Did America Create Pattaya?

[phetpeter]

From a sleepy fishing village very early 60's Pattaya began to grow into what it is today, IMO it turned into an Adult Disneyland holiday/expat destination, as Pattaya IMO is not a family holiday destination yet, if I had a family with kids I cerainly would'nt take them to Pattaya, far more nicer places to go, I would'nt say America created Pattaya but I suppose they helped it grow and become more known.

I think Pattaya came about as an play resort for weekenders from Bangkok perhaps, it may well have turned into a sex playground...But not for farang at first you only have to travel to Chanthaburi to find how the Thai business people enjoy themselves in that town??

It just that Pattaya started in the vein of Cha am but farang started to find it an easy destination and many hotels in Bangkok started to build there too! and offer specials to the seaside

Sounds good eh?

Edited April 27, 2010 by peterandcat

[Sisaketmike]

Many years ago I met an American vet who told me Pattaya reallytook off in the early seventies.

Something about a lot of navy transport ships stopped off at Rayond on the way home, aparantly it all started then.

Is this right?

By Navy transport ships I assume you mean transport of things like oil and supplies as opposed to people. The American army moved people by commercial air most of the time.

I don't see much reason Navy crews docking in Rayong would have gone past Newland and Kilo Sip and U-Tapao to go to Pattaya. There were beaches at U-Tapoa air base and almost free food and beer along with women close by. Hard to imagine a military man turning down free beer to drive south another 30 kilometers to pay for it.

If you didn't know it American beer companies donated free beer to the troops in SEA and American troops were rationed free beer, whiskey and cigarettes on a monthly basis.

If memory serves me correctly on base even at private clubs beer was about 10 cents and in Bangkok (non military clubs) it was a dollar a bottle

At the Non Commissioned Officers club I could get a big steak, fries, bottle of wine and ice cream for under a dollar.

Until the late 1950’s Pattaya was a small fishing village like many others in the Gulf of Bangkok. Called Pad Tha Ya, which means the ‘wind blows from the southwest to the north-east at the beginning of the rainy season’, the name eventually became Pattaya.

Pattaya was a small fishing town before the tourists arrived

I've met a Vietnam Vet in Pattaya about 15 years ago. There wasn't a hotel, all the 'girls' came from Bangkok to give them a full coverage massage. Here's more about it.....

Before 1956 Pad Tha Ya was just a sub-district of Chonburi and did not even have the status of a municipality. This covered only the Naklua area, which was extended to South Pattaya in 1964. In about 1959 Pattaya started to expand into a resort for visiting American GIs from a base in Nakhon Ratchasima with plenty of money to spend. US navy men from nearby Sattahip, particularly during the Vietnam war, enabled great expansion of facilities available to visiting forces by local entrepreneurs, and Pattaya became an official centre of ‘Rest and Relaxation’ for American troops.

They were flown into U-Tapao airport, which was built for American use at the time, and hotel accommodation, shops, bars and services in Pattaya grew rapidly due to the increasing demand.

Many Thais, particularly from Bangkok, were also regular visitors for the weekend, many renting or buying small bungalows and beach huts in the area. From that point on, Pattaya grew very quickly as a holiday destination for both Thais and foreigners, and in 1978 the national government granted it city status to reflect this. ‘Pattaya City’ came into being on 29th November 1978, and this anniversary is celebrated every year.

The 1980s and 90s were also a boom time for Pattaya with a large influx of tourists from European countries, particularly in their winter. Later, as well heeled visitors moved south to the Andaman coast and Samui, a new generation of Russian, Eastern European and Arab nationals began arriving. The city’s administration has grown to cater for the increasing size and demands of Thailand’s biggest resort town, which now receives several million visitors every year, both Thai and foreign.

The city’s infrastructure has also grown to keep pace with increasing development, with construction of many condos in both Naklua and Jomtien, as well as “in-filling” of any available open space in Central and South Pattaya, making resources such as water scarce in the dry season. This has necessitated large public and private long term investment in major projects. The new Bangkok airport at Suvarnabhumi, which opens in the summer of 2006, will mean that Pattaya is only about an hour away on the new road which is under construction. This has brought another spate of development to Pattaya to meet what are seen to be the increasing needs of visitors.

to Bangkok, and partly as a legacy of the GI R&R activities during the Vietnam war, Pattaya developed a reputation as a party city, a badge it still honourably holds today. With this came an influx of girls from the poor Isaan region of Northeastern Thailand who supplied the ever-growing sex trade, which is very much part of the city.

However, Pattaya also has its serious side and provides for a growing community of foreigners employed in the burgeoning eastern seaboard industries of the area. An estimated 12,000 people from all parts of the world live permanently in Pattaya, supporting a large establishment of restaurants, bars, clubs, societies and services set up specifically to support them. This number is said to swell considerably with the part-time residents who spent part of their year here. This is evident in the extraordinary boom in construction and property prices that the city has recently witnessed.

Pattaya is a modern city and you won’t find any old buildings, simply because there aren’t any, although the Buddhist Temples (wats) have all the character and splendour of older buildings. This resort city has grown apace with the influx of visitors, and will no doubt continue to do so.

[Sisaketmike]

I am not an American, I am Scottish and I know the man who had the 3rd bar on what became Walking Street. He comes from Newcastle in England. This did not happen until the late 70's. So it follows that he would have had friends from the U.K. They would have come on holiday and thought exactly the same as thousands of other people who still come to Pattaya.....a beer bar ???...I could make money out this !!!!!

And so they did from many different countries. Not just America and not just military personnel from other countries.

I also know a Swiss gent who came in 1988 (a long time after the Vietnam war) and described Thrappaya Road over to Jomtien as a jungle track that led to a beach with no one on it. He swam nud_e and no one saw him or his girlfriend. He came to Pattaya as it was advertised in Bangkok by tour agencies as a beach resort.

Simple really. Nothing to do with JFK or LBJ or the good old US of A.......just people and a nice beach and tourism.

The nice beach has long gone and is now polluted to hel_l both in the water and on the land beside it.

Sadly just the way of the modern world.

Excuse me please, I'd like to be honest with you; just need to let you know that you're way off topic.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[usaflifer]

At Ubon in '68-'69, I heard of Pattaya, but that's about all. I transferred to Vietnam in 1970 where none of the G.I.'s had heard of Pattaya. Thais were doing rather well in boy-girl fun before our arrival. We didn't teach them anything...they taught us.

[longball53098]

Now after several days and following this topic as well as adding my baht's worth I think it's pretty safe to say the question has been answered that America did not create Pattaya. Maybe there was a hand in the pot stirring it but I would say many countries participated in Pattaya's creation.

This topic has been an interesting read and I found out some new information about the area. Keep it coming from all of us that spent time here back in the "good 'ol days"

[Totsagan]

Maybe not created, but more like financed the the construction and provided the consumer base

At the risk of offending all the Vietnam veterans, there is a school of thought that holds that the use of Thailand as an R&R center, while meant to help, served only to create problems and eroded order and discipline within the military. If one looks at past experience of R&R centers in WWII, and the Korean War, although the discipline problems were there, the situation was managed and there was no breakdown of general discipline. The proof is in how foreign militaries treat the process now. One will never see the chronic wild excesses of the Vietnam era today. Always, always maintain discipline in the ranks and places like Pattaya only serve to corrupt and undermine the authority of the command structure.

I'm going to get bashaed for being a canary now.

Geriatrickid I don’t want to bash you. But I must point out Pattaya was not an R&R center. I’ll repeat that for those of you who didn’t see it the first time. Pattaya was not an R&R center.

America did not finance or construct anything in Pattaya. America did not finance anything in Pattaya. It had R&R centers and hotels and clubs in Bangkok but not in Pattaya. America was completely out of Thailand and Vietnam by 1975 and there wasn’t anything built in Pattaya in 1975 except a couple of hotels. Google some photos of Pattaya in 1975. Nothing but a dirt road and a few motorbikes.

Do you want to discuss how Sidney being an R&R center completely denigrated the morals of Australia and created a sex Disney world at Kings Cross?

Do you want to talk about Hawaii, the most popular R&R destination for American troops destroying the morals of Waikiki beach? No, of course not because it doesn’t fit into your urban folk legend that America created sex tourism in Thailand. It ain’t so. It ain’t true. It is a folk tale contradicted in writing, photos and by talking to anyone who was here at the time.

Places like Pattaya may or may not undermine the command structure. Historically that might be an interesting discussion but we will never know because Pattaya was never part of the American experience in Vietnam.

Respectfully - I disagree that Pattaya was not a R&R center. I was stationed at Samae San, Sattahip during 1974 and lived off-base in Kilo 11, not far from the U-Tapao front gate. Like most of you, I didn't party in Pattaya. But the two times I spent time in Pattaya was on-duty supporting the military R&R center for functions there. In fact, I was told the Pattaya R&R was one of two properties "owned" by the U.S. - the other was, if I remember the name correctly Ramasan - an Army base near one of the AF bases.

By 1974 Pattaya was buidling up pretty rapidly - more than just G.I.'s there. A Thai businessman told me during that period that most of the financing was coming from Europe (Germany) and Japan.

I remember east Pattaya ended in a cul-de-sac, and I think there were only two (ladyboy) bars down there. It was unofficially off limits for GI's.

The military buses from U-Tapao and Sattahaip always went to BKK via Pattaya - a 3-hour trip and stopped in front of the R&R center to drop off soldiers and airmen. It was about a month before I discovered the orange buses left Sattahip for BKK by-passing Pattaya and making the trip in half the time. In those days, a bus trip on an orange bus was a real adrenalin rush - almost as good as being on the first chopper in or the last one out of a hot LZ.

The units from Samae San worked at the deep-water port in Sattahip. During 1974 we hosted Australian Navay ships at least twice. The boys from OZ filled up our NCO clubs and paid 10X the going rate for companionship.

In 1974, I believe U-tapao had about 13,000-15,000 airmen; Samae San about 1,300 soldiers. US had a military cap of about 70K-100k personnel during 74, but the USAF were able to hide the figures by rotating personnel in and out from the Philipines on 90 day rotations, so TDY didn't count against the troop strength.

Samae San had a beach, scuba gear, outdoor movie theater, minature golf course, etc. I think by 74 the golf course that was build by the AF had closed. Airmen and soldiers went to Newland. Not many folks went to Pattaya. Bob Hope did a show at U-tapao in 74. A change in govt had all GI's out of thailand in 75 or early 76. At any rate, the military left before the student demonstrations.

BUT - there WAS a R&R center in Pattaya in 74.

[Tywais]

Bob Hope did a show at U-tapao in 74.

"Entertainer Bob Hope used to visit the base every year between 1964 and 1972 with his USO Christmas show." Source Wiki. I saw him in 1968 with Ann Margret and The Gold Diggers. Great show.

.

[chuckd]

I remember one club which was mainly one big dance floor with tables around it, low lighting and music and the girls dancing either alone or with a customer. If you saw a girl on the dance floor you would like to join you you just tell the waiter and he would shine his flashlight (yes the clubs was pretty dark) to get her attention to come over.

That sounds like the Thai Heaven on New Petchburi Road - quite a place.

The first place I remember seeing go-go in a bar in Thailand was at the Grand Prix on Patpong run by Rick Menard. That was probably 1970.

The Grand Prix was the first go-go bar in Thailand. Rick opened in February 1969 on Patpong. Rick died a little over one year ago in Las Vegas.

The first go-go bar in Pattaya was the Tahitian Queen which opened in 1978. The TQ building was a restaurant/bar before that and was run by a long time resident of Pattaya, who is still there by the way, a Yank.

[Boksida]

The Grand Prix was the first go-go bar in Thailand. Rick opened in February 1969 on Patpong. Rick died a little over one year ago in Las Vegas.

Just a sidebar on the Grand Prix. I remember Bobby started off with a concession selling hot dogs to customers from a little sausage cooker on the bar. This then grew in to Bobby's Aroy Dee, Bobby's Arms and the Trattoria de Roberto.

Is he still around?

[IanForbes]

All I can add is I first visited Pattaya in 1997 after a devastating divorce from a woman I loved in Canada. I came on the advice from a friend and he kind of babysat me through the first few weeks. It helped turn my life around and gave me back my confidence. Thank you Pattaya.

Yah, I made all the newbie mistakes that most new guys make, but I always kept my wits about me and I never get drunk. As it has turned out it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It keeps me feeling young and I'm always happy now. I know it has done the same for others... even if sometimes in a somewhat artificial manner.

I only visit Pattaya once a year now, and only for a week to visit golfing friends, but it always brings back great memories. There have been many changes in the past 13 years, and the city is slowly evolving into a tourist center rather than a R&R party town, but it still keeps its original roots.

[kevozman1]

The Americans might not have created Pattaya, but they certainly had a hand in creating the Philippines poor man's version of it... Angeles City... an hour's drive north of Manilla.

Poor mans version of Pattaya.............. think I will keep away

from this Angeles City then.

[mark45y]

There were also British combat troops stationed in Thailand during the 60’s that no one mentioned. They came to help protect Thailand from the communist menace.

[puyaidon]

I was stationed at U-Tapao in 66-67 and the only thing Pattaya had was a small R&R facililty run by one guy for those at U-Tapao to use for going to the beach. The two bars in Pattaya were off-limits to GI's as the owners would not send their girls to the Sattahip hospital for veneral disease checkups. There was a small NCO club run for the JUSMAGTHAI personnel out of Bangkok that was situated where the Dusit is on the north end of Pattaya. There was a movie theater and small base exchange for the MAG people from Bangkok.

I came again in 1970 and there was not much more other than a few hotels, the Nipa Lodge was the first at now middle road. Lots of restaurants of all kinds and really had some good places to eat. Very few bars then. Most of the GI's came in on R&R through Bangkok. U-Tapao was only for the war effort with B-52's and KC-135's. I came back from emergency leave through U-Tapao and there was no mention of Pattaya for anything. Only Bangkok.

So from '66', we had kilosib through kilosib-song for bars, changed to Newland later after '67' due to a certain reason not to be discussed here and the bars stayed in Newland until the base closed in '75' or so.

The beach complex at U-Tapao was started in 1967 at the behest of the chaplins on base to keep the GI's on the base and not get involved with the local lasses off-base. I know this as I was in Civil Engineering and had to install a generator for power to run the refers for the snack bar and beer bar. Interesting to see that the Thai Navy allowed the girls to sign on to the base to go to the beach and the girls drummed up their customers on base. It did not make the chaplins happy but they could not bar the girls from the base as they were Thai citizens.

My last trip to Pattaya while stationed in Thailand was in 1971 so everything at Pattaya got going after that year.

Do you honestly think an American GI would travel on Thai roads from Bangkok to Pattaya when there was so much to do in Bangkok? After the Americans left, then Pattaya really took off as a tourist destination. I was shocked when I went there after 22 years. The difference between night and day. No, the Americans may have got there first but they were not the reason for Pattaya today.

[IanForbes]

The Americans might not have created Pattaya, but they certainly had a hand in creating the Philippines poor man's version of it... Angeles City... an hour's drive north of Manilla.

Poor mans version of Pattaya.............. think I will keep away

from this Angeles City then.

Good idea, unless you have back-up with a lot of friends. Last time I was there it was a pretty rough area and you are totally on your own. The local police are all in cahoots with the abundant criminals who have every scam known to man in full operation. You can't believe the number of scams they use to part the punters from their money. During the two years I visited there were 4 guys I knew who were murdered... and no investigation done afterwards.

[Nignoy]

There were also British combat troops stationed in Thailand during the 60’s that no one mentioned. They came to help protect Thailand from the communist menace.

And you read this Where?? only british troops active in thailand were Royal Engineers and other supportive corps, absolutely no Combat Units!! I did not know

the british army had such an animal, if by combat units you mean infantry or Airborne there were definitely none of these stationed in thailand in the 60,s, though the odd SAS observer did pass through, mind you I did come across quite a few British combat troop veterans in phuket bars in the late 1990,s, who loved explaining to the old disabled guy about the contacts and skirmishes they had with communist forces in NE thailand, its funny though, neither I nor any of my mates ever came across these troops, up the top end, but then they were obviously on deniable top secret Black Ops,and just a little piece of trivia I was actually with the first and as I believe only british soldier to be shot and killed in NE thailand in the 60,s!! now that was a Secret

[bonobo]

The Americans might not have created Pattaya, but they certainly had a hand in creating the Philippines poor man's version of it... Angeles City... an hour's drive north of Manilla.

Poor mans version of Pattaya.............. think I will keep away

from this Angeles City then.

Good idea, unless you have back-up with a lot of friends. Last time I was there it was a pretty rough area and you are totally on your own. The local police are all in cahoots with the abundant criminals who have every scam known to man in full operation. You can't believe the number of scams they use to part the punters from their money. During the two years I visited there were 4 guys I knew who were murdered... and no investigation done afterwards.

As a young Marine lieutenant in 1982 and under the protective wing of an Air Force Senior Master Sergeant, walking into Angeles for the first time was an amazing kaleidescope of exotic sexuality, a cacaphony of sound, and an assult on the senses for a young boy from Iowa. It is hard to describe the feeling that you are walking on a movie sound stage of an Asian verision of some wild west film. It was surreal and far more blatant than anything I have ever seen in Thailand, then or now. (Thailand in 1982, to include Pattaya, was much more laid back and easy-going, much less overtly commercial.)

Going back to the Clark Economic Zone in 2004 was such a disappointment, as was going to the VFW post there last year. I am not much of a bar patron, but I think I wanted to see just a hint of my youth, to touch base with that younger me. But the Angeles scene had retreated to a few despirited bars along Fields Avenue, a far cry from the excitement and joi de vivre of years past. My getting older might have had something to do with that, but to me, Angeles is just a rather sad place now.

(But they still make the best burgers in Asia there, so it has that one redeeming value!)

[toenail]

From a sleepy fishing village very early 60's Pattaya began to grow into what it is today, IMO it turned into an Adult Disneyland holiday/expat destination, as Pattaya IMO is not a family holiday destination yet, if I had a family with kids I cerainly would'nt take them to Pattaya, far more nicer places to go, I would'nt say America created Pattaya but I suppose they helped it grow and become more known.

*************************

(Observations from an American who works in Thailand:) So, it sounds like a myth when the travel brochures state that the American GI's during the Vietnam War made the fishing village into a well known destiny. I personally think it was the cheap flights from Europe (Brits and the Germans) during the 70's - 90's that brought in the single male visitors (now, that has changed the last 5 years). Because of the economic crunch, one is seeing more Korean and Chinese bus tours roaming around in Pattaya. And the Russians have found Pattaya to be a "family destination". According to figures, the Russians make up the largest nationality that now visits Pattaya. This is good for the 4-5 star hotels and restaurants but not for the soi bars since the Russsian men bring their blond, blue eye girlfriends/ young wife with them to LOS. Very seldom do I run into American tourists in Pattaya, unless they are from the "Vietnam era"; infact, there are less Americans visiting Thailand due to the economic crisis--cheaper for them to fly to Mexico or the Carribean.

[p_brownstone]

Do you honestly think an American GI would travel on Thai roads from Bangkok to Pattaya when there was so much to do in Bangkok?

This is a good point too.

In the early 1970's the Bangkok - Pattaya road was a simple 2 lane Highway, built only just above the level of the Paddy Fields, with bridges over the many small Klongs the old Thai style rising within a few meters to some 3 meters high, a flat top and then falling away equally quickly on the far side. (They were built like that to allow unladen Rice Barges to pass underneath).

The road was extremely dangerous - especially at night - since Thai drivers had a habit of overtaking anywhere, even just before a bridge, so you would often come over the bridge to find another car head-on in your lane. Nearly evey bridge had wrecked cars pushed to the side of the road just before or after it.

If I recall correctly it was on the day of my first trip from Bangkok to Pattay that the then Supreme Patriach was killed in just such an accident.

Patrick

[mark45y]

There were also British combat troops stationed in Thailand during the 60’s that no one mentioned. They came to help protect Thailand from the communist menace.

And you read this Where?? only british troops active in thailand were Royal Engineers and other supportive corps, absolutely no Combat Units!! I did not know

the british army had such an animal, if by combat units you mean infantry or Airborne there were definitely none of these stationed in thailand in the 60,s, though the odd SAS observer did pass through, mind you I did come across quite a few British combat troop veterans in phuket bars in the late 1990,s, who loved explaining to the old disabled guy about the contacts and skirmishes they had with communist forces in NE thailand, its funny though, neither I nor any of my mates ever came across these troops, up the top end, but then they were obviously on deniable top secret Black Ops,and just a little piece of trivia I was actually with the first and as I believe only british soldier to be shot and killed in NE thailand in the 60,s!! now that was a Secret

Not Army, Air Force. 1962, operation Bibber. To defend Thailand against incursions from Vietnam and Laos. Guns bombs and everything. British combat forces on the ground in Thailand. It was not the original operation Bibber which was the occupation of Bangkok in 1945. That was operation bibber too.

[IanForbes]

The Americans might not have created Pattaya, but they certainly had a hand in creating the Philippines poor man's version of it... Angeles City... an hour's drive north of Manilla.

Poor mans version of Pattaya.............. think I will keep away

from this Angeles City then.

Good idea, unless you have back-up with a lot of friends. Last time I was there it was a pretty rough area and you are totally on your own. The local police are all in cahoots with the abundant criminals who have every scam known to man in full operation. You can't believe the number of scams they use to part the punters from their money. During the two years I visited there were 4 guys I knew who were murdered... and no investigation done afterwards.

As a young Marine lieutenant in 1982 and under the protective wing of an Air Force Senior Master Sergeant, walking into Angeles for the first time was an amazing kaleidescope of exotic sexuality, a cacaphony of sound, and an assult on the senses for a young boy from Iowa. It is hard to describe the feeling that you are walking on a movie sound stage of an Asian verision of some wild west film. It was surreal and far more blatant than anything I have ever seen in Thailand, then or now. (Thailand in 1982, to include Pattaya, was much more laid back and easy-going, much less overtly commercial.)

Going back to the Clark Economic Zone in 2004 was such a disappointment, as was going to the VFW post there last year. I am not much of a bar patron, but I think I wanted to see just a hint of my youth, to touch base with that younger me. But the Angeles scene had retreated to a few despirited bars along Fields Avenue, a far cry from the excitement and joi de vivre of years past. My getting older might have had something to do with that, but to me, Angeles is just a rather sad place now.

(But they still make the best burgers in Asia there, so it has that one redeeming value!)

Great story, bonobo. I remember sitting on a marble balcony of a sleezy hotel watching all the "young traffic" go by, and feeling like I was part of a scene out of an Ernest Hemingway movie. We had a case of beer sitting beside us and a bucket of ice, and someone always had a tape deck with music playing. The gals would come upstairs and flirt with us while we shared the drinks. It was always the gals who decided who was going to go with whom and they outnumbered us 3 to 1. The hotel was owned by a grumpy Frenchman who had a lovely Filipina wife called Alma. She was the smart one. It was good times providing you didn't get drunk and do something stupid. And, as long as you didn't go anywhere alone your back was covered. There was a street called "Blow row" for obvious reasons and the place to eat was Margarittaville. I haven't been back in about 10 years. Sorry to hear it's gone down hill.

[jonwilly]

In 72 I was stationed in West Germany.

The German barber had a selection of German Language magazines and many featured Articles on the New Tourist Sexspot of Pattaya.

So I will agree with the gents who placed much of the blame on The Germans and Condor airline.

To the best of my knowledge the only Brit troops in Thailand in 70's where Engineers building Airfields, associated facilities and a Large Signals section on intercept duties. I have never heard of any suggestion of Brit combat troops. Later some SF where deployed to train Thai SF during the Cambodian troubles.

john

I know well a US member of JUSMAG who was over during the time mentioned and I will ask him for his memories.

[mark45y]

In 72 I was stationed in West Germany.

The German barber had a selection of German Language magazines and many featured Articles on the New Tourist Sexspot of Pattaya.

So I will agree with the gents who placed much of the blame on The Germans and Condor airline.

To the best of my knowledge the only Brit troops in Thailand in 70's where Engineers building Airfields, associated facilities and a Large Signals section on intercept duties. I have never heard of any suggestion of Brit combat troops. Later some SF where deployed to train Thai SF during the Cambodian troubles.

john

I know well a US member of JUSMAG who was over during the time mentioned and I will ask him for his memories.

Following a Pathet Lao offensive in Laos during early 1962, the South East Asia Treaty Organisation establishes a multinational Joint Task Force, JTF 116, to defend Thailand against any potential Pathet Lao or North Vietnamese incursion. The RAF element of this force (Operation Bibber) comprised an initial detachment of 6 Hawker Hunter FGA9s, which was later increased to 10, drawn from No.20 Squadron, which deployed from Tengah to Don Maung in Bangkok, from this date. Subsequently, the detachment transferred to Chieng Mai in northern Thailand.

Source Royal Air Force Museum.

[jonwilly]

I know the Brit civvy, ex R.E. Staff Officer, who was the liaison with the Hunter Det.

We normally have a curry lunch once a week.

However I will stick with my comment that there where NO British combat troops, should have said ground forces, deployed to Thailand.

john

[mark45y]

I know the Brit civvy, ex R.E. Staff Officer, who was the liaison with the Hunter Det.

We normally have a curry lunch once a week.

However I will stick with my comment that there where NO British combat troops, should have said ground forces, deployed to Thailand.

john

That is kind of nitpicking. Men in an aircraft designed for combat and you don’t call them combat troops? What is the difference between men who kill from the air and men who kill from the ground? There were British combat military personal in Thailand during the 1960’s. Yes, No?

[Lumumba]

The Americans might not have created Pattaya, but they certainly had a hand in creating the Philippines poor man's version of it... Angeles City... an hour's drive north of Manilla.

Poor mans version of Pattaya.............. think I will keep away

from this Angeles City then.

Good idea, unless you have back-up with a lot of friends. Last time I was there it was a pretty rough area and you are totally on your own. The local police are all in cahoots with the abundant criminals who have every scam known to man in full operation. You can't believe the number of scams they use to part the punters from their money. During the two years I visited there were 4 guys I knew who were murdered... and no investigation done afterwards.

I would not want to know you in light of that revelation.

[andyww]

Pattaya as a tourist destination was started by the German who built the Nipa Lodge Hotel which was the first "proper" tourist hotel. Now called the Nova Lodge.

[TigerWan]

Geriatrickid I don't want to bash you. But I must point out Pattaya was not an R&R center. I'll repeat that for those of you who didn't see it the first time. Pattaya was not an R&R center.

America did not finance or construct anything in Pattaya. .......there wasn't anything built in Pattaya in 1975 except a couple of hotels. Google some photos of Pattaya in 1975. Nothing but a dirt road and a few motorbikes.

but we will never know because Pattaya was never part of the American experience in Vietnam.

Not true. My father was attached to to The Royal Air Force in 69- 71 and we would go to Pattaya for vacations. Many other US military families were there and houses were available to rent.

There was a movie theatre that I remember vividly as it showed some horror movie with dolls that freaked me out so completely I would never play with baby dolls again.

I learned to ride horses at the Bankok Polo Club and my dad would rent a pony on Pattaya beach for the day I would ride around on , for what 5 baht an hour ? ( Or did he rent it for the week ? )

I was a 8- 9 year old girl, totally unsupervised- things were very different in those days.

I remember that clearly because one day my pony got sick of plodding around the residential neighborhood and took off with me clinging to te saddle.

It shot out across the road back toward where it was kept on the beach, very lucky that pony and I that no traffic was there.

I was crying, terrified , absolutely unable to control it and two young soldiers came up behind me in a convertible, gunning the engine laughing drunkenly, racing us , urging the pony on.

I guess I really learned quite a bit about life going to Pattaya beach.

My dad's call name was Tiger, he flew 104 fighter jets prior to but at that time was doing something with JUSMAG ( ? )

as an aside, he imported a cream 68 Mustang and hired a driver to get us kids around.

First day on the job, that young Thai man drive drove it into a klong, got out and we never heard from him again

Edited April 29, 2010 by TigerWan

[bonobo]

Great story, bonobo. I remember sitting on a marble balcony of a sleezy hotel watching all the "young traffic" go by, and feeling like I was part of a scene out of an Ernest Hemingway movie. We had a case of beer sitting beside us and a bucket of ice, and someone always had a tape deck with music playing. The gals would come upstairs and flirt with us while we shared the drinks. It was always the gals who decided who was going to go with whom and they outnumbered us 3 to 1. The hotel was owned by a grumpy Frenchman who had a lovely Filipina wife called Alma. She was the smart one. It was good times providing you didn't get drunk and do something stupid. And, as long as you didn't go anywhere alone your back was covered. There was a street called "Blow row" for obvious reasons and the place to eat was Margarittaville. I haven't been back in about 10 years. Sorry to hear it's gone down hill.

Blow row is now gone. I was always a little afraid of it, like I was of Whisper Alley outside Kadena Air Base in Okinawa. But Margaritaville is still there. Their burgers are great, and they are the only place I have found in Asia which makes US-style, or more specifically, Iowa-style pork tenderloin sandwiches. One of those and a mango shake and I am a happy man.

The Ernest Hemmingway reference is pretty apt.

[bonobo]

I know the Brit civvy, ex R.E. Staff Officer, who was the liaison with the Hunter Det.

We normally have a curry lunch once a week.

However I will stick with my comment that there where NO British combat troops, should have said ground forces, deployed to Thailand.

john

That is kind of nitpicking. Men in an aircraft designed for combat and you don't call them combat troops? What is the difference between men who kill from the air and men who kill from the ground? There were British combat military personal in Thailand during the 1960's. Yes, No?

I understand your point, and to the layman, yes, I would not bother to argue if arimen were called "combat troops." That would be nitpicking, as you put it. But as a US military man, the only "troops" who fly are Army helo and small aircraft pilots. "Combatants" would be an officially recognized word for anyone who fights, to include pilots, aircrews, sailors, and the like. Even Marines are not "troops," but that would be even a greater degree of nitpicking to object to them being called combat troops.

Nitpicking aside, your post on Operation Bibber was fascinating to me as I had never heard of that before. This whole thread is rather fascinating and enlightening to me as well, and I applaud the OP for starting it.

[philw]

Maybe not created, but more like financed the the construction and provided the consumer base

At the risk of offending all the Vietnam veterans, there is a school of thought that holds that the use of Thailand as an R&R center, while meant to help, served only to create problems and eroded order and discipline within the military. If one looks at past experience of R&R centers in WWII, and the Korean War, although the discipline problems were there, the situation was managed and there was no breakdown of general discipline. The proof is in how foreign militaries treat the process now. One will never see the chronic wild excesses of the Vietnam era today. Always, always maintain discipline in the ranks and places like Pattaya only serve to corrupt and undermine the authority of the command structure.

I'm going to get bashaed for being a canary now.

No you're not, you are dead right.

ph