I skip or skim past when people go in detail about their sex lives. Im with Boo on this one, other peoples detailed sex life is boring. Sex itself isnt boring, but peoples details are. I dont really understand why people do post in detail about it. If anything you would think those who dont feel the need to broadcast their sex lives, are the ones who enjoy sex as part of their regular life..its normal..it doesnt need to be discussed on a forum...so they dont find it to be something to brag or boast about. I dont need to brag about my sex life..but of course thats obviously because its smoking hot.

It was all my mothers fault. She was a straight laced woman who was proper above anything else. But I was a kid and knew where she kept her secret stash of Gothic novels including those Mandingo ones with the surly black plantation slave kidnapping the planters daughter.

I also knew where my dad kept his playboys and gramps kept his police gazette. They were all a bunch of hyprocrites.

It would be analogous to sneaking into the ladies forum and finding posts of half naked male belly dancers or sexually explicit threads looking for houses of prostitution catering to women in Chiang Mai.

I used to skip and skim too. I had to read a lot of nonsense in moms novels to get to the good parts.

Boo said she han never moderated any of my posts or Ian's because of explicit sexual content. I think that is because neither Ian or myself. in my memory, post any explicit details of our sex lives. I don't think the question ever has been about sexually explicit statements of any kind.

I didn't post in this thread to prove a point or win any arguments or brag about my sex life. My only reason was to try and create a little sensitivity among the five people on Thai visa that have any animosity towards posts of a sexual nature.

Perhaps as a more topical answer to the OP in a direct way, I think that sexual topics are natural subjects of animosity- for English speakers, because of our collective Christian cultural hangover, in which sex is heavily positioned religiously and now culturally as a special forum for the exhibition of 'morality' (not to mention 'criminality'), and for human beings in general because of our apparent social need to have some form of sexual taboos in each and every society (usually an indicator of some genetic influence on behaviour, like the prohibition against incest).

Since these taboos and, for people in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition, 'morals', are highly emotionalised and often not entirely rational, and not the same across societies or even within societies, they naturally attract controversy.

You can't rationalise people (you only have to look at the politics threads here to see that). So the best solution is simply to leave sexuality in the 'taboo' drawer as far as everyday conversation goes. Unfortunately, the problems of STDs have made this a less viable option in recent times. A new equilibrium between taboo, etiquette, and the need to face realities without hypocrisy has yet to be established even in the frankest of societies.

So that's my take on the GENERAL question. Unfortunately, the discussion seems to have devolved into a question of this forum specifically, and is venturing perilously close to a discussion of moderation (which I would greatly discourage, even here in Bedlam). Suffice it to say we are in a neoVictorian society which is based on sexual hypocrisy, and since we are the outsiders we have to play by their rules. That limits a lot of what is publicly allowed on this particular forum, and protects the rest of the speech from being shut down. Those who disagree can take their concerns to [email protected], or else post on forums where others are bearing the risks of their more liberal approaches.

But I *think* what the ladies might be trying to tell you, Ian, probably has nothing specifically to do with the forum, and it is that if you are indeed referring to your offline life- to which you frequently refer here, and complain about those who seem uncomfortable or otherwise negative about your accounts of your social activities- it may be that those who are reacting in that manner feel the same way that they do from your expositions here. In other words, they are not trying to censor you, they are trying to answer your question. If I am not being too blunt, I would have to say in addition based on my limited online observations of you that even as a gay man I can see from your photos that the company you keep appears to be of a certain recognisable social genre, and while- as you say- that does not PROVE anything about what is going on with you and your agreeable companions, the pairing is a common enough social cliche on the tourist scene here that it really comes down to 'walks like a duck, talks like a duck....' again, if that is not too blunt. I am not judging you 'lest I be judged', or even saying there is anything 'dodgy' going on, but you should be enough of a 'man of the world' to know expressions like 'where there's smoke there's fire' and 'the lady doth protest too much'. Expecting such visual cliches, 'pictures worth a thousand words', not to be greeted with a certain amount of 'world-weariness' is really quite naive and could seem as though you think your audience to have been 'born yesterday'. If you don't know what I'm talking about, perhaps you spend too much time around society of the same genre to know how much it 'sticks out' when you are away from that genre in Thailand as some of us are practically all the time.

So what is the solution? Well, you can't really 'go tilting at windmills' and it's recommended not to 'swim against the current' or 'paddle upstream', so I think maybe in this case it is better for you to be more discrete and enjoy yourself as you will, rather than to ask unrealistically for people who 'don't know you from Adam' to believe you are the 'exception to the rule' and then express surprise that 'bears **** in the woods' after all.

I hope my message doesn't 'fall on deaf ears' and that my metaphoric cliches, though 'a dime a dozen', 'speak for themselves' (even if the 'walls have ears') and for the power of cliche itself.

Very good post, Ijustwannateach, I agree with you. Like I said, I've got a thick skin. The ONLY reason why I set myself up as a target is to possibly open SOME people's eyes that there MIGHT be another valid view point. I'm too old to care what strangers think of me. My personal friends know and like me and that's all that counts. As you well know, 30 years ago there was a VERY bigoted viewpoint about gays. Through open discussion and various well known personalities coming out of the closet, SOME of the bigots have slowly changed their minds. There is much more tolerance to gays today in Canada, but it wasn't always that way.

That is one of the main reasons why I love Thailand. Yes, there are still racial problems and political problems, but there is far more tolerance in many fields. Gays intermingle with heteros on a daily basis with no sign of tension. People in bars mix with everyone of all ages and everyone seems to be having a good time. There is the common joking and teasing about each other's sexuality and nobody gives any mind.

I know if I could transfer the open, friendly atmoshere of a Thai bar into Canada I would be a millionare in a few months. But, that could and would never happen because of the repressive Christian system of what is right and what is wrong. I sometimes go to a Canadian bar with friends, but unless there is a group watching some sports playoff on the big TV, the place is as dead as a morgue. In the few bars I frequent in Chiang Mai it's like the best party you ever went to and everyone is mixing with each other. I can walk up to farang strangers and sit down without being invited and I'm always welcomed. It's like everyone is turned on with the friendly bug.

If the mods here want me to leave thaivisa, then just say so, and I'll leave.

A flounce and a half

I can agree with you entirely about the atmosphere of Thai merrymaking, Ian, and I know exactly what you mean in saying it's not transferable. In fact, quite frequently the foreigners themselves are not really able to deal with it when they come here- I frequent a few all-Thai clubs and it is the rare other foreigner I see there who lasts more than one or two early hours, or ever comes back- not because the Thais are unwilling to be friendly (though they ARE initially shy) but because the foreigners are too unable to connect in ways the Thais understand- they're looking for what they find on the tourist scene, and that's not what those clubs are like.

Had great fun a few nights ago when a young man brought his mother and aunt (as well as a number of his friends) to a dance club to celebrate his birthday, and wound up dancing with Mom and others and being introduced to the guys in the group because I wasn't stand-offish. Didn't lead to anything else, and wouldn't have gone as well as it did if I were trying (I was flirting more with guys on the other side of me, anyway) but it added to the fun and it certainly seemed like Mom was having a blast. I can't even imagine a young trendy British or American gay man setting that up in one of the hip places in NY or London.

It is certainly true that 'fun' can be less age-segregated here; ideally to the benefit of all. Ironically, it is probably the gay community in English-speaking countries that is the *most* age-fascist, commercialised, and discriminatory, to the point where it seems like middle-aged and older gay men are more or less 'invisible' on many scenes. This kind of separation is like a denial of the realities of life, like a social version of Logan's Run (dead at 30)- I think it's better to keep everyone together and keep it real; plus I *like* to hang out with guys both younger and older than I am.

Is this a topic talking about people talking about people talking about sex?

One too many 'talking abouts' Scea, but you're on the money...

If Scea is on the money, should we ask him to show it to us?

Hmm..and if its more than a million maybe he should make an indecent proposal.

Great!... now we know what sort of a girl you are we can start talking price!

Now we get down to the nitty gritty. Everyone with few exceptions would love to read about the sex life of certain people explicit or not explicit. It is after all a matter of taste.

In college I dated a ballerina from the Bolshoi and a stripper from a club in downtown Detroit. My mother liked the ballerina better. They both shaved their thighs which at the time I found quite unusual.

Great!... now we know what sort of a girl you are we can start talking price!

Wasn't that the old Winston Churchill line... "We've already established what you are madam; we are just haggling over the price."

now now..i didnt say the indecent proposal was for me, did i.

now now..i didnt say the indecent proposal was for me, did i.

Dunno, but mite be yer fantasy....... hehe

Glad we're having fun again. It was getting a bit serious there for a while. Not that mind serious discussions.

OOOH wanna hear about my sexy sex life?

Boring.

Well it all started in Geneva and then it moved on to france and then yummy

OOOH wanna hear about my sexy sex life?

Boring.

Well it all started in Geneva and then it moved on to france and then yummy

Things that happen in France... stay in France.

What happened in France moved on!!

OO OO

Yummy!!

I just want to put that person in their head.

If i di - have a great hoiday in Canada, Ian

Make love, not war?