A large number of Thai couples are in a non-registered partnership. What I would call a defacto mariage. In the case of foreigners, does Thailand recognise defacto marriage?

If yes, if a couple go to a Thai Consulate, say for the male partner to get a ED Visa and the female partner for O Visa (to accompany defacto husband)... Consulate asks for marriage certificate. Couple say that they have a defacto marriage. Consulate will not accept application as no marriage certificate. What do they do?

Assuming the Consulate does issue visas... so they are now in Thailand and visit the local Immigration for extension to permit to stay. Immigration ask for marriage certificate but no document available. What do they do?

Anyone had experiences in the above situations?

Thailand only recognizes legally registered Marriages.

Thaiand only recognises official mariages. A civil partnership etc is not recognised as such. As far as immigration is concerned you are either married and have an official marriage certificate or you are considered not married. One will not get an extension as a dependent if not officialy married.

and of course only with translated and confirmed papers.

Interesting comments and much what I expected.

This situation has come before me a number of times in the past few months. On one occasion the couple went to the Australian Embassy and made out Statutory Declaration that they had be in a defacto relationship for x number of years. The Embassy official duly witnessed and put stamp on the document. Said document was accepted by Immigration.

Twice on other occasions, I have suggested that they go to the local Ampur and get married. Worked out fine.

And as told to me by an attorney Thailand does not recognize common law marriage tell after 5 years.

…Said document was accepted by Immigration…

Accepted for what purpose? Are you talking about an Australian man not married to a Thai woman getting a one-year extension of stay for the reason of living with this woman without the need of submitting a marriage certificate to the immigration office?

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Maestro

And as told to me by an attorney Thailand does not recognize common law marriage tell after 5 years.

Thai family law doesn't know any common law marriage. It might be that the courts will find it relevant in splitting property etc. It is however not a marriage and I would be surprised if it went beyond establishing property rights, if any rights are established at all.

…Said document was accepted by Immigration…

Accepted for what purpose? Are you talking about an Australian man not married to a Thai woman getting a one-year extension of stay for the reason of living with this woman without the need of submitting a marriage certificate to the immigration office?

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Maestro

From what I gathered from the OP, I believe this is about an Australian man not married to any woman coming to Thailand on an Ed visa, and his defacto partner wants to come along with him on a non-o, rather than a tourist visa.

Thai family law doesn't know any common law marriage. It might be that the courts will find it relevant in splitting property etc. It is however not a marriage and I would be surprised if it went beyond establishing property rights, if any rights are established at all.

As it regards property rights arising from common law marriages: is there any experience in the TV community how Thai courts have decided on this in the past?

Thai family law doesn't know any common law marriage. It might be that the courts will find it relevant in splitting property etc. It is however not a marriage and I would be surprised if it went beyond establishing property rights, if any rights are established at all.

As it regards property rights arising from common law marriages: is there any experience in the TV community how Thai courts have decided on this in the past?

That is a bit off topic here. Better ask in the family section.

But I don't think many people will have much expereince regarding this. I can only advise to contact isaanlawyers. They will answer easy questions for free and have a good reputation regarding family law.

"As it regards property rights arising from common law marriages: is there any experience in the TV community how Thai courts have decided on this in the past?"

I don't know about the courts, but the banks do not recognize common law marriages.

A large number of Thai couples are in a non-registered partnership. What I would call a defacto mariage. In the case of foreigners, does Thailand recognise defacto marriage?

If yes, if a couple go to a Thai Consulate, say for the male partner to get a ED Visa and the female partner for O Visa (to accompany defacto husband)... Consulate asks for marriage certificate. Couple say that they have a defacto marriage. Consulate will not accept application as no marriage certificate. What do they do?

Assuming the Consulate does issue visas... so they are now in Thailand and visit the local Immigration for extension to permit to stay. Immigration ask for marriage certificate but no document available. What do they do?

Anyone had experiences in the above situations?

if so the population would increase to an estimated 350 000 000 inhabitants

"As it regards property rights arising from common law marriages: is there any experience in the TV community how Thai courts have decided on this in the past?"

I don't know about the courts, but the banks do not recognize common law marriages.

The Thailand Civil and Commercial Code only recognizes a registered marriage. Marital property is defined as property acquired during marriage. There can be no property rights arising from an unregistered, hence common law, marriage for Thai courts to adjudicate..

… I got married in the 90's in Loei but as the Mrs had loads of land we did'nt register it there, Got a marriage cert in Scotland.

You seem to have the erroneous impression that a Thai woman married to a foreigner has restricted rights to own land in Thailand. This is wrong. She loses none of her rights to owns land or any other property in Thailand when she marries a foreigner.

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Maestro

"As it regards property rights arising from common law marriages: is there any experience in the TV community how Thai courts have decided on this in the past?"

I don't know about the courts, but the banks do not recognize common law marriages.

The Thailand Civil and Commercial Code only recognizes a registered marriage. Marital property is defined as property acquired during marriage. There can be no property rights arising from an unregistered, hence common law, marriage for Thai courts to adjudicate..

Yes thats true, I got married in Loei in 1996, but as the Mrs had loads of Land we did not register the marriage. Got a marriage certificate in Scotland when she came on holiday.

… I got married in the 90's in Loei but as the Mrs had loads of land we did'nt register it there, Got a marriage cert in Scotland.

You seem to have the erroneous impression that a Thai woman married to a foreigner has restricted rights to own land in Thailand. This is wrong. She loses none of her rights to owns land or any other property in Thailand when she marries a foreigner.

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Maestro

That was not the case in the 90's though ?

It was.

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Maestro

It was.

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Maestro

Time to grab my slice then............

For most plebs, no they wont.

however I do have a friend and his partner who had luck in this regard, of course they were diplomats posted to the Australian embassy in BKK. She was posted to the Aus embassy and the bloke was given extensions based on their partnership for the entirety of their 3 year posting. Never married, and 4 years after they left, they still aren't!

spongeman, your Scottish marriage is valid also under Thai law. Nevertheless, your wife should make a will regarding her property in Thailand in order to avoid complications after her death.

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Maestro

Actually they would not register new land to a wife of a foreigner in the 90's but if land was owned before marriage it was not effected (although most people did not know that). The way they knew of marriage was by the name change so people did not register marriage here to avoid the ID card name being changed.

As said that is history and there is now only the restriction that land bought during marriage must be in Thai name/money and not part of marriage joint property. This is done with a simple document that the money belongs to Thai and the foreigner understands the property will not be marriage joint property.

spongeman, your Scottish marriage is valid also under Thai law. Nevertheless, your wife should make a will regarding her property in Thailand in order to avoid complications after her death.

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Maestro

Thanks for that.

Actually they would not register new land to a wife of a foreigner in the 90's but if land was owned before marriage it was not effected (although most people did not know that). The way they knew of marriage was by the name change so people did not register marriage here to avoid the ID card name being changed.

As said that is history and there is now only the restriction that land bought during marriage must be in Thai name/money and not part of marriage joint property. This is done with a simple document that the money belongs to Thai and the foreigner understands the property will not be marriage joint property.

That sounds familar, Lopburi.

As she always says, "Whats mine is mine and whats yours is also mine".

Yes, couldn't buy land if married to a farang when we got married in 1980. Hence, she kept her maiden name, and was a "miss" on all subsequent documentation (passport, ID card, etc). And she still is a "miss" on these (maybe the next Thai passport renewal will allow a "Ms" designator -- or no designator at all, like her US passport).

Never saw any need to register the marriage in Thailand, as there has never been any need to present ourselves as married to Thai authorities. As long as the US Air Force and Social Security administration know we're married (for medical, BX, and survivor benefits), we're good-to-go.

I guess holding herself out as a "miss" could be construed as fraudulent. But, since this has caused no ill-gotten gain, doubt it would ever be an issue.

And, should married ever become advantageous in Thailand (legally speaking, of course ), our US marriage certificate, duly dated to 1980, should establish sufficient bona fides.

Obviously she has a will -- to hand over her estate to me -- as far as that goes in Thailand.