Greed And Pyramid Schemes On The Rise In Thailand

[webfact]

Special Report:

Greed and Pyramid Scheme Business

BANGKOK: -- In the last few years, pyramid scheme businesses have gained significant popularity Thailand as people have been lured into making investments in some intangible businesses. Nowadays, some of pyramid scheme swindlers disguise themselves as either direct sales or tourism enterprises, making it even more difficult for innocent people to differentiate and for authorities to trace the frauds.

According to Office of the Consumer Protection Board (OCPB) Legal Official Sareeya Galasintu, the pyramid scheme lures people to invest in a fake business as they are promised to be paid a greater sum of money in return if they can recruit new members. Most pyramid scheme businesses have no actual products or services. The money used to pay old members will come from new members. Some of the pyramid scheme businesses registered themselves as direct sales companies while their fake business and commission plans are all fabricated.

Legal officials have cautioned people to check before deciding to invest and to do some research on whether the companies have legally registered with the OCPB or if previous complaints have been filed by consumers or not. Furthermore, Ms Sareeya admitted that some companies did not conduct their businesses according to the plan submitted to the OCPB. She stressed that pyramid scheme businesses would focus more on financial return and recruitment of more members instead of tangible goods or services while some companies only had their goods available in catalogs.

Ms Sareeya admitted that the OCPB had been receiving complaints from consumers after they did not receive financial payments as promised. She said anyone deceived by such gangs should hastily inform the OCPB for further investigation in order to try to get their money back, if possible.

As for any preventive measures, she elaborated that the OCPB had been working closely with the Department of Special Investigation, the Anti-Money Laundering Office, and related sectors to suppress the pyramid scheme businesses. She added that the OCPB also tried to educate the public via various channels.

Pyramid scheme businesses can survive at the expense of people being lured into the trap of hope to earn quick money although the authorities have been attempting to impede pyramid scheme swindlers by educating people about such incidents. Nonetheless, self-awareness to greed is the vital key to ensure that no one will fall into the trap, if we can change this value in each individual, pyramid scheme businesses will no longer appeal to anyone.

-- NNT 2010-03-05

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[Harcourt]

"......She added that the OCPB also tried to educate the public via various channels......."

This is key to undermining the success of these schemes. I wonder how well they "try to educate the public".

[gotlost]

With the morals of the government is it a wonder?

[YanTree]

"Greed...is on the rise"

[Garry]

"Greed...is on the rise"

I remember one time in Chiang Mai, I was sitting at a bar and this western guy (who I don't know from my next beer) sidles over all chummy like. Talks the normal bar BS to me for half an hour or so then he hits me up with an investment scheme. I started laughing my head off and politley told him to try it on someone else, I'm not interested. Then the prick takes offense because I wouldn't hear him out. I ended up finishing my beer and walking out. What part of 'no I'm not interested' didn't this guy understand.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Garry

[thaibkk]

i guess the amount of stupid people wanting a quick buck only increases...

when it sounds too good to be true ...

[mythBuster]

One of the biggest sponsors of de Democrat party made his money through a pyramid game, fled to London where the opportunistic British government welcomed him and his enormous fortune. Pyramide schemes are only banned in Thailand when they hit the elite by accident. If you look at the business structure of companies like NU Skin, Geffarine, Amtrac or others you realize that Pyrmaid relates schemes are an accepted marketing strategy in Thailand.

[SeanMoran]

i guess the amount of stupid people wanting a quick buck only increases...

when it sounds too good to be true ...

I don't suppose there's any chance of a work permit into the bargain, is there?

[scorecard]

With the morals of the government is it a wonder?

What does that mean, care to share your reasons for your statement?

[brianb1944]

"Greed...is on the rise"

I remember one time in Chiang Mai, I was sitting at a bar and this western guy (who I don't know from my next beer) sidles over all chummy like. Talks the normal bar BS to me for half an hour or so then he hits me up with an investment scheme. I started laughing my head off and politley told him to try it on someone else, I'm not interested. Then the prick takes offense because I wouldn't hear him out. I ended up finishing my beer and walking out. What part of 'no I'm not interested' didn't this guy understand.

I had the same experience in CM, and also with a few doorknockers. It seems that the dodgier the scheme, the more offended the propounder is at not being believed or heard out.

[brianb1944]

With the morals of the government is it a wonder?

Care to share your insights into the morals of this Government, I as a Farang would not even pretend to have an understanding of the workings of this Government.

[anotherpeter]

With the morals of the government is it a wonder?

Yes ... it's amazing how the morals of the whole country have been affected by a government that have only been there for a year.

[YanTree]

"Greed...is on the rise"

I remember one time in Chiang Mai, I was sitting at a bar and this western guy (who I don't know from my next beer) sidles over all chummy like. Talks the normal bar BS to me for half an hour or so then he hits me up with an investment scheme. I started laughing my head off and politley told him to try it on someone else, I'm not interested. Then the prick takes offense because I wouldn't hear him out. I ended up finishing my beer and walking out. What part of 'no I'm not interested' didn't this guy understand.

The same part the touts at the end of my street don't understand when I tell them I don't want a sexy lady or a massage even though I have been saying no to them every day, multiple times a day, for several years.

In many forms of sales your job is to keep asking until they hang up on you (or walk away) - because some small % of people will change their mind if they keep pressing.

[eljeque]

Amway, not Amtrac, but absolutely right you are.

[YanTree]

If you look at the business structure of companies like NU Skin, Geffarine, Amtrac or others you realize that Pyrmaid relates schemes are an accepted marketing strategy in Thailand.

I've never heard of any of those companies and I don't know how to 'look at their business structure'. Would you or anybody else care to expand on this, as it relates to these businesses?

Thanks

[screamingeagle]

There's a sucker born every minute!!!

[mitrapaap]

With the morals of the government is it a wonder?

Yes ... it's amazing how the morals of the whole country have been affected by a government that have only been there for a year.

Excuse me. Whose billions just got seized, Abbhisit's or Taksins?

[paully]

^^^ never heard of Amway, really??

I think one of the reasons why these sorts of schemes appear to thrive in Thailand is the Thai social structure itself. Family members and 'friends' can easily bring pressure on individuals to invest and the whole loss of 'face' thing comes into play, they just find it very difficult to say no or to change their mind and go back on a 'promise' of cash even if the scheme looks hopelessly dodgy.

Edited March 5, 2010 by paully

[NanaFoods]

Amway, not Amtrac, but absolutely right you are.

LOL... I was wondering what Amtrak was doing in Thailand and what trains had to do with pyramid schemes...

He meant Amway... of course.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[munns]

Amway, not Amtrac, but absolutely right you are.

Amtrac is the rail comapany in America not even on the right lines LOL i will be possibly warned for making remarks that people could take an offence at iam normaly.

[julesdick]

^^^ never heard of Amway, really??

I think one of the reasons why these sorts of schemes appear to thrive in Thailand is the Thai social structure itself. Family members and 'friends' can easily bring pressure on individuals to invest and the whole loss of 'face' thing comes into play, they just find it very difficult to say no or to change their mind and go back on a 'promise' of cash even if the scheme looks hopelessly dodgy.

Agreed - seen it in action a few times.

[anotherpeter]

With the morals of the government is it a wonder?

Yes ... it's amazing how the morals of the whole country have been affected by a government that have only been there for a year.

Excuse me. Whose billions just got seized, Abbhisit's or Taksins?

1) How exactly did he get those billions? All those changes that he made while PM had no influence at all on the shares he and his family owned in Shin Corp.

2) It wasn't Abhisit the government that seized the billions. It was the courts, using laws that existed BEFORE Thaksin was PM.

Maybe the way that Thaksin got his billions made people think that they could make a quick buck by ripping off other Thais too.

[dom samui]

And Herbalife !!!!

[Navalator]

With the morals of the government is it a wonder?

Yes ... it's amazing how the morals of the whole country have been affected by a government that have only been there for a year.

What a CHEAP SHOT! What about the morals of the previous administration under Thaksin? You must be one of those Red Shirt morons.

[ignis]

Pyramid Schemes

What is it?

Is every Business that sells a product to another, then they sell it and so on, down level after level a Pyramid Scheme ?

No is the simple answer,

In UK BT sell there phone lines direct + sell to other companies that have agents then come knocking + or and advertize, all the different home phone companies, still use the BT phone line..

Insurance Companies here and most places in the world do the same, Kleen-Eze, Amway, Avon, Tupperware... the list is endless

I think lots of people get muddled, I was told years ago that a Person/Company that sells a product is not classed as Pyramid Scheme..

It get confussing, Take Honda, Private people open a garage/Showroom and sell Honda cars, they have people selling cars many on Commission only, when I boubht a new Honda here I was also given a list of what to say to friends and if I got someone to buy a Honda then I would receive 10,000 baht, for each car. It is the same thing is that Pyramid Selling ?

[Foggy Bottom]

One of the biggest sponsors of de Democrat party made his money through a pyramid game, fled to London where the opportunistic British government welcomed him and his enormous fortune. Pyramide schemes are only banned in Thailand when they hit the elite by accident. If you look at the business structure of companies like NU Skin, Geffarine, Amtrac or others you realize that Pyrmaid relates schemes are an accepted marketing strategy in Thailand.

I think you are confusing multi-level marketing with pyramid schemes.

The British Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards Department's regulations include (paraphrased from memory) that -

A multi-level marketing program is legal if it -

- promotes a genuine product (tangible or intangible) that has genuine marketable value as a product for resale and requires the sale of that product as the primary means of income for the sales person.

- includes the opportunity for the sales person to acquire a level of sales where they purchase direct from the producing / supplying company instead of their upline sales person.

- provides the bulk of the full price discount to the person actually making the sale to the consumer / purchase from the company (whether through upline or direct)

- requires no purchase of product stocks other than minimal samples for demonstration to customers

- requires no more than GBP 25.00 "membership" joining fee which must include a suitable provision of product samples.

A pyramid marketing program is illegal if it -

- requires large value investment in product stock that the "member" cannot return to the company for refund

- requires a membership investment greater than GBP 25.00 for which no tangible product is provided whose retail value is equal to, or exceeds, the membership fee

- involves the sale of informational products, newsletters, or circulars only - products of this nature may only be sold direct from the company creating them, and must include an offer of instant cancellation of any subscriptions, with refund of any subscriptions within the first 30 days of membership.

- involves transactions where the sole financial transaction is payment of, and commissions for, membership fees for recruiting new members.

Some of the world's largest companies are involved in legal multi-level marketing - Dorling Kindersley Books for example, or Amway and Avon for cosmetics and cleaning materials. All forms of manufacture-distribution-wholesale-retail based supply chains are multi-level marketing (though of a price mark-up rather than price-discount format). The old style mail order catalogues - Sears, Littlewoods, Grattans etc, were forms of multi-level marketing. Modern Internet-based affiliate marketing is a form of multi-level marketing based around supplying advertising real estate on websites. Agencies like Adbrite and Commission Junction are the upline salespeople taking a slice of each sale your hosted advert generates.

Chain letters and the like (and their modern equivalent via email) are pyramid selling, generally scams.

Pyramid selling is an emotive and often abused term - too many people are too quick to label too many perfectly good and legal programs with that name. In the 1990s I made good money selling high quality men and women's fragrance products (aftershaves, colognes, perfumes, body care etc.) under a multi-level marketing program, and never once had to buy "for stock" - only to supply customers or myself. I did quite well with DK's children's books too. And my then wife did moderately well with Avon. Nowhere was there the scam element of only getting income by signing up other people. In fact we were pretty pish-poor as recruiters and made almost all of our money from our own direct selling activity.

Please educate yourself regarding such topics before making raging generalisations. I'm not sure about Nu-Skin, which I think would possibly fall foul of the British rules, although it seems to run more akin to a franchise with mandatory shop and product stock holding requirements. Franchises themselves are a form of multi-level marketing too - with franchisees buying their product from the franchising company - think KFC, McDonalds, Pizza Hut etc.

It's a much bigger sector than most people realise, and only a small / tiny segment of schemes fall under the illegal variant of pyramid selling.

Foggy

[vicco]

Don't be too hard on Pyramid schemes.... Egypt had one thousands of years ago and look how successful it turned out.....still pulls in billions a year in tourist revenue...

[YanTree]

^^^ never heard of Amway, really??

He said Amtrac, not Amway.

Amway is perfectly legit in the USA and I'm sure a lot of other countries. That one gets paid a commission for those they signup under them doesn't make it a 'pyramid scheme' - where the line is drawn is whether most of the money comes from products or from fee's you pay to join. Amway actually sells a lot of product, so it's ok.

Are there legit businesses in Thailand which are operating under a system that would not be allowed in the USA? I.E. most of the money is from the initiation fee's?

[Acharn]

"Greed...is on the rise"

I remember one time in Chiang Mai, I was sitting at a bar and this western guy (who I don't know from my next beer) sidles over all chummy like. Talks the normal bar BS to me for half an hour or so then he hits me up with an investment scheme. I started laughing my head off and politley told him to try it on someone else, I'm not interested. Then the prick takes offense because I wouldn't hear him out. I ended up finishing my beer and walking out. What part of 'no I'm not interested' didn't this guy understand.

Hey, it's just like selling insurance. You have to be persistent. Do enough cold calls, keep it up, learn the tricks to keep pitching the sucker... the prospect even after he's started saying no, and you'll make a good living. Don't take "no" for an answer. Some people can do that and still live with themselves, because it's not a matter of offering a genuine value, it's about getting people to give you money.

[yllorco]

A pyramid scheme is simply a fraudulent scheme in which people are recruited to make payments to the person who recruited them while expecting to receive payments from the persons they recruit; when the number of new recruits fails to sustain the hierarchical payment structure the scheme collapses with most of the participants losing the money they put in.