Work Permit - Forming Company

[dansavestheday]

We are 2 British Citizens (23 years old) looking to move to Thailand and launch a company. I have read through lots of info thoroughly but need help on the questions below:

1) To obtain work permits do we need to show 2 million THB registered capital each? How does this work - is it just proof of having this amount in a company bank account at the initial stage and then once approved we can withdraw that money?

[richardt1808]

hehe,

You're a little naive to think it is that simple. You're right, it is 2M Baht each = 4M, but registered capital is maintained through the entire life of the company. It either needs to be cash in the bank or value of assets on hand. So, if you have bought equipment worth 1M, then you need to maintain the other 3M in cash and so on. Also, you need to employ 4 Thais for each work permit and pay salaries and social security for them = ka-ching for 8 salaries. Plus, you need to submit annual financial statements for your 'company' each year (ka-ching), have the records certified by a registered auditor... ka-ching. If you ever want to de-register your company thats about 80,000 Baht... ka-ching. And what exactly were you hoping to do as a business ? Take a look at the occupations which are prohibited by foreigners.

And don't think that you will just get the work permits so easily. Normally they require a company to have been opened for 2 years before they will allow a work-permit to be issued; and the company needs to justify why it needs to hire a foreigner in the first place. And it needs to be a legitimate company... meaning that if you just shove your 4 Million baht in the bank and have no assets, then your company is not a real company, is it. So, in other words, you pretty much need to have 4 million baht in assets - not cash. And of course, dont think you can sell the assets off so easily at some time in the future when you are tired of running your company and had enough of Thailand. By that time, no one will want to buy your 4 year old cars and 25PC's which are 3 years old !

Then, dont forget that this is Thailand so foreigners are only allowed to own 49% of the shares in your company. Do you know any Thai's who are ready to invest 51% in your company???

Oh my ... my stomach really hurts from all the laughter.... Anyway, sorry to burst your bubble, but do yourself a favour and search this forum a bit to see all the stories from others like me who have busted their asses to set up companies here and worked hard to make a success. There are certainly a lot of foreign owned guest houses and maybe pubs in Thailand, but for anything other than that, no-one is honestly going to take a pair of 23 year-old blokes seriously - in any way shape or form.

[dansavestheday]

I appreciate your information Richard, but maybe not so much the smug delivery.

I have read through all the info, I was just unsure on the one questions I did ask. I have another topic in the business section but wanted to find out more about WPs in particular.

The type of business is booking/managing of live music / events - which is not on the list of jobs foreigners cant do.

The reason why a lot of questions seem to get asked over and over is probably because a lot of different answers and info is given. I have read so many different responses on forums, websites and lawyer website descriptions that it can all get a bit muddled. For instance:

- You state 4 employees per WP. I have read this is now 2 per WP. I have also read you don't need to employ any. All on the same forum - confusing. Obviously some stick to the regulations more than others or find loopholes.

- You state that you need 4 million is cash or assets. I have read several times that you only need to show 25% of this figure in your accounts. I have also heard that you can just show 25% in your thai bank account during the WP process and then once it has gone through this amount does not need to sit there.

- Not to say your info on the 2 year wait is incorrect, but I have not read this anywhere else, even with a new startup.

Obviously you have to take info given on forums with a pinch of salt sometimes. I will be discussing with some companies who have more legal expertise in these matters.

[Maestro]

For a start, you could check out the websites of the legal firms that are sponsoring this forum. Click on their banners to get to their websites and you will find a lot of information free of charge.

--

Maestro

[beano2274]

2 WP if married to at Thai, normal is 4.

As others have stated try asking Sunbelt Asia for more detailed assistance.

Managing live events, what kind of events, firstly you will need contacts for the halls or show areas

you will find this very difficult it is Thailand, and Thais like to do business with Thais. Also if it is for

musical events, then try again, many great bands come here, and there are reputable companies

who do all the leg work.

I would try the Phillipines or another country, not for the reasons above, but as it is easier for foreigners

to gain Work Permits and Visas.

[dansavestheday]

Maestro - Yeah have done and e-mailed them. I wanted to get a more personal perspective too, people that have used those companies & their experiences with them. As well as a more neutral opinion if you will rather than just a company saying i need this and this to make more $$$

Beano - Mainly gigs, maybe some club nights too. I have a couple of contacts and making more as I go along. Obviously would help more by being over there but I have contact with some. Yes correct good bands do come to BKK, however I have found it is usually big acts or DJs, a lack of American/UK indie/rock/electro artists. I do feel there is a big area for growth - the scene in HK, KL and Singapore is much bigger as well as Japan obviously. This is a speciality area for me and I have all the right contacts outside of Thailand.

The Philippines could be an option and I will look in to that. I haven't been there but have met people from there. I've heard good/bad reviews like anywhere I guess. I do love Thailand Bangkok though, so will be looking further in to all options.

Thanks for your responses.

[beano2274]

Gigs in Night clubs, mostly managed by Thais knowing Thais, but gigs in clubs are a once in a year thing usually, and also since the Santika affair the amount of bands doing Gigs at Night clubs has fallen, Owners do not want similar incidents. And the public seem to not want to participate if a band is playing.

Loads of European DJs come here and do gigs, always good, but Bands have to be well known and established, for Thais to even consider going.

[scott_cos]

2 WP if married to at Thai, normal is 4.

As others have stated try asking Sunbelt Asia for more detailed assistance.

Managing live events, what kind of events, firstly you will need contacts for the halls or show areas

you will find this very difficult it is Thailand, and Thais like to do business with Thais. Also if it is for

musical events, then try again, many great bands come here, and there are reputable companies

who do all the leg work.

I would try the Phillipines or another country, not for the reasons above, but as it is easier for foreigners

to gain Work Permits and Visas.

Having covered the entertainment industry in Thailand the last 17 years I say "DITTO" to the above. There is no work here, especially for a foreigner doing what you want to do.

[dansavestheday]

I know it might sound naive for me to disagree with people that live there and have experience of the live music scene as you say.

However, I understand that these acts need to be well known. Saosin recently played there on a 1000thb ticket, the place was rammed! Kings of Convenience have a show coming up at 800thb a ticket and again this looks to be a very popular show.

Then of course you have your big name DJs more often.

Places and scenarios can change, I feel perhaps it is naive to think it will always stay the same. By the looks of it, the shows that are being put on seem to be doing very well.

[kudroz]

Been there in a similar situation. We formed a company here with 5 million of registered capital (fully paid-up). We used the cash to purchase furniture, computers and also used it to pay salaries and other business related expenses.

Got the work permits easily. My business partner was 21 and I was 26 at the time - this was back in 2008. They asked to see the registered capital and made sure it was fully paid-up. We provided bank statements and invoices for the purchases we had made.

We had over 8 thai employees when we requested the work permits. Subsequently requested a third work permit and they granted it even though we had only 11 Thai employees.

Good luck!

[Nio]

hehe,

You're a little naive to think it is that simple. You're right, it is 2M Baht each = 4M, but registered capital is maintained through the entire life of the company. It either needs to be cash in the bank or value of assets on hand. So, if you have bought equipment worth 1M, then you need to maintain the other 3M in cash and so on. Also, you need to employ 4 Thais for each work permit and pay salaries and social security for them = ka-ching for 8 salaries. Plus, you need to submit annual financial statements for your 'company' each year (ka-ching), have the records certified by a registered auditor... ka-ching. If you ever want to de-register your company thats about 80,000 Baht... ka-ching. And what exactly were you hoping to do as a business ? Take a look at the occupations which are prohibited by foreigners.

And don't think that you will just get the work permits so easily. Normally they require a company to have been opened for 2 years before they will allow a work-permit to be issued; and the company needs to justify why it needs to hire a foreigner in the first place. And it needs to be a legitimate company... meaning that if you just shove your 4 Million baht in the bank and have no assets, then your company is not a real company, is it. So, in other words, you pretty much need to have 4 million baht in assets - not cash. And of course, dont think you can sell the assets off so easily at some time in the future when you are tired of running your company and had enough of Thailand. By that time, no one will want to buy your 4 year old cars and 25PC's which are 3 years old !

Then, dont forget that this is Thailand so foreigners are only allowed to own 49% of the shares in your company. Do you know any Thai's who are ready to invest 51% in your company???

Oh my ... my stomach really hurts from all the laughter.... Anyway, sorry to burst your bubble, but do yourself a favour and search this forum a bit to see all the stories from others like me who have busted their asses to set up companies here and worked hard to make a success. There are certainly a lot of foreign owned guest houses and maybe pubs in Thailand, but for anything other than that, no-one is honestly going to take a pair of 23 year-old blokes seriously - in any way shape or form.

Brush on your facts mate. Half of what you posted is false.

It is now 2 Thai employees for every WP and your facts about capitalization are totally false.

If you are going to give advice, at least know what you are talking about.

And starting a company is very easy for those that do it the right way

[Nio]

Thailand Big Mountain Woodstock concert at Khao Yai in the past week had over 30,000 people attend

If it is a good show people will go

[PoorSucker]

The two year audited balance sheets is only if you want to have 1 year extension of stay based on employment.

You can still get a 1 year multiple entry on-B in KL if you have at least 8 months left on your WP.

This will require that you make border hop every 90 days.

Have you considered buying an old company.

Thaivisa classified.

About employees.

The rule is 2 if married to Thai else 4.

Depending on your location a good accountant can fix that but it will cost you around 14.000 / WP.

[davethailand]

2 WP if married to at Thai, normal is 4.

As others have stated try asking Sunbelt Asia for more detailed assistance.

Managing live events, what kind of events, firstly you will need contacts for the halls or show areas

you will find this very difficult it is Thailand, and Thais like to do business with Thais. Also if it is for

musical events, then try again, many great bands come here, and there are reputable companies

who do all the leg work.

I would try the Phillipines or another country, not for the reasons above, but as it is easier for foreigners

to gain Work Permits and Visas.

Having covered the entertainment industry in Thailand the last 17 years I say "DITTO" to the above. There is no work here, especially for a foreigner doing what you want to do.

Have to say that I agree, I can't see a living being made out of this.

[richardt1808]

hehe,

You're a little naive to think it is that simple. You're right, it is 2M Baht each = 4M, but registered capital is maintained through the entire life of the company. It either needs to be cash in the bank or value of assets on hand. So, if you have bought equipment worth 1M, then you need to maintain the other 3M in cash and so on. Also, you need to employ 4 Thais for each work permit and pay salaries and social security for them = ka-ching for 8 salaries. Plus, you need to submit annual financial statements for your 'company' each year (ka-ching), have the records certified by a registered auditor... ka-ching. If you ever want to de-register your company thats about 80,000 Baht... ka-ching. And what exactly were you hoping to do as a business ? Take a look at the occupations which are prohibited by foreigners.

And don't think that you will just get the work permits so easily. Normally they require a company to have been opened for 2 years before they will allow a work-permit to be issued; and the company needs to justify why it needs to hire a foreigner in the first place. And it needs to be a legitimate company... meaning that if you just shove your 4 Million baht in the bank and have no assets, then your company is not a real company, is it. So, in other words, you pretty much need to have 4 million baht in assets - not cash. And of course, dont think you can sell the assets off so easily at some time in the future when you are tired of running your company and had enough of Thailand. By that time, no one will want to buy your 4 year old cars and 25PC's which are 3 years old !

Then, dont forget that this is Thailand so foreigners are only allowed to own 49% of the shares in your company. Do you know any Thai's who are ready to invest 51% in your company???

Oh my ... my stomach really hurts from all the laughter.... Anyway, sorry to burst your bubble, but do yourself a favour and search this forum a bit to see all the stories from others like me who have busted their asses to set up companies here and worked hard to make a success. There are certainly a lot of foreign owned guest houses and maybe pubs in Thailand, but for anything other than that, no-one is honestly going to take a pair of 23 year-old blokes seriously - in any way shape or form.

Brush on your facts mate. Half of what you posted is false.

It is now 2 Thai employees for every WP and your facts about capitalization are totally false.

If you are going to give advice, at least know what you are talking about.

And starting a company is very easy for those that do it the right way

Sorry if I was not 100% correct with the RC info. I was trying to illustrate a point, rather than give all the facts to a certainty. But pls go check again on the numbers of Thai per WP. It is 4 unless married to a Thai - which the OP is not.

Now that the OP has revealed which industry he wants to set up in, the other advice given is quite on the button. If the OP wants to compete with BEC Terro then he's welcome to try. But he's not going to have any control over his 49% owned Thai entertainment company so it is a very risky proposition, isn't it ?

[thaiphoon]

Also note that foreigners cannot own more than 49% of the share capital, so you are going to need Thai shareholders for the remaining 51%. Have a look at the following link for useful information on setting up a business.

http://www.boi.go.th/english/how/setting_up_a_business.asp

[mortenaa]

You are right about the 25% paid up capital for a Thai company. But for a WP, I think that the capital has to be paid up 100%. This has changed as far as I understand. But why u need a business in Thailand? Much easier to setup a British Ltd, and just be here on business. If that works out ok, think of setting up a Thai company in the future..

[dansavestheday]

Poorsucker - Thanks for the info. Yes have considered buying an existing company. Although could be easier, seems possibly more expensive. Will look further though.

Davethailand - Appreciate your view even though I personally disagree. Let me use Saosin as an example again - they played Butterbutter recently on a min. 1000thb ticket, the capacity of the venue is 1000 I believe. I am unsure if it was a sellout but looking at photos and videos on youtube, it seemed pretty rammed to me. If it was a sellout, the ticket revenue would be at least 1 mio THB. That's just one show. I say minimum because more expensive VIP tickets were also available. Now I know not every sure will be like that, hey I work as a promoter here in the UK, so although not the same territory the principles are pretty similar.

Richardt - Bec-Tero are a big company and put on some very big shows. I am not looking to compete with them, especially not in the early stages. I am looking at putting on smaller shows or more niche acts if you will. You may say that these niche acts aren't popular there or there's no market but again I point to my example above. If you look at the shows Bec-Tero are putting on - Green Day, Rod Stewart, Eric Clapton, Simply Red, Kylie Minogue etc. They are massive shows and they only put on a small amount of shows per year.

Thaiphoon - Appreciate the link.

Mortenaa - I have heard otherwise in the amount you need to show to gain WPs. Although I might be able to visit Thailand on business, I wouldn't be able to work there as such. I feel there is a market in BKK and Thailand for what we wish to achieve. We also love Asia, Thailand especially and would love to move abroad and do something we both love.

[davethailand]

Poorsucker - Thanks for the info. Yes have considered buying an existing company. Although could be easier, seems possibly more expensive. Will look further though.

Davethailand - Appreciate your view even though I personally disagree. Let me use Saosin as an example again - they played Butterbutter recently on a min. 1000thb ticket, the capacity of the venue is 1000 I believe. I am unsure if it was a sellout but looking at photos and videos on youtube, it seemed pretty rammed to me. If it was a sellout, the ticket revenue would be at least 1 mio THB. That's just one show. I say minimum because more expensive VIP tickets were also available. Now I know not every sure will be like that, hey I work as a promoter here in the UK, so although not the same territory the principles are pretty similar.

Richardt - Bec-Tero are a big company and put on some very big shows. I am not looking to compete with them, especially not in the early stages. I am looking at putting on smaller shows or more niche acts if you will. You may say that these niche acts aren't popular there or there's no market but again I point to my example above. If you look at the shows Bec-Tero are putting on - Green Day, Rod Stewart, Eric Clapton, Simply Red, Kylie Minogue etc. They are massive shows and they only put on a small amount of shows per year.

Thaiphoon - Appreciate the link.

Mortenaa - I have heard otherwise in the amount you need to show to gain WPs. Although I might be able to visit Thailand on business, I wouldn't be able to work there as such. I feel there is a market in BKK and Thailand for what we wish to achieve. We also love Asia, Thailand especially and would love to move abroad and do something we both love.

Fair enough but I just don't see how you will be able to compete with the Thai's doing it all ready.

I don't think the following here will be that great for smaller acts unless the ticket prices are very low. A lot of expats here don't want to pay 1000bht a head for concerts unless the acts a huge. some known Thai acts here command upwards of 100k a night and the price goes up the bigger they get, also the sound companies charge big money not forgetting the venue etc.

By all means go for it but seriolusly look at it first, I'm not a promotor but i've been to a few gigs, know a few big bands personally and run and own a live music club, I will say though that some new talent brought in would be good as some of the festivals here aren't that great.

[dansavestheday]

Fair enough but I just don't see how you will be able to compete with the Thai's doing it all ready.

I don't think the following here will be that great for smaller acts unless the ticket prices are very low. A lot of expats here don't want to pay 1000bht a head for concerts unless the acts a huge. some known Thai acts here command upwards of 100k a night and the price goes up the bigger they get, also the sound companies charge big money not forgetting the venue etc.

By all means go for it but seriolusly look at it first, I'm not a promotor but i've been to a few gigs, know a few big bands personally and run and own a live music club, I will say though that some new talent brought in would be good as some of the festivals here aren't that great.

Reason why I feel I can compete is due to the contacts, relationships and experience I have. Like you say some new talent brought in would be good, which I feel justifies that Thai Promoters aren't doing it all. It's very hard to build up relationships with the agents, bands and managers that I have - which definitely gives me a raised platform.

Yes I will be thoroughly looking in to venue and sound costs of course. Appreciate your thoughts.

[davethailand]

Fair enough but I just don't see how you will be able to compete with the Thai's doing it all ready.

I don't think the following here will be that great for smaller acts unless the ticket prices are very low. A lot of expats here don't want to pay 1000bht a head for concerts unless the acts a huge. some known Thai acts here command upwards of 100k a night and the price goes up the bigger they get, also the sound companies charge big money not forgetting the venue etc.

By all means go for it but seriolusly look at it first, I'm not a promotor but i've been to a few gigs, know a few big bands personally and run and own a live music club, I will say though that some new talent brought in would be good as some of the festivals here aren't that great.

Reason why I feel I can compete is due to the contacts, relationships and experience I have. Like you say some new talent brought in would be good, which I feel justifies that Thai Promoters aren't doing it all. It's very hard to build up relationships with the agents, bands and managers that I have - which definitely gives me a raised platform.

Yes I will be thoroughly looking in to venue and sound costs of course. Appreciate your thoughts.

Good luck with it mate but as said its not going to be easy.

[mortenaa]

Good luck with it mate but as said its not going to be easy.

Nothing is easy. I have seen several foreign event creaters here. Swedish, French whatever. I've seen clubs come and go. I've seen tons of concepts started and leave again. The market here is very competitive already, especially the foreign market.

Mortenaa - I have heard otherwise in the amount you need to show to gain WPs. Although I might be able to visit Thailand on business, I wouldn't be able to work there as such. I feel there is a market in BKK and Thailand for what we wish to achieve. We also love Asia, Thailand especially and would love to move abroad and do something we both love.

If you heard otherwise, why are u asking us that has been here several years already, and already done it? I actually need to hire more foreigners in my business, and would love if could.. But..

There is a market potential in BKK. But running a Thai company itself is hard job. Bureaucracy over your head. Taxes have to be paid every month. So i would reconsider two or three times before setting up a Thai company, and see if u just can have your business running from England or whatever.

[jazzbo]

There is an old saying that "Anyone who marries for money earns it."

Similarly I would say: "Anyone who sets up a Thai Company just to get the Work Permits, dam_n well will have to earn it."

[dansavestheday]

Again I appreciate your feedback.

Regarding setting up the company in the UK and doing business in Thailand, unfortunately this is not possible. 'A foreign entity may establish a representative office in Thailand to engage in limited non-revenue-earning activities'.

I never said I thought this is going to be easy, hel_l no I know it's not. But we are two very dedicated, hard-working and enthusiastic guys.

We're not just doing it to get a WP, I would just go travelling around if that's what I wanted to do.

We're not rushing in to anything, just getting all the facts to make an informed decision.

[kudroz]

The 25% minimum paid-up capital requirement is what the Civil and Commercial Code of Thailand (the law) requires. You will have to have at least 25% paid-up by the end of the year when your auditor checks your books. Altough, the Department of Employment (http://www.doe.go.th) will want to see 100% paid-up capital to issue work permits.

Your registered capital can be both cash and assets. As long as your assets are tangible and at fair market value you shouldn't have any problems with the auditor and with the Department of Employment. If some of your registered capital consist of intangibles (e.g. trade secrets, clients list, software code, etc) it can be challenged by an auditor at the end of the year and probably won't be accepted by the Department of Employment if you attempt to get work permits.

Sunbelt and Siam Legal are both good firms offering the services you are looking for. They are not expensive and can help you get started

[dansavestheday]

Thanks Kudroz, yes I am speaking to those at the moment.