Overseas Work From Within Thailand. Need A Work Pemit Or Not?

[AxeMan1]

Dear Forum,

I am new here so hope i can get this to send okay.

I have a question. I've been living in thailand almost 3 years using 1 year non-immigrant visa's applied from within the UK. Although never worked here, am looking at using the internet as a means to generate income from overseas work (over the internet).

I wondered if i require a work permit for this. Although not quickly, i would in time receive income back to thailand.

Also what would happen if i did not have a work permit. Is there any fine or penalty in such case?

Thank you to anyone that can help.

Axe

[gotlost]

Legally and technically the answer is yes you would need a work permit. I'll leave others to follow up.

[thaiphoon]

All forms of working in Thailand require a work permit. The definition of "work" under Section 5 of the Alien Working Act 2551 is very wide:

"Work" means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefit

By law you require a work permit. And that requires sponsorship from a Thai company. And that in turn would require you to set up your own Thai company and hire Thai staff or for overseas employer to set up a branch/representative office. The penalties if caught working without a work permit can be severe; under new labour laws it can lead to jail time, but is often reduced to a fine and deportation. Deportation will also prohibit future entry into the Kingdom.

Practically the regulations are unfeasible for many, and they take their chance and work under the radar by keeping their head down and mouth shut, but it is not legal.

[jbaldwin]

You need a work permit to work in Thailand. You are working in Thailand if you are in Thailand when you are working.

Potential penalities are fines and/or prison and/or deportation

[thaiphoon]

One off-topic post removed.

[Lite Beer]

Work Permit needed but many keep their head down and fly under the radar.

That is not my advice.

[chiang mai]

All forms of working in Thailand require a work permit. The definition of "work" under Section 5 of the Alien Working Act 2551 is very wide:

"Work" means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefit

By law you require a work permit. And that requires sponsorship from a Thai company. And that in turn would require you to set up your own Thai company and hire Thai staff or for overseas employer to set up a branch/representative office. The penalties if caught working without a work permit can be severe; under new labour laws it can lead to jail time, but is often reduced to a fine and deportation. Deportation will also prohibit future entry into the Kingdom.

Practically the regulations are unfeasible for many, and they take their chance and work under the radar by keeping their head down and mouth shut, but it is not legal.

Technically, going to the grocery store to buy your groceries constitutes work and for goodness sake, don't ever think about washing and waxing your own car.

[thaiphoon]

Technically, going to the grocery store to buy your groceries constitutes work and for goodness sake, don't ever think about washing and waxing your own car.

Going to the grocery store is not classed as working; it is a household chore! It would be entirely wrong of the moderators not to advise the law to the question raised and consequences of breaking the law. What the Op decides to do is a matter for him, but he can only make that call if in possession of full information, which is what we endeavour to provide in this forum.

[Nio]

All forms of working in Thailand require a work permit. The definition of "work" under Section 5 of the Alien Working Act 2551 is very wide:

"Work" means to engage in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefit

By law you require a work permit. And that requires sponsorship from a Thai company. And that in turn would require you to set up your own Thai company and hire Thai staff or for overseas employer to set up a branch/representative office. The penalties if caught working without a work permit can be severe; under new labour laws it can lead to jail time, but is often reduced to a fine and deportation. Deportation will also prohibit future entry into the Kingdom.

Practically the regulations are unfeasible for many, and they take their chance and work under the radar by keeping their head down and mouth shut, but it is not legal.

Deportation will also prohibit future entry into the Kingdom

Sorry you are misquoting the law here.

Re-entry upon deportation is dependent on many variables and you cannot say will prohibit future entry because each case is different and up immigration to decide

[thaiphoon]

From MFA Website:

11. According to the Immigration Act of Thailand B.E. 2522 (1979), foreigners who fall into any of the following categories are prohibited to enter Thailand:

(11) Being deported by either the Government of Thailand or that of other foreign countries; or having been revoked the right of stay in the Kingdom or in foreign countries; or having been expelled from the Kingdom by competent officials at the expense of the Government of Thailand unless exemption is provided by the Minister on an individual basis.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2487

[Lite Beer]

Posts attacking the advise given by a Moderator have been removed.

We are here to give advise and point out the legalities of certain situations.

Giving opposite advice helps no one especially the poster asking the question.

Thanks.

[geovalin]

We are speaking about Internet and computer, not mowing the lawn.

If you are making a beautiful digital drawing for your facebook page, it's technically working as you use knowledge and energy but I guess (maybe I'm wrong... check with lawyer) that you'll not be deported.

If you draw web pages, it's not the same story.

I know that it's written: "whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefit" but I think the money aspect is important.

If you read an article in the Times (about artichokes culture in Western France during the 15th century) or Thaivisa and if you use energy to think about it, then reply, is it legal?

Please, people who knows better than us, clarify this point.

[oneoone]

Do you know of, or have you heard of anyone caught using the internet to generate an income without a work permit?

[Mario2008]

We are speaking about Internet and computer, not mowing the lawn.

If you are making a beautiful digital drawing for your facebook page, it's technically working as you use knowledge and energy but I guess (maybe I'm wrong... check with lawyer) that you'll not be deported.

If you draw web pages, it's not the same story.

I know that it's written: "whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefit" but I think the money aspect is important.

If you read an article in the Times (about artichokes culture in Western France during the 15th century) or Thaivisa and if you use energy to think about it, then reply, is it legal?

Please, people who knows better than us, clarify this point.

I think you have to read the Alien Labour Law in the context of what it wants to regulate, labour. it doesn't want to regulate the fact if you can do your own laundry or not. It will be different if you do the laundry of the hotel you own.

Of course there are some gray areas, such as painting the house of your mother in law. It is not for yourself, so it remains to be seen how it will be looked upon. But have some trust in the officials and the courts.

[geovalin]

Do you know of, or have you heard of anyone caught using the internet to generate an income without a work permit?

I don't but this is very good question to ask to anyone + to the specialists of the issue.

[Mario2008]

The chances of getting caught are of course very small and i have never heard of someone getting caught. But it is illegal and a risk one would take.

[Yogacharya]

A lot of people here keep saying stuff like "technically, it is illegal," yet they are not lawyers, and they may not really know the full extent of the laws ... so let's be careful.

I am not a lawyer either, and I have also wondered about this question of earning overseas income online while here in Thailand. I have heard various opinions on it too. Has anyone ever bothered to ask officials at the Thai immigration? Seems to me that, in addition to all of our "amateur legal opinions" that would be helpful.

As far as other amatuer legal opnions that I've heard, a few things makes sense ... like the fact that if you are not employed by a Thai company, then you do not need a work permit (that is what work permits are for ... employment). However, if you are conducting "business" here in Thailand, which working online (in your own business) would perhaps fall under, and generating income while using resources here in Thailand (whether it's employees, contractors, or just an internet connection), then you need a "business visa." Again, those are only other thoughts I have heard that make sense. I do know people who do exactly this, and they have a business visa, not a work permit.

Any thoughts about that?

Cheers!

M

[CMFarang]

May I suggest a Class "B" Multi Entry Visa

It is a Business Visa , and allows you to do Research and Development for a Non-Thai based Company (Mainly , your own Registered Company) while in Thailand.

You can communicate on the internet for business purposes, Buy, Check, ship goods, and a variety of gray areas that allow simple tasks to be completed.

No Thia Company affiliation is required..

You can write your own letter of Invitation and sign it from your own Company yourself..

Don't tell anyone.

In Canada , it costs very little to establish a proprietorship and takes about 2 weeks.

I have heard other countries are quite involved and lengthy in establishing a Company / proprietorship.

This is the first step to the "B" Visa.

I also suggest a Thai Embassy without some power monger giving you all sorts of additional tasks when applying for a Visa, an independent Thai Consular is easiest.

[Phil Conners]

Do you know of, or have you heard of anyone caught using the internet to generate an income without a work permit?

I know of one person who is running a web design company in Pattaya who was pulled in by Immigration to show his work permit. (He had one so was not "caught").

On the other hand several individuals have for years openly advertised on websites that they do web design in Pattaya but they only provide an email address as contact so it is most likely that these individuals do not have work permits. It should still be reasonably easy to find them with a little effort, how it is possible for someone to do this is beyond my imagination. Perhaps they "know" someone in Immigration or bribe someone, I don't know.

[mythBuster]

Technically you need a work permit. Practically nobody has a work permit. There are a million work arounds. Technically speaking, ll the tourists keying in information on their laptops for their employers abroad need a work permit too. Technically your work permit would even be bound to a certain location. So if you had a work lunch and you would do your work in the lobby of a hotel you would be in trouble too.

I have many colleagues from other countries coming over and they all engage technically in work during their holiday. They do not get paid in Thailand, do not get paid by Thai people but still.

Although this is a government that is made up out of Xenophobic Nationalists I hardly know any examples of people that ran in trouble, except for those working in offices, travel agents and so on. The authorities have better things to do and getting a work permit for a service that only you can do and not Thai leaves you with a absurd overhead. You need to take on 12 gardeners or so.

I hold a work permit for over 14 years. They have asked for it twice and in my office. I can't imagine that anyone would ask you what you were doing on your computer at home or in a restaurant or coffee shop. The gold rule is never to trust anyone anyhow. Don't tell, they don't ask.

[Soutpeel]

No Thia Company affiliation is required..

You can write your own letter of Invitation and sign it from your own Company yourself..

For an Non-imm B you still need an invitation from a Thai entity to get granted the "B" visa, and highly unlikely you will be given a multiple Non Imm B in South East Asia....

[Soutpeel]

Technically you need a work permit. Practically nobody has a work permit. There are a million work arounds. Technically speaking, ll the tourists keying in information on their laptops for their employers abroad need a work permit too. Technically your work permit would even be bound to a certain location. So if you had a work lunch and you would do your work in the lobby of a hotel you would be in trouble too.

I have many colleagues from other countries coming over and they all engage technically in work during their holiday. They do not get paid in Thailand, do not get paid by Thai people but still.

Although this is a government that is made up out of Xenophobic Nationalists I hardly know any examples of people that ran in trouble, except for those working in offices, travel agents and so on. The authorities have better things to do and getting a work permit for a service that only you can do and not Thai leaves you with a absurd overhead. You need to take on 12 gardeners or so.

I hold a work permit for over 14 years. They have asked for it twice and in my office. I can't imagine that anyone would ask you what you were doing on your computer at home or in a restaurant or coffee shop. The gold rule is never to trust anyone anyhow. Don't tell, they don't ask.

You are of course correct, but a genuine tourist will be ultimately leaving after a pre determined period ie two weeks, three weeks a month etc. But the group of people working on the internet here are not genuine tourists and are using these "business' to finance living in Thailand, and believe this would be the way immigration would measure whether someone is "working in Thailand" or not.

These would be the same group of people who would be getting residence certificates, trying to buy cars/motor bikes etc. but they "are not working" in Thailand...give me break.... ...I personally dont care what these individuals get up to, and if they get away with it, good luck to them, but what gets up my nose is when they start trying to rationalise this position and start saying its legal/immigration donr care etc

[alyx]

CMFarang is referring to a Class "B" Multi Entry Visa

So my question is: Is there a difference between a "non B" and a "B"?(actually should be as there is a "non")

[lopburi3]

There is no such thing as "class B". There are non immigrant visas and "B" is one category.

[thaibkk]

just let the money come to your thai wife's name and account, problem solved, no ?

[tombkk]

We are speaking about Internet and computer, not mowing the lawn.

If you are making a beautiful digital drawing for your facebook page, it's technically working as you use knowledge and energy but I guess (maybe I'm wrong... check with lawyer) that you'll not be deported.

If you draw web pages, it's not the same story.

I know that it's written: "whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefit" but I think the money aspect is important.

If you read an article in the Times (about artichokes culture in Western France during the 15th century) or Thaivisa and if you use energy to think about it, then reply, is it legal?

Please, people who knows better than us, clarify this point.

This is where you want to ask: http://www.immigration.go.th/forum/index.php

You get real information, not guesses from ThaiVisa members. And yes, they do reply in English to English-language queries.

[kudroz]

This topic has been brought up countless times and the answer is always the same:

* Yes you need a work permit

* You need to pay taxes in Thailand on that income because it's Thai sourced

Not doing so means that you are a tax evader and an illegal working alien.

[johnswift1956]

This topic has been brought up countless times and the answer is always the same:

* Yes you need a work permit

* You need to pay taxes in Thailand on that income because it's Thai sourced

Not doing so means that you are a tax evader and an illegal working alien.

I live and pay tax in the uK but I just wonder if in Thailand your come under similar tax laws as europe including Spain that all earned (by working) and unearned (such as inventments in Spain or abroad) become taxable as an expat living in Spain.

I know Spain is very strict with this and all expats living in Spain SHOULD submit all income and pay taxes similar to Spanish. Penalties as really harsh in Spain for evading tax submittions and payments. I would hope that everyone has sort advise on this matter from a good accountant in Thailand?

[lopburi3]

Money brought into Thailand in the year earned by those staying more than six months should be declared to Thai tax payment. Money not brought into the country in the year earned is not taxed under current policy.

[TCA]

Money brought into Thailand in the year earned by those staying more than six months should be declared to Thai tax payment. Money not brought into the country in the year earned is not taxed under current policy.

I've read this before in the Thai tax regulations but am still baffled as to how could they prove that any money brought into Thailand was current year earnings - other than if an employer sent the money directly of course. And I presume the taxable/non-taxable argument has nothing to do with whether you need a work permit or not in the circumstances described above, so one could potentially have to jump through all the hoops for a legal work status, yet have no taxable earnings.

I need to lie down.