Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[Renoir]

Thanks for the link.? Nha Trang in Vietnam seems like a nice place to live. I wonder if it is as cheap as they say. Can somebody really lives well on I000$ a month?. Anybody who has been there can confirm this information?

Renoir

The usual report with no indication of retirement visa availability or feasibility.

http://finance.yahoo...retire-planning

[PattayaParent]

Thanks for the link.? Nha Trang in Vietnam seems like a nice place to live. I wonder if it is as cheap as they say. Can somebody really lives well on I000$ a month?. Anybody who has been there can confirm this information?

Renoir

The usual report with no indication of retirement visa availability or feasibility.

http://finance.yahoo...retire-planning

There's no such thing as a retirement visa in Viet Nam so it would be difficult to permanently retire there unless you are married to a Vietnamese..

[ableguy]

Eastbourne

but only the western suburbs!

Next to the railway station helps one to get the hell out fast.

[Penefattore]

Nha Trang in Vietnam seems like a nice place to live. I wonder if it is as cheap as they say. Can somebody really lives well on I000$ a month?. Anybody who has been there can confirm this information?

I spent a few days in Nha Trang in 2009 . While hotels were surely cheaper than Thailand, food and restaurants were about even. Considering you cannot own a condo in Vietnam and unlike Thailand save on rent , I guess Vietnam is overall more expensive.

And I wouldn't rate Nha Trang a "nice place to live"

[PattayaParent]

^you can own a condo but you have to be either working there or married to a VN, among other ways to own.

Neither practical for a retiree but there are many in Thailand that do not own, or wish to own, a condo so that's not a major obstacle.

The lack of a retirement visa is however.

[lemerou]

And I wouldn't rate Nha Trang a "nice place to live"

Agree on this one.

Nha Trang is all right to spend some time but i wouldnt want to live there i think...

[waza]

China, absolutely no retirement visa. Prove me otherwise.

(Working, visa, business, yes, of course.)

Of course China is a fascinating country, can't argue that.

I was living in Southern China for the last 7 months. Had to do a 30 day run to HK for another visa, they would only give me a 30 day single entry visa at the cost of 7000 baht. I didnt like it. the polution is incredible, every day was smoggy. No one on the street or in shops spoke any english. There are no road rules or road signs, (EG: STOP Signs), constant motor vehicle accidents. But I agree its a facinating country, so much standing history and the southern chinese (Tai ) are a very friendly people.

[Renoir]

The Palawan Island in The Philippines seems like a nice place. I have never been there but I have heard that it is clean (contrary to many places in The Philippines) with a lot of nature. Puerto Princessa, the capital of Palawan, may be a nice place to live but I do not know if there is a lot to do there. Everybody there can speak some English.

Renoir

[rott]

Thanks for the link.? Nha Trang in Vietnam seems like a nice place to live. I wonder if it is as cheap as they say. Can somebody really lives well on I000$ a month?. Anybody who has been there can confirm this information?

Renoir

The usual report with no indication of retirement visa availability or feasibility.

http://finance.yahoo...retire-planning

My impression from a short stay in NhaTrang, is that it is a pleasant enough place, accommodation food and beer are cheap enough. You could certainly get by OK on 1000US$ per month, I could happily do it on that but I would not describe it as ''living really well''.

[chops]

How about China? Or are all the westerners on this forum and in general scared of getting stared and ogled at everywhere they go? To be honest, there is nothing wrong with China. It's the world's second largest economy and therefore much, much more relevant to this world (and to the US and every other large economy) than Thailand ever will be.

Why are westerners (seemingly) so scared of China? Can't speak the language? Nobody can speak English? Who cares! Learn the language! Also, if more foreigners bothered going there it might reduce the starring and all that other mildly discomforting stuff that one rarely encounters in Thailand anymore.

I think living in Sipsongbanna, for example in Meng La (Muang La) or Jinghong (Chiang Rung), both of which are located close to the Lao and Burmese borders would be nice. The climate, culture, food, etc. are all relatively similar to Thailand and Laos, only the infrastructure etc. is much better on the Chinese side than on the Lao side. Of course, there would have to be a Chinese visa that would allow you to retire there, similar to Thailand and Malaysia. I'm not sure if there is, but in general China is making lots of effort to bring foreigners in, not keep them out like in days gone by. Sure, there are plenty of foreigners in big cities like Shanghai, Beijing and Guangzhou, but everytime I cross between Vietnam and China, and China and Laos you will notice the vast difference between these neighbors. There are hundreds of foreigners travelling through Lao Cai, Vietnam on the Chinese border everyday, but I have never seen any non-Vietnamese foreigners in Hekou, the Chinese town on the opposite side of the river.

If you want to live somewhere different, where being a foreigner is still kind of a novelty, try China. Seriously. The people are nice, the food is great, the scenery in many parts of the country quite breathtaking and the prices still low. Plus China is a very exciting place at the moment. Of course, not everywhere in China is ideal, but if you try living in a medium size city (by Chinese standards) you should be alright. Apart from the cities mentioned above, which are quite small, try Kunming for more international flavor in terms of places to eat, go shopping, connections to the outside world and relatively low levels of pollution etc. Other alternatives would be Chengdu, although it's bigger and more polluted or Qingdao in the north, but winters there are frigid, or Hainan perhaps.

Again, I think the viability of China mostly depends on the visa situation. Although i know a fair bit about Chinese visas (tourist, business, student and working visas) I don't know if there is a retirement visa or something equivalent.

Yeah, what's with the obsession with tropical countries? Southern China has great weather and it's always cool, unlike humid Thailand.

The main problem is getting a visa to stay long term. Could you live there on tourist visas alone?

[craigt3365]

Yeah, what's with the obsession with tropical countries? Southern China has great weather and it's always cool, unlike humid Thailand.

The main problem is getting a visa to stay long term. Could you live there on tourist visas alone?

Well, many of us come from colder climates. Some love it, I prefer the warmer weather. Very happy not having to wear sweaters, jackets, gloves, etc. Swimming every day is tough to beat.

Have you lived in China before? I've only been there for 6 months. Great as a tourist, but don't think I could handle it full time....edit...I know I couldn't handle it full time. And if it involved 7000 Baht visa runs every 30 days, forget it.

[GreenSnapper]

What about Malaysia...10 year visa and you can own land!

Provied you are prepared to put up the cash....

There have been some misleading postings here on the Malaysian "MM2H" (Malaysia my second home) program.

First: this program will give you a proper 10 years visa (extendable), unlike the Thai 1-year "extension of stay". There is no 90-day reporting or other hassle. You are basically accepted as a quasi permanent resident, and your legal status is much better than in Thailand, where you are a always a "farang".

The financial requirements are a bit higher, but a lot of people can easily comply.

The rules devide those below 50 years old (higher financial requirements) and those above.

I will just describe the laws for the 50+ years old, but you can read the full rules at: http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php

First, before application you have to prove you are financially capable. This means, 350000 Ringgit on a Malaysia bank account for 3 months. 1 Ringgit is about 10 Baht, so it is about 4 times higher than the Thai 800K requirement.

That comes out as about 115000 USD. Not that low, but anybody who does not have that money should seriously consider if he shall retire or work a bit longer....

But this requirement applies only for 3 months at application time.

After approval, the rules are much relaxed:

You just need to have 150,000 Ringgit, which is about twice the Thai requirement. After one year, you can use up to 50,000 Ringgit to buy property.

That means, if you buy property in the second year, you just have to keep 100,000 Ringgit on a Malaysia bank. This is not much more than the Thai 800KB requirement. The money on the bank will gain interest of approx. 3% per year.

Considering that you have a proper legal status, that you can buy house, land and condos, you are regarded as a proper citizen and not a quasi-tourist as in Thailand, this is a much better deal.

One should also consider the much better infrastructure in Malaysia, similar price levels but better service quality, the more friendly and reasonable people and that English is well spoken and understood.

Up to you.... but I will never understand how people buy 25 Million Baht condos in a dump like Pattaya, when they can have a much cheaper and better quality of life in a place like Penang.

[tailspin]

It's only nice if Abu Sayaaf decide not to show in search of new friends...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Sayyaf

"On May 27, 2001, an Abu Sayyaf raid kidnapped about 20 people from Dos Palmas, an expensive resort in Honda Bay, to the north of Puerto Princesa City on the island of Palawan, which had been "considered completely safe". The most "valuable" of the hostages were three North Americans, Martin and Gracia Burnham (a missionary couple) and Guillermo Sobero (a Peruvian-American tourist who was later beheaded by Abu Sayyaf) for whom Abu Sayyaf demanded $1 million in ransom.^[47] The hostages and hostage-takers then returned hundreds of kilometres back across the Sulu Sea to the Abu Sayyaf's territories in Mindanao.^[48]

According to author Mark Bowden, the leader of the raid was Abu Sabaya. According to Gracia Burnham, she told her husband "to identify his kidnappers" to authorities "as 'the Osama bin Laden Group,' but Burnham was unfamiliar with that name and stuck with" Abu Sayyaf. After returning to Mindanao, Abu Sayyaf operatives conducted numerous raids, "including one at a coconut plantation called Golden Harvest; they took about 15 people captive there and later used bolo knives to hack the heads off two men. The number of hostages waxed and waned as some were ransomed and released, new ones were taken and others were killed."^[48]"

The Palawan Island in The Philippines seems like a nice place. I have never been there but I have heard that it is clean (contrary to many places in The Philippines) with a lot of nature. Puerto Princessa, the capital of Palawan, may be a nice place to live but I do not know if there is a lot to do there. Everybody there can speak some English.

Renoir

[tailspin]

where specifically do you recommend in Penang?

What about Malaysia...10 year visa and you can own land!

Provied you are prepared to put up the cash....

There have been some misleading postings here on the Malaysian "MM2H" (Malaysia my second home) program.

First: this program will give you a proper 10 years visa (extendable), unlike the Thai 1-year "extension of stay". There is no 90-day reporting or other hassle. You are basically accepted as a quasi permanent resident, and your legal status is much better than in Thailand, where you are a always a "farang".

The financial requirements are a bit higher, but a lot of people can easily comply.

The rules devide those below 50 years old (higher financial requirements) and those above.

I will just describe the laws for the 50+ years old, but you can read the full rules at: http://www.mm2h.gov.my/conditions.php

First, before application you have to prove you are financially capable. This means, 350000 Ringgit on a Malaysia bank account for 3 months. 1 Ringgit is about 10 Baht, so it is about 4 times higher than the Thai 800K requirement.

That comes out as about 115000 USD. Not that low, but anybody who does not have that money should seriously consider if he shall retire or work a bit longer....

But this requirement applies only for 3 months at application time.

After approval, the rules are much relaxed:

You just need to have 150,000 Ringgit, which is about twice the Thai requirement. After one year, you can use up to 50,000 Ringgit to buy property.

That means, if you buy property in the second year, you just have to keep 100,000 Ringgit on a Malaysia bank. This is not much more than the Thai 800KB requirement. The money on the bank will gain interest of approx. 3% per year.

Considering that you have a proper legal status, that you can buy house, land and condos, you are regarded as a proper citizen and not a quasi-tourist as in Thailand, this is a much better deal.

One should also consider the much better infrastructure in Malaysia, similar price levels but better service quality, the more friendly and reasonable people and that English is well spoken and understood.

Up to you.... but I will never understand how people buy 25 Million Baht condos in a dump like Pattaya, when they can have a much cheaper and better quality of life in a place like Penang.

[goldenmonkey]

Man, so much useful stuff in this thread. I've spent only a month in Thailand and i'm planning to go back to CM for at least 6 months, but I tend to agree with some of the posters

that for long term it might not be the best option - Too hot summers, ppl living in a cultural box, not enough english and alike. Time to check out Cambodia, Columbia and PI.

[goldenmonkey]

Peru after the backpacking would never do it for me. I'd be looking at Venezuela, Panama, Nicaragua possibly Belize (think that is pretty done). But I need a coast.

I've thought about some little place on a lake in upper Michigan, Washington...but you need an add'l place for winters. Too bad there is no input from E Europe and Balkans, I bet Serbia, Croatia, Yugoslavia could be nice. Anyone have any experience with the lower Virginia and esp Georgia coasts of the USA? How about Alaska for six months a year??

I think too many people are married to the idea of going to one place, having a essentially 'indefinite' visa (JT) as well as lovely temperate year round weather. 23 pages of posts and no one has come u with that paradise. There is nothing wrong with having to do a bi of a visa run every few months.

As I understand this was SOP for most CA expats up until a few years ago - and as Renoir states, still being done in many countries in S/CA to date. The real sticking point is if the visa running is condoned. Think Thailand some years back...visas flowed like wine, 30 days stamps at the door. Only the idiots and the infirm would bother with the hassle.

I'm from E Europe. Though there are so many nice places to visit, i wouldn't recommend any of these countries for retirement. Staying in the US or Thailand is way superior. But if u want to take a look, prob. various parts of Slovenia is the best bet (beautiful scenery, most advanced in the area in terms of economy, infrastructure, services and mentality - bit more expensive than the rest but not as much as western countries) and Prague for culture and social life (oh and for the decriminalized weed of course ).

[Jingthing]

Does Libya offer a retirement visa?

[mijan24]

*any good places?

Duluth, Minnesota,

Unterpfaffenhofen, Bavaria,

Figastretta, Sicily,

Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso,

Cazzoduro, Northern Italy,

Dacca, Bangla Desh,

Tamanrasset, Southern Algeria,

and last not least Vunamami, Papua New Guinea.

Naam some very interesting suggestions - Vunamami in PNG ? is my only querie PNG some beautiful spots for sure but retirement/safety go together when considering retirement and SAFETY is a major issue in PNG has been ever since indepence back in 1975.

[londoedan]

Man, so much useful stuff in this thread. I've spent only a month in Thailand and i'm planning to go back to CM for at least 6 months, but I tend to agree with some of the posters

that for long term it might not be the best option - Too hot summers, ppl living in a cultural box, not enough english and alike. Time to check out Cambodia, Columbia and PI.

And Indonesia !

[Old Croc]

*any good places?

Duluth, Minnesota,

Unterpfaffenhofen, Bavaria,

Figastretta, Sicily,

Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso,

Cazzoduro, Northern Italy,

Dacca, Bangla Desh,

Tamanrasset, Southern Algeria,

and last not least Vunamami, Papua New Guinea.

Naam some very interesting suggestions - Vunamami in PNG ? is my only querie PNG some beautiful spots for sure but retirement/safety go together when considering retirement and SAFETY is a major issue in PNG has been ever since indepence back in 1975.

You have to love ThaiVisa!

No matter how idiotic (or even obscene) a post is, someone will take it seriously!

[Naam]

*any good places?

Duluth, Minnesota,

Unterpfaffenhofen, Bavaria,

Figastretta, Sicily,

Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso,

Cazzoduro, Northern Italy,

Dacca, Bangla Desh,

Tamanrasset, Southern Algeria,

and last not least Vunamami, Papua New Guinea.

Naam some very interesting suggestions - Vunamami in PNG ? is my only querie PNG some beautiful spots for sure but retirement/safety go together when considering retirement and SAFETY is a major issue in PNG has been ever since indepence back in 1975.

You have to love ThaiVisa!

No matter how idiotic (or even obscene) a post is, someone will take it seriously!

Old Croc,

am i correct to assume that you know this utterly obscene place (run by three ugly sisters) in Vunamami? i always thought you are a cultured gentleman.

[Old Croc]

*any good places?

Duluth, Minnesota,

Unterpfaffenhofen, Bavaria,

Figastretta, Sicily,

Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso,

Cazzoduro, Northern Italy,

Dacca, Bangla Desh,

Tamanrasset, Southern Algeria,

and last not least Vunamami, Papua New Guinea.

Naam some very interesting suggestions - Vunamami in PNG ? is my only querie PNG some beautiful spots for sure but retirement/safety go together when considering retirement and SAFETY is a major issue in PNG has been ever since indepence back in 1975.

You have to love ThaiVisa!

No matter how idiotic (or even obscene) a post is, someone will take it seriously!

Old Croc,

am i correct to assume that you know this utterly obscene place (run by three ugly sisters) in Vunamami? i always thought you are a cultured gentleman.

I know I wont be going to Sicily and asking for figastretta! (nor cazzoduro!)

[Oorinara]

Philippine Retirement Authority has changend the deposit reuirement for its permanent residency program since 2011. Instant permanent residency for US$ 20k per family seems cheap, presumably due to lesser polularity than Thailand and Malaysia!?

http://www.pra.gov.ph/main/srrv_program?page=1

[moe666]

Philippine Retirement Authority has changend the deposit reuirement for its permanent residency program since 2011. Instant permanent residency for US$ 20k per family seems cheap, presumably due to lesser polularity than Thailand and Malaysia!?

http://www.pra.gov.p..._program?page=1

I have visited the Philippines numerous times, the food sucks, the infastructure sucks, the corruption sucks, the crime sucks, and the girls do also. It is a ok place to visit but to live there no way, I will stay in good old Thailand

[Jingthing]

Philippine Retirement Authority has changend the deposit reuirement for its permanent residency program since 2011. Instant permanent residency for US$ 20k per family seems cheap, presumably due to lesser polularity than Thailand and Malaysia!?

http://www.pra.gov.p..._program?page=1

I have visited the Philippines numerous times, the food sucks, the infastructure sucks, the corruption sucks, the crime sucks, and the girls do also. It is a ok place to visit but to live there no way, I will stay in good old Thailand

Thanks for that. Yes some of that is new. The SRRV Smile, 20K in bank which you can't touch is very similar to Ecuador's bank program (which is 25K). The SSRV Classic for over 50's doesn't make much sense. The investments are 10K or 20K depending on pension or not, but you can't convert the bank deposit to an investiment unless it's 50K. I also prefer Thailand to the Philippines but the Philippines retirement program is better (more stable for retirees).

[NeverSure]

I have visited the Philippines numerous times, the food sucks, the infastructure sucks, the corruption sucks, the crime sucks, and the girls do also. It is a ok place to visit but to live there no way, I will stay in good old Thailand

I keep tryin' ta tell ya'll. The gals in the PI and in S. America have b@@bs if that matters to anyone. (Personally I like the slim Thais best, but what would I know?)

I know Americans who go to Mexico and SA for the shape of the ladies. Anywhere it's 3rd world and poverty, the gals will like the Westerner. LOS doesn't have a lock on that.

I like the English in the PI, and Spanish is easy to learn, but Thailand has so many good things they don't. Want/need cheap I'd say go to a smallish town deep into Isaan.

The way some guys live in LOS, they could cruise in the US if they stayed away from the famous and expensive places.

[waza]

With 1k/2k USD budget i will restart the thread with the best avail choise, Vietnam. Muslim countries are too different to be safe, Philippine is not safe and with too many hurricanes....

Thanks for the post but some of the assumptions I disagree with.

Philippines has a lower murder rate than Thailand..........my guess is that the same can be said for Vietnam and Malaysia.

Certainly, from my own personal experience, the safest country I have ever lived in was dominated by Islam.

Crime is often related to location within the country.

For example, there are places in both Thailand and the Philippines that are safe.........and places that are not safe.

The tropical storms that surge through the Philippines are an issue........but I think mostly if you live on the eastern side (not totally sure here).

I would not be so quick to dismiss Vietnam and the Philippines as possible alternatives.

I think Vietnam does not allow you to drive yourself there or have your own car. Also not sure if you as a foreigner, are allowed to go anywhere in the country.

I had rented scooters in Vietnam before and rode around Hanoi.

[waza]

I will give Burma a try next.

[Jingthing]

I will give Burma a try next.

That's nice. I don't think its open to foreigners retirement though.

[NeverSure]

You are just making excuses.

The B1/2 is actually a NON-IMMIGRANT visa good for TEN YEARS. It only asks that you leave the country and return. It requires no money, no purchase of housing, no bribes, NO REPORTING, NO BABYSITTING.

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? How much of a problem is a flight home OR Canada or Cancun, Mexico or the Bahama's - possibly even Puerto Rico?!

90% of expats in Thailand would give their left nut for this option.

Yes, there are some wealthy Europeans that feel inconvenienced. So what, US gets only half the time in Europe before we have to leave.

we lived 15 years in the U.S. based on this visa moving between our homes in Germany and Florida. after sep 11 the goal posts changed. when arriving in the U.S. questions such as "who are, what are you, why are you?" were asked. most of the time we faced polite immigration officers but sometimes extremely rude ones, i.e. "keep your tax returns! we are the INS not the IRS!"

shortly before Christmas 2003 my wife called me from Atlanta under tears. she returned from a trip to London and was asked the usual question "what is the purpose of your visit?" when her answer was "we have a home in Florida and spend most of our time there" she was told "having a home in Florida is not a valid reason to enter the United States. this time i will grant you admission. but don't bank on it next time"

three months later our home and the homes i built for two german friends next to ours were sold and we left.

result: no more IRS, no more fancy property tax, no more hurricane insurance premiums but polite immigration officers at Suvarnaswampy.

Naam

If anything it has gotten worse and it makes no difference if you are a citizen or not. They basically treat everyone like criminals. They only seem to hire a$$holes with no common sense.

The wife and I left The Greatest Country on Earth in 1982 and for the first 20 years spent less than 6 months there total, in the last 10 years I spent a total of three weeks before this trip. So I see many really impressive changes and if it wasn't for the government it would be a marvelous place to live. We recently bought a townhouse in North Idaho as we have family there and wanted to spend time with them. The prices are less than the building cost if you shop around.

we bought a 3BR 2 1/2 Ba 1760 sq ft. (about 160 sq mt) foreclosure that had never been lived in. We have only been here for 6 weeks but I must say I really enjoy it. The drivers do what you expect and stay in there own lane and follow the rules of the road. My wife even drives here and would never drive in Thailand. The food in the super markets is mind blowing for both the quantity and the quality.. The people are friendly and will even say "I don't know" and not lose face. The thing I like most is the ease in striking up a conversation with someone and being able to understand what they are saying.

We will return to Cha Am on the 15th of September and stay there until next summer in Idaho, chances are good our next trip to the US will be a bit longer than this one. Medical is a huge problem and I would not recommend the US unless you have insurance. We signed up for medicare and bought a supplement that covers everything so we have no problems there, the $9060 a year for the two of us was a bit of a shock though. But since I am older than dirt and didn't sign up at 65 I pay a penalty of 10% per year or 120% more than someone else my age. Paying a penalty for not costing anything is more than a little strange, but that is part of the wisdumb of the Govt.

It is almost 8PM and it is bright and sunny, quite a change. The temp hit 89F today, and yes they still have not taken up the metric system for some strange reason, to complicated for the politicians I think. There are things we miss about Thailand. I know my wife misses our housekeeper and her cat, which we will bring next time. The cat that is. But for the most part we have been to busy to miss much.

BT

I've made the argument before either in this thread or another that I can live just as cheaply in the US as I can in LOS. That's because I expect more than most Thais do.

At the top of the list is health care which could be the biggie. My Medicare Advantage costs me just $US125 per month and it's full coverage including prescription drugs. I can't even get coverage in LOS.

Next I would choose a place which has a low cost of living, even by US standards. That wouldn't be a cold place either like Idaho or Minnesota. It wouldn't be in the SE either due to humidity, thunderstorms, tornadoes and hurricanes. It would probably be in the SW in rural Arizona or W. Texas, although I would consider SW Oregon. I also wouldn't choose a high altitude due to cold.

I would pay a bit more for housing, although I could find something for $100,000 which would, gasp, include the land under it. I could find something to rent in rural US for $600 and lose there, but I'd save a ton on Western food, sundries, clothes, cars, gas, and almost everything else. Utilities including cable and internet would be more, but they would be way better.

I also feel more freedom because I'm a citizen and don't need permission to be, or to move, or to work...

Right now my cost of living in the US is higher than h3ll but that's my choice. I have ten times more home and land than I need. I have a car and an F150 4x4 and Harleys and all of the insurance and maintenance costs that go with all of that. I'm just saying that if I really wanted to cut costs, I surely could.

LOS is getting expensive if I want to maintain my lifestyle.

I'm now having a hard time deciding to actually move to LOS. I might just decide to stay put and vacation in LOS about 2 or 3 times a year for 90 days. Dunno yet.