Alternative Retirement Destinations For Expats (other Than Thailand)

[Naam]

the U.S. as an alternative retirement destination is out of question for non-U.S. citizens.

[NeverSure]

the U.S. as an alternative retirement destination is out of question for non-U.S. citizens.

Apparently if you're one of about 12 million who swim across the Rio Grande from Mexico you'll get a path to citizenship and no hassles. Oh, and if you're Hispanic.

[Naam]

the U.S. as an alternative retirement destination is out of question for non-U.S. citizens.

Apparently if you're one of about 12 million who swim across the Rio Grande from Mexico you'll get a path to citizenship and no hassles. Oh, and if you're Hispanic.

just before we left the U.S. (because of the constant hassle at entry) after spending nearly 15 happy years one of our neighbours mentioned "too bad that your name is not Gonzales or Garcia or Echevarria."

[LongTimeLurker]

With 1k/2k USD budget i will restart the thread with the best avail choise, Vietnam. Muslim countries are too different to be safe, Philippine is not safe and with too many hurricanes....

Thanks for the post but some of the assumptions I disagree with.

Philippines has a lower murder rate than Thailand..........my guess is that the same can be said for Vietnam and Malaysia.

Certainly, from my own personal experience, the safest country I have ever lived in was dominated by Islam.

Crime is often related to location within the country.

For example, there are places in both Thailand and the Philippines that are safe.........and places that are not safe.

The tropical storms that surge through the Philippines are an issue........but I think mostly if you live on the eastern side (not totally sure here).

I would not be so quick to dismiss Vietnam and the Philippines as possible alternatives.

I think Vietnam does not allow you to drive yourself there or have your own car. Also not sure if you as a foreigner, are allowed to go anywhere in the country.

I had rented scooters in Vietnam before and rode around Hanoi.

It's only legal to drive in Vietnam if you have a VN license which you can get if you have a residence visa however they don't have a Retirement Visa.

Foreigners can rent and own and drive cars.

If foreigners were not allowed to go anywhere in the country it would destroy the tourism industry don't you think?

[cambtek]

Great thread this,really informative.Now my two cents worth, having travelled all over asia.I lived in bangkok for years in the late seventies, early eighties and I have spent over five years in phnom penh/sihanoukville.

Sri lanka- beautiful island, shit government and people.

Bali-beautiful island, off tne beaten track lovely people and attractive for aussie retirees especially.

Malaysia- shit.

Vietnam- nice, cheap but severe government and getting worse.

Cambodia- one can now own apartments above the ground floor in dedicated buildings but not cheap or well built.No rule of law but we can work and own businesses with nil restrictions and only a few people have problems with corruption.Usually corruption is our friend, minimal taxes, can drive drunk, can use drugs,can do anything.Rent and food not really cheap but ciggies and alcohol incredibly cheap.Serious crime against us very rare,the people are all smiles and usually genuine.Only two good hospitals but self medication is very cheap.Phnom Penh has many marvellous restaurants and coffee shops and great bread and baguettes.Internet fast and very cheap, 2 giv of fast wifi only $5 a month!

No paperwork for visas or driving licences, just go to the moto shop or travel agent.

Kampot is a lovely cheap colonial town nearby kep has great seafood but both deathly quiet places.Sihanoukville is not far away on a shocking road, beaches OK, bars are tacky as are many expat residents, the islands are just opening up and are spectacular.But it rains for two or three months a year and it is dreary.

The place I enjoy everytime I visit and my sons birthplace-Thailand.Has to be the best place overall, doesnt it?

[MrWorldwide]

Care to elaborate on the reasons why Malaysia is 'shit' ? That hasn't been my experience at al, but I've never spent more than a week there at any given time. The fact that your view of Bali seems awfully rosy compared to the reality of Kuta leads me to wonder how much time you have spent there. I would look at Bandung, Bogor or Yogyakarta over Bali but none of the former are promoted as destinations in their own right. Sure, Bali is a lot more than the Kuta tourist trap, but I'm willing to bet that anyone accustomed to the infrastructure in most provinces of Thailand would soon be left wondering where the hell all those tourist dollars went My guess is that they are in pockets all over Jakarta, but that's a topic for another thread.

Personlly, I'd take downtown Chumphon or Udon Thani over anywhere I've been on Bali : at least I'd be able to find a decent supermarket and a department store that bore some resemblance to the entity of the same name here in Oz. As a huge fan of tropical gardens, I still love Balinese-style gardens but the island itself is massively over-hyped and overrated, IMO.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I love this article I'm linking below on retirement to Medellin, Columbia, not for the article itself which is a load of c**p, but for the many reply comments calling it that. Another example of horrible retirement journalism at its best. Sad that it actually gets published under the website of U.S. News & World Report.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-medellin-colombia-great-retirement-194704350.html

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This thread is now at 25 pages, and I don't know that any clear and good alternative destination has emerged by consensus. And of course, different things will have different levels of importance for different people.

Right now, if I had to live somewhere outside the U.S. other than Thailand, from everything I've read and seen, I'd probably choose Phnom Penh. A lot of good things going for it as Cambtek points out above, including the local use there of the U.S. $. But the level and quality of medical care there is a personal concern. Hopefully it will improve in the coming years with the arrival of AEC and so on.

I could have considered the PH, but the level of corruption there probably exceeds that of TH, especially in the worst ways (instead of the more common government funds skimming that occurs here). English language friendly is nice, but the food's horrible, I'm not looking for a Catholic re-birth or celebrating annual crucifixtions, the tropical storms can be really bad, and the levels of crime are high and infrastructure quality low, certainly lower than TH.

South America -- nothing attractive really stands out.

Panama -- worth checking into more.

Mexico -- no way in h*ll.

Vietnam -- maybe it's the Vietnam War thing with Americans. Maybe it's the communist government. Maybe it's my mixed Thai-Vietnamese friends who came back from a tourist trip with (bad) stories to tell...

Malaysia and other Muslim oriented places -- no thanks!

What am I missing???

[ITGabs]

Something that I don't like from South America is the high delinquency and corruption, there are very nice places to live, great food, good prices, amazing people but security is something that you'll miss

I lived in Chile, Argentina and Brazil, some of my closest friend have been lived in Ecuador, Peru and Puerto Rico, the first barrier is the language, very few people speak English South America is just Spanish everywhere inclusive in Brazil where the official language is Portuguese.

I am in Ao Nang now, I love the mix between montains, beach, jungle, lovely and nice people (not in the touristic areas) plus all the good and bad of Thailand

I am looking Cambodia and Vietnam as alternatives just for try something different

[Jingthing]

For anyone interested in retirement in Peru using the rentista visa, I think I have detected a positive change in their policies. Before they required the funds to be IMPORTED into Peru into a Peruvian bank to prove but now the proof is based on a document from the institution paying the income. Generally, official pensions. The requirement is only 1,000 USD per month. So anyone who says Thailand has an el cheapo program, well, it's not that el cheapo. Why Peru? Well the food is great anyway. Also, Peru rentista visa offers an optional path to citizenship.

[Tomtomtom69]

With 1k/2k USD budget i will restart the thread with the best avail choise, Vietnam. Muslim countries are too different to be safe, Philippine is not safe and with too many hurricanes....

Thanks for the post but some of the assumptions I disagree with.

Philippines has a lower murder rate than Thailand..........my guess is that the same can be said for Vietnam and Malaysia.

Certainly, from my own personal experience, the safest country I have ever lived in was dominated by Islam.

Crime is often related to location within the country.

For example, there are places in both Thailand and the Philippines that are safe.........and places that are not safe.

The tropical storms that surge through the Philippines are an issue........but I think mostly if you live on the eastern side (not totally sure here).

I would not be so quick to dismiss Vietnam and the Philippines as possible alternatives.

I think Vietnam does not allow you to drive yourself there or have your own car. Also not sure if you as a foreigner, are allowed to go anywhere in the country.

Absolute garbage. In Vietnam, you can now go anywhere you want - maybe not 20 years ago but now you can (unlike in Myanmar). You can also own your own car and drive it, but you do need a local Vietnamese license to be legal. There are plenty of foreigners with cars in Vietnam (I've seen them with my own eyes). I even have a Vietnamese license.

[Tomtomtom69]

Care to elaborate on the reasons why Malaysia is 'shit' ? That hasn't been my experience at al, but I've never spent more than a week there at any given time. The fact that your view of Bali seems awfully rosy compared to the reality of Kuta leads me to wonder how much time you have spent there. I would look at Bandung, Bogor or Yogyakarta over Bali but none of the former are promoted as destinations in their own right. Sure, Bali is a lot more than the Kuta tourist trap, but I'm willing to bet that anyone accustomed to the infrastructure in most provinces of Thailand would soon be left wondering where the hell all those tourist dollars went My guess is that they are in pockets all over Jakarta, but that's a topic for another thread.

Personlly, I'd take downtown Chumphon or Udon Thani over anywhere I've been on Bali : at least I'd be able to find a decent supermarket and a department store that bore some resemblance to the entity of the same name here in Oz. As a huge fan of tropical gardens, I still love Balinese-style gardens but the island itself is massively over-hyped and overrated, IMO.

Malaysia has great infrastructure, less corruption than Thailand, people actually speak English (not just with an embarrassingly awful accent and grammar when speaking with foreigners) but they even speak it with each other!, the shopping malls are great, so are the beaches. Best to stick to a multicultural city like KL or Penang though, even Langkawi is great, obviously not the east as it's quite conservative there.

[ppmacready]

I think the smarter Thais would like to leave too!

[camcoHRS]

I have lived and owned businesses in Cambodia for almost 7 years. In general it is a great place to do business probably the best in all SE Asia since you are dealing in USD and not a non conv. currency. Cost of living is VERY cheap and you can easily have a nice life here for $1000/month. The hassle factor is very low. Multiple entry year long visas are easy and only about $280.

I have a small business, that unfortunately I must sell due to health reasons as I must return to the US, and it has done very well for 4 years. Having a small business is easy here to supplement your retirement funds. If you just want to work for someone else that is fairly easy and available.

But just like Thailand it has its darkside too.

I just completed an extensive research project to locate the next place I will live. One important issue is the cost of legal residency. This is what knocked out the Philippines and many other good places for me. (in Cambodia you dont need it)

A very good website to compare cost of living in different countries is www.numbeo.com this site uses expats in each country-city to fill in detailed lists of costs for all kinds of goods and services. I found it to be the most accurate and accessible of all such sites. I used these reports to make a cost of living index that fit my lifestyle and the results were surprising. Ecuador came out one of the cheapest as did Tunisia. Panama, the Philippines and some others came out much more expensive overall.

[MrWorldwide]

I think the smarter Thais would like to leave too!

Right, like the Chinese Thais who make more money each month than you will see in an entire lifetime. There are advantages to living in a kleptocracy, as long as you are on top of the pyramid, and that applies across a large chunk of Asia IMO. The Mumbai billionaire who built a skyscraper for his family to live in while he continues to build his property empire takes the cake for mine - they could all be living on an island in the Seychelles, but clearly dad feels the need to keep his finger on the pulse.

[Jingthing]

Over 4,000 American f-rangs gringos in Cuenca Ecuador. Oh my! Now after this tv report, Katie bar the door!

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/americans-find-retirement-paradise-ecuador/story?id=19187268

[MrWorldwide]

Ecuador has had plenty of recommendations here - jury is still out, for mine.

[Jingthing]

Ecuador has had plenty of recommendations here - jury is still out, for mine.

It's hard to have a credible opinion about any place before even visiting. I haven't been there. In my past I was interested in some countries and then visited. Then I wasn't interested. Like Costa Rica.

BTW, Cuenca is in the process of building a fantastic modern urban light rail system:

http://www.cuencahighlife.com/post/2012/10/30/Cuencas-new-light-rail-system-Tranvia-de-los-Cuatro-Rios-begins-construction-in-November.aspx

Imagine such a system in Chiang Mai or Pattaya. That's all you'll do because it ain't happening here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I_6n-CyOsA&feature=related

[lapd]

Ecuador is rated #1 for North Americans. Which probably means it will get expensive and be ruined shortly. Panama #2 but I think that place is already relatively expensive. Interestingly Malaysia comes in at #3. One reason they give is that you can own property.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/01/04/the-10-best-countries-to-retire-to-in-2013/

[Jingthing]

Panama City is on the expensive side but apparently there are budget options for those interested in living in the boonies.

Cuenca is the hot spot in Ecuador. The real estate goes up every year, but the expat market accounts for less than 1 percent of sales and some developers won't even sell to foreigners (too demanding). The big driver there are Ecuadorians who have worked in the USA.

Forbes is geared towards to the wealthier market. Many American expats who can qualify for Thailand cannot qualify for Malaysia or Malta. But Panama and Ecuador are more at Thai levels of qualification.

[deesamui]

1000 US$ per month to live in South or Central America ? pretty much impossible ! in CR or Panama 555

1500 US$ per month is possible, but not fun at all

45000 bath in LOS gives you probably more quality of life there

most of the retirement destinations in int.living are pretty much for people with more than 2500 US$ per month retirement

(remember: 550$ per month in CM, 650$in..., 750$ in..., just a joke )

stay in LOS as long as you can, still the biggest bang for your bucks and more entertaining especially on TV

cheers

[Jingthing]

Thailand is good, but it doesn't hurt to know what else is out there ...

[deesamui]

jt you are absolutely right, but there is so much misleading information out there,especially from real estate agents ( different forums created

by them ) especially in panama and cr bothgreat places to retire,if you can afford it ), here comes the but, SEAsian countries are the cheapest

countries for adventurous expats to retire, theese are my rankings :

#1 LOS ( best in housing, infrastucture, HC, expatcommunity and much more )

#2 the Philipines ( very closed, for shure better beaches but the food?? )

#3 Vietnam ( will be in 10 years #1 )

#4 cambodia

#5 Laos

Burma/Mmar will catch up soon

as I say, just my thoughts

send from my spaceship cruising above patters looking at gogos through my telescope using my TVisaSpaceShipApp

for all the critics, spellcheck is not working andIamfrommars

[Jingthing]

I was speaking before about financial levels for retirement visa qualification. Not actual costs. Malaysia isn't as expensive as their retirement visa qualifications might imply. Panama isn't as cheap especially in Panama City as their retirement visa qualifications might imply.

[lovelaos]

Ecuador is rated #1 for North Americans. Which probably means it will get expensive and be ruined shortly. Panama #2 but I think that place is already relatively expensive. Interestingly Malaysia comes in at #3. One reason they give is that you can own property.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/01/04/the-10-best-countries-to-retire-to-in-2013/

For that reason alone, them 3 are wiped from my list then.

[lovelaos]

jt you are absolutely right, but there is so much misleading information out there,especially from real estate agents ( different forums created

by them ) especially in panama and cr bothgreat places to retire,if you can afford it ), here comes the but, SEAsian countries are the cheapest

countries for adventurous expats to retire, theese are my rankings :

#1 LOS ( best in housing, infrastucture, HC, expatcommunity and much more )

#2 the Philipines ( very closed, for shure better beaches but the food?? )

#3 Vietnam ( will be in 10 years #1 )

#4 cambodia

#5 Laos

Burma/Mmar will catch up soon

as I say, just my thoughts

send from my spaceship cruising above patters looking at gogos through my telescope using my TVisaSpaceShipApp

for all the critics, spellcheck is not working andIamfrommars

Laos doesn't have a retirement visa.

[Jingthing]

Laos doesn't have a retirement visa.

Nor does Vietnam or Cambodia. But Cambodia is no problem for long term visas.

[Jingthing]

Ecuador is rated #1 for North Americans. Which probably means it will get expensive and be ruined shortly. Panama #2 but I think that place is already relatively expensive. Interestingly Malaysia comes in at #3. One reason they give is that you can own property.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/01/04/the-10-best-countries-to-retire-to-in-2013/

For that reason alone, them 3 are wiped from my list then.

I'm not fully convinced of that. For example as said Cuenca is the hot spot for North American retired expats but only 4000 of them in a moderate sized second city of Ecuador, and accounting for less than one percent of the real estate sales there.

[NeverSure]

Ecuador is rated #1 for North Americans. Which probably means it will get expensive and be ruined shortly. Panama #2 but I think that place is already relatively expensive. Interestingly Malaysia comes in at #3. One reason they give is that you can own property.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsmith/2013/01/04/the-10-best-countries-to-retire-to-in-2013/

For that reason alone, them 3 are wiped from my list then.

I'm not fully convinced of that. For example as said Cuenca is the hot spot for North American retired expats but only 4000 of them in a moderate sized second city of Ecuador, and accounting for less than one percent of the real estate sales there.

You can own real estate there. After a certain time, you can pay into their national health care system. There is no minimum retirement age. These obviously aren't available in LOS.

However, they are getting tired of expats and they do have real estate prices including rent prices rising above the ability of natives to pay. They don't have the real estate/condo bubble that keeps rents low. I don't know about sales, but rents are really rising to about double that of LOS and that hurts the natives.

A lot of expats are getting frustrated with their slow visa process, sometimes taking almost a year and a couple of trips home. Some docs have to come from the home country and they expire before the process is complete. Some think it is deliberate by locals.

I have promoted Ecuador as an alternative to LOS due to the short flight to the US or Canada as opposed to LOS, and for anyone who isn't 50 or doesn't meet the financial requirements in LOS. It's a beautiful country without the heat and humidy but I would use it only if I didn't qualify for SE Asia. I might even choose Cambodia first if I didn't qualify for LOS.

Just my two cents.

[Jingthing]

I agree there are serious difficulties with getting into the Ecuador visa system. There seems to be a trend of some kind towards improvement, such as the opening of a Cuenca immigration office and their announcement no lawyers needed (but probably still needed). Perhaps there is hope it will get better over time. Again, the driver of the real estate in Cuenca is Ecuadorians. How can less than 1 percent of the market drive prices?