Red-Shirts Blockade Thai Military Train

[webfact]

UPDATE

REDS RALLIES

Khon Kaen reds block 300 troops from going South

By The Nation

KHON KAEN: Thousands of red-shirted protesters in the northeastern province of Khon Kaen yesterday blocked nearly 300 soldiers from travelling south, as they feared the troops were reinforcements for an imminent crackdown on the protest in Bangkok.

The red-shirted group mobilised by community radio stations gathered at the railway station in the afternoon to stop a train with 80 troops and 21 military vehicles aboard.

The red shirts did not believe an explanation from the military that they were on a mission to the southernmost province of Pattani.

The believed the troops were heading for the capital to disperse fellow protesters there.

The red movement has been confronting a build-up of security forces in the Ratchaprasong area for days, suspecting an operation to dislodge them from the business district.

Sabina Sar, a red-shirted leader, said the protesters would detain the soldiers in Khon Kaen for at least five days on instructions from leaders of the red group in Bangkok.

Deputy Governor Payat Charnprasert failed in three rounds of negotiations with the red group to free the troops.

"It's too bad that the protesters don't care about national security since the men were on their way to their assignment in the deep South," he said.

Some 3,000 protesters later set up shelters at the railway station to block troops from passing through.

At about 4.30pm, another group of more than 1,000 protesters stopped three military buses with some 200 troops in Ban Pai district.

The buses carried troops and equipment from an Udon Thani military camp bound for the restive South.

Colonel Omsin Trarungruang, commander of Ban Pai district police, failed to talk the protesters into releasing the military officials, as they were not convinced the troops were being transported to the southern border provinces.

-- The Nation 2010-04-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[webfact]

Khon Kaen reds block military train for a second day

Negotiations for a second day have failed to reach an agreement for Khon Kaen red shirts to release the train transporting military vehicles and supplies to Pattani, officials said on Thursday.

On Wednesday, the local red shirts blocked the train from leaving Khon Kaen on suspicion that the soldiers and military supplies might be diverted to crackdown on fellow protesters in Bangkok instead of fighting insurgency in the Deep South.

Three rounds of talks yielded no progress and the number of red shirts surged last night.

Provincial Police Region 4, assigned by Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban to resolve the situation, has requested for the reinforcement of riot forces following its assessment for protests to persist.

-- The Nation 2010-04-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[TonyH]

Just another case of "PATHETIC". Thailand should forget having an armed force, it seems to be a total waste of tax payers money.

[rabo]

Any foreigner who has some romantic notion of the reds being a simple folk who just want equality ought to get down into their camp and see for themselves what is happeneing and try to talk to some reds. I say

[clip]

being "prai" whereas I do not trust the redshirts to let honest, hardworking people go about a peaceful life and to try and improve society in a constructive way.

Interestingly enough I have watched with curiosity as my staff has gone from Dyed in the wool REDS to party goers for the parades to mildly annoyed as traffic got worse and the rhetoric got worse... they are to a person now sick to death of the REDS and can't believe how stupid so many of their family members are. We have one employee that actually went to the old site and physically collected an Aunt and Uncle and put them on a bus home and told them to stay away from BKK.

[clip]

I've tried the same and received similar impressions. The rank and file have a glazed-over, zombie-like look, and after dark most of the men I encounter in the 'Red zone' are drunk. Hardly inspires confidence in either their cause or the ability of the rank and file to think for themselves.

I have read similar accounts of crowd behavior in pre WWII Germany during some of Hitler's speeches, particularly the glazed over eyes and possessed (zombie) look. Hitler took advantage of post WW-I poverty in Germany and German ignorance about the reasons behind WW-I. Thaksin is taking advantage of the rural/urban financial divide that has worsened over the last 20 years. However, Thailand and Germany are not the same and other parallels may not hold true. Traditional Thailand is not a culture of anger and hatred.

Speaking of training here is a picture from early February of a brain washing (er, political education) school in the north. (Funding courtesy Thaksin and co.)

Here is a reference to the full article, complete with black guard training and our friend Seh Daeng. It's a good read

http://blogs.straitstimes.com/2010/2/11/in...ferent-thailand

[TonyH]

UPDATE

REDS RALLIES

Khon Kaen reds block 300 troops from going South

By The Nation

KHON KAEN: Thousands of red-shirted protesters in the northeastern province of Khon Kaen yesterday blocked nearly 300 soldiers from travelling south, as they feared the troops were reinforcements for an imminent crackdown on the protest in Bangkok.

The red-shirted group mobilised by community radio stations gathered at the railway station in the afternoon to stop a train with 80 troops and 21 military vehicles aboard.

The red shirts did not believe an explanation from the military that they were on a mission to the southernmost province of Pattani.

The believed the troops were heading for the capital to disperse fellow protesters there.

The red movement has been confronting a build-up of security forces in the Ratchaprasong area for days, suspecting an operation to dislodge them from the business district.

Sabina Sar, a red-shirted leader, said the protesters would detain the soldiers in Khon Kaen for at least five days on instructions from leaders of the red group in Bangkok.

Deputy Governor Payat Charnprasert failed in three rounds of negotiations with the red group to free the troops.

"It's too bad that the protesters don't care about national security since the men were on their way to their assignment in the deep South," he said.

Some 3,000 protesters later set up shelters at the railway station to block troops from passing through.

At about 4.30pm, another group of more than 1,000 protesters stopped three military buses with some 200 troops in Ban Pai district.

The buses carried troops and equipment from an Udon Thani military camp bound for the restive South.

Colonel Omsin Trarungruang, commander of Ban Pai district police, failed to talk the protesters into releasing the military officials, as they were not convinced the troops were being transported to the southern border provinces.

-- The Nation 2010-04-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Even if the troops were heading to the capital, that is no concern to the public. Do the officers understand their roll and authority in society? or do they just go around saying "Cortoad Pee" to everyone?

In other countries the officers would shout to the red shirts "MOVE" if they dint then shots would be fired without hesitation. That's what we call Command & Authority.

[basjke]

Not understandable to me how a bunch of reds can keep blocking a train.

tsjoek tsjoek tsjoek.................help a train is riding over me.Problem solved.

[old wanderer]

If this incident does not make a total fool of the military, nothing will. I can envision no other country on earth, where hundreds of military can be told "you cannot got anywhere, you have to stay here"

300 military vs 1000 protesters, not even a contest. And if I was the general in charge, and my local commander did not act, I would dispatch 10,000 troops to make sure this ended IMMEDIATELY!!

[otherstuff1957]

The Reds' have consistently been using a strategy of taking advantage of the Army/Police's unwillingness to shed blood. If the protesters (or, at this point, revolutionaries might be a more accurate description) won't back down for anything less than lethal force and the government forces are unwilling to use lethal force, the Reds will win every time.

On the other hand, if the government forces use lethal force, the Reds will win the PR war. As long as the Reds can keep pushing the government forces without giving in to the temptation of using lethal force themselves, they cannot be beaten by the government. Of course, the Reds probably did use lethal force on the 10th, but until or unless that can be proven to everyone, they are still ahead in the PR war.

The situation could change from day to day and even from hour to hour, but I don't see how the current standoff can end peacefully.

BTW, I'm going to make a prediction now: If the redshirts somehow get the PT into power their demands for an election will suddenly get forgotten. Once the Reds have their people in charge, all of this talk about democracy will abruptly end.

[traderjm]

BTW, I'm going to make a prediction now: If the redshirts somehow get the PT into power their demands for an election will suddenly get forgotten. Once the Reds have their people in charge, all of this talk about democracy will abruptly end.

You aren't suggesting that the REDS are being less than honest about their REAL underlying goal are you? Heavens.. I for one am shocked...

[grandpops]

If this incident does not make a total fool of the military, nothing will. I can envision no other country on earth, where hundreds of military can be told "you cannot got anywhere, you have to stay here"

300 military vs 1000 protesters, not even a contest. And if I was the general in charge, and my local commander did not act, I would dispatch 10,000 troops to make sure this ended IMMEDIATELY!!

you are seriously saying that 300 armed soldiers are no match for 1000 protesters?

They are if they want to fight them...... but as you are seeing more and more, the army is red and the Navy only have 20k or so members so would be outnumbered an outarmed by the police for starters. Unless the governments opponants all moved from the north to the coastal areas, the Navy is not going to be able to do much.

From where? how will they get into such hostile territory? Will the locals let them in? the locals are now armed and most of the Army when they were that far north are in serious risk of swapping sides. Do you send 10,000 soldeirs to every kilometer of railway line, petrol dump, Bangok bank branch, ASTV going to need guarding soon by the look of it, AND still have troops to cover Bangkok and protect the government who are hiding in their barracks?

War games are ok on the playstation, but in real life this does not happen. Please look for an interactive wargaming site if you want to persue these arguments.

[grandpops]

Not understandable to me how a bunch of reds can keep blocking a train.

tsjoek tsjoek tsjoek.................help a train is riding over me.Problem solved.

Well for an experiment, next time you see a felled tree in the road or one of those massive contrete pylone, why not try and ride over it! Then imagine, instead of a road (rail) there is a hole (the rails are missing).

It's very basic stuff but you miss so much when you put on your clever comments. If there was more happening today I would just have smiled and tut tutted.

Well, thats your 15 minutes of fame. I have responded to you. AND I was right..... unless you have a magic bike

[basjke]

Not understandable to me how a bunch of reds can keep blocking a train.

tsjoek tsjoek tsjoek.................help a train is riding over me.Problem solved.

Well for an experiment, next time you see a felled tree in the road or one of those massive contrete pylone, why not try and ride over it! Then imagine, instead of a road (rail) there is a hole (the rails are missing).

It's very basic stuff but you miss so much when you put on your clever comments. If there was more happening today I would just have smiled and tut tutted.

Well, thats your 15 minutes of fame. I have responded to you. AND I was right..... unless you have a magic bike

You aren't insinuating that I should feel honoured that the great grandpops has replied to my post do you?

Could you point me to an official source in this thread that says there ar rails removed or concrete pylon placed over the rails?Oh you just make that up in your imagination to have something to spew on the forum.

[hoilai]

Oh Lordy! Has the train driver fled the scene?

someone reported all trains in thailand are converging in bangkok as 90% of the drivers are red...a new blockade of military movement is anitcipated...

[kissdani]

If this incident does not make a total fool of the military, nothing will. I can envision no other country on earth, where hundreds of military can be told "you cannot got anywhere, you have to stay here"

300 military vs 1000 protesters, not even a contest. And if I was the general in charge, and my local commander did not act, I would dispatch 10,000 troops to make sure this ended IMMEDIATELY!!

Believe me, there are a couple of countries on this earth where the army not start to fight against the own people and would actually look somewhat helpless in a similar situation until the police clear the things up.

And you are not a general in charge and you never will/would had make it into such position. Guess why?

[grandpops]

So back to the real post.

The CRES (note, not the army who are supposed to be in charge) have sent four companies of police and army to rescue this train.

10 more train nappings and the CRES is at full stretch!!! or is that overstretched.

This is the means of maintaining power this time.... the CRES are trying to run the show, undermine Anupong and Abhisit... well. Nice haircut is about all he is bringing to this process.

That great ex PAD member is now in charge of CRES. Wonder if he ever read about Mussolinni! He better leave a lot of forces around his base for the rest of his life now.

Sorry BASIJKE, there is a full report on it, the log and the pylone on Bangkoks remaining plausible news outlet. Sorry you don't like to leave the safe confines of ASTV and the Nation.

Edited April 22, 2010 by grandpops

[hoilai]

Just another case of "PATHETIC". Thailand should forget having an armed force, it seems to be a total waste of tax payers money.

tax payers monies are not wasted too much, really , especially when their monthly pay is pittance or eqivalent to one night of what a farang spend in one of the go-go-bars. would you rather they all be gigolos????

if your is yes to turn them to gigolos, imagine your thai wife/partner looking for the soldiers whose testerones are bursting to the seams......

[hoilai]

If this incident does not make a total fool of the military, nothing will. I can envision no other country on earth, where hundreds of military can be told "you cannot got anywhere, you have to stay here"

300 military vs 1000 protesters, not even a contest. And if I was the general in charge, and my local commander did not act, I would dispatch 10,000 troops to make sure this ended IMMEDIATELY!!

10,000 troops????

all you need is a 6inch tongue to roll them all over, and the military will be subdued absolutely......

do not forget that one night in bangkok can make a huge man tumble.... like humpty dumpty.

someone has forgotten the go betweens in war....i.e. the go-go-girls of the reds in the bangkok yellow shirt dominated bars and kara-ok's...

[jcbangkok]

I believe peace should always be the first option but in a case where insurgents have seized a train full of weapons ... there needs to be no warning given and F16, tanks and Black Hawks should have immediatly been dispatched and to take out the insurgents and if needed all the military equipment (train) to prevent these guerrillas.

Do not be fooled, this was an act of war. An immediate and forceful response is the only way to respond. By not doing this, then you encourage more actions like this from others. Until Thailand shows it is unacceptable to attack authority (police / military) there will be no respect for the law and civilians who want to take arms for bad intentions will simply do this again or do like the Reds have done in BKK.

[BIGTOE3]

So back to the real post.

The CRES (note, not the army who are supposed to be in charge) have sent four companies of police and army to rescue this train.

10 more train nappings and the CRES is at full stretch!!! or is that overstretched.

This is the means of maintaining power this time.... the CRES are trying to run the show, undermine Anupong and Abhisit... well. Nice haircut is about all he is bringing to this process.

That great ex PAD member is now in charge of CRES. Wonder if he ever read about Mussolinni! He better leave a lot of forces around his base for the rest of his life now.

Sorry BASIJKE, there is a full report on it, the log and the pylone on Bangkoks remaining plausible news outlet. Sorry you don't like to leave the safe confines of ASTV and the Nation.

Again more UTTER NONSENSE.

[grandpops]

I believe peace should always be the first option but in a case where insurgents have seized a train full of weapons ... there needs to be no warning given and F16, tanks and Black Hawks should have immediatly been dispatched and to take out the insurgents and if needed all the military equipment (train) to prevent these guerrillas.

Do not be fooled, this was an act of war. An immediate and forceful response is the only way to respond. By not doing this, then you encourage more actions like this from others. Until Thailand shows it is unacceptable to attack authority (police / military) there will be no respect for the law and civilians who want to take arms for bad intentions will simply do this again or do like the Reds have done in BKK.

The comedy section can be accessed via the main panal. Nice of you to try and being some light relief to the debate, but you could have stopped short of absolute hillarity.

The Airforce are more likely to attack the army.... which shows how much of Thai history you know.

[grandpops]

I believe peace should always be the first option but in a case where insurgents have seized a train full of weapons ... there needs to be no warning given and F16, tanks and Black Hawks should have immediatly been dispatched and to take out the insurgents and if needed all the military equipment (train) to prevent these guerrillas.

Do not be fooled, this was an act of war. An immediate and forceful response is the only way to respond. By not doing this, then you encourage more actions like this from others. Until Thailand shows it is unacceptable to attack authority (police / military) there will be no respect for the law and civilians who want to take arms for bad intentions will simply do this again or do like the Reds have done in BKK.

The comedy section can be accessed via the main panal. Nice of you to try and being some light relief to the debate, but you could have stopped short of absolute hillarity.

The Airforce are more likely to attack the army.... which shows how much of Thai history you know.

[danc]

The Reds' have consistently been using a strategy of taking advantage of the Army/Police's unwillingness to shed blood. If the protesters (or, at this point, revolutionaries might be a more accurate description) won't back down for anything less than lethal force and the government forces are unwilling to use lethal force, the Reds will win every time.

On the other hand, if the government forces use lethal force, the Reds will win the PR war. As long as the Reds can keep pushing the government forces without giving in to the temptation of using lethal force themselves, they cannot be beaten by the government. Of course, the Reds probably did use lethal force on the 10th, but until or unless that can be proven to everyone, they are still ahead in the PR war.

The situation could change from day to day and even from hour to hour, but I don't see how the current standoff can end peacefully.

BTW, I'm going to make a prediction now: If the redshirts somehow get the PT into power their demands for an election will suddenly get forgotten. Once the Reds have their people in charge, all of this talk about democracy will abruptly end.

A good post - this is the government's problem - the wires are trailing that maybe there is some compromise on the red's side - a three month timeframe...so if they (the army/government) move into today or tomorrow, then it will appear that this feeler was deliberately ignored.....it is a question of international versus national perceptions and that becomes tricky when you have a much more European educated chap as PM - he may be slightly at sea in how real Thai politik works but he is very aware and cares how it plays out on the world stage. One might argue that many Thais could not give a stuff what the world thinks, but I think you will find that Abhisit does. The government has consistently painted the Reds, rightly or wrongly as terrorist or at least as having terrorists amongst them, but whilst this might or might not work on the national stage, it so far has had little pick-up on the international one. To state the obvious, a slew of deaths will not sit very well either and that is probably what one will get, not least because that its what would help the Reds cause most...indeed a slew of their deaths might turn sentiment back their way on the national stage - som nam na appearing a little shaky. Lordy, lordy it is complicated and fascinating and gruesome and scary all at the same time .

[jcbangkok]

I believe peace should always be the first option but in a case where insurgents have seized a train full of weapons ... there needs to be no warning given and F16, tanks and Black Hawks should have immediatly been dispatched and to take out the insurgents and if needed all the military equipment (train) to prevent these guerrillas.

Do not be fooled, this was an act of war. An immediate and forceful response is the only way to respond. By not doing this, then you encourage more actions like this from others. Until Thailand shows it is unacceptable to attack authority (police / military) there will be no respect for the law and civilians who want to take arms for bad intentions will simply do this again or do like the Reds have done in BKK.

The comedy section can be accessed via the main panal. Nice of you to try and being some light relief to the debate, but you could have stopped short of absolute hillarity.

The Airforce are more likely to attack the army.... which shows how much of Thai history you know.

Since the army has both tanks and Blackhawks there would be no need for the Airforce unless you wanted to take out the train itself with F16 strikes to prevent the insurgents from gaining more weapons through seizing military transports.

[grandpops]

So back to the real post.

The CRES (note, not the army who are supposed to be in charge) have sent four companies of police and army to rescue this train.

10 more train nappings and the CRES is at full stretch!!! or is that overstretched.

This is the means of maintaining power this time.... the CRES are trying to run the show, undermine Anupong and Abhisit... well. Nice haircut is about all he is bringing to this process.

That great ex PAD member is now in charge of CRES. Wonder if he ever read about Mussolinni! He better leave a lot of forces around his base for the rest of his life now.

Sorry BASIJKE, there is a full report on it, the log and the pylone on Bangkoks remaining plausible news outlet. Sorry you don't like to leave the safe confines of ASTV and the Nation.

Again more UTTER NONSENSE.

My claims re the train and CRES are on the news, in the papers and on the internet. Back your claims up then. You have to take your news from a variety of outlets to get a broader view.

Then you will be able to post rather than just sneer and flame. It's a big step but you can do it.

Try Wiki for some background, try google for some background. Human Rights watch report saying PAD have Fascist tendencies.

Get out of this forum more mate and learn something. You don't know who you are blindly backing. It is not a football match to cheer on and shout about.... but hey, live in ignorance if you like, but don't blame me when your posts are easily picked apart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suthep_Thaugsuban Why not start here. I picked the highlights out for you. Disqualified MP, distributing land in Phuket. What a contrast to Thaksin!!! Now you are at a stage where you can start to think about thaksin not being the beginning and end of corruption. I know this land and if you knew who owned it you really would be on to something. Why not find out? It's easy, and most in Phuket know this.

1995 Corruption Scandal

The Democrat Party won elections in 13 September 1992, shortly after Black May, and formed a government. Suthep became Agriculture Minister. As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Unrepentant, Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in their hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation.^[1] The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate. In subsequent elections, the Chart Thai party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.^[2]

This guy arranged a mob to come to Bangkok and forced HIS OWN government out of office.!

2009 Disqualification as MP

In 2009, Suthep was accused of violating the Constitution of Thailand by holding equity in a media firm that had received concessions from the government. Under the 1997 Constitution of Thailand, which Suthep had supported, Members of Parliament are banned from holding stakes in companies which have received government concessions. In July 2009, the Election Commission announced that it would seek a ruling by the Constitutional Court to disqualify Suthep and 12 other Democrat MPs for having allegedly violated the charter. Suthep held a press conference a day later, announcing his decision to resign from Parliament. Suthep's resignation as an MP did not affect his status as Deputy Prime Minister and as a Cabinet member. If his case had been submitted to the Constitution Court, he would have been suspended from duty as Deputy Prime Minister. He insisted that his resignation was not a proof that he had done something wrong but that he was worried about status as Deputy Prime Minister.^[3]

Edited April 22, 2010 by grandpops

[scorecard]

BTW, I'm going to make a prediction now: If the redshirts somehow get the PT into power their demands for an election will suddenly get forgotten. Once the Reds have their people in charge, all of this talk about democracy will abruptly end.

You aren't suggesting that the REDS are being less than honest about their REAL underlying goal are you? Heavens.. I for one am shocked...

"Once the Reds have their people in charge, all of this talk about democracy will abruptly end."

Totally agree with this statement. In fact:

- The reds have no manifesto.

- They have never talked about any structured approach to anything.

- None of their murky leaders has ever given a speech, a presentation, taken part in a moderated debate, handed out non-biased literature describing democracy, the benefits, the process, the pillars, the need to at all costs protect the pillars. NOTHING!

And all this leads to another point. If there was/is an election and the PT wins, then you can have a guarantee that: arisman, veera, jatuporn, weng, and more will take up the ministerial position.

Totally frightening!

Edited April 22, 2010 by scorecard

[jcbangkok]

The Reds' have consistently been using a strategy of taking advantage of the Army/Police's unwillingness to shed blood. If the protesters (or, at this point, revolutionaries might be a more accurate description) won't back down for anything less than lethal force and the government forces are unwilling to use lethal force, the Reds will win every time.

On the other hand, if the government forces use lethal force, the Reds will win the PR war. As long as the Reds can keep pushing the government forces without giving in to the temptation of using lethal force themselves, they cannot be beaten by the government. Of course, the Reds probably did use lethal force on the 10th, but until or unless that can be proven to everyone, they are still ahead in the PR war.

The situation could change from day to day and even from hour to hour, but I don't see how the current standoff can end peacefully.

BTW, I'm going to make a prediction now: If the redshirts somehow get the PT into power their demands for an election will suddenly get forgotten. Once the Reds have their people in charge, all of this talk about democracy will abruptly end.

A good post - this is the government's problem - the wires are trailing that maybe there is some compromise on the red's side - a three month timeframe...so if they (the army/government) move into today or tomorrow, then it will appear that this feeler was deliberately ignored.....it is a question of international versus national perceptions and that becomes tricky when you have a much more European educated chap as PM - he may be slightly at sea in how real Thai politik works but he is very aware and cares how it plays out on the world stage. One might argue that many Thais could not give a stuff what the world thinks, but I think you will find that Abhisit does. The government has consistently painted the Reds, rightly or wrongly as terrorist or at least as having terrorists amongst them, but whilst this might or might not work on the national stage, it so far has had little pick-up on the international one. To state the obvious, a slew of deaths will not sit very well either and that is probably what one will get, not least because that its what would help the Reds cause most...indeed a slew of their deaths might turn sentiment back their way on the national stage - som nam na appearing a little shaky. Lordy, lordy it is complicated and fascinating and gruesome and scary all at the same time .

It is not just the world that is seeing the actions (and lack) of the government as a joke but a very SIGNIFICANT number of typical & working class Thai folks. So many very nice and rational Thais that I thought were pacifists and all situations are making comments the government should just go in and kill them all in BKK. There is a completely different attitude among the folks here in BKK that is easily seen on their faces. They are tired of the Reds violence, embarrassment and holding the city and country hostage because they cannot wait a few months to vote. You can hate the current PM but you are not telling the truth if you want to say his policies have hurt the Reds or the poor of this country because the opposite is true and this is verifiable from everything from free healthcare, education and money handouts to the poor to stimulate the economy.

The point is he is not some insane tyrant and there is no need for the Reds to continue to do all in their power to flaunt their lawlessness and provoke the government to take steps to keep the streets safe. It is VERY VERY clear this is all about one man ... Thaksin.

[tomyummer]

If this action isn't a form of domestic terrorism, what is?! If for any inkling of a thought that this was in fact for the south, what a pity. It sounds like Pattani could use the extra help about now. The reds definitely have more blood on its hands now. No more time for talking, we need some action now. What a mess!

[losworld]

I've said all along the Army General should be replaced. Secondly form two lines of soldiers/police. One line with rubber bullets and tear gas. If this line is broken or fire is returned then it may be time for real bullets.

I mentioned earlier that the events in Thailand are fairly unique and this type of behavior would not be tolerated for an instance in the West. Surprisingly some members stated that the West would tolerate mass protests and insurrection. I highly doubt it.

Although this is a testament to the patience of the Thais it is getting ridiculous. Sad fact is that its all fueled by Thaksin's desire to simply get money and power back. Additionally, its not even large contingents anymore but most likely local thugs and bored and unemployed youth acting.

I hope the reds come to their senses before the Army is forced to act.

[jcbangkok]

BTW, I'm going to make a prediction now: If the redshirts somehow get the PT into power their demands for an election will suddenly get forgotten. Once the Reds have their people in charge, all of this talk about democracy will abruptly end.

You aren't suggesting that the REDS are being less than honest about their REAL underlying goal are you? Heavens.. I for one am shocked...

"Once the Reds have their people in charge, all of this talk about democracy will abruptly end."

Totally agree with this statement. In fact:

- The reds have no manifesto.

- They have never talked about any structured approach to anything.

- None of their murky leaders has ever given a speech, a presentation, taken part in a moderated debate, handed out non-biased literature describing democracy, the benefits, the process, the pillars, the need to at all costs protect the pillare. NOTHING!

And all this leads to another point. If there was/is an election and the PT winds, then you can have a guarantee that: arisman, veera, jatuporn, weng, and more will take up the ministerial position.

Totally frightening!

We have all seen the way the Reds govern this last month ... holding hostages, stealing weapons, attack police, breaking into buildings, intimidating officials and others including the elections commission, reports, communication heads as well as going to war because they refuse to negotiate or care about what anybody else wants but themselves. In fact, you can even look at a longer history of the how the Reds govern and simply look at the Thaksin reign.

[hoilai]

And if the full force of the military is with the reds?

Thats why they have to act now the moment a red tries to take a weapon or military personel they should be shot , enough warnings.

.

...and vice versa.....