Whats The Big Deal With Saying Your Wife Is...

[CarlBkk]

You can pick holes in it and find exceptions, but all the reasons I mentioned are genuine. What's so absurd, please tell me? Do you think that we are judged exactly the same regardless of the heritage, looks and skin colour of who is on our arm?

I think you just don't like to believe it, or possibly don't want to accept it. Some foreigners on this board do like to pre-empt any assumptions about their girlfriend by stating she's Thai-Chinese, which basically implies any of the notions I gave previously. It's a get-out clause. They want to appear "above" the normal standard seen around town. Their partner may indeed have a certain Chinese percentage which they are proud of (or their gf tells them they should be proud of) and she may still have tattoos and be as rough as muck, who knows!

[StreetCowboy]

Racial profiling is an essential element to stereotyping, and forming effective prejudices and bigotry. Without clear racial stereotypes, where would we be? How would we live our lives?

I think that every poster should state their race, and that of their spouses and girlfriends, in descending order of seniority.

To make it simpler, a pantone code would be useful.

SC

EDIT: typo corrected

Edited March 8, 2010 by StreetCowboy

[CarlBkk]

Racial profiling is an essential element to stereotyping, and forming effective prejudices and bigotry. Without clear racial stereotypes, where would we be? How would we live our lives?

I think that every poster should state their race, and that of their spouses and girlfriends, in descending order of seniority.

To make it simpler, a pantone code would be useful.

SC

EDIT: typo corrected

That's very PC cowboy. So we should keep quiet if certain races possess characteristics widely acknowledged as commonplace? Stereotyping might not always lead to bigotry. Some stereotypes are indeed positive, amazingly enough. Some races can even have a laugh at their own stereotyped characteristics and accept them as true. There are differences between nations and races and regions in the world, and some people out there identify them. How brazen and tactful they are when broadcasting them is a different matter.

[tahaan]

Carlbkk, you obviously missed my point. Thailand has had governments that have held very different views to yours on the value of the Chinese in Thai society and some very important people that have tried to disguise their ancestry. If these views were to return would your "generalisations" hold?

[Tinkelbell]

It's simple. Thai Chinese have a reputation that differs from the indiginous. Some like them, some don't. Some find them attractive, some don't. Here are a few honest generalisations as to why they are perceived to be "better".

Fewer Thais make the assumption that a girl looking more Chinese/white is a bargirl or farang-hunter. There's a good reason for that.

Thai Chinese make an interesting and attractive physical mix to Thais.

Thai Chinese girls are less likely to make a play for men, especially foreigners, even if they like them. They are in demand already.

Thai Chinese are brought up with some of the stricter moral codes of their parents.

Thai Chinese are in the top jobs. They have more intelligence passed down in the genes and parents can often afford to give them better/further education.

Thai Chinese often live with their parents until marriage (referring to Bangkok), study in Bangkok and then work in Bangkok. They're on a tighter leash when it comes to nightlife and relationships.

Thai AND Thai Chinese men find Thai Chinese girls more attractive and more eligible as partners for the above reasons. Darker-skinned indiginous Thai girls know this. Draw your conclusion. Pure Chinese are generally not as appealing.

Thai Chinese girls are more difficult to attract.

A few foreigners think it's more worthwhile (especially after being here for a while) others prefer a possibly lower-maintenance option. Whatever social and communicative level you seek depends on who you end up with. Thais assume that foreigners will only be with the lower classes...who happen to mostly be dark/country/indiginous because that's what they always see, it's not the Thais' fault, but expect to be ridiculed for it. Thais are surprised when they see a foreigner with a girl whom they perceive as much more attractive, higher social grade and intelligent. A few foreigners are also surprised when they see this phenomenon!

Heartfully agree with 'CarlBangkok'.

A minute after reading, I thought to myself......A comment like this must be coming from a native Thai ( like myself). It's neither good or bad comment.....they're the facts that I had grown up and and had lived with for many many years.

Some want to believe or not to ...do it at your discretion.

In case the poster is an expat then I reckon he/she must be live in TL for quite sometimes and has most of his/her circle of Thai friends from elite or high educated Thais. That's exactly the same pictures that these elites see.

"CarlBangkok' thumbed up for you for having an excellent sense of observing.

[Tinkelbell]

quoted....."What a complete crock. You may have to rethink a few of your "honest generalisations" if Thailand gets another regime like Phibun Songkram's....".

........................................................................

"Where is Phibun Songkram now ? Death more than 50 yrs ago.

I posted a long time ago about how Phibun kicked out all the chinese living in Lopburi in the '40's.

Now it's different time, different face, different attitude...etc

Dream on.

[endure]

It's just another form of racism.

[sokal]

My splay toed Isaan farm girl wife had a nasty accident on her motorbike the other week. It resulted in quite a loss of blood. A miracle awaited, though, as it turned out the donor of the replacement blood was Thai-Chinese! Since having Thai-Chinese blood in her veins, my wife has been a much better person. And her nose even seems to be becoming less flat.

..but my wife's nose is kind of flat, and she has a fearsome temper

..when we are young we are all usually taught from our parents NOT to worry or care what the other person has

..i do not believe that certain types of Thai women are better than others: i respect them whether they are bg's, 100% thai, thai chinese.. whatever..

.. I am honest to a fault..so if someone may not believe me when i say i respect Thai women, regardless of race, creed, background, socio economic situation,etc.. well each are entitled to their own opinion

if you are so proud of your thai chinese girl then why do you have a farang on your avatar ?

I didn't know it was something to be proud of, my X was Thai chinese.

[StreetCowboy]

Racial profiling is an essential element to stereotyping, and forming effective prejudices and bigotry. Without clear racial stereotypes, where would we be? How would we live our lives?

I think that every poster should state their race, and that of their spouses and girlfriends, in descending order of seniority.

To make it simpler, a pantone code would be useful.

SC

EDIT: typo corrected

That's very PC cowboy. So we should keep quiet if certain races possess characteristics widely acknowledged as commonplace? Stereotyping might not always lead to bigotry. Some stereotypes are indeed positive, amazingly enough. Some races can even have a laugh at their own stereotyped characteristics and accept them as true. There are differences between nations and races and regions in the world, and some people out there identify them. How brazen and tactful they are when broadcasting them is a different matter.

There's nothing wrong with being thorough and systematic. I just worrry that the loose taxonomy that most posters use when trying to present their racism can lead to confusion and misunderstanding.

I suppose I should have said "...prejudices or bigotry." Similarly in your post "...brazen or tactful...".

SC

[sanook2me]

It's simple. Thai Chinese have a reputation that differs from the indiginous. Some like them, some don't. Some find them attractive, some don't. Here are a few honest generalisations as to why they are perceived to be "better".

Fewer Thais make the assumption that a girl looking more Chinese/white is a bargirl or farang-hunter. There's a good reason for that.

Thai Chinese make an interesting and attractive physical mix to Thais.

Thai Chinese girls are less likely to make a play for men, especially foreigners, even if they like them. They are in demand already.

Thai Chinese are brought up with some of the stricter moral codes of their parents.

Thai Chinese are in the top jobs. They have more intelligence passed down in the genes and parents can often afford to give them better/further education.

Thai Chinese often live with their parents until marriage (referring to Bangkok), study in Bangkok and then work in Bangkok. They're on a tighter leash when it comes to nightlife and relationships.

Thai AND Thai Chinese men find Thai Chinese girls more attractive and more eligible as partners for the above reasons. Darker-skinned indiginous Thai girls know this. Draw your conclusion. Pure Chinese are generally not as appealing.

Thai Chinese girls are more difficult to attract.

A few foreigners think it's more worthwhile (especially after being here for a while) others prefer a possibly lower-maintenance option. Whatever social and communicative level you seek depends on who you end up with. Thais assume that foreigners will only be with the lower classes...who happen to mostly be dark/country/indiginous because that's what they always see, it's not the Thais' fault, but expect to be ridiculed for it. Thais are surprised when they see a foreigner with a girl whom they perceive as much more attractive, higher social grade and intelligent. A few foreigners are also surprised when they see this phenomenon!

Spot on in my opinion...

Having had Thai Chinese g/f'sin the past...your post pidgeon holes their life perfectly and having an up country g/f also in the past it also sums up her life..

Well said..

Those Chinese Thai educated girls are great to look at but when it comes to having fun and a strong personality.... they are poodles! and this is from my experiences not from reading forums or watching soap operas...

Well said carl...

[cognos]

"..if you are so proud of your thai chinese girl then why do you have a farang on your avatar ?

"..I didn't know it was something to be proud of, my X was Thai chinese..."

You like them too eh? I like Thai women PERIOD.. I think most male farang on TV feel the same, including you I am certain.

signed: time to change my avatar..been lazy

[outback200]

One thing I would like to mention, is why people of Chinese ancestry in Thailand have not retained their Chinese name. In every other country that the Chinese have settled, ie Malaysia, Singapore, they have not changed their surnames to comply with the locals. If they are so proud of their heritage, I would have thought the family name would be retained and used.

[outback200]

Going off topic a bit, but I have wondered why black and asian people born in the home countries of the British Isles, don't refer to themselves as English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh. Just British.

[cognos]

One thing I would like to mention, is why people of Chinese ancestry in Thailand have not retained their Chinese name. In every other country that the Chinese have settled, ie Malaysia, Singapore, they have not changed their surnames to comply with the locals. If they are so proud of their heritage, I would have thought the family name would be retained and used.

My wife's family all have chinese nicknames, for what it's worth

[whichschool]

Thing is OP if you take your Thai/Chinese girl overseas no matter what country you go to people when they find out she's Thai will automatically presume there is a good chance she's a mail order bride or a hooker, so no need to think youre above it all just yet.

[cognos]

Thing is OP if you take your Thai/Chinese girl overseas no matter what country you go to people when they find out she's Thai will automatically presume there is a good chance she's a mail order bride or a hooker, so no need to think youre above it all just yet.

don't I know it.. thanks for the heads up

signed: preaching to the converted

[outback200]

Cognos, why dos'nt your wife's family have a Chinese surname? Somewhere along the line they adopted a Thai surname. If they are so proud of being Chinese I would have thought they would have retained the Chinese name so everyone would know their origin. In Malaysia they did not change their surnames.

I think the Thai Chinese are not proud to be Chinese, only on Chinese New Year.

[StateSix]

Cognos, why dos'nt your wife's family have a Chinese surname? Somewhere along the line they adopted a Thai surname. If they are so proud of being Chinese I would have thought they would have retained the Chinese name so everyone would know their origin. In Malaysia they did not change their surnames.

I think the Thai Chinese are not proud to be Chinese, only on Chinese New Year.

I may well be wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that they were forced to change to Thai surnames by law, if they wanted to become Thai citizens. They had to be new surnames also, hence why there are so many long ones.

[cognos]

"..I think the Thai Chinese are not proud to be Chinese, only on Chinese New Year..."

I would concur with that generalization, however there are other chinese holidays/"special days"/events ( like one last Monday) my relatives in Phuket also observe, on general principal for the most part I would assume, not so much out of "pride"

[flying]

Cognos, why dos'nt your wife's family have a Chinese surname? Somewhere along the line they adopted a Thai surname. If they are so proud of being Chinese I would have thought they would have retained the Chinese name so everyone would know their origin. In Malaysia they did not change their surnames.

I think the Thai Chinese are not proud to be Chinese, only on Chinese New Year.

Well there is a 50/50 chance that a Thai man once married a Chinese girl & she took his name eh?

Then also the other political mentioned reason....

In some cases, such as Chinese Indonesians and Chinese Thais, certain ethnic groups are subject to political pressure to change their surnames, in which case surnames can lose their family-name meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surname

Edited March 10, 2010 by flying

[jetjock]

Cognos, why dos'nt your wife's family have a Chinese surname? Somewhere along the line they adopted a Thai surname. If they are so proud of being Chinese I would have thought they would have retained the Chinese name so everyone would know their origin. In Malaysia they did not change their surnames.

I think the Thai Chinese are not proud to be Chinese, only on Chinese New Year.

I may well be wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that they were forced to change to Thai surnames by law, if they wanted to become Thai citizens. They had to be new surnames also, hence why there are so many long ones.

Both of my wife's grandfathers were Chinese however never mentions it when asked about her ancestry as she is so extremely proud to be Thai. I did not learn that she was half Chinese until one day when we happened to get into a conversation about her deceased grandfathers. I originally could not understand how she had a Thai surname with her grandfathers being Chinese until I did some internet research. The following paragraphs helped explain the reason to me:

"By 1910, nearly 10 percent of Thailand's population was Chinese. Moreover, the new arrivals frequently came in families and resisted assimilation. Chinese nationalism, encouraged by Sun Yat-sen, the leader of the Chinese revolution, had also begun to develop, parallel with Thai nationalism. The Chinese community even supported a separate school system for its children.

Legislation by King Rama VI was enacted in 1913 that required the adoption of Thai surnames was largely directed at easing tensions with Chinese community by encouraging assimilation. Thai Chinese had to choose between forsaking their Chinese identity or being regarded as foreigners. Most opted to become Thai ... Nevertheless, the Chinese were still encouraged to become Thai citizens, and by 1970 it was estimated that more than 90 percent of the Chinese born in Thailand had done so." (http://www.answers.com/topic/thai-chinese)

[mizzi39]

What is this fixation with Chinese and why do you think their blood is somehow better? My wife is 100% Chinese blood, born in Vietnam, reared most of her life in Thailand. Sometimes she's a pain in the ass and sometimes she's saintly. She is Thai, as is you wife. Take your eugenics thread elsewhere.

These countries are all artificial constructs anyway, so get the @* over it.

After reading two exhausting pages and trying to make sense of this OP, I have to agree with you 'lannarebirth', but then again it's in the general topics forum where most of the useless posts end up anyway.

[outback200]

Many Chinese came after the WW2, were they encouraged or forced to adopt thai surnames?

[BlackArtemis]

Cognos, why dos'nt your wife's family have a Chinese surname? Somewhere along the line they adopted a Thai surname. If they are so proud of being Chinese I would have thought they would have retained the Chinese name so everyone would know their origin. In Malaysia they did not change their surnames.

I think the Thai Chinese are not proud to be Chinese, only on Chinese New Year.

Well there is a 50/50 chance that a Thai man once married a Chinese girl & she took his name eh?

Then also the other political mentioned reason....

Funny how that works huh? My wife is Thai with a Chinese Maiden name and a western surname and who knows what will happen in the next generation.

Outback: As for not being proud, go hang out in some of the Chinese neighborhoods, it's no different than the many americans who still hold fast to their Irish, Italian, Dutch, German, Swedish, Etc roots. Some are more deeply rooted than others, but it is evident.

[outback200]

After working in Hong Kong for 3 years, I can't see anything flash about telling everyone your from a Chinese background. The most ignorant people I've ever met.

[cognos]

Many Chinese came after the WW2, were they encouraged or forced to adopt thai surnames?

the government "forced" them to adapt Thai surnames..

signed: coercion

[Svenn]

Thing is OP if you take your Thai/Chinese girl overseas no matter what country you go to people when they find out she's Thai will automatically presume there is a good chance she's a mail order bride or a hooker, so no need to think youre above it all just yet.

Exactly, I'm afraid this hits the nail on the head. I've always found the TV members boasting about their jeen brides/gfs to be simply comical... c'mon guys... outside of SE Asia, Thailand is just a scrappy tiny little country bordering on the third world. The fact that farangs there are making distinctions and grades between the little native people is ridiculous. A Thai-Chinese is just a 'chinaman' to the rest of the world, a sao isaan is just a 'gook'. I of course don't agree with this, but I just returned from a holiday with my isaan gf to Los Angeles and there the dark skinned asians are the hip ones at top of the social ladder, as they were in my high school and university... and some thai-chinese girl that thinks she's the shit in bkk is just another nerdy white-girl wannabe in LA. These are the generalizations people make (again, not saying I do). You've been watching thai tv or looking at thai ads too much if you can only appreciate jeen beauty...if thai marketers actually made an attempt to advertise and boast hot dark-skinned girls, then you'd remember why you came to thailand in the first place. There are stunning thai chinese girls AND stunning isaan girls.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Svenn

[chrisll]

Thing is OP if you take your Thai/Chinese girl overseas no matter what country you go to people when they find out she's Thai will automatically presume there is a good chance she's a mail order bride or a hooker, so no need to think youre above it all just yet.

Exactly, I'm afraid this hits the nail on the head. I've always found the TV members boasting about their jek brides/gfs to be simply comical... c'mon guys... outside of SE Asia, Thailand is just a scrappy tiny little country bordering on the third world. The fact that farangs there are making distinctions and grades between the little native people is ridiculous. A Thai-Chinese is just a 'chinaman' to the rest of the world, a sao isaan is just a 'gook'. I of course don't agree with this, but I just returned from a holiday with my isaan gf to Los Angeles and there the dark skinned asians are the hip ones at top of the social ladder, as they were in my high school and university... and some thai-chinese girl that thinks she's the shit in bkk is just another nerdy white-girl wannabe. These are the generalizations people make (again, not saying I do). You've been watching thai tv or looking at thai ads too much if you can only appreciate jeen beauty...if thai marketers actually made an attempt to advertise and boast hot dark-skinned girls, then you'd remember why you came to thailand in the first place. There are stunning thai chinese girls AND stunning isaan girls.

thai dont think we can get the chinese thai girls and also dont like it when we do,thais think they are higher class.thais think ayone who is white is of higher class

[Sing_Sling]

Considering that the vast majority of Thais are ethnically Chinese, with some Burmese and/or Lao thrown in (though they are ethnically Chinese anyway), the term Thai Chinese does make sense if they want to differentiate themselves from their 'brethren'

In the UK you have Welsh, Scots, English and even Irish . . . why can the same not be applied in Thailand?!

To those who use the term to raise themselves above their dark-skin brethren . . .

To those who feel inadequate if someone uses the term because they have an Isaan bride . . .

[F1fanatic]

The vast majority of women in un-reputable occupations come from Isaan. If you think this is just a myth, check it out at your local bar.

Unfortunately this reflects badly on everyone from Isaan as the girl’s parents are happy to see her take this route - as evidenced by the way the family are overjoyed when their daughter comes home with a farang b/f.

Those families that would be horrified by their daughter entering an un-reputable occupation would similarly be concerned at their daughter turning up with a farang b/f.

I’m not sure whether the Thai’s dislike of Isaan people is for this reason or because Isaan is a poor region, and Thais respect money.

Thai-Chinese are immediately assumed to be wealthy and hard-working, not always the case - but the belief then follows that the girl comes from a wealthy background and is not marrying for money.