6,000 Guns And Explosives Stolen From Thai Army Barracks

[hammered]

A bunch of weapons including M16s, AK47s and bombs have been found in a restaurant in Nakornchaisri according to a TAN report.

It shouldn't be so difficult to ascertain that these were part of the Pattalung booty - should it? (serial numbers etc). Really, the idea of military weaponry- especially grenades- turning up in private homes (or restaurants- is hardly new and may have nothing to do with the Pattalung arsenal. Or --- it may.

Certainly this bit of info will, among some, reinforce the notion that all hel_l is going to break loose on Friday creating a climate amenable to a coup. These next few days will be crucial test--- of the media.

What I dont understand is that the media are in a frenzy about revolutions and killings and blood, the reds and the PTP are mobilising like crazy with some mixed messages, weapons seem to be disppearing and/or being found and yet the government seem quite calm and the PM is even taking a trip abroad. Someone must be misreading the situation

[DocHolliday]

6000 weapons? Sounds like misinformation to me. Timing is perfect, too perfect.

IIRC that figure was reported in the Thai press too

[webfact]

post containing vulgarity removed.

Please keep the topic civil

[blaze]

A bunch of weapons including M16s, AK47s and bombs have been found in a restaurant in Nakornchaisri according to a TAN report.

It shouldn't be so difficult to ascertain that these were part of the Pattalung booty - should it? (serial numbers etc). Really, the idea of military weaponry- especially grenades- turning up in private homes (or restaurants- is hardly new and may have nothing to do with the Pattalung arsenal. Or --- it may.

Certainly this bit of info will, among some, reinforce the notion that all hel_l is going to break loose on Friday creating a climate amenable to a coup. These next few days will be crucial test--- of the media.

What I dont understand is that the media are in a frenzy about revolutions and killings and blood, the reds and the PTP are mobilising like crazy with some mixed messages, weapons seem to be disppearing and/or being found and yet the government seem quite calm and the PM is even taking a trip abroad. Someone must be misreading the situation

The popular acquiesence to the previous coup was created in part by two events- one was Annands warning that Thailand was on the precipice of becoming a 'faiiled state' (the definition of which includes the inability of the government to rely on the military as a cohesive and effective force)- and the other was the prospect of a bunch of armed forest rangers descending on the city.

Here- in one stroke we have the same scenario being presented- a military so beset by internal rifts that it can't even provide adequate security for its own warehouses--- and the presence of (at least) 6000 assault rifles being distributed throughout some segments of the population- just days before the big 'event'.

If someone wanted to inspire public appetite for a coup- news reports like this, if recent history is anything to go by, certainly have their place.

Edited March 8, 2010 by blaze

[hammered]

A bunch of weapons including M16s, AK47s and bombs have been found in a restaurant in Nakornchaisri according to a TAN report.

It shouldn't be so difficult to ascertain that these were part of the Pattalung booty - should it? (serial numbers etc). Really, the idea of military weaponry- especially grenades- turning up in private homes (or restaurants- is hardly new and may have nothing to do with the Pattalung arsenal. Or --- it may.

Certainly this bit of info will, among some, reinforce the notion that all hel_l is going to break loose on Friday creating a climate amenable to a coup. These next few days will be crucial test--- of the media.

What I dont understand is that the media are in a frenzy about revolutions and killings and blood, the reds and the PTP are mobilising like crazy with some mixed messages, weapons seem to be disppearing and/or being found and yet the government seem quite calm and the PM is even taking a trip abroad. Someone must be misreading the situation

The popular acquiesence to the previous coup was created in part by two events- one was Annands warning that Thailand was on the precipice of becoming a 'faiiled state' (the definition of which includes the inability of the government to rely on the military as a cohesive and effective force)- and the other was the prospect of a bunch of armed forest rangers descending on the city.

Here- in one stroke we have the same scenario being presented- a military so beset by internal rifts that it can't even provide adequate security for its own warehouses--- and the presence of (at least) 6000 assault rifles being distributed throughout some segments of the population- just days before the big 'event'.

If someone wanted to inspire public appetite for a coup- news reports like this, if recent history is anything to go by, certainly have their place.

I can see that. What I cant understand is why the government and Abhisit inparticular are so calm. They could be facing a coup, a revolution, a no-confidence vote. That would freak me out!

Coup before or after violence. I wonder what works best? Theroetically speaking of course.

I think people in general have had enough of all the shenanigans and most would accept whatever it takes to bring stability, which could of course be many things.

[OZEMADE]

To create havoc at the march, 6 automatic weapons would be enough. 60 would be unthinkable.

The reds don't need 6000 guns to get the army to attack them. But, you need 6000 guns to attack the army.

I don't believe for one second that there are going to be 6000 guns hidden among the crowds at the march.

Well the alleged 20,000 Monks could spread them around under their robes.

[Samuian]

Ban any news reporting, monument's being built public gathering promoting Thaksin and the red "pro-democracy" movement !

The mentioning of building monuments, send a clear message all he is concerned about that he is afraid of sinking into the abyss of

oblivion!

Edited March 8, 2010 by Samuian

[NTGuy]

This is so obviously an inside job. 6,000 rifles plus explosives is a large amount of gear. It would have required several trucks, plus cargo handlers to remove the weapons. So there are a lot of people out there who know what happened. Plus in any serious army (a designation that may exclude the Thai military) there is a system of tracking what goes into and out of an armory. Where is the paper trail? Where documents faked, or did armory workers and base personnel just look the other way while several truckloads of weapons walked themselves out the door?

One of the more irritating aspects of living in Thailand is the way no one is ever held responsible for anything. The base commander and the head of security at the armory should both be sacked and brought up on charges of dereliction of duty.

[fabianfred]

All these news stories which helpfully guide readers into making the 'correct' assumptions. It's a real life 'Wag the Dog'.

Just as the Govt dressed up 'false' red-shirts to make them look bad.... I doubt if anything has really gone missing...just trying to look for any excuse to stop the people getting what they want...this Govt out.

[lovelomsak]

I have a wild thought here. What if the weapons were given to the PAD. So when the million person march is on PAD opens fire to prove who has the power and can do what they please. Many red shirts are killed the movement is over and everyone says they donot know who did such a hideous crime.LIES LIES LIES I think we will find out soon enough who has those weapons.

It would be like shooting fish in a barrel so easy.

Edited March 8, 2010 by lovelomsak

[otherstuff1957]

Weapons given to PAD... Government frame up...

Before we engage in any further wild speculation, can anyone confirm the original story? Here's a quote from the National News Bureau of Thailand:

About 3,000 cartridges and 67 grenades were earlier stolen from the arms depot in the Aphai Borirak military camp in the southern province of Phattalung on 2 March 2010.

Here's a quote from the Nation:

the stolen weapons included M-67 grenades -

... but no mention of any rifles!

Here's a quote from the Bangkok Post:

A highly-placed security source said the weapons and ammunition stolen included about 2,000 rounds for M16 and HK rifles, about 1,000 rounds for an 11mm pistol, and about 20 anti-personnel M26 and M67 grenades.

Here's MCOT News:

Pol Col Suwat Tangkuha superintendent of a local police station reported to the governor that about 3,000 cartridges and 20 grenades were stolen from the arms depot in the Aphai Borirak military camp on March 2.

In fact the only places I can find any mention of stolen rifles is right here on ThaiVisa (and in blogs quoting TV).

I suppose that it is too much to ask that the original post be verified?

[Bard]

Always fun to read sensational scary news. Like the last years killer flu supposed to kill millions by xmas.

Like people stated before the 6k rifles would take some serious hauling to move. Not even sure the Army has 6k rifles in storage in one place, I mean unused stored guns. Don't think any army store that many guns in one location, it would be too detrimental impact if someone took it, or destroyed it.

Like I stated it's more than plausible that a group could steal the amount via inside information, it is not plausible they would get this from one location however.

Made big time news though, lot's of people went online to check it out.

[bmurlowe]

Weapons given to PAD... Government frame up...

Before we engage in any further wild speculation, can anyone confirm the original story? Here's a quote from the National News Bureau of Thailand:

About 3,000 cartridges and 67 grenades were earlier stolen from the arms depot in the Aphai Borirak military camp in the southern province of Phattalung on 2 March 2010.

Here's a quote from the Nation:

the stolen weapons included M-67 grenades -

... but no mention of any rifles!

Here's a quote from the Bangkok Post:

A highly-placed security source said the weapons and ammunition stolen included about 2,000 rounds for M16 and HK rifles, about 1,000 rounds for an 11mm pistol, and about 20 anti-personnel M26 and M67 grenades.

Here's MCOT News:

Pol Col Suwat Tangkuha superintendent of a local police station reported to the governor that about 3,000 cartridges and 20 grenades were stolen from the arms depot in the Aphai Borirak military camp on March 2.

In fact the only places I can find any mention of stolen rifles is right here on ThaiVisa (and in blogs quoting TV).

I suppose that it is too much to ask that the original post be verified?

Where did the original post come from?

[Scott]

I can't verify where the original post came from, but the theft was widely written about in the Thai Press.

I believe it was also on television, but that I can't confirm.

[bmurlowe]

I can't verify where the original post came from, but the theft was widely written about in the Thai Press.

I believe it was also on television, but that I can't confirm.

Thanks for trying, anyway. Seems very odd, that it is the only source and no one seems to even know where it came from.

I've not seen the 6,000 rifles stolen on any other news source including the Thai newspapers and Thai television news.

I'd be interested in any links, Thai or English, that confirms that 6,000 rifles were stolen.

Edited March 8, 2010 by bmurlowe

[Hawk]

I can't verify where the original post came from, but the theft was widely written about in the Thai Press.

I believe it was also on television, but that I can't confirm.

Yes the story was on the television, and they did say a lot of ammunition had disappeared, along with some grenades, and a few guns.

Few as in few, half a dozen perhaps.

But certainly not 6,000 or even 60.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Hawk

[Scott]

I can't give you a link, but I think it was in Thai Rath on Sunday. I actually had a farang friend who told me, but he is never sure of how well he is reading the Thai (especially newspapers). A Thai friend then checked on the internet version of one of the papers and confirmed what it said.

There was something also in The Nation--it was very, very short and didn't give numbers as I recall.

I had nothing to do with writing the original post so I don't know where it came from, but I have a feeling it was confirmed.

[animatic]

It seems we farangs here take this more seriously than your average Thai does,

so it's just another news story they ignore.

[CrossBones]

Thai Visa scare mongering... got a few hits on the forum no doubt

[caf]

I can't give you a link, but I think it was in Thai Rath on Sunday. I actually had a farang friend who told me, but he is never sure of how well he is reading the Thai (especially newspapers). A Thai friend then checked on the internet version of one of the papers and confirmed what it said.

There was something also in The Nation--it was very, very short and didn't give numbers as I recall.

I had nothing to do with writing the original post so I don't know where it came from, but I have a feeling it was confirmed.

Thanks for trying anyway, Scott

My Thai friends are not that worried ( but then Thais always play things down) and the information they are getting is not as alarmist as we are getting.

The last few posts show that Thaivisa is having a little credibility problem and not only on this thread.

caf

[DickFarang]

This is bad. 6000 weapons (plus ammunition presumably) indicates a well planned and organised theft.

This indicates equally thought out plans for their use.

Somebody is planning for a civil war

Now who might that be?

To put things in perspective and defusing all those who wonder why a theft like this is possible in Thailand?

Last year in nearly all Nato-countries together nearly half a million arms were "mislaid"or not accounted for.

Rifles, pistols, machineguns, 2 MBT's, a 155 mm gun, 4 armed personal carriers, rockets, and more of that fun stuff.

This is excluding the material disappeared in Afghanistan, Iraq and other "war"zones.

And what has disappeared in the former SU, oops!

That said, it is a very disturbing thing!

Do you KNOW this for sure or do you just DREAM this (what they call in Dutch “suck out of your thumb”) ?

[mommysboy]

I'm sure there is a perfectly reasonable exlpanation for this slight loss.

[khundon]

Reminds me of the 18,000 + teak logs that had been cut down illegally in a National park back in 2001/2

They were sent to an army camp and several months later that 18,000 was down to 11,000.

Of course it is so easy to stuff a couple of logs up your jumper and walk past the guards at the gate.

[philw]

Reminds me of the 18,000 + teak logs that had been cut down illegally in a National park back in 2001/2

They were sent to an army camp and several months later that 18,000 was down to 11,000.

Of course it is so easy to stuff a couple of logs up your jumper and walk past the guards at the gate.

I remember that, but the question still remains....

Where did the figure of 6,000 come from ??

phil.

[scotbeve]

Reading the latest (yesterdays newspaper BKK Post), it was a lot of ammo, "some" rifles and 20 or so (or so????) M-grenades... Accountabilty??? Ask the general (and "friend" of Prem) in charge....

[seri thai]

I'll add my two cents. In most militaries around the world, including Thailand one would find that arsenals and unit-level armories alike are guarded with not only human guards and intensive physical security systems, but access to them requires layered access measures and penetrating a minimum of triple-lock security. The arms facility itself is locked with more than one ultra high-security lock and the individual weapon racks are also similarly locked. The keys to these facilities are also very carefully secured and controlled. One poster questioned what an engineer unit was doing housing such items. It is engineer units that customarily use military explosives & demolitions in the accomplishment of their unit missions and they indeed maintain stocks for these purposes.

More to the point though...nobody simply strolls into an arms room or arms depot, and walks away casually, or surrepticiously with 6,000 weapons and explosives. Any insurgent-led attempt to do so would be the cause of a major incident that could not be brushed under the rug..nor would it be. This reeks painfully of an inside job. Identifying those persons in the chain of command who are responsible for the security of these missing arms should be a simple matter; they in turn should be publicly named and charges brought against them for high treason to the state. Placed under intensive interrogation the truth would be bound to emerge. This would include unit-level armorers, supply personel and unit commanders all the way up to and including the seniormost general officer placed in a direct leadership role. Something also tells me that all this will never occur. It is a very sad day for the Royal Thai Army.

This is the level of security a GENERAL can get past quietly,

understand totally, and know how to circumvent quietly.

Especially with a LOT OF MONEY at hand, this is Thailand after all,

you can BUY a brother, sister and their mother to sleep with if you have

a little cash, and more cash can get them to all sleep with you together

for a night and make merit in the morning and forget it happened...

5,000+ cash can get someone killed...

Not much can't be bought here for the right amounts.

'Cash is King' here and Thaksin has been topping up the troupes lately.

So how much for an Issan draftee or non-com or 2nd Lui to look away

when a full general tells you to? With the added promise of reassignment

OUT OF THE DEEP SOUTH. Pretty easy to get someone young and stupid

to go for that deal I suspect. Especially if it matches your politics back home.

Now add a dozen soldier driven military vans to run up some sniper ordinance and explosives,

with the rest to come 'guarded' by soldiers with written orders in uniform...

If a few guys on roof tops start picking off either Red Shirts or Army Conscripts,

and there is a grouping of Monks and women in between the two groups...

well this makes for BAD television. Thaksin DESPERATELY needs this kind of

over the top video to rehabilitate himself to the world... at least in his mindset.

A certain General seems nutty and desperate enough to try this, an old school guerrilla fighter,

if past actions are read properly, possessing has no compunctions whatsoever.

I pray my reading of this is wrong and it IS just coincidental...

Here's another reading for you from Wikipedia:

Khattiya Sawasdipol (born June 2, 1951 at Ratchaburi Province ) (Thai: พลตรี ดร.ขัตติยะ สวัสดิผล), alias Seh Daeng (เสธ.แดง), is a major general in the Royal Thai Army, assigned to the Internal Security Operations Command. He claims to have helped the United States spy on North Vietnam during the Vietnam War, and to have taken part in the CIA-financed "Secret War" against the communists in the Plain of Jars, in Laos. Khattiya disguised himself as a Muslim in order to infiltrate rebel groups in Aceh Indonesia.

Just released on bail after driving a minibus with a wanted criminal false plates and a weapons stash after turning up at a police station...

This and the theft of weapons appear to be the only ïntelligence"produced to hint at forthcoming violence from the red shirts and the only justification put forward for the ISA.

Don't look good, do it?

Edited March 9, 2010 by seri thai

[blaze]

It seems we farangs here take this more seriously than your average Thai does,

so it's just another news story they ignore.

as we should and perhaps would have, had we not been secretly drooling at the prostpect of 6000 stolen military assault rifles locked and loaded in preparation for armageddon.

[hammered]

It seems we farangs here take this more seriously than your average Thai does,

so it's just another news story they ignore.

as we should and perhaps would have, had we not been secretly drooling at the prostpect of 6000 stolen military assault rifles locked and loaded in preparation for armageddon.

I think if someone wanted to trigger events on the weekend it would only take one or two M16s or a couple of explosions used against demonstartors, against police, against soldiers or against those not involved.

[OZEMADE]

Reminds me of the 18,000 + teak logs that had been cut down illegally in a National park back in 2001/2

They were sent to an army camp and several months later that 18,000 was down to 11,000.

Of course it is so easy to stuff a couple of logs up your jumper and walk past the guards at the gate.

I remember that, but the question still remains....

Where did the figure of 6,000 come from ??

It was posted by THAI VISA NEWS, ask them to confirm their source.

phil.

[ballpoint]

Reminds me of the 18,000 + teak logs that had been cut down illegally in a National park back in 2001/2

They were sent to an army camp and several months later that 18,000 was down to 11,000.

Of course it is so easy to stuff a couple of logs up your jumper and walk past the guards at the gate.

Or so they thought until someone figured out that the tooth pick delivery van was actually taking away more than it delivered.