligent person attend - surely not to hear speech after speech of hatred with no rational discussion of: the theories, the pillars of democrcay, building and maintaining solid democracy, equal justice for all without intimidation of judges, etc.

Isn't that also an insult to most peoples intelligence?

Oh, by the way, perhaps you could enlighten us about the 495 udd schools in Essan and the North.

- What's their vision and mission, their stated clear objective? I guess it's democracy but I'm not really convinced.

- What's their curriculum? If it's solid content and materials about the theory and practice and the mechanisms of democracy, then why not distribute it to all, the internet is ideal for this purpose.

- Anything you can share on this, please.

According to my ex girlfriend whom lives in a small village in Udon Thani and whom I am still good friends with is that the only they are being thought is that: The road to true democracy is voting for Thaksin Shinawatra because he is the only one supporting democracy.

She left after attending 2 sessions.

W

[shadiadi]

they are preparing to kill the last bit left of thai tourism ... shot in the footh once again

i expect they also will close the airports, of course

I don't remember the reds ever closing an airport before.

Last time I missed a flight it was a mass of yellow I could see.

There is no guarantee a red shirt wearer is a red shirt and no guarantee a yellow shirt wearer is a yellow supporter either.

I am just going as far away as possible until it's all over.

[yoshiwara]

I don't remember the reds ever closing an airport before.

But you do remember the reds hijacking an oil tanker and attacking Bangkok locals with baseball bats last Songkran don't you?

A repeat of that activity is what worries people.

[scorecard]

How the red movement evolves will be interesting indeed. Right now it encompasses the whole spectrum form extreme right to extreme left with regional and self interest groups thrown in as well plus a lot who are just Thaksin admirers devoid of ideology beyond that.

I think that comment and the rest of your post is very fair.The Red movement is certainly a broad coalition and it would take a very astute mind to predict exactly how it will evolve (or whether it will collapse and be replaced ( as PeaceBlondie alludes) by a more effective movement largely free of Thaksin's shadow (though his catalytic influence is a matter of record now).But to suggest that the movement is simply one of paid peasants is simply silly, and ignores the huge divisions in Thai society that gave the Red movement its impetus in the first place.A chancer like Thaksin could never have ignited such a movement unless there was a massive resentment of Thailand's greedy and corrupt elite.Note for some:spare me the litany of Thaksin's greed and corruption:I'm well aware of the ironies in this situation.

Of course it is not a paid for play movement. Im sure there paid additions are brought in to boost events for the media from time to time as every party and movement does that, and Im sure there is the odd corrupt leader or two. What party or movement doesnt have them but there is absoltuley no way the red movement, whatever that really encompasses, can be written off.

To add to the debate another intersting future development will be to see if the movement or parts of it actually become organic with leaders coming from within and up through the ranks rather than top down or parachuted in as it has pretty much been to date. That side really interesats me as to date Thailand has never seen this happen in any movement.

Here's another thought.

It's totally true that Thai voters (and not only the rural poor) have been manipulated, and severly short changed in terms of capable, sincere and honest parties and 'elected' parliamentarians, ever since 1932. But let's also look at some other pertinent factors:

- Thai voters, at large, have done little to demand better representation, and done little to question the 'parties' in term of a solid and specific manifesto.

- Thai voters have passively accepted both the rampant vote buying and the massive corruption of the past, and the present.

The time must come, in the history of any country when there is change. And I believe that that time could be right now for Thailand. And I make no apology for suggesting that the leaders of that change could well be Abhisit and Korn, both of whom are honest, sincere, and capable (and please don't bring out the "but they both had silvers spoons....", so what, if they are capable and sincere, let them try).

It's also true that they are surrounded by Democrats from the past, many of whom don't have a squeaky clean record plus some even more tainted coalition members.

But the point is that Abhisit and Korn need to work from a structure, even if that structure, currently, has some baggage.

I also believe that Abhisit and Korn could be the catalyst which entices other capable, sincere and honest people to want to get involved. And let's be honest, there are plenty of capable Thais, but in the past they would not get involved, because they didn't want to be associated with incapable ruthless leeches and thugs.

But I suggest there needs to be another driver - the middle classes, getting more vocal and demanding more accountability, etc.

We could perhaps call this a 'Democracy Movement' or even use the old term of 'People Power'.

Now does the current udd/red shirt group have the image of / the activity of a real 'democracy movement', giving speeches about the theory and the benefits of real democracy, the mechanisms of democracy etc? NO.

Further, are the current leaders of the udd/red shirts capable of such a discussion / such a presentation? I very much doubt it.

Are there passive current members of the udd/red shirts who are capable of such discussion & debate? Well I haven't seen any.

I doubt that they do exist, because if they did exist, is it logical that they would passively sit through / continue to sit through all the speeches of hatred with no logical debate, and let themselves be associated with leaders like jatuporn (who's credibility is zero), arisman (who tells people to bring bottles of gasoline to Bangkok), sae daeng (frightenng), the thug vigilante CM red shirts? NO!

[jayboy]

The road to true democracy is voting for Thaksin Shinawatra because he is the only one supporting democracy.

Nonsense of course.However with the PAD movement with open elite support campaigning to restrict the franchise (I know they backtracked on this), it's easy to see how Thaksin seized the true democracy banner.The answer is surprisingly simple:treat all Thai people with respect and don't unfairly discriminate.I believe Abhisit/Korn understand this and gradually if they are are given a chance the baleful influence of Thaksin will wane.Trouble is the greed, stupidity and innate violence in the Thai elite is unpredictable.

[ballpoint]

None of the professional people I mention have attended red rallies which are largely lower middle class /working class.Nevertheless I don't really buy your thesis that the motivation for those who did attend Red or PAD rallies was a free lunch or a few hundred baht.

That's why we no longer see the vast numbers seen during the hey days of the yellow and red rallies. That's why a rally may be called off by the man in Dubai a few days before being due to go ahead ("I'm not payiing"). That's why almost every rural Thai, and more than a few in Bangkok, knows the going rate for a rally attendance. They no longer come around our village, there being a number of people with family affected and threatened by the red actions over Songkhran, but when they did in the past it was well organised. I'm talking both sides, yellow and red here. People here in Buri Ram were collected by pick-up trucks having Khorat number plates, and driven by Khorat residents, so they could tell the check points on the way to Khorat that they were heading home. Once in Khorat, they were bussed to Bangkok, under different guises. I almost wish they would come around here again, I'll be ready with my video camera next time.

Edited February 18, 2010 by ballpoint

[ballpoint]

To add to the debate another intersting future development will be to see if the movement or parts of it actually become organic with leaders coming from within and up through the ranks rather than top down or parachuted in as it has pretty much been to date. That side really interesats me as to date Thailand has never seen this happen in any movement.

I thought their leaders just decide to become one, ala Sae Daeng.