Thai Dogs Vs Farang Rights. What Comes First?

[mauGR1]

I don't understand this conflict between VF and Phetaroi(i find both of your posts interesting in their own way)

I don't think VF supports stray aggressive dogs biting the children,and i don't think Phetaroi hates all the dogs because once he was attacked.If i had a house and a family in the countryside,i would rather train a brave dog than buy a gun.

In Koh Chang there are many stray dogs,but most of them are absolutely harmless,well fed despite not having a owner.

There must be some dog-eaters in town though,because i noticed various times a sudden disappearing of a few in the bunch.

I asked some local,did confirm.(i don't agree with the concept,but it keeps the dog population under control)

I noticed only once a pack of really aggressive dogs in a less populated area,they looked skinny and nasty and they tried to bite me while i was riding past,yes i ride very slow on the island,and dogs are often the cause of accidents.

I think there is a problem with the dogs indeed,specially in the cities,which is in need to be addressed,possibly with a grain of compassion.

Oh if you think Thai stray dogs are dangerous and ugly,try India,you will need a stick to walk around after dark.Most of the Indians despise and mistreat the dogs,which get their revenge when there's less people around.

I heard about Thais paying medical expenses for other Thais bitten by their dog,but for some reason the foreigners seem to have to pay them themselves

[villagefarang]

It is really quite simple. Some people are repressed neanderthals who go around beating their chests and threatening to bludgeon things to death. I would hazard a guess that it is all talk.

Others are more rational. If there are too many strays and they are suffering, round them up and euthanize them in a humane way. In a village environment you illicit the aid of the village headman and your neighbors. In a city there should be organizations that can be contacted.

There are always people who say bad things happen to them, without any provocation on their part. They are never culpable in any way.

I happen to believe in cause and effect. Too often you see people tormenting and provoking people's pets and then getting agitated when the dog doesn't like it.

Just because Thais sometimes poison dogs or eat them does not mean that is exemplary behavior that we should emulate. It is too often motivated by ignorance, revenge or jealousy of the owner and the dog is the hapless victim.

[kikoman]

This is Thailand (TIT) Thais keep dogs for many reasons, the main on is protection of property. When I go walking in the village ,I always carry a 6 foot WALKING stick, and a few rocks, has been necessary to defend ones self on occasion. Thais in the village also do the same, the Thai protection of choice is a sling shot shooting hardened clay balls made for this purpose.

All of my neighbor have dogs I do not, I had some rabbits once that were all killed by a dog, my neighbors instructed me to put out poisoned meat in my completely fenced yard, as they said the dog will return, sure enough it did and enjoyed its last meal in the privacy of my yard.

One dose not go onto someone property in Thailand and start yelling at them because of their dogs.

Big Mistake, walk softly but carry a big stick !

Cheers:

Edited March 1, 2010 by kikoman

[canuckamuck]

I also believe in cause and effect. I believe problems with aggressive dogs are the fault of from inept or negligent dog owners. It is entirely possible to raise dogs that will defend the property and their owner to the death, yet will not harm any humans off property or act aggressively towards visitors. Off course that takes effort.

[IanForbes]

In Koh Chang there are many stray dogs,but most of them are absolutely harmless,well fed despite not having a owner.

There must be some dog-eaters in town though,because i noticed various times a sudden disappearing of a few in the bunch.

I asked some local,did confirm.(i don't agree with the concept,but it keeps the dog population under control)

Yah, but it's always the nice "well fed" dogs that suddenly disappear into the cooking pot.

Despite being bitten many times by many different dogs, I still love dogs. I just won't abide a nasty one. On a recent hike up to Doi Suthep we met a big, handsome dog at the top. He was just wandering about free and sort of adopted us as a self appointed guide. He didn't like petting and was totally independent, but for some strange reason decided he needed our company or we needed his. He led us all the way from the temple, back down the trail we had climbed up earlier and right to the bottom where we said our goodbyes. I've never seen the like of it before, and I've spent a lot of time with dogs.

The trail up near the top at the temple.

Near the bottom at one of the many falls..

[Loz]

There is a very influential man in Thailand. Many of you will have his picture in your pocket.

He authored a book on a dog of his in an attempt to get thai people to treat dogs well. Usually when this guys says something it has a massive impact. I am still waiting for the impact of this book to have effect. Its actually a quaint story and true as you can see this dog on much of the TV footage of his owner.

I agree dogs get their values from people. Unless peoples values change, don't expect dogs to behave any better...

Thanks for the heads up on the pepper spray. Is it because dogs are very sensitive to smell that it gives them such a shock? I was looking for a remedy for at least one local dog. maybe two (if it keeps defecating in my garden) so I will bare this in mind. its quiet and discrete. I like it in principle.

[BangkokHank]

^ I don't think Thai-foreign comes into it. I have a pretty strong suspicion that this type of situation doesn't really fall into the area dealt with by the law/forces of the state. As ts said, most Thais, if they really wanted to do something about it, wouldn't go to the police.

Of course "Thai-Foreign" comes into it. Do you think that if a foreigner's dog had bitten a Thai there would have been no consequences? Of course the foreigner would have to pay the Thai's medical costs - plus a little something for pain and suffering - and something for the police as well.

[BangkokHank]

Not exactly. I am saying this is a very rough country not for the faint of heart, and in almost all cases when there is a conflict between Thai and foreigner, the Thai is going to win, and most Thais behave like they know that, so beware. That's all.

Exactly. Well said on both points: The Thai will win - and, more importantly, they behave as if they know they will (because they know how their fellow Thais think)! This makes them a lot braver - and therefore more dangerous - than they otherwise would be.

[somtampet]

My dogs just bark at people they dont know or who act scared. I let them walk free in the village without me a couple of times a day.

So, you've 'gone native' enough to contribute to the dog problem in Thailand. Do you think it's cool that your dogs 'bark at people they don't know or who act scared?'

What are you, just a bump on a log redneck who lets his dogs cause mischief around the village, and when you're around the house, you get a kick out of watching your dogs harass passers by? You're part of the problem, blockhead.

I live at the edge of a village, near a dead end dirt road. Lovely site, except for one thing: each neighbor has a pack of dogs, and (surprise!), the neighbors don't have a clue or inclination to control them. A light sleeper like me is is woken up about four times every night, 365 days/year. Plus there are daily noise and shitting and trash raiding problems - same as affect every square Km in Thailand. If any folks visit me, they soon find that they can't walk up or down the road, because packs of shitty little dogs will threaten them. Dog problems are an integral part of Thailand.

Incidentally, there's a Burmese town I often visit. I take my bicycle and cruise around aimlessly. In cumulative (roughly) 500 hours there, I've rarely been harassed by a single dog, and never been threatened by a pack. Conversely, just 5 minutes bicycling in any Thai village will bring dog noise and other problems.

I have to agree with everything you say.How people can let their dog(s) off withought a care,shitting everywhere,scaring children and then saying its ok,is beyond me

[kuffki]

Mate, firstly let me say sorry about your experience.

I am a big dog lover and may come across being little prejudice but here it goes.

In reality dogs are simple creatures, they felt threatened, or simply wanted to protect their property from the stranger.

If that women was able to chase them away, which means she takes care of them, so the dogs acted in defence of her. I know you were not a threat, but lets keep in mind they are dogs.

Clearly it was proven that the dogs belonged to the woman or the guy who police spoke with.

I am under opinion that the Thai man or woman are responsible for all your medical fees, as not only they did not act to prevent this, but failed to act after the fact.

I have had/seen/experienced similar incidents back in Australia, owners or minder of the dogs would always cover the medical and then its up to the victim to start civil litigations if he/ she wishes.

If you were to sue the Thai man and woman and say you win, i doubt you will get more then a few baht out of them.

If you were to go after them now for the medical, i am afraid only dogs will suffer, most likely they will kill them and again doubt you will get any money for the medical.

i do understand your pain and frustration. I think the best cause of action is basically to go to police and state that you want those people to pay for your medical bills. Should they refuse or not have the money(most likely the case) you want police to issue order to muzzle the dogs.

Its very very sad, but usually in this kind of incident only dogs end up hurt or killed while people who are responsible for the animal get away with nothing.

I honestly do not think you will see any money, but being a decent guy, you may end up having the dogs muzzled, so no one else gets hurt

[backsoon]

FOR THE LAST TIME. a)I was on the open public beach at low tide walking near the water edge. I did not run before, during or after attack. c) I yelled at the woman from water edge while she was standing and watching the attack. d) I did not provoke the dogs in any way. e) I did not panic at any stage. f) I know a difference between barking dog and attack dog. g) I live and walk on this beach for 4 years.

I know I am in Thailand. I am fine, I will live, I am taking the injections prescribed. I am not expecting any money.

I accept TIT and it is full of Thais and their dogs. I know Thais are Buddists. I have heard of 'Special Thai Culture'.

I thank the majority of posters for concern, good ideas and generally contributing to the topic.

I even accept that I am less important than the Thai flea on a Thai dog.

THE ONE THING I CAN NOT ACCEPT IS FARANG WITH A HEADBLOCK> please do take it personally... you know who!

[NALAK]

I have a great deal of sympathy for the OP. Pretty dam_n scary event.

But, before I go condemning Thailand for the overall situation, I have to remind people how many maulings by violent dogs there are in the U.S.

The pepper spray comment was interesting to me, because I do a lot of walking around Bangkok and elsewhere when I travel upcountry. Is pepper spray here legal? And, if it is, where does one buy it?

Try any camping supplies shop, mine came from one on Sukhumvit, but cannot pinpoint the exact location now.

It was 8 years ago... I still have it, very tiny aerosol... probably doesn't work now.

i get mine at local market just outside pataya, a lot of the night markets will have a stall with knives handcuffs tasers and pepper spray. i paid 250 baht for mine, i got fed up with neighbours dogs going nuts at me every time i came home. quick spray now they see me and leg it. ones a rotty one a pitbull. bad owners, i have two pittbull dogs taken off the street they hardly bat an eye lid at anything.

[highlander76]

the thai solution would be to return with a big bag full of poisoned pork.

very true

[kuffki]

the thai solution would be to return with a big bag full of poisoned pork.

That would be my solution too.

Minced meat & rat poison are cheap enough.

You're doing the next potential victim a favour.

So if a person attacks or robs you, do you kill him as well so he can not hurt or rob anyone else?

Why is it that we people always punish or hurt animals yet never blame ourselves?

Why have we people decided to be God's when it comes to animals?

Who gave us(people) the right to decide what animal lives and what dies?

I personally find it discusting, and not speaking about Thailand, but other country's like Australia or UK or USA. After every dog attack, dog is taken away and killed yet the owner walks away with no problem and is free to get another pet.

Whats worse in my opinion is when a child is attacked by the dog, everyone blames the dog and kills it, yet no one questions where were the parents of this child and why have not they acted.

When bears come rampaging in your backyard, they do not do it because they bored, they do it because they been pushed out from the forests and their food has been taken away. Yet we kill them, and do not even bother to look at ourselves who made pushed this bear to do what it did.

May be to some my post is just crap, but i think its time we start to think about other creatures on this planet and not just ourselves.

PS. Animal will never kill another animal for fun or any other reason, but only to eat. Yet we kill each other over the dumbest reasons(girls, boys,road rage, etc etc etc)

I know it does not help the OP, but i just think killing is not the solution to the problem.

Off the topic, i spent 2 hours every day feeding all the soi dogs around my area and have a huge bawl of food outside of my gate for all the soi dogs every day. And i can honestly say all the soi dogs in my area seem to be pretty happy and hardly ever even make a noise, or chase a motorcycle or do anything stupid

[phetaroi]

So if a person attacks or robs you, do you kill him as well so he can not hurt or rob anyone else?

Why is it that we people always punish or hurt animals yet never blame ourselves?

Why have we people decided to be God's when it comes to animals?

Who gave us(people) the right to decide what animal lives and what dies?

I personally find it discusting, and not speaking about Thailand, but other country's like Australia or UK or USA. After every dog attack, dog is taken away and killed yet the owner walks away with no problem and is free to get another pet.

Whats worse in my opinion is when a child is attacked by the dog, everyone blames the dog and kills it, yet no one questions where were the parents of this child and why have not they acted.

When bears come rampaging in your backyard, they do not do it because they bored, they do it because they been pushed out from the forests and their food has been taken away. Yet we kill them, and do not even bother to look at ourselves who made pushed this bear to do what it did.

May be to some my post is just crap, but i think its time we start to think about other creatures on this planet and not just ourselves.

PS. Animal will never kill another animal for fun or any other reason, but only to eat. Yet we kill each other over the dumbest reasons(girls, boys,road rage, etc etc etc)

I know it does not help the OP, but i just think killing is not the solution to the problem.

Off the topic, i spent 2 hours every day feeding all the soi dogs around my area and have a huge bawl of food outside of my gate for all the soi dogs every day. And i can honestly say all the soi dogs in my area seem to be pretty happy and hardly ever even make a noise, or chase a motorcycle or do anything stupid

Self-analysis is great, isn't it?

[BlackArtemis]

the thai solution would be to return with a big bag full of poisoned pork.

That would be my solution too.

Minced meat & rat poison are cheap enough.

You're doing the next potential victim a favour.

So if a person attacks or robs you, do you kill him as well so he can not hurt or rob anyone else?

Why is it that we people always punish or hurt animals yet never blame ourselves?

Why have we people decided to be God's when it comes to animals?

Who gave us(people) the right to decide what animal lives and what dies?

I personally find it discusting, and not speaking about Thailand, but other country's like Australia or UK or USA. After every dog attack, dog is taken away and killed yet the owner walks away with no problem and is free to get another pet.

Whats worse in my opinion is when a child is attacked by the dog, everyone blames the dog and kills it, yet no one questions where were the parents of this child and why have not they acted.

When bears come rampaging in your backyard, they do not do it because they bored, they do it because they been pushed out from the forests and their food has been taken away. Yet we kill them, and do not even bother to look at ourselves who made pushed this bear to do what it did.

May be to some my post is just crap, but i think its time we start to think about other creatures on this planet and not just ourselves.

PS. Animal will never kill another animal for fun or any other reason, but only to eat. Yet we kill each other over the dumbest reasons(girls, boys,road rage, etc etc etc)

I know it does not help the OP, but i just think killing is not the solution to the problem.

Off the topic, i spent 2 hours every day feeding all the soi dogs around my area and have a huge bawl of food outside of my gate for all the soi dogs every day. And i can honestly say all the soi dogs in my area seem to be pretty happy and hardly ever even make a noise, or chase a motorcycle or do anything stupid

That is completely untrue, territorial disputes and vies for/displays of dominance often lead to death, not to mention various forms of competition within an ecosystem.

Also poisoning meat is a horrible way take care of a problem. It's not an accurate way and can lead to many unintentional deaths and can often be a very horrific way to die for an animal.

[flyinghigh]

Interesting post...I got bit by a big thai dog ,last oct. ,I was walking past a house at the end of my soi ,the thai owners were moving house ,the dog was always barking and growling when ever i walked past ,but the owners seem to keep it under control ,. There was a big truck being loaded up with furniture ,and i did not see the dog ,the gates were open ,all of a sudden it came from behind ,took two bites out of the back of my leg ,the thai lady owner came running out ,shouting at the dog, i was in a lot of pain ,man it f**king hurt, blood pouring out of the wound ,anyway her son took me to hospital (Pattaya Memorial),seven stiches later ,a tetnus booster ,and the first of many anti rabies injections , The bill came to 4000 bart ,which my TG gave to her ,she paid the bill , however ,i had to go back the next day for wound cleaning , it had got infected ,so they kept me in for four days, .The total bill came to 40000 bart ,but my accident insurance (siam comm. bank(covered it ,I was told by my TG ,and my thai neighbours ,i could go to the police ,and have the dog destroyed .....they have now moved away ,she was very upset ,and i did not want to cause problems for these people, excuse the pun ,but i wanted to let sleeping dogs lie!.....It f**ked up two weeks of my time here ,and i was not out of pocket ,but i am now very wary of dogs .....be care full out there.

[IanForbes]

That couldn't POSSIBLY be true, flyinghigh. The dog lovers here have informed us that it is OUR fault if we get bitten.

As far as animals not attacking and killing for fun... that is a bunch of BS. Cats torture and kill their prey all the time and without ever eating what they've killed. Dogs do it all the time to smaller animals... for no other reason than blood lust. Dogs will chase and kill deer and sheep without any intention of eating what they've killed. I could go on and on what I know for a fact about dogs, but I'll leave it at that.

[robblok]

That couldn't POSSIBLY be true, flyinghigh. The dog lovers here have informed us that it is OUR fault if we get bitten.

As far as animals not attacking and killing for fun... that is a bunch of BS. Cats torture and kill their prey all the time and without ever eating what they've killed. Dogs do it all the time to smaller animals... for no other reason than blood lust. Dogs will chase and kill deer and sheep without any intention of eating what they've killed. I could go on and on what I know for a fact about dogs, but I'll leave it at that.

I must agree here.. when my dogs see a roach.. they will kill it and not eat it. Last time they were chasing and in the end killed a small monitor lizzard that ventured into my home. I took it from them because that animal they did want to eat.

I dont see dogs as saints.. but i dont see them as evil either. In general dogs wont attack people but it does happen, in general people don't kill other people .. but it does happen. Im still not affraid of all other people.

[Artisi]

I have a simple fool-proof understanding, if a dog bites me or any of my family there is no need for any discussion with owners etc - it dies at the earliest opportunity.

[flyinghigh]

That couldn't POSSIBLY be true, flyinghigh. The dog lovers here have informed us that it is OUR fault if we get bitten.

As far as animals not attacking and killing for fun... that is a bunch of BS. Cats torture and kill their prey all the time and without ever eating what they've killed. Dogs do it all the time to smaller animals... for no other reason than blood lust. Dogs will chase and kill deer and sheep without any intention of eating what they've killed. I could go on and on what I know for a fact about dogs, but I'll leave it at that.

mmmmmmm, I guess it depends on the owner ,as to whose fault it is , IT WAS NOT MY FAULT .....This owner was good enough to admit blame

[kuffki]

That couldn't POSSIBLY be true, flyinghigh. The dog lovers here have informed us that it is OUR fault if we get bitten.

As far as animals not attacking and killing for fun... that is a bunch of BS. Cats torture and kill their prey all the time and without ever eating what they've killed. Dogs do it all the time to smaller animals... for no other reason than blood lust. Dogs will chase and kill deer and sheep without any intention of eating what they've killed. I could go on and on what I know for a fact about dogs, but I'll leave it at that.

What dog lover has informed you that it is your fault for being bitten?????

And where the heck do you live to have Dogs chase and kill deer and sheep and if you do not mind please share where you got your knowledge and facts about dogs? Your imagination or a conspiracy theory websites or was it a fictions book???

99.9% dog attack is the fault of the owner and no one else

[Jangot]

Well, here is one fact.

I was born on and spent my early years on my Grandfather's farm in Northamptonshire, England.

I can recall many instances where dogs attacked sheep, maiming them.

They would bite a chunk out of the sheep - normally the hind quarters (I guess in the chase), big messy holes.

The dog seldom killed the sheep - but the sheep would have to be 'put down' because the injury was too severe.

Any dog seen 'worrying' sheep, was shot.

If the owner could be found, the owner was prosecuted by the police, and the dog 'put down'.

This was 45 years ago, I don't know the situation in UK now.

J.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Jangot

[kuffki]

Well, here is one fact.

I was born on and spent my early years on my Grandfather's farm in Northamptonshire, England.

I can recall many instances where dogs attacked sheep, maiming them.

They would bite a chunk out of the sheep - normally the hind quarters (I guess in the chase), big messy holes.

The dog seldom killed the sheep - but the sheep would have to be 'put down' because the injury was too severe.

Any dog seen 'worrying' sheep, was shot.

If the owner could be found, the owner was prosecuted by the police, and the dog 'put down'.

This was 45 years ago, I don't know the situation in UK now.

J.

If i understood correctly, it was on the farm and it was a working farm dog. Is not farm dogs trained to bite sheep to keep them inline?

I do realize not to bite to take the chunk out of sheeps leg but still to bite!

If i misunderstood, was it a wild dog or someone else's dog? If someone else's it must of been either hungry or again was a farm dog and just tried to "work" but without the supervision.

do not forget, dogs work on instinct and what they were taught.

Guard dog does not develop the skills by itself

Pitbull is aggressive enough as is, if the owner does not train it and know his/her dog when to stop them but rather develops the aggressive side of them, then of course the dog will attack, but then the owner needs to be put down not the dog.

Bottom line is, there are and always will be animal lovers and not. There will always be people who poison animals because what ever reason they have and others who will always help injured animal.

Throughout the history dogs have certainly done more good then bad.

Special note to few people who said if their kid was bitten they would kill the dog. What kind of parent are you to allow your kid go play unsupervised with the animal? May be those should take some parenting classes rather than rush to the shop to buy some poison. I wonder if you would shoot yourself if you gave a loaded gun to your kid to play with unsupervised.

Whenever my dogs play with kids, no matter how much i trust my dogs-they are dogs, i am always there and not visual distance but right there to ensure kids are safe and no harm is done, but thats just me, i am sure something wrong with me.

[CrossBones]

if you want to live in a world where everything is safe, works properly, you have your rights etc, then go home

Seriously

This is Thailand.

[canuckamuck]

if you want to live in a world where everything is safe, works properly, you have your rights etc, then go home

Seriously

This is Thailand.

I think we need an emoticon for, if you don't like it leave. That would save some posters a lot of time.

Maybe this one saying go home

[TheLaughingMan]

if you want to live in a world where everything is safe, works properly, you have your rights etc, then go home

Seriously

This is Thailand.

I think we need an emoticon for, if you don't like it leave. That would save some posters a lot of time.

Maybe this one saying go home

Hehe awesome idea

[BlackArtemis]

if you want to live in a world where everything is safe, works properly, you have your rights etc, then go home

Seriously

This is Thailand.

I think we need an emoticon for, if you don't like it leave. That would save some posters a lot of time.

Maybe this one saying go home

I prefer the SA Goons get out frog.

[deejah]

still working my way through this thread

if you don't mind, what beach please?

[ThailandTommy]

Well since the dogs were associated with a Thai person, of course the dogs trump. If we are talking non-owned soi/street dogs vs. farang, that's a more interesting question. However, they would still trump as they are Thai dogs. Look, long stayers have probably all had similar experiences dealing with frustrating Thai cultural differences here. Your case is a bit severe. I think those considering moving move here who are still in the land of smiles/rose colored glasses phase should be informed before they make they move as to what they are really getting into.

What are you saying JT - if you are afraid of dogs, don't move here?

The other day on my soi one of the local MUTTS bit someone - a Thai I believe. The dog is no longer around to give his side of the story.

Not exactly. I am saying this is a very rough country not for the faint of heart, and in almost all cases when there is a conflict between Thai and foreigner, the Thai is going to win, and most Thais behave like they know that, so beware. That's all.

I tend to agree, if you were to kill or seriously hurt one of these dogs you can bet your last THB that all of a sudden a very distressed 'owner' would appear demanding compensation for the demised pooch!

Remember in LoS 'Money Number One'