Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[Jingthing]

That, or just fill out that great form at the embassy and claim you have 65k baht or more! Done!

Claim? You mean lie. Good luck with that.

[craigt3365]

That, or just fill out that great form at the embassy and claim you have 65k baht or more! Done!

Claim? You mean lie. Good luck with that.

I would never take the chance, but I am sure there are some that do!

[phomsanuk]

Malaysia My Second Home MM2H they actively evcourage retirees....

[vantexan]

Most likely Cuenca, Ecuador because it's an anomaly. Big enough to have everything you need, great scenery, mild weather year'round, safe, mostly middle class, can have permanent residency with all the rights of citizenship by buying property there. Can buy very reasonably priced condo's in great neighborhoods with everything in walking distance or cheap taxiride. World class colonial architecture. And closest place to the States with these qualitys. International Living named Cuenca the world's number 1 retiree destination. It has great medical too, including a private hospital affiliated with the Boston University Medical Center. You can get private insurance through them if you are under 70 starting at $85 a month. U.S. Dollar is the currency, no fluctuations. Even has a couple of multiplex theaters playing American movies in English with Spanish subtitles. A couple who own their home can be comfortable on $700 a month, bump that up to $1100 if you rent, a bit more if you own a car. Ecuador is OPEC's newest member too, last i read gas costs $1.50 a gallon there. DirecTV Latin America has most of the English channels on it, including the movie channels. Daily highs are generally in the mid-70's, can cool off a bit at night, can get into the 40's at night in the winter. I've seen repeatedly from expats there that the streets are clean, noise is minimal, no crowing roosters, no mangy, starving dogs in the streets. It's an anomaly for Latin America.

Once there,have a walk -alone- in the streets after 10PM..

Do it for a few nights and report back to us...

People flock to Thailand for a reason..

To tell you the truth if I were to walk alone anywhere after 10 p.m. it would most likely be Chile. But as I said, Cuenca is an anomaly. It's mostly middle class, doesn't have the crime of Quito. And it's actually a fair sized city of 450,000 with modern malls, plenty of restaurants, etc. It's a UNESCO World Heritage site, is possibly the most beautiful city in South America. Not as spectacular a setting as Rio but still very nice. Cuenca also has some of the best water in South America, drinkable from the tap. I'm not here to push Cuenca, just suggesting it as an alternative worth the trouble of investigating. It doesn't have the sex trade of Thailand, although Latin America is big on that, just not as open as some places. But the biggest plus for me is the weather. I hate heat and humidity, which is why I'm crossing Cambodia off. And I live in east Texas, grew up in central Florida. My biggest concern is finding an affordable place with a nice quality of life, reasonably close to the States with good television and internet, cheap restaurants, walkable for exercise. Cuenca is the best I've found that is close to the U.S.. Could make an argument for a number of Mexican cities but until Mexico gets control back from the cartels I'll pass.

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong. Best bet is making a $25k investment in real estate, or park it in a bank. You become a permanent resident then. Only catch is to keep residency you must live in Ecuador 9 months a year for first 2 years. After that can come and go as you please. One thing I really like is that I can go to the Philippines, find a wife, and easily bring her to Ecuador. Try that in the States, not to mention the costs!

[jackdawson]

yes , i agree

thailand is so 1990

all retirees in the kingdom should leave immediately if not sooner

we'll miss u

[jackdawson]

I live in east Texas, grew up in central Florida

now that's living !

[Jingthing]

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong.

Definitely wrong:

http://www.ecuador.org/immigrantvisas.htm#pensioner

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

If you become a resident of Ecuador they require you provide them with all information regarding your assets, income, property liabilities world wide. Very Very long list. See below

Annual reporting of net worth to SRI since may 2008. It is in Spanish but you'll get the idea, 150 lines long. Makes what the US requires look like a walk in the park. Sorry you'll have to copy and paste url

http://www.sri.gov.ec/sri/formularios/form...ato--022452.xls

[LaoPo]

Malaysia My Second Home MM2H they actively encourage retirees....

Yes, but ONLY for people with some cash, not for people without any money or just a small retirement income:

http://www.ckten.com.my/conditions.html

....if Thailand would implement the same conditions...there would be a lot less retirees in LOS

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

Wow! Does Malaysia think they are Australia? Sounds like they are going mostly for Japanese whose government pensions meet their levels. Their required pension is higher than the maximum pension of USA social security, and I'm guessing at least most Australians and UK government pensions as well. Also their cash element has to be liquid, so stocks and locked retirement funds like US IRAs won't qualify.

There's always the Philippines. Lower requirements than Thailand. If you're over 50, you can deposit 20K USD to qualify and then after a short period you can spend that money for qualified items such as a long term rental lease, etc.

http://www.pra.gov.ph/main/faq?page=1#gen2

Edited May 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[Penefattore]

Turkey: NEW TO THE LIST.......if you live there or have lived there, please gives us some input on the place.

The message board of Turkey expats http://www.mymerhaba.com/

[vantexan]

If you become a resident of Ecuador they require you provide them with all information regarding your assets, income, property liabilities world wide. Very Very long list. See below

Annual reporting of net worth to SRI since may 2008. It is in Spanish but you'll get the idea, 150 lines long. Makes what the US requires look like a walk in the park. Sorry you'll have to copy and paste url

http://www.sri.gov.ec/sri/formularios/form...ato--022452.xls

Thanks for the heads up. Based on the info Jingthing provided guess the pensioner's visa is the way to go there.

[johnmcc6]

i am planning to retire in chiang mai soon and would like your opinion on what money is needed for a decent

standard of living...i will have retirement income of 50.000 bht a month and 3,000,000.00 bht in bank...thai wife gets about 30,000 a month on top. i will still have a couple of million bht left at home just in case...i hope this fits into the current thread as i haven't figured out how to start a new one..

Eastbourne

but only the western suburbs!

Have you been drinking too much? Yes, we know you love Thailand.

Fine.....we can live with that. And I can assure you nobody interested in this thread cares.

The subject is about retirement alternatives to Thailand that I listed in the first post.

Is it possible to focus on that and stop the horse shit?

Thank you.

if you ask horse questions you get horse shit answers. if you are interested in alternatives than you have to provide some background information as specified hereafter. before settling in Thailand i have checked more than a dozen potential countries after having worked and lived in half a dozen different countries and therefore i might be able to render some advice.

-what is your financial status? can you afford to live in Monte Carlo or does it have to be the wilderness in a third world country?

-does it matter whether the country you are planning to live levies income tax?

-are you looking for a country with no age/income restrictions concerning obtaining a residence permit?

-what is your age and physical condition? are you willing to live in a country without access to proper healtcare and perhaps a 10 hour flight if you need a quadruple coronary bypass?

-are you planning to live in a thatched hut or in a 500m² mansion?

-does it matter to you whether domestic servants are available galore at affordable salaries or are you cleaning your house and cook yourself?

to be continued after you answered these questions.

[maurits2000]

A few remarks:

Argentina:

i have travelled argentina extensively a few years ago. At that time it was incredibly cheap, probably at - or below thai level. But i do not know how that is now. But somebody knows?

Very positive experience: very friendly people, close to european culture, beautiful country etc. Drawbacks can be red tape for many things like buying a condo, visa etc. But I would put it in my top 3 for sure.

Malaysia: I can not understand why so many people go there. It can be beautiful etc, but after three weeks I finally understood what i really missed there: laughing people, people having fun, a certain lightness in life. I would never put it on my list.

Indonesia: if you love it in thailand.... yes then indonesia is a good alternative. bali expensive? yes. but it is at the same level as phuket. since it consists of about 6.000 islands... there must be a nice place for everyone depending on what you are looking for :-)

Cambodia: safety is for sure an issue. A country with such an violent recent history and masses of arms available... People have a different perception of violence there (as they also have in thailand by the way, but cambodia is worse).

Phillippines: Angeles? yes if your only interest in life is bars and sex, then this is your place. But it is not beautiful in any way and has nothing to add to those 2. I would stay somewhere else (and pay a visit form time to time

Crime is a big problem in Ecuador. Its not that bad in Argentina, obviously depending where you live there.

Argentina (beautiful country)

Nicaragua (massive poverty)

Belize (great lobsters)

Mexico (gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific)

Malaysia (heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option)

Philippines (safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system)

Costa Rica (beautiful; getting expensive)

Cambodia (massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Vietnam

Indonesia (visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem)

Ecuador (too much crime)

As you can see above, I am starting to include my own observations and those of others............I wonder if we can start filling this out in more detail with observations about crime, food, visas, scenary, cost of living, medical system, etc.?

Perhaps we can create a VIABLE EXPAT DESTINATION and NO LONGER VIABLE EXPAT DESTINATION list. Maybe we can start narrowing the list down to a handful of alternatives.........remember, if you have lots of money you can retire anywhere. This is for people who don't have lots of money--pensioners who are having to live off of about US$1000 to 1800 per month:

Let me start (I also suggest we ignore any more silly and useless comments from Naam and is mate):

VIABLE:

Argentina (beautiful country)

Nicaragua (massive poverty)

Belize (great lobsters)

Mexico (gorgeous coastline overlooking Pacific; safe and unsafe areas)

Malaysia (heard good around Panang........logical retirement visa option)

Philippines (safe and unsafe areas; beautiful beaches; storm problem; most people speak English; easy visa system)

Costa Rica (beautiful; getting expensive)

Cambodia (massive annual GNP growth.......looks like Thailand; friendly people; English spoken widely; more expensive than Thailand; don't want to get sick there; infrastructure improving but long way to go)

Vietnam (rapid economic development/growth; long beach front areas)

Indonesia (visa system is not that easy; Bali expensive; other areas much less expensive; earthquake problem)

NO LONGER VIABLE:

Ecuador......why.....too much crime.

[vantexan]

If you become a resident of Ecuador they require you provide them with all information regarding your assets, income, property liabilities world wide. Very Very long list. See below

Annual reporting of net worth to SRI since may 2008. It is in Spanish but you'll get the idea, 150 lines long. Makes what the US requires look like a walk in the park. Sorry you'll have to copy and paste url

http://www.sri.gov.ec/sri/formularios/form...ato--022452.xls

Just talked with some expats living in Cuenca for over a year now. The only info they had to supply concerning their income, etc was to supply proof that they had sufficient income to support themselves. Said that they have found Cuenca even better than their research on the internet revealed. And that there are quite a few expats there who get by with just a few Spanish words, although they recommended learning the language. I've read there are an estimated 700 American expats there, many more European expats. One guy said if Ecuador is socialist, it has to be the most capitalistic socialist country in the world.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

vantexan

That's interesting, actually Ecuador looked very promising until I got to the part where they tax world wide income. I guess if you have little money it is of no concern. but if you are living comfortable and plan to keep doing so puts Ecuador out of the picture. Unless they have changed their tax rates and policies.

NDIVIDUAL TAXATION

Residents are taxed on their worldwide income. Married couples are taxed separately.

INCOME TAX

Income is taxed at progressive rates. Expenses and costs incurred in obtaining, maintaining, and preserving the revenues subject to the tax are deductible.

INCOME TAX

TAXABLE INCOME, US$

TAX RATE

Up to US$7,850

nil

US$7,850 - US$10,000

5% on band over US$7,850

US$10,000 - US$12,500

10% on band over US$10,000

US$12,500 - US$15,000

12% on band over US$12,500

US$15,000 - US$30,000

15% on band over US$15,000

US$30,000 - US$45,000

20% on band over US$30,000

US$45,000 - US$60,000

25% on band over US$45,000

US$60,000 - US$80,000

30% on band over US$60,000

Over US$80,000

55% on all income over US$80,000

Something to check out before you commit if it matters to you.

[Master of the court]

I had a look at Costa Rica, but didn't fancy that however after looking at USA (Fl) and Joao Pessoa Nr Recif in the NE of Brazil, I brought properties there.

For $90k you can get some real deals in USA, I paid less than $80 for a brand new 'fully loaded' house on the beach in Joao.

Don't take my word on Costa Rica it is worth having a look.

Good luck

Yes , but then you have to live with Americans......................................

[ronz28]

Thailand's nice but maybe Americans can get a better deal in Mexico as we are neighbors and they might treat us like we treat them. Perhaps a letter to the Pres would be in order...something like this:

Dear Mr. President:

I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. Please print all Mexican Government forms in English.

4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers in free schools.

5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my grandkids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my housetop, put U S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

14. I want to receive free food stamps.

15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.

16. I'll need income tax credits so that although I don't pay Mexican taxes, I'll receive money from the government.

17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Government pays $4,500.00 to help me buy a new car.

18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.

I know this is an easy requestbecause you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico .. I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help.

You're the man!!!

[vantexan]

vantexan

That's interesting, actually Ecuador looked very promising until I got to the part where they tax world wide income. I guess if you have little money it is of no concern. but if you are living comfortable and plan to keep doing so puts Ecuador out of the picture. Unless they have changed their tax rates and policies.

NDIVIDUAL TAXATION

Residents are taxed on their worldwide income. Married couples are taxed separately.

INCOME TAX

Income is taxed at progressive rates. Expenses and costs incurred in obtaining, maintaining, and preserving the revenues subject to the tax are deductible.

INCOME TAX

TAXABLE INCOME, US$

TAX RATE

Up to US$7,850

nil

US$7,850 - US$10,000

5% on band over US$7,850

US$10,000 - US$12,500

10% on band over US$10,000

US$12,500 - US$15,000

12% on band over US$12,500

US$15,000 - US$30,000

15% on band over US$15,000

US$30,000 - US$45,000

20% on band over US$30,000

US$45,000 - US$60,000

25% on band over US$45,000

US$60,000 - US$80,000

30% on band over US$60,000

Over US$80,000

55% on all income over US$80,000

Something to check out before you commit if it matters to you.

Thanks for the info. Your earlier post is true, found on a forum where it was discussed a year ago. Many of these expats on the forums I follow are new to Ecuador. It will be interesting to see how things turn out over time. I still have some time to figure this out. I wonder if there's a difference between "income" and pensions, Social Security, etc., for tax purposes in Ecuador?

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Vantexan

It's a tough call, I was really impressed with the looks of the houses and condos an the low cost. Property taxes are almost non existent, like a few hundred dollars a year. But the tax on world wide income pretty much killed my enthusiasm for Ecuador.

Good luck in your search, hope you find the perfect place.

[PattayaParent]

^how do they konw what your worldwide income is?

[maurits2000]

Yes that is the right question. In Ecuador or any other country we think about as expat destination, I would NEVER bring my money in or would declare my assets. Whether it be for tax reasons in one country, in others it can be for your safety in many ways.

There are many ways to organise your finances internationally. Then you just have the income and the assets you need in country X. The rest is in a safe low tax or no tax place.

Gives you peace of mind.

^how do they konw what your worldwide income is?

[Lopburi99]

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong.

Definitely wrong:

http://www.ecuador.org/immigrantvisas.htm#pensioner

Per International Living as of April 2010:

"Retirement documents showing a stable income of at least $800 monthly, certified to be correct by the party responsible for the source of the funds, and authenticated by the Ecuadorian Consul in your country of origin."

Only $800/month for retirement residency, wow. I just found this thread. I've gotta read up more on Ecuador (and the other alternatives). Unfortunately I am seriously considering not returning to LOS after I visit the States this summer.

My priorities: Pleasant weather (70s, low humidity), inexpensive cost of living, $USD, a language easy to learn and speak -- Ecuador seems to fit. Also considering Mexico if I can find an affordable area with suitable weather.

Ideally I'd like to live an RVing life in the U.S., chasing the good weather, but it appears that is far beyond my means ($2K/month SS).

[Tejas]

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong.

Definitely wrong:

http://www.ecuador.org/immigrantvisas.htm#pensioner

Per International Living as of April 2010:

"Retirement documents showing a stable income of at least $800 monthly, certified to be correct by the party responsible for the source of the funds, and authenticated by the Ecuadorian Consul in your country of origin."

Only $800/month for retirement residency, wow. I just found this thread. I've gotta read up more on Ecuador (and the other alternatives). Unfortunately I am seriously considering not returning to LOS after I visit the States this summer.

My priorities: Pleasant weather (70s, low humidity), inexpensive cost of living, $USD, a language easy to learn and speak -- Ecuador seems to fit. Also considering Mexico if I can find an affordable area with suitable weather.

Ideally I'd like to live an RVing life in the U.S., chasing the good weather, but it appears that is far beyond my means ($2K/month SS).

Did you see the posts about Uruguay? Seems like a good alternative to Ecuador.

[craigt3365]

Be careful with International Living. They have vested interests in many countries, so the articles are very slanted. I went to Panama one year and found it was nothing like what was stated on IL. Then found out they own a real estate company there! Or at least own a part interest.

[vantexan]

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong.

Definitely wrong:

http://www.ecuador.org/immigrantvisas.htm#pensioner

Per International Living as of April 2010:

"Retirement documents showing a stable income of at least $800 monthly, certified to be correct by the party responsible for the source of the funds, and authenticated by the Ecuadorian Consul in your country of origin."

Only $800/month for retirement residency, wow. I just found this thread. I've gotta read up more on Ecuador (and the other alternatives). Unfortunately I am seriously considering not returning to LOS after I visit the States this summer.

My priorities: Pleasant weather (70s, low humidity), inexpensive cost of living, $USD, a language easy to learn and speak -- Ecuador seems to fit. Also considering Mexico if I can find an affordable area with suitable weather.

Ideally I'd like to live an RVing life in the U.S., chasing the good weather, but it appears that is far beyond my means ($2K/month SS).

I was considering RVing in Mexico. Plenty of RV parks, plus variations in altitude keeps the climate reasonable. The problems with the drug cartels, especially in the north, turned me off to the idea. Mexico has serious problems but whether they'll affect you is a roll of the dice. Decided not worth it to find out. But if it's for you check out "Mexican Camping" by Mike and Terry Church. It's the bible of Mexican RVing, new edition came out late last year.

[vantexan]

Be careful with International Living. They have vested interests in many countries, so the articles are very slanted. I went to Panama one year and found it was nothing like what was stated on IL. Then found out they own a real estate company there! Or at least own a part interest.

Best bet is to go to Yahoo Groups and find groups on expats living in a specific country. Panama has probably more groups than any other country except maybe the Philippines. Costa Rica has a few too. Honduras has a good one, as well as Ecuador. Many on the Ecuador expats group moved there from Panama. What Panama has going for it is the best perks for retirees anywhere. Discounts on just about everything. Thanks in part to International Living it's real estate has gotten expensive, especially in popular expat areas. By the way, the Thai Visa Forum is the single best country specific forum I've seen. Maybe others of similar quality out there, but haven't found them yet. Mexico Connect is pretty good.

[craigt3365]

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong.

Definitely wrong:

http://www.ecuador.org/immigrantvisas.htm#pensioner

Per International Living as of April 2010:

"Retirement documents showing a stable income of at least $800 monthly, certified to be correct by the party responsible for the source of the funds, and authenticated by the Ecuadorian Consul in your country of origin."

Only $800/month for retirement residency, wow. I just found this thread. I've gotta read up more on Ecuador (and the other alternatives). Unfortunately I am seriously considering not returning to LOS after I visit the States this summer.

My priorities: Pleasant weather (70s, low humidity), inexpensive cost of living, $USD, a language easy to learn and speak -- Ecuador seems to fit. Also considering Mexico if I can find an affordable area with suitable weather.

Ideally I'd like to live an RVing life in the U.S., chasing the good weather, but it appears that is far beyond my means ($2K/month SS).

I was considering RVing in Mexico. Plenty of RV parks, plus variations in altitude keeps the climate reasonable. The problems with the drug cartels, especially in the north, turned me off to the idea. Mexico has serious problems but whether they'll affect you is a roll of the dice. Decided not worth it to find out. But if it's for you check out "Mexican Camping" by Mike and Terry Church. It's the bible of Mexican RVing, new edition came out late last year.

Church's book is great. I spent one winter in Baja and another on the mainland (2006 & 2007). Loved it both times. Things have changed for sure, but mostly around the border. Otherwise, it's not that bad...or at least it is as bad as it always has been. Media tends to hype things a bit. You just need to get use to all the Canadians!!!! Way more than Americans.

$2k/month is no problem in an RV. My parents did it full time for 8 years and never spent that much, on average, per month. Just have to learn how to be conservative (i.e. learn how to coyote from time to time).

[rono]

Ecuador doesn't have a retirement visa that I'm aware of, may be wrong.

Definitely wrong:

http://www.ecuador.org/immigrantvisas.htm#pensioner

Per International Living as of April 2010:

"Retirement documents showing a stable income of at least $800 monthly, certified to be correct by the party responsible for the source of the funds, and authenticated by the Ecuadorian Consul in your country of origin."

Only $800/month for retirement residency, wow. I just found this thread. I've gotta read up more on Ecuador (and the other alternatives). Unfortunately I am seriously considering not returning to LOS after I visit the States this summer.

My priorities: Pleasant weather (70s, low humidity), inexpensive cost of living, $USD, a language easy to learn and speak -- Ecuador seems to fit. Also considering Mexico if I can find an affordable area with suitable weather.

Ideally I'd like to live an RVing life in the U.S., chasing the good weather, but it appears that is far beyond my means ($2K/month SS).

many people living in a RV have additional income from internet based business, others work a few months on camp grounds or work in national parks, not a heavy job, they choose a job where they want to stay or when they need or can use extra money.

[Herm]

Having lived here for 26 years I would love to leave. Am not retied - no pension - and my last business venture has just been shot by the reds. I need to pull off one more before leaving here.

Having lived in Trinidad a very long time ago, I did love the place, but highly increased crime rates since the last 15 years stop me from moving there. The same accounts for Mexico.

I'm looking at Lang Kawi or KL as a real alternative. I never wanted to move to an Islamic country but Malaysia is kind of stable and they let you do what you want and actually welcome foreigners. Easy long term visa or even residence. You can buy land / a house or build one. You do not need native shareholders when opening a company.

Infrastructure is far better than in Thailand and the place is actually cheaper - housing -+ food. Everybody speaks English and people are friendly, real friendly, not the false "smile" friendly like here.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Herm