Thailand to impose security law for Thaksin protests

[hammered]

Serious escalation in tension seen on this forum too! There are double standards on both sides: PAD/airport, DAAD/songkran; Alpine land and Surayudh land; Thaksin's corruption, corruption of thousands of politicians before him; lies, distortions, propaganda, biased media. How any of us can sit on a high horse and think that our side is blameless and point fingers at the other is beyond me! We all have our prejudices, but how can we have a dialogue if we can't even admit to them? Government needs to work towards an election - free, fair and open to nationwide campaigning, and until that can happen, then I don't think a minority group has the right to topple the government, the anti 'eilite' need to continue peaceful, lawful efforts without disruption of the entire nation or causing harm to innocents, which are the majority of Thais. This is all very worrying. More and more I think many are understanding that there are genuinely real grievances that many reds haev against the establishment, but using Thaksin as a mascot is not doing them any favours, and the violent elements in the red movement should be cut out. Government are going to have to make sure that they do not use any voilence at all or they will lose all credibility. Scary times.

Nice to read a post like this from a Thai person

[ronwparker]

The unbelivable propaganda from post 20 makes more almost laugh if I wan't sick.

I !live in Chiangmai and know what thugs the TRT 51 group are.

So the wrecking of Asian and attempts on the PMs life are non violent plus the violence in BKk?

How can paying people to vote and to demonstrate be democratic-just another example of how warped Taksins values are.

Taksin is power crazy,he is greedy and has lost face so wants to ruin the country-advisor to self confessed Thai hater from Cambodia.

His promises and threats change almost daily.

But this situation will continue whilst there is no welfare state in Thaland.

But in order to get this people must pay their taxes-unlike Mr Taksin

Sadly the uneducated from Isaan and the North are easy for Taksin to convince.

Thank God the UK goverment saw through him and banned him from the UK-I wonder if he has sold his expensive homes in the Uk aswell as Manchester City Football club(for a huge pofit)

[anotherpeter]

This is sadly a truism throughout history, whenever governments turn into oligarchies and no longer represent the interests of the people whose backs they are standing on. Since voting seems to haved turned into an opiate for the masses, and the voters are beginning to realize this, I submit the question, "How would it be possible for the little guy to go about expressing his or her pent up frustration any other way than to rally under the nose of government; as a means to gently warn those people of things to come if the status quo does not make a turnabout?".

Additionally, I simply cannot paint every protesting red-shirted Thai with a broad brush and make them all out to be so ignorant as to follow the "agitators" so much like lemmings. Could this form of agitating simply be a more blunt way of getting out some of the truth? How else will these people come to realize that the water is heating up and they must act before it gets to hot to be able to move; i.e. frog soup.

When the military is pushed forward in lieu of politics with the threat of martial law, it tells me that the bridge has collapsed and that there is no interest in negotiations and seeking a solution. I sincerely believe that a government that represents the people has a moral and ethical responsibility, duty and obligation to make this issue top priority; over anything else; seeing as these are their own people and that this is a matter of national urgency for the well-being of the people, and not the convenience of the oligarchs.

When one side of the negotiations is about bringing back Thaksin and giving him back his money I can understand the lack of interest.

[granuaile]

It seems to me that the actions that occurred last year in Pattaya and Bangkok, as well as statements made by some of their members along with grenade attacks and the planting of bombs in the city within the city in the past few months justify the label of terrorists. These are not just peaceful opponents of the government but a group, factions of which have engaged in and advocated violence to topple the government.

What 'seems' to you justified also makes the label meaningless.  A few burned cars, thrown hand grenades or home made bombs don't make no civil war.  Sorry to burst your bubble but it doesn't even make the front page of any international news network because these things are business as usual in many developing countries.  All the red-shirt rallies I can remember since last years Sonkhran were pretty peaceful.  But since you make 'terrorists' such an all encompassing term, you may also want to take a good hard look at how many 'terrorists' and their movements benefited from your tax-money in the past if you are really that concerned. 

Some of you really seem to have lived a very sheltered life which leads me to the question if you have been so mollycoddled all your life why would you move to a Third World country where things can well, go pear-shaped on the double? 

Any society with a wealth gap as enormous as Thailand and most other developing countries have an equally large potential of social unrest.  When triggered unfortunately these rarely bring about change by just marching peacefully through the streets waving banners and singing 'Kumbaya'.  You should have thought about that before moving here (or anywhere else really).  

Imposing martial law which the ISA pretty much is, is a complete overreaction that will do nothing to address the fundamental issues of wealth and power distribution in this country.  Sure, all the 'law-and-order' types on here will be happy now that 'normality' has been restored and they can carry on drinking their shanties whilst watching the sundown from their verandas without the fear some mob might trample over their manicured lawns. 

No one said it made a civil war, at least not me. But in most countries any of these acts would be labeled terrorist. Attacking the car with the PM in with the intent to cause him bodily harm was not terrorist? Attacking the Asean summit was not terrorist? Parking gasoline trucks in front of residential housing and trying to blow it up was not terrorist? Driving by Bangkok residents and murdering two of them was not terrorist? Attacking mosques was not terrorist? If s a guard had been killed in the bank bombings that would not be terrorist? Sorry but it seems terrorism to me. I'm sorry I don't see it as an overreaction but rather a sensible move to invoke the ISA.

[webfact]

one post deleted.

Politicians have a proper name.

read the posting Guidelines

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/News-Clippin...es-t327489.html

Ignore the Guidelines if you need a suspension.

[Brewsta]

InSaneAct: aka ISA...........toothless orphan bit of legislation then, NOT!

1984 26 years late,IMO.

Stay Low, y'All,

Brewsta

Edited March 8, 2010 by Brewsta

[Bruce1]

It obviously has the potential to allow a massive over-reaction. Lets hope they have nothing to over-react to, and it stays peaceful.

[iwok]

Terrorism! Danger! Insurgents! Violence!

The military reports that 6,000 assault rifles and additional explosives were discovered missing from a weapons depot.

Independent verification?

Records of serial numbers to prove that they existed?

Security tapes showing the theft of this weaponry by unidentifiable masked men?

That the military is so grossly incompotent as to allow this many weapons to slip away in the night should be more than enough to convince any rational person that giving them more, and possibly limitless powers just might be a poor decision.

Now there's a call for essentially military rule of law, and the obvious and rapid connection between these 2 events (wouldn't it have been a bit more convincing to wait at least a few more days?) suggests blatant falsification and fear-mongering.

The ISOC has held, since the illegal coup of 2006, the ultimate power in Thailand, and any threat to that power (and what else can you call a group named the United Front For Democracy Against Dictatorship?) will be met with resistance, guaranteed.

What better resistance than convincing the public that military rule is needed to protect against insurgents / militants / radicals / terrorists / anarchists / islamic fundamentalists / communists / land-grabbing Cambodians or any other buzz-word Bogeyman?

Can't we do any better?

Think about it.

[Jingthing]

No reasonable government in the world would sit back and allow free rein to a violent terrorist movement massing in their capital. If you actually believe the red shirts are a peaceful movement, I would agree with you. However, I think the proof is overwhelming that they are a violent movement willing to do anything to achieve their goals. That is simply not acceptable.

Are you an American? You sure sound like an American. Terrified of terrorists. Anyone not your ally is a terrorist. Terrorists have no rights. If I say someone is a terrorist, he/she is a terrorist and must be imprisoned to keep me safe. Maybe we could get Liz Cheney to come over and give seminars on how to deal with terrorists. Americans know a lot about how to deal with terrorists. Just ask any Republican.

Foul, dude.

Be careful, be very careful about making idiotic assumptions about what people of various nationalities think. Yes, I am American, and let us explore that a bit.

-- I am an American who thinks George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney are war criminals who should be locked up

-- I also think Thaksin should be charged with thousands of extra-judicial murders against his own people

-- I am an American who thinks that fear of terrorism has been used very effectively to suppress the freedoms of my people and for cynical political gains (and profits)

-- I am an American who will always believe Bush stole the presidency from Gore in 2000 so he was not a legitimate president in the first place. This point is very relevant to the Thai situation now. Yes I know many red shirts Thais passionately feel Abhisit is not a legit PM. But in my case, even though I felt Gore should have put up a fight, I never for one second thought the pro-Gore forces should --

attack the life and property of GW Bush

break up international conferences

threaten to light gas trucks in urban slums

throw bombs at banks

defend pro-Gore people who would be arrested for promoting violence and bombing

throw Molotov cocktails

effect political murders (as in Chiang Mai, etc.)

burn buses, etc. etc. etc.

continue to support Gore if he was convicted of massive corruption and also fled the country like a coward to avoid facing the consequences (as Thaksin, the leader of the red shirts, has)

So be clear on this, my politics (US and Thai) are consistent and logical and I am not the stereotyped ugly American you clearly love to hate.

Edited March 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[tominbkk]

It is needed. Well done.

Stop talking rubbish, this is thailand and the thai,s have a right to demonstrate how they chose fit,this is one sure way of over reaction, when will us farang just keep our mouths shut and mind our own business,

Oh yeah....free to shoot unarmed civilians, threaten to blow up gas trucks, roll publicly owned vehicles towards people and things, attack public officials, disrupt and threaten the security of international conferences, threaten to kill, bomb, shoot, destroy.

Have you so quickly forgotten last Songkran?

[Thanh-BKK]

It is interesting that everyone refer to this as Thaksin rally not uud or democracy rally

Hi.

That is because this rally has nothing at all to do with democracy. It is all about Thaksin and his money, fullstop.

"Democracy" is what they have right now - the current PM is from a party aptly named "The Democrat Party" and the current government was in fact democratically elected, without having to pay the voters in cash for their votes like a couple of other parties under Thaksin did.

If they truly wanted some different kind of democracy all they have to do is wait for the next election and show Abhisit the red card, literally. And in the meantime give the guy a chance and let him govern for the better of everyone. Having mobs in the streets doesn't do good for anybody and certainly not for the image of the country. They could spend their time and energy getting an irrigation system built in Isan (see another topic).

But no - Thaksin knows very well how to control a small bunch of followers and have them find more followers (something every religious sect is successful at), money talks, and most of those red-shirted people indeed only notice the 200 Baht they get today, they can't see beyond next week..... education, or rather lack thereof, plays a big role there. Thaksin would do everything to keep that exact system in place, to make sure he has a country full of sheep to follow him without questioning his motives (which there are greed, greed and more greed).

Sorry if i have offended anyone, yes i am on the yellow side but i strongly detested any acts of violence from them, too, when they happened. And i know they DID happen, there is no point in denying. However in terms of violence, the reds still lead the yellows by a huge margin.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[WhisperingJack]

"Thailand to impose security law for Thaksin protests"

Has ISA been enacted or is this just more scaremongering.

I think Mr T and redshirt leaders want ISA imposed so then when only 5,000 supporters turn out they can claim that the other 995,000 were stopped from coming because of the ISA.

Don't fall for it Abi.

This is the only chance you will have to prove once and for all that Mr T supporters were only there while they though they could have thier palms crossed with silver.

[mca]

Suan Dusit Poll said nearly half of all Bangkok residents did not want the rally to take place and one in three said they feared violence would erupt as past mass rallies had ended with bloodshed.

Which history has quite often shown to be the authorities mowing down innocents.

[WhisperingJack]

It is interesting that everyone refer to this as Thaksin rally not uud or democracy rally

Hi.

That is because this rally has nothing at all to do with democracy. It is all about Thaksin and his money, fullstop.

"Democracy" is what they have right now - the current PM is from a party aptly named "The Democrat Party" and the current government was in fact democratically elected, without having to pay the voters in cash for their votes like a couple of other parties under Thaksin did.

If they truly wanted some different kind of democracy all they have to do is wait for the next election and show Abhisit the red card, literally. And in the meantime give the guy a chance and let him govern for the better of everyone. Having mobs in the streets doesn't do good for anybody and certainly not for the image of the country. They could spend their time and energy getting an irrigation system built in Isan (see another topic).

But no - Thaksin knows very well how to control a small bunch of followers and have them find more followers (something every religious sect is successful at), money talks, and most of those red-shirted people indeed only notice the 200 Baht they get today, they can't see beyond next week..... education, or rather lack thereof, plays a big role there. Thaksin would do everything to keep that exact system in place, to make sure he has a country full of sheep to follow him without questioning his motives (which there are greed, greed and more greed).

Sorry if i have offended anyone, yes i am on the yellow side but i strongly detested any acts of violence from them, too, when they happened. And i know they DID happen, there is no point in denying. However in terms of violence, the reds still lead the yellows by a huge margin.

Best regards.....

Thanh

You have hit the nail squarely on the head. This is all about a megalomanic. wanting to return to power to rip more money off the Thai people. not Democarcy.

[toptuan]

I'm traveling to BKK from Isaan (flying) on the 12th to receive a foreign visitor from the Philippines for 5 days in Bangkok (plan to do all the "tourist" stuff). Was booked months ago. Am I crazy to follow through with my plans?

[gbswales]

The fundamental problem is that at least half the population (probably a much higer percentage in reality) see nothing wrong with corruption since it has been the way of life for years. Most people would rather pay the police than be prosecuted or simply pay an official rather than go through application procedures to build something......for those people Thaksin being corrupt and making money on the side was perfectly acceptabel, almost good business practice. When I look at how complicated life is in the west then I am not altogether sure they are not right in believing that corruption is more straightforward.

[anotherpeter]

Suan Dusit Poll said nearly half of all Bangkok residents did not want the rally to take place and one in three said they feared violence would erupt as past mass rallies had ended with bloodshed.

Which history has quite often shown to be the authorities mowing down innocents.

How did the 2 innocents die in the Songkran riots last year?

[elcent]

I'm traveling to BKK from Isaan (flying) on the 12th to receive a foreign visitor from the Philippines for 5 days in Bangkok (plan to do all the "tourist" stuff). Was booked months ago. Am I crazy to follow through with my plans?

The Interior Ministry's Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Department has issued a warning to people in 42 provinces in the North, Northeast and Central regions to braced for tropical storms that may hit the regions between March 8 and 12. It may cause damage to lives and properties.

[cougar52]

If you actually believe the red shirts are a peaceful movement, I would agree with you. However, I think the proof is overwhelming that they are a violent movement willing to do anything to achieve their goals. That is simply not acceptable.

No,but they have the majority in the 2 last elections.

Very wrong you are. The Taksin's party did NOT have the majority. It only became the majority by coalition with some small parties. Once these small parties defected and moved to work with the democrats, the democrats became the majority. That is exactly the point the reds rigorously overlook. Their beloved Taksin and his party NEVER had the necessary majority.

So, what you are saying is that the Junta written constitution, the changed laws, the bribed witnesses, the appointed judiciary that all caused the end of the TRT and PPP had no effect on the Democrats getting into power??

[mca]

(mca @ 2010-03-08 18:26:07) *

Suan Dusit Poll said nearly half of all Bangkok residents did not want the rally to take place and one in three said they feared violence would erupt as past mass rallies had ended with bloodshed.

Which history has quite often shown to be the authorities mowing down innocents.

How did the 2 innocents die in the Songkran riots last year?

Just pointing out that most bloodshed at mass rallies has usually been at the hands of the authorities in Thai history.

[elcent]

WHO IS LYING? MEDIA HERE AND ELSEWHERE REPORT "ISA" AS A GIVEN FACT AND ABHISIT REPORTED TO HIS "MAJESTY THE KING" THAT THERE'S NO ISA INTENDED. WHO'S LYING TO WHOM?

Is it possible this article was written before the ISA was declared at about 2:00pm.

It's obvious that the media like the Nation play the zig-zag too. No time stamp with their postings which is freely available with every CMS system but was obviously disabled.

[anotherpeter]

If you actually believe the red shirts are a peaceful movement, I would agree with you. However, I think the proof is overwhelming that they are a violent movement willing to do anything to achieve their goals. That is simply not acceptable.

No,but they have the majority in the 2 last elections.

Very wrong you are. The Taksin's party did NOT have the majority. It only became the majority by coalition with some small parties. Once these small parties defected and moved to work with the democrats, the democrats became the majority. That is exactly the point the reds rigorously overlook. Their beloved Taksin and his party NEVER had the necessary majority.

So, what you are saying is that the Junta written constitution, the changed laws, the bribed witnesses, the appointed judiciary that all caused the end of the TRT and PPP had no effect on the Democrats getting into power??

Actually, I thought he was saying that Thaksin's parties did not get a majority in the last 2 elections.

They were able to form government by forming a coalition with some of the smaller parties to get the majority. When the Thaksin parties were banned (this is where your rant is applied), the Democrats formed a coalition with the smaller parties to get the majority.

[747man]

I'm guessing that this will mostly affect Bangkok and those of us outside Bangkok will just see a few extra road blocks.

I can only imagine that the police themselves won't be too keen to implement this in pro-Taksin areas such as Chiang Mai and Issan.

I wonder if this will prompt foreign countries to again recommend their citizens to avoid Thailand

Quite a FEW Already have done so.......Where have you been for the past Month or So ????

[RKASA]

No reasonable government in the world would sit back and allow free rein to a violent terrorist movement massing in their capital. If you actually believe the red shirts are a peaceful movement, I would agree with you. However, I think the proof is overwhelming that they are a violent movement willing to do anything to achieve their goals. That is simply not acceptable.

Are you an American? You sure sound like an American. Terrified of terrorists. Anyone not your ally is a terrorist. Terrorists have no rights. If I say someone is a terrorist, he/she is a terrorist and must be imprisoned to keep me safe. Maybe we could get Liz Cheney to come over and give seminars on how to deal with terrorists. Americans know a lot about how to deal with terrorists. Just ask any Republican.

Foul, dude.

Be careful, be very careful about making idiotic assumptions about what people of various nationalities think. Yes, I am American, and let us explore that a bit.

-- I am an American who thinks George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, and Dick Cheney are war criminals who should be locked up

-- I also think Thaksin should be charged with thousands of extra-judicial murders against his own people

-- I am an American who thinks that fear of terrorism has been used very effectively to suppress the freedoms of my people and for cynical political gains (and profits)

-- I am an American who will always believe Bush stole the presidency from Gore in 2000 so he was not a legitimate president in the first place. This point is very relevant to the Thai situation now. Yes I know many red shirts Thais passionately feel Abhisit is not a legit PM. But in my case, even though I felt Gore should have put up a fight, I never for one second thought the pro-Gore forces should --

attack the life and property of GW Bush

break up international conferences

threaten to light gas trucks in urban slums

throw bombs at banks

defend pro-Gore people who would be arrested for promoting violence and bombing

throw Molotov cocktails

effect political murders (as in Chiang Mai, etc.)

burn buses, etc. etc. etc.

continue to support Gore if he was convicted of massive corruption and also fled the country like a coward to avoid facing the consequences (as Thaksin, the leader of the red shirts, has)

So be clear on this, my politics (US and Thai) are consistent and logical and I am not the stereotyped ugly American you clearly love to hate.

I bet your a school teacher.

[mythBuster]

Stupidity rules on this forum. I understand that most repliers are drunks, fake teachers and know everything about THailand, no more specific, Bangkok when it comes to the prices of female entertainers. Very few seem to have grasped how a democracy works. Very few have understood that even the former civil servants are turning en mass into supporters of the UDD. Abhisit and his puppert master Suthep should indeed be very worried. Did they get away a year ago with the violence that they themselves orchestrated (Black and blue shirts beating up Red shirts at the hill in Pattaya) shooting with sharp on protestors, the fact that 20,000 monks will take part brings us to the comparison with Burma. You cannot beat up a monk. So you claim that weapons of war have been stolen (how incompetent of Anupong and friends) and I mean real guns not an hot air balloon of 250 million baht that is leaking and will never really fly, not the funny transistor radio antenna's that were turned into bomb scanners, money scanners, shit scanners whatever card you threw into it. Not even the aircraft carrier that was never meant to sail and is rotting away in Satahip or anything else funny that Anupong is responsible for and what the Thai people have to pay for.

The situation is clear and simple. Any child good solve the problem Elections. You cannot sit on the chair that does not belong to you. Not one European, American, Australian, would except that the army came in annulled the results of an elections, wrote a new constitution on a fresh roll of toilet paper and held new elections, from which hey asked the courts to annul the results because they did not like it. And than asked Anupong to threaten 60 politicians to change parties or else. If the government had came to power through elections they might have had the right to ignore the demonstrations. Now the demonstrators have the duty to wipe away the government

Hard to understand for drunks watch ASTV in their bars easy for the rest of us, who grew up with the idea that the vote of a poor bastard is just as important as the vote of Bill gates.

[mythBuster]

I'm guessing that this will mostly affect Bangkok and those of us outside Bangkok will just see a few extra road blocks.

I can only imagine that the police themselves won't be too keen to implement this in pro-Taksin areas such as Chiang Mai and Issan.

I wonder if this will prompt foreign countries to again recommend their citizens to avoid Thailand

Quite a FEW Already have done so.......Where have you been for the past Month or So ????

Maybe he was working a real job?

[SeanMoran]

The fundamental problem is that at least half the population (probably a much higer percentage in reality) see nothing wrong with corruption since it has been the way of life for years. Most people would rather pay the police than be prosecuted or simply pay an official rather than go through application procedures to build something......for those people Thaksin being corrupt and making money on the side was perfectly acceptabel, almost good business practice. When I look at how complicated life is in the west then I am not altogether sure they are not right in believing that corruption is more straightforward.

Yes! Abhisit doesn't need to bother getting any advice from Kevin Rudd, as this is turning into another little authoritarian Australia already. Bring back honest corruption to Thailand!

[frodo]

Stupidity rules on this forum. I understand that most repliers are drunks, fake teachers and know everything about THailand, no more specific, Bangkok when it comes to the prices of female entertainers.

Mythbuster? Give us all a break pal...more like a troll.

[jonclark]

Stupidity rules on this forum. I understand that most repliers are drunks, fake teachers and know everything about THailand, no more specific, Bangkok when it comes to the prices of female entertainers.

Mythbuster? Give us all a break pal...more like a troll.

Maybe he including himself in the list?

[Jimi007]

No reasonable government in the world would sit back and allow free rein to a violent terrorist movement massing in their capital. If you actually believe the red shirts are a peaceful movement, I would agree with you. However, I think the proof is overwhelming that they are a violent movement willing to do anything to achieve their goals. That is simply not acceptable.

Are you an American? You sure sound like an American. Terrified of terrorists. Anyone not your ally is a terrorist. Terrorists have no rights. If I say someone is a terrorist, he/she is a terrorist and must be imprisoned to keep me safe. Maybe we could get Liz Cheney to come over and give seminars on how to deal with terrorists. Americans know a lot about how to deal with terrorists. Just ask any Republican.

I'm sure you're not an American! Typical crap from people who have never lived there.

But what does this have to do with the topic? It's about Thailand, not the USA! People are split about what their government does in any country that allows some form of free speech. Try living in Iran or China and see if you could even post your message!