Thai Government Hangs By A Thread

[Changian]

If the government does fall, mob rule will have won the day.

Yeah, it'd be like when a small group forced the closure of the airport in order to get their guys in power and remove the elected government.

[chadintheusa]

lets spend thaksins billions on fixing the damage done today

[ratcatcher]

If the government does fall, mob rule will have won the day.

Yeah, it'd be like when a small group forced the closure of the airport in order to get their guys in power and remove the elected government.

That's a IF

[timekeeper]

the reds intention all along was to promote a violent response but it would be on their terms

the fugitive Arisaman drew first blood at the EC commission, but he was not denounced by the red protesters or their leaders

they thought it was great fun and a victory for them

Arisaman did it again the very next day by entering parliament

he was mildly rebuked by the red shirt leaders but they did not feel inclined to turn him in or make him turn himself in, which would have been a real media coup for the reds

the red supporters thought it was a great victory for the cause and cheered him on

now the government has clamped down on them, its not going to plan and its no longer on their terms, they are displaying their most common characteristic of being lying, whinging, cowards who do not find it so funny when the intimidation they have thrust upon on others is turned around and aimed back at them.

a most typical reaction from bullies

its very simple now , under SOE, the Reds are breaking the law simply by being there and can be removed at any cost

showing tear gas cannisters, spent bullet casings, displaying injured protesters and publicly crying and whining on about how badly the poor down trodden protesters have been dealt with by Abhisit, the Police & Army does not cut any ice with me i am afraid

the reds knew what they were coming to Bangkok to do and they knew the risks involved

they have been coached in violence by their leaders 24 hours a day for weeks if not months

so it should not be a surprise to them that they have achieved their goal and finally got their way

they wanted a violent confrontation and now they have it

so reds, if they do not like whats happening to you then pack up and go home but please stop moaning about it like you were innocent lambs to the slaughter, if you fly with crows like Jutaporn and Arisaman, its likely you will get shot with them

or

get up off your collective knees, stand up and deal with whats happening to you, earn your 500 baht and get stuck in.

at least have the conviction to the Red cause to show the world what you really are

Edited April 10, 2010 by timekeeper

[TiredTeacher]

I fully support a coup that is followed by free and fair elections.

That's how we got to this point in the first place.

History does keep repeating itself in Thai politics

It may sound weird but I am personally impressed with Thai politics! Before you shoot from the hip...

1. Thai politics is not red shirts, yellow shirts, rainbow shirts etc... it is a system of each person who is frustrated having a say. You could think this is nonsense and you may say the reds and yellows (of the past political movement) are paid to attend etc. Stop for a minute, people do not endure tear gas and bullets for a few baht i.e. the protesters are not motivated 100% by employment. I wish we had this level of expression and government consideration in the West. I would not have had to pay close to 50% tax there and have to wait 6 months for medical treatment nor would I have seen the last Middle East war, privatization of hospitals, schools etc. Thailand protests are emulating a France style system and the Thai government is emulating a UK style system (give or take a few +/-).

2. Before things got messy within the last few days, the Thai govt gave massive debt relief to the poor here. When was the last time we got debt relief in the West? The UK government did not forgive student loans, pensioners got a £2 a month increase... give a government free reign and they tend to move into ivory towers!

3. Thailand even has a NHS style service, that for the classification of a developing nation, is better than we have in the UK and the US is a system of: no money = no stitchy (play on no money = no funny; stitchy = doctor stitching you up in a medical sense).

With each cycle of small revolutions, Thailand learns a lot and government develops... call it teething pains of entry into the 21st century.

So, as a foreigner, there are pros and cons of all actions. I am saddened to see blood shed. And once the dust settles I hope, as a foreigner that has worked legally for the benefit of Thais and who has a Thai wife and Thai son, that one day Thailand will grant legal rights to Westerners in Thailand. Maybe this will stop the numerous farang suicides - these people are the same as rainbow shirt people without even having 0.001% voice; their only hope is to jump from the tallest building!

Edited April 10, 2010 by TiredTeacher

[Changian]

Teargas & lots of gunfire around Hotel De Moc and Khao San area right now - according to this twitterer

http://twitter.com/bethanyshondark

[pimay11]

You know the sad thing about this is that Thaksin is probably 'knocking on out' over all this. He does not give on iota about the people that are being injured or even worse. He should take full responsibility for his actions. He has left the Country divided to meet his own ends. These poor ignorant farm workers are paying the full price, while he is probably sat drinking G and T's in Dubai.

Hardly. I don't get it, why do so many people pass Issan folk as "poor, ignorant, farm workers", who are willing to blindly follow Thaksin like sheep? Many of them may not have education, but they are human, and do have intelligence and critical thinking skills.

Thaksin simply opened the door for them after centuries of oppression, and let them know what kind of life is possible if they reach out for it. It's just that the door he opened can never be shut. Given everything, I'm certain the red shirts would be doing exactly what they're doing now, with or without Thaksin around.

cdmatt what planet are you from? I live in Isaan and the head of the village is my wife's uncle. This is a big village consisting of more than 4,000 households. There are presently over 250 local pepole who have joined the rally for three weeks. The are each being paid 500 Baht a day and do not have a clue about democracy. They only follow orders from the red leaders. At least they are making money to send back to their families because now there is no work here until the rains come and rice planting starts. You are correct in saying they are human and they are salt of the earth people. But their critcal thinking skills are only in planting rice and trying to find where tomorrows income will come from. Sure there are people in Isaan who are educated and meet your explaination of "Issan folk" but these are not the ones participating in the demonstrations. The edcuated ones are carrying on with their business as always and would not think of joining these reds in Bangkok.

[TheItaliann]

Americans don't have the balls to protest. They just have their elections with two parties who pretend to be different.

[monkfish]

If the government does fall, mob rule will have won the day.

I can't help thinking that will keep Thailand shackled in the early 20th century.

Most democracies start this way

[4223rhodes]

You know the sad thing about this is that Thaksin is probably 'knocking on out' over all this. He does not give on iota about the people that are being injured or even worse. He should take full responsibility for his actions. He has left the Country divided to meet his own ends. These poor ignorant farm workers are paying the full price, while he is probably sat drinking G and T's in Dubai.

Hardly. I don't get it, why do so many people pass Issan folk as "poor, ignorant, farm workers", who are willing to blindly follow Thaksin like sheep? Many of them may not have education, but they are human, and do have intelligence and critical thinking skills.

Thaksin simply opened the door for them after centuries of oppression, and let them know what kind of life is possible if they reach out for it. It's just that the door he opened can never be shut. Given everything, I'm certain the red shirts would be doing exactly what they're doing now, with or without Thaksin around.

cdmatt what planet are you from? I live in Isaan and the head of the village is my wife's uncle. This is a big village consisting of more than 4,000 households. There are presently over 250 local pepole who have joined the rally for three weeks. The are each being paid 500 Baht a day and do not have a clue about democracy. They only follow orders from the red leaders. At least they are making money to send back to their families because now there is no work here until the rains come and rice planting starts. You are correct in saying they are human and they are salt of the earth people. But their critcal thinking skills are only in planting rice and trying to find where tomorrows income will come from. Sure there are people in Isaan who are educated and meet your explaination of "Issan folk" but these are not the ones participating in the demonstrations. The edcuated ones are carrying on with their business as always and would not think of joining these reds in Bangkok.

Sounds like you talked to the one yellow in the village, not the drunken Swede I hope?

[TheItaliann]

Teargas & lots of gunfire around Hotel De Moc and Khao San area right now - according to this twitterer

http://twitter.com/bethanyshondark

Yummy.

[jackr]

But the people in the North and North-East aren't given the equal job opportunities so that they can make the money to afford this kind of treatment.

That's what you'd call tough titties and is the way the cookie crumbles I'm afraid. Some folk will always be destined to till the fields while others will cream millions on the stocks. There will always be winners and losers. Life's not a charity unfortunately; one has to get off one's butt to earn the things they desire. While Isaan is the poor man of Thailand, there are also very poor people in other regions, including Bangkok... just that a few have been lucky enough to be given decent education/options outside the realm of the powers that be.

To be fair, Muang Thai has improved massively over the last few decades, but everyone can't be catered for at once... i.e, Somchai the farmer working the stock exchange for the sake of equality ain't gonna work now is it. Thailand is still a developing nation and it'll take generations of an improved education system for the masses to be brought up to speed.

[Chaimai]

Americans don't have the balls to protest. They just have their elections with two parties who pretend to be different.

UK system same same (they have a third party, that never wins, just to add some variety - bit like a 'don't know' party)

[bangkokrick]

You know the sad thing about this is that Thaksin is probably 'knocking on out' over all this. He does not give on iota about the people that are being injured or even worse. He should take full responsibility for his actions. He has left the Country divided to meet his own ends. These poor ignorant farm workers are paying the full price, while he is probably sat drinking G and T's in Dubai.

Hardly. I don't get it, why do so many people pass Issan folk as "poor, ignorant, farm workers", who are willing to blindly follow Thaksin like sheep? Many of them may not have education, but they are human, and do have intelligence and critical thinking skills.

Thaksin simply opened the door for them after centuries of oppression, and let them know what kind of life is possible if they reach out for it. It's just that the door he opened can never be shut. Given everything, I'm certain the red shirts would be doing exactly what they're doing now, with or without Thaksin around.

cdmatt what planet are you from? I live in Isaan and the head of the village is my wife's uncle. This is a big village consisting of more than 4,000 households. There are presently over 250 local pepole who have joined the rally for three weeks. The are each being paid 500 Baht a day and do not have a clue about democracy. They only follow orders from the red leaders. At least they are making money to send back to their families because now there is no work here until the rains come and rice planting starts. You are correct in saying they are human and they are salt of the earth people. But their critcal thinking skills are only in planting rice and trying to find where tomorrows income will come from. Sure there are people in Isaan who are educated and meet your explaination of "Issan folk" but these are not the ones participating in the demonstrations. The edcuated ones are carrying on with their business as always and would not think of joining these reds in Bangkok.

Very good and realistic post Pimay.

Cheers, Rick

[jdinasia]

You know the sad thing about this is that Thaksin is probably 'knocking on out' over all this. He does not give on iota about the people that are being injured or even worse. He should take full responsibility for his actions. He has left the Country divided to meet his own ends. These poor ignorant farm workers are paying the full price, while he is probably sat drinking G and T's in Dubai.

Hardly. I don't get it, why do so many people pass Issan folk as "poor, ignorant, farm workers", who are willing to blindly follow Thaksin like sheep? Many of them may not have education, but they are human, and do have intelligence and critical thinking skills.

Thaksin simply opened the door for them after centuries of oppression, and let them know what kind of life is possible if they reach out for it. It's just that the door he opened can never be shut. Given everything, I'm certain the red shirts would be doing exactly what they're doing now, with or without Thaksin around.

cdmatt what planet are you from? I live in Isaan and the head of the village is my wife's uncle. This is a big village consisting of more than 4,000 households. There are presently over 250 local pepole who have joined the rally for three weeks. The are each being paid 500 Baht a day and do not have a clue about democracy. They only follow orders from the red leaders. At least they are making money to send back to their families because now there is no work here until the rains come and rice planting starts. You are correct in saying they are human and they are salt of the earth people. But their critcal thinking skills are only in planting rice and trying to find where tomorrows income will come from. Sure there are people in Isaan who are educated and meet your explaination of "Issan folk" but these are not the ones participating in the demonstrations. The edcuated ones are carrying on with their business as always and would not think of joining these reds in Bangkok.

Where I am (in Chiang Mai) to get paid the people have to surrender their ID cards for the duration. sickening...

[MrWiggle]

Who's side is the red cross on ??

[Pakboong]

You guys keep mentioning that Jatuporn threatened to derail the skytrain. Where is the credible source for this statement? Nobody has yet posted a source to back up this statement. A video perhaps?

Jatuporn made the statement on stage live on UDD TV. Thousands of us saw it, as evidenced by lots of tweets as well. I somehow doubt the UDD video archives will be forthcoming in providing you with a copy.

BTS saw it as well. That's why the Skytrain system was promptly shut down.

We have just spoken to the monk who came to our house in Chiang Mai. I expressed my disgust that monks were part of the protest in Bangkok. He was absolutely adamant that these were not real monks - "Monks should not be involved in politics" he said.

Also my friend has just returned from BKK where the night before last he reported seeing thousands of drunk people and some walking around with machettes, truncheons and even a few with guns. I think the poor government is on a hiding to nothing against this mob of Thaksin's henchmen. I dread them returning to Chiang Mai

I suspect there are a few Vietnamese monks who which they had gotten the memo on that one.

[Insight]

You know the sad thing about this is that Thaksin is probably 'knocking on out' over all this. He does not give on iota about the people that are being injured or even worse. He should take full responsibility for his actions. He has left the Country divided to meet his own ends. These poor ignorant farm workers are paying the full price, while he is probably sat drinking G and T's in Dubai. Democracy is not and never was on his agenda. He just wants to return to give payback to his enemies and resume his role as dictator.

I understand that the people of the North need a better deal, but this is not the right way to go about it. Get rid of all ties with this dictator, form a political party and achieve your goals in the proper democratic way. This guy is not worth dying for.

Cheers, Rick

Agreed Rick and that's the point that many of us have been making for days.

Cheers, Hummy

Isn't that the thing though? As has been said before most 'anti-reds' on TV are not really anti-red, they're anti Thaksin, and again, very few are actually yellow. Of course no-one cares what we think but the return of our box-headed Chinese friend will be a disaster for this country. Thai reds- Drop this meglomaniac, withdraw from the direct action theatre and pursue political means to reach your goals. In friend Mark, you may just have someone who will listen to you and see the wisdom of change.

I think bangkokrick makes an excellent point and probably this is the key to the whole problem.

I support Abhisit, detest Thaksin, but have a sincere sympathy for the people of the north and northeast poorer regions who have been led to believe Thaksin is some kind of indispensable cult hero.

He is fast becoming irrelevant and sadly it is because a few hundred of Thaksin's diehard bullyboys are holding this crowd together that they must lose in the end.

As numerous posters have said before "IT'S ALL ABOUT THAKSIN"

Cast Thaksin adrift, get rid of the local Thaksin godfathers and there may be a chance for the real Red Shirt people to rise out of this mess with some future. to look forward to.

For anyone that still assumes this is about democracy and not Thaksin, they need to answer one question honestly:

If the court judgement ruled in favour of Thaksin and let him keep his billions, would any protests we've seen over the past month be happening?

[Scott]

The thread is NOT about US or UK politics.

[rogerdee123]

But the people in the North and North-East aren't given the equal job opportunities so that they can make the money to afford this kind of treatment.

That's what you'd call tough titties and is the way the cookie crumbles I'm afraid. Some folk will always be destined to till the fields while others will cream millions on the stocks. There will always be winners and losers. Life's not a charity unfortunately; one has to get off one's butt to earn the things they desire. While Isaan is the poor man of Thailand, there are also very poor people in other regions, including Bangkok... just that a few have been lucky enough to be given decent education/options outside the realm of the powers that be.

To be fair, Muang Thai has improved massively over the last few decades, but everyone can't be catered for at once... i.e, Somchai the farmer working the stock exchange for the sake of equality ain't gonna work now is it. Thailand is still a developing nation and it'll take generations of an improved education system for the masses to be brought up to speed.

When I first came to Thailand the biggest foreign exchange earner was tapioca (no joke) and most of the 'poor' farmers were subsistence farmers and many weren't even in the cash economy. :^p

[brahmburgers]

I live in Isaan and the head of the village is my wife's uncle. This is a big village consisting of more than 4,000 households. There are presently over 250 local people who have joined the rally for three weeks. The are each being paid 500 Baht a day and do not have a clue about democracy. They only follow orders from the red leaders. At least they are making money to send back to their families because now there is no work here until the rains come and rice planting starts. You are correct in saying they are human and they are salt of the earth people. But their critical thinking skills are only in planting rice and trying to find where tomorrows income will come from. Sure there are people in Isaan who are educated and meet your explanation of "Issan folk" but these are not the ones participating in the demonstrations. The educated ones are carrying on with their business as always and would not think of joining these reds in Bangkok.

I agree. It's still v. much a money game. Just before rice planting season, same as last year, lots of unemployed country folks have found a way to get between 200 to 2,000 baht per day (leaders get a whole lot more), AND, they get to go to Bangkok, laugh and listen to music with a bunch of the same sorts of people. And they get to be in the news, as if they're doing something important. By and large, they don't know democracy from theocracy, any more than they'd obey a four way stop intersection (that's why 4-ways don't exist in Thailand).

I'm not saying they're dumb. Heck, they sell their votes, and they take money for traveling to Bkk to have a fun time. I'd probably do the same if I were in their flip flops.

[bangkokrick]

The thread is NOT about US or UK politics.

Good post. There is no comparison.

Cheers, Rick

[jdinasia]

Who's side is the red cross on ??

ummmm nobody's side? They are benefitting a little from some of the students etc involved in the anti-dissolution side though! The students are donating (untainted) blood to make a stand for the government.

[4223rhodes]

But the people in the North and North-East aren't given the equal job opportunities so that they can make the money to afford this kind of treatment.

That's what you'd call tough titties and is the way the cookie crumbles I'm afraid. Some folk will always be destined to till the fields while others will cream millions on the stocks. There will always be winners and losers. Life's not a charity unfortunately; one has to get off one's butt to earn the things they desire. While Isaan is the poor man of Thailand, there are also very poor people in other regions, including Bangkok... just that a few have been lucky enough to be given decent education/options outside the realm of the powers that be.

To be fair, Muang Thai has improved massively over the last few decades, but everyone can't be catered for at once... i.e, Somchai the farmer working the stock exchange for the sake of equality ain't gonna work now is it. Thailand is still a developing nation and it'll take generations of an improved education system for the masses to be brought up to speed.

When I first came to Thailand the biggest foreign exchange earner was tapioca (no joke) and most of the 'poor' farmers were subsistence farmers and many weren't even in the cash economy. :^p

So many of my PAD friends look fondly back to those times and think that we can get back there if we all pull together. If those tapioca farmers just knew their place none of this would be happening.

[Old Man River]

I cannot figure out the Army's strategy. They group, shoot teargas and push the Reds back who then circle around and go back to where they were. Nobody is being arrested or held. This is pointless.

Perhaps Anupong thought the Reds would get scared and go home, but this hasn't worked. Now, either ramp it up a notch and do what it takes to pull the leaders off the street or go back to the barracks. This middle of the road stuff isn't accomplishing anything.

[kissdani]

form a political party and achieve your goals in the proper democratic way.

Impossible in the current Thai system unfortunately.

Could that be the reason that Abhisit is determined to stay in power, reform? Then I ask who else is going to lead Thailand in to the future? Jutuporn?

Abhisit is dated. The dissolution of the Democrats because of the donation scandal will happen.

But probably not the national unity government or whatever the group of 4 ex-PM of the the last century had in mind. Now ot is more likely that the army once more knows what is the best for the people. Unwise move in my opinion.

The new man with a future is the great Korn Chatikavanij. Almost every Thai will look up to this outstanding leader (6'4 ft).

I am still hoping for national unity and New Politics, which would be people politics, a collective of experts, diligent and wise men, civic activist and academics leading the country as a unit and not the poster boy, politic star, gifted speaker or astute salesman kind of politician.

[yoshiwara]

I cannot figure out the Army's strategy. They group, shoot teargas and push the Reds back who then circle around and go back to where they were. Nobody is being arrested or held. This is pointless.

Perhaps Anupong thought the Reds would get scared and go home, but this hasn't worked. Now, either ramp it up a notch and do what it takes to pull the leaders off the street or go back to the barracks. This middle of the road stuff isn't accomplishing anything.

It is cat and mouse.

Be patient.

[bangkokrick]

I cannot figure out the Army's strategy. They group, shoot teargas and push the Reds back who then circle around and go back to where they were. Nobody is being arrested or held. This is pointless.

Perhaps Anupong thought the Reds would get scared and go home, but this hasn't worked. Now, either ramp it up a notch and do what it takes to pull the leaders off the street or go back to the barracks. This middle of the road stuff isn't accomplishing anything.

Just seen on NBT that the Police Army are securing the areas with razor wire, re enforcements etc to make sure that the Reds don't return.

They will and tomorrow it will all begin again. It will become a battle of wills, but just ask yourself how far would you go for 500 Baht a day. The reds will tire of this eventually.

The longer they stay the more force the Police and army will have to use. That is a problem.

Cheers, Rick

[humfurry]

If the government does fall, mob rule will have won the day.

I can't help thinking that will keep Thailand shackled in the early 20th century.

Most democracies start this way

My argument to your comment is that the process of a democracy in Thailand started years ago. It's always a struggle and it takes time, a long time. The US (actually a constitutional republic) has been at it for hundreds of years. Slaves were legally freed by Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation but it was almost a hundred years later that the real social emancipation for blacks began. France is still dealing with the issues of the discrimination of immigrants and they'd be considered the worlds 2nd oldest democracy. Witness the riots there in the past few years. Democracies seem to be a work in progress. Don't expect it to happen in a few weeks.

Cheers, Hummy

Edited April 10, 2010 by humfurry

[hammered]

I cannot figure out the Army's strategy. They group, shoot teargas and push the Reds back who then circle around and go back to where they were. Nobody is being arrested or held. This is pointless.

Perhaps Anupong thought the Reds would get scared and go home, but this hasn't worked. Now, either ramp it up a notch and do what it takes to pull the leaders off the street or go back to the barracks. This middle of the road stuff isn't accomplishing anything.

It is cat and mouse.

Be patient.

Actually the military probably arent trained for the role they are asked to carry out and having a few of them shot probably doesnt help, so dont hold out too much....

Red win soon it looks like