I don't blame anyone for not wanting to serve in the military, but I am disgusted with those that would disparage those that give up a lot to protect them.

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to serve in the military, but I am disgusted with those that would disparage those that give up a lot to protect them.

That's where you have it wrong. How many peaceniks, how many war protestors marching in Washington DC, ....how many pro-war housewives......how many US citizens, were being "protected" from the VC?

Viet Nam was not about protecting anybody.

Viet Nam, like Iraq, had nothing to do with the spin that the warmongers fed the public. "We have to protect you. You are in danger. Support us going overseas on this agenda."

So why were you in the Army if you are so amazingly enlightened?

So why were you in the Army if you are so amazingly enlightened?

What's that got to do with Viet Nam and Iraq having nothing to do with protecting the American public?

How many Viet Cong landed on the California coast?

Soldiers are required to protect their country's national interests and they do not get to pick and choose what wars they fight in. If you were in the army, you should know that. You have insinuated that Vietnam soldiers were "baby killers" and "rapists". That is nothing but just plain wrong.

Most if not all armies have a few of both.

My father tells the story of how he was nearly lynched while on leave in Naples in 1945. A group of drunken soldiers from one of the Highland regiments had kicked an old man to death and a mob of furious Italians was rampaging through the city attacking allied servicemen.

While he was fleeing for his life an Italian dragged him into his house and locked the door, saving him from a severe beating or worse.

My point is, there is always a few that disgrace their uniform, judging all servicemen by a few bad eggs is wrong, but in this case was used as a political tool.

I'm sure that there's no one here believes every American soldier was a rapist and baby murderer any more than they think the NVA were all murderous scum... or do they?

Why am I getting into this, these arguments were unwinnable 40 years ago.

Most if not all armies have a few of both.

Of course, but making excuses for anyone who generalizes that most Vietnam era soldiers fit into that category is just not on.

Soldiers are required to protect their country's national interests and they do not get to pick and choose what wars they fight in. If you were in the army, you should know that. You have insinuated that Vietnam soldiers were "baby killers" and "rapists". That is nothing but just plain wrong.

I would really like to see where I have insinuated, even tentatively approached insinuating anything of the sort.

Please point it out....and while you go back reading again, (No point me reading my words again), try and interpret my words in context, and properly, please.

My point to you was that YOU insinuated stated that the soldiers in Nam were there to "protect" US citizens. My response was that they were doing no "protecting" at all since the VC were not about to invade US shores.

(Talk about taking someone's words and spinning them!)

I think it is a shame that the men who fought in Vietnam returned home to a radical left calling them names like baby killer, rapist etc... They deserved better.

I will just point out, as people often forget, that it is not slander if it is true.

Have you forgotten this already?

Do not bother trying to BS your way out of it. Try a little honesty. It is not like when you are lying to a moderator - trying trick them - so that you don't get suspended. Anyone who can read knows exactly what you were implying.

I think it is a shame that the men who fought in Vietnam returned home to a radical left calling them names like baby killer, rapist etc... They deserved better.

I will just point out, as people often forget, that it is not slander if it is true.

Have you forgotten this already?

Do not bother trying to BS your way out of it. Try a little honesty. It is not like when you are lying to a moderator - trying trick them - so that you don't get suspended. Anyone who can read knows exactly what you were implying.

Ahhhh....I can see your point. My apologies for my "who's spinning?" comment. As I said, I didn't go back and read my posts (As I know I never had any intention to condone true cowards, or to alledge that all US soldiers in Nam were "baby killers or rapists". Of course I don't think that!).

I very specifically began my post with the comment, "I will just point out, as people often forget...", to ensure that I was digressing with the aim of clarifying a point in the main topic (topic being the quoted post).

But I can see your take. I assure you it was wrong.

Please don't call my words BS when I'm explaining previous words. I have shown that I am willing to accept when I'm wrong and I don't try to wheedle my way out of things.

I categorically state that I do not, have not, and foreseeably will not condone cowardice or false accusations.

I think that you view my posts through shit coloured glasses. I can understand that. Hence I don't attack you personally. I see where you're coming from.

It is the wrong angle. Take off the glasses and give me a bit of due credit. We both have different histories, and thus will have a different worldviews. We both may have our eyes opened a little to a different perspective....I promise you I am looking at your posts with thought and introspection (except your sarastic or frivolous posts ).

(On an aggressive note; I really really would like you to come right out and be specific about me lying to a mod and trying to trick them. That is quite an accusation, and I have no idea what you're alluding to. I resent being called a liar.)

I am aware that we often misunderstand each other on the internet, but I just can see no other meaning for this post. As to the lying to the mods thing, I was just trying to say that there might be some justification for that if one was trying to avoid being suspended, but why lie to us? I did not really mean to direct that specifically at you, but objecting to the "baby killers" comment seems perfectly justified to me.

I have never deliberately lied to you or this forum. I did misrecall some old news, and I repented for that.

Again you imply I'm a liar.

Again I resent that.

Again I say, demand, that you back your words up buddy.

I think it is a shame that the men who fought in Vietnam returned home to a radical left calling them names like baby killer, rapist etc... They deserved better.

I will just point out, as people often forget, that it is not slander if it is true.

Have you forgotten this already?

Anyone who can read knows exactly what you were implying.

Back it up? I already did.

Interesting that you have not even bothered to explain some "alternate" meaning.

I think it is a shame that the men who fought in Vietnam returned home to a radical left calling them names like baby killer, rapist etc... They deserved better.

I will just point out, as people often forget, that it is not slander if it is true.

Have you forgotten this already?

Anyone who can read knows exactly what you were implying.

Back it up? I already did.

Interesting that you have not even bothered to explain some "alternate" meaning.

Go and sleep on it. I can not see where you have proved me a liar anywhere.

I can not see where, in light of my responses, your inferrences are still valid.

Go get some sleep. What time is it there? 4 pm ish?

I won't come up with a different meaning no matter how long I sleep.

If you want to impugn me, back it up specifically.

Thus far, I have personally attacked a few members that have attacked me. I think I have refrained from that in your case (frivolous posts excepted of course).

That is because I respected you, based upon how you presented your views.

Notice the past tense.

I feel exactly the same. Most of your comrades are hateful trolls who hate America because it is fashionable, but I thought that you had a little more going for you.

You don't.

I feel exactly the same. Most of your comrades are hateful trolls who hate America because it is fashionable, but I thought that you had a little more going for you.

You don't.

I have no comrades. I have one casual-online-mate that I notice you ambiguously, diplomatically excluded.

We are falling out here because you will not be specific.

You called me a liar. Back it up or retract it.

I already have - several times. As to your "mate", I am pretty sure that he thinks that you are totally full of it too.

I already have - several times. As to your "mate", I am pretty sure that he thinks that you are totally full of crap too.

You have not at all. Post it now. Show me to be a liar, clearly, specifically, unambiguously. Otherwise retract.

I think it is a shame that the men who fought in Vietnam returned home to a radical left calling them names like baby killer, rapist etc... They deserved better.

I will just point out, as people often forget, that it is not slander if it is true.

There it is in black and white. Only a pathological liar would deny it.

I think it is a shame that the men who fought in Vietnam returned home to a radical left calling them names like baby killer, rapist etc... They deserved better.

I will just point out, as people often forget, that it is not slander if it is true.

There it is in black and white. Only a pathological liar would deny it.

Are you dense? I explained where I was coming from with that.

If you did, I missed it. I saw a bunch of gobeldeegook about how you meant something else with no explanation.

If you did, I missed it. I saw a bunch of gobeldeegook about how you meant something else with no explanation.

There you go, you missed it. That's not my fault.

(Talk about taking someone's words and spinning them!)

Dont worry about it too much HC

I use to think the same as you that it was a intentional twisting/spinning of words.

I have come to realize though that it is more likely a lack of comprehension & as such take pity on it.

Add to that a need to be argumentative for arguments sake & well....You know it makes discussing anything tough at best.

If for example you say green tends to be troublesome ...Well then it will say you must automatically be a red hater.

Best to just let it go as it is an endless circle with no reasonable worth.

For somethings are beyond comprehension for some who take delight in drawing you into its low level orbit.

(Talk about taking someone's words and spinning them!)

Dont worry about it too much HC

I use to think the same as you that it was a intentional twisting/spinning of words.

I have come to realize though that it is more likely a lack of comprehension & as such take pity on it.

Add to that a need to be argumentative for arguments sake & well....You know it makes discussing anything tough at best.

If for example you say green tends to be troublesome ...Well then it will say you must automatically be a red hater.

Best to just let it go as it is an endless circle with no reasonable worth.

For somethings are beyond comprehension for some who take delight in drawing you into its low level orbit.

Yeah...you're right. But I had higher expectations with this last falling-out opponant. I thought he was above it and I do not think he is one to take delight in drawing one down.

You're right about the blinkers though.

Never mind.

(Talk about taking someone's words and spinning them!)

I use to think the same as you that it was a intentional twisting/spinning of words.

Twisting words? What do you make of asking someone who you are arguing with if they have a Jewish name? It's lucky for you that at least you boys can agree with each other.

Wow!

Nobody wins in a war, be it just, or unlawful.

Wow!

Nobody wins in a war, be it just, or unlawful.

That makes a nice bumper sticker but reality is much different.