July 16, 201015 yr Talk about Spin. Terrorist training camps teaching military skills are quite different from schools teaching Islamic ideology or how to fly a plane - no matter how some people abuse the knowledge - and the Taliban knowingly sheltered Al Quida before and after 9/11, so they got what was coming to them. As to laughable claims that the Taliban has only 'hurt" invaders, that anyone would make such a statement is almost beyond belief. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AKcB_1REsw&feature=fvw On Genocide of the Hazaras " The policy of the Taliban is to exterminate the Hazaras" Maulawi Mohammed Hanif, Taliban CommanderAnnouncing their policy to a crowd of 300people summoned to a mosque [after killing15,000 Hazaras people in a day] " Hazaras are not Muslim. You can kill them. It is not a sin." Mullah Manon Niazi Governor of Mazar-e SharifSpeaking to a crowd in a mosque after the fall of mazar city On Women " We do not need women to work. What positive roles can they play in the society? What is the impact of their roles? We do not need women. They should stay in their houses" Mullah Manon Niazi. Taliban leader and appointed Governor of Mazar-e Sharif Destroying Buddha Statues " Some people believe in these statues and pray to them ... If people say these are not our beliefs but only part of the history of Afghanistan, then all we are breaking are stones." Mullah Muhammad Omar Taliban Supreme Leader
July 16, 201015 yr spin that plays on an emotional level to the patriotically blind. Also the patriotically lazy
July 16, 201015 yr Author The Taliban have only hurt people who invaded their country. That is about as far from the truth as a statement can get. I doubt the Taliban themselves make that claim. They consistently hurt and killed Afghans who did things like, go to school, fly kites, or not growing a beard.
July 16, 201015 yr The Taliban have only hurt people who invaded their country. That is about as far from the truth as a statement can get. I doubt the Taliban themselves make that claim. They consistently hurt and killed Afghans who did things like, go to school, fly kites, or not growing a beard. You're correct and my phrasing was wrong. Sure they have killed plenty of Afghans but so have all the other tribal groups. I doubt they have killed as many Afghans as the British and Americans though. Even the Taleban doesn't blow up whole wedding parties.
July 16, 201015 yr I completely agree that the 'Taliban' as it was (is?), should be combated. However, the US/West will in my opinion never be able to control the region (as the British did in India). While it is tragic that the Afghan people should suffer under such a primitive regime, surely the priority for the 'west' is to look after our own... Racheting up 'global wars' will not bring back prosperity as it did to the British empire and it's subjects (some of them). The British Empire wanted to conquer peoples and their lands and rob them of their resources. The US has never had any interest in staying long term and actually pay top dollar for the resources. Oh come on.... you have 800 odd bases around the world... UK is one of them! It is the hub of your europe wide surveillance system - echelon.You are out of the phillipines.. yes. Not out of Japan... You are in Germany. The Marshall plan may have been a noble one, but to think that the US empire has no interest in control is not fair. You support half the nutcase regimes around the world!... you may pay top dollar but it sure doesnt trickle down.. anyway.. a topic for another thread.. british vs US empires... p.s: The brits would (and probably are) doing just the same as the 'yanks'.. after all.. we dont have nation states anymore in the west...
July 16, 201015 yr So the U.S. "controls" every place where they have a military base? Those Brits seem pretty Independent to me.
July 16, 201015 yr Author I completely agree that the 'Taliban' as it was (is?), should be combated. However, the US/West will in my opinion never be able to control the region (as the British did in India). While it is tragic that the Afghan people should suffer under such a primitive regime, surely the priority for the 'west' is to look after our own... Racheting up 'global wars' will not bring back prosperity as it did to the British empire and it's subjects (some of them). The British Empire wanted to conquer peoples and their lands and rob them of their resources. The US has never had any interest in staying long term and actually pay top dollar for the resources. Oh come on.... you have 800 odd bases around the world... UK is one of them! It is the hub of your europe wide surveillance system - echelon.You are out of the phillipines.. yes. Not out of Japan... You are in Germany. The Marshall plan may have been a noble one, but to think that the US empire has no interest in control is not fair. You support half the nutcase regimes around the world!... you may pay top dollar but it sure doesnt trickle down.. anyway.. a topic for another thread.. british vs US empires... p.s: The brits would (and probably are) doing just the same as the 'yanks'.. after all.. we dont have nation states anymore in the west... A Russian friend of mine once asked what was the difference between the USA & NATO and the USSR & Warsaw Pact. I told him, when the French & Greeks told us to leave, we left. When The Hungarians and Czechs told the Russians to leave, they rolled in the tanks.
July 21, 201015 yr Just listening to an interesting radio debate with an American historian explaining why the coalition will fail. He claims the US went with ostensibly Tajiks forces when storming into the Stan. The new Afghan Army is staffed and led by this ethnic group who are a much hated minority in the country as a whole. The Taliban exploit this with the majority Pushtun clans, thus the recruitment is poor and the hearts and minds campaigns in the county-side fail before they start. Seems the Russians were well aware of this and have been pissing themselves laughing on the side lines.
July 21, 201015 yr Should the Russians really be laughing at anyone else? They did not do so well there themselves.
July 21, 201015 yr Talk about Spin. Terrorist training camps teaching military skills are quite different from schools teaching Islamic ideology or how to fly a plane - no matter how some people abuse the knowledge - and the Taliban knowingly sheltered Al Quida before and after 9/11, so they got what was coming to them. presently it is not clear who will get what. no such thing as the claim of the texan village idiot "we will smoke them out of their caves"! actually it looks like that the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and its bootlicking "coalition of the willing" will leave Afghanistan with the tails tucked in as the Russians and all other wannabe invaders did. p.s. if madrasas were able to teach how to fly a plane why did the sep11 terrorists take flying lessons in Florida?
July 21, 201015 yr Never thought about that! Good point. I guess the British Raj occured because it had evolved somewhat, and was able to become centralised. (Not without the obvious imperialistic damage to the respective kingdoms of course). Just ask the Sikhs over in the UK (luckily the ones with the blue turbans are the militant clan - so easy to spot!) , not to mention the millions of Pakistani's and Bangladeshi's there... At the last census there were 747,285 Pakistanis in the UK and 283,063 Bangladeshis - a total of 1.8% of the UK population. These are the " Legal ' figures. The truth is a tad more alarming. why "alarming"? please elaborate.
July 21, 201015 yr if madrasas were able to teach how to fly a plane why did the sep11 terrorists take flying lessons in Florida? Well for one thing box cutters were for sale only in Florida as it is an outlawed weapon in other countries. The other was quality of training....
July 21, 201015 yr Never thought about that! Good point. I guess the British Raj occured because it had evolved somewhat, and was able to become centralised. (Not without the obvious imperialistic damage to the respective kingdoms of course). Just ask the Sikhs over in the UK (luckily the ones with the blue turbans are the militant clan - so easy to spot!) , not to mention the millions of Pakistani's and Bangladeshi's there... At the last census there were 747,285 Pakistanis in the UK and 283,063 Bangladeshis - a total of 1.8% of the UK population. These are the " Legal ' figures. The truth is a tad more alarming. why "alarming"? please elaborate. Already have done further in the thread. However, In short, the " legal " immigrants to any country are just that " legal " and should be welcomed as such. The true figure for the generic " Pakistani " residents is far higher as any Immigration Officer will tell you. Stuffed full of Illegal Immigrants, who certainly are not welcome. Illegal Immigrants work for peanuts undercutting local traders who can not compete with labour costs, legally now so high. If jobless, Illegal Immigrants out of desperation often turn to crime and certainly as has been shown by actual arrests often harbour or are involved themselves in acts of terror. Legal Immigrants welcome and please contribute to your new home. Illegals, f$^& off back to where you came from................simple in it.
July 21, 201015 yr Author actually it looks like that the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and its bootlicking "coalition of the willing" will leave Afghanistan with the tails tucked in as the Russians and all other wannabe invaders did. Maybe. If and when it happens, the Americans, Brits, Canadians, and other NATO members (including the Germans who do nothing more than stay in the safety of their base and drink beer) will all go home to continue their comfortable lives. The "victorious" and 'noble" Afghanis will continue to live in Stone Age conditions and be oppressed - not by Western corporations paying billion$ for their resources -, but by local and Pakistani religious extremists who will continue to kill them at a rate far exceeding any during the past 9 years by the hands & bombs of NATO forces..
July 21, 201015 yr actually it looks like that the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and its bootlicking "coalition of the willing" will leave Afghanistan with the tails tucked in Sounds like somebody is still upset about losing WW 2.
July 22, 201015 yr George Bush has asked me to pass on to "the nuts at Thai Visa" that the U.S. is not going to invade any countries with functional nuclear bombs. I don't think that he is lying this time. Osama bin Laden 'hiding in Pakistan', says Clinton Hillary Clinton has said she believes Osama bin Laden is still hidden inside Pakistan. Ben Farmer in Kabul Published: 7:30AM BST 21 Jul 2010 The American Secretary of State said she believed the fugitive head of the al Qaeda terrorist network was at large nearly nine years after United States forces helped topple his Taliban hosts in neighbouring Afghanistan. Speaking before heading to the Kabul International conference, she said: "I believe (bin Laden) is here in Pakistan and it would be very helpful if we could take them (al-Qaeda leaders)." Leon Panetta, head of the CIA, last month said bin Laden remained in "very deep hiding". The American spy service has maintained bin Laden is alive despite rumours of poor health and a lack of verified sightings or appearances in recent years. Several audio propaganda messages have been released purporting to be from him. Hamid Karzai, speaking at the conference, said he believed the Taliban leader and founder Mullah Mohammad Omar was also across the border. He said: "We have known all along that some of the very, very senior leadership of the Taliban were in Pakistan, this is not news to us." He told the conference the Taliban was "a vicious common enemy that violates every Islamic and international norm to break our unity of effort".
July 22, 201015 yr "Hillary Clinton has said she believes Osama bin Laden is still hidden inside Pakistan" Hillary also believes that Bill doesn't get blowjobs anymore
July 22, 201015 yr actually it looks like that the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and its bootlicking "coalition of the willing" will leave Afghanistan with the tails tucked in Sounds like somebody is still upset about losing WW 2. an 18 months old swiss national living in Switzerland in 1945 did not care then nor does he care now who has won or lost World War II even though he holds besides his swiss passport also a german passport. irrelevant and lame diversions not acceptable! next.
July 22, 201015 yr actually it looks like that the Greatest Nation on Earth™ and its bootlicking "coalition of the willing" will leave Afghanistan with the tails tucked in as the Russians and all other wannabe invaders did. Maybe. If and when it happens, the Americans, Brits, Canadians, and other NATO members (including the Germans who do nothing more than stay in the safety of their base and drink beer) will all go home to continue their comfortable lives. The "victorious" and 'noble" Afghanis will continue to live in Stone Age conditions and be oppressed - not by Western corporations paying billion$ for their resources -, but by local and Pakistani religious extremists who will continue to kill them at a rate far exceeding any during the past 9 years by the hands & bombs of NATO forces.. life is a bitch!
July 22, 201015 yr The true figure for the generic " Pakistani " residents is far higher as any Immigration Officer will tell you. hmmm... the "generic" ones report to immigration which keeps records?
July 22, 201015 yr The true figure for the generic " Pakistani " residents is far higher as any Immigration Officer will tell you. hmmm... the "generic" ones report to immigration which keeps records? Instead of fencing and dancing round like a Panzer Commander without a tank. What's your point ? Edited to add grumpy Panzer Commander.
July 22, 201015 yr Author actually it looks like that the Greatest Nation on Earth and its bootlicking "coalition of the willing" will leave Afghanistan with the tails tucked in Sounds like somebody is still upset about losing WW 2. an 18 months old swiss national living in Switzerland in 1945 did not care then nor does he care now who has won or lost World War II even though he holds besides his swiss passport also a german passport. irrelevant and lame diversions not acceptable! next. Remind us again which side your father fought for? I can understand not caring who won as an 18 month old baby. But you are saying that today you don't care either. That means you would be fine with the idea of Nazi Germany winning WWII. That explains a lot.
July 22, 201015 yr an 18 months old swiss national living in Switzerland in 1945 did not care then nor does he care now who has won or lost World War II even though he holds besides his swiss passport also a german passport. irrelevant and lame diversions not acceptable! next. Remind us again which side your father fought for? I can understand not caring who won as an 18 month old baby. But you are saying that today you don't care either. That means you would be fine with the idea of Nazi Germany winning WWII. That explains a lot. Boy we sure read differently....... All I see is a guy saying that at the time of WWII he was an 18 month old baby & could care less who won then nor now meaning he took no side....Then or now Speaking of war they just had a special on TV here...It was all about the ongoing health problems in Vietnam due to agent Orange....Man that was nasty stuff & seems to easily qualify as a WMD Pretty sickening to see how even today the effects still ravage both older & newborns.
July 22, 201015 yr Author an 18 months old swiss national living in Switzerland in 1945 did not care then nor does he care now who has won or lost World War II even though he holds besides his swiss passport also a german passport. irrelevant and lame diversions not acceptable! next. Remind us again which side your father fought for? I can understand not caring who won as an 18 month old baby. But you are saying that today you don't care either. That means you would be fine with the idea of Nazi Germany winning WWII. That explains a lot. Boy we sure read differently....... All I see is a guy saying that at the time of WWII he was an 18 month old baby & could care less who won then nor now meaning he took no side....Then or now It's as if I said that in the American Civil War I wouldn't care if the Confederate States had won. If I were a southerner, that might be expected but I wouldn't say it in public. Seeing how Naam has family connections to Nazi Germany, I guess his attitude isn't surprising but it is surprising that he would say it here. Then again, he also wrote something about the "alleged" Holocaust.
July 22, 201015 yr Then again, he also wrote something about the "alleged" Holocaust. More than once, plus a number of posts calling other posters stereotypical Jewish names in an insulting manner and strongly implying that all Jews support Israel's policies. Maybe this belongs in the Mel Gibson thread.
July 23, 201015 yr View Postkoheesti, on 2010-07-22 15:09, said:Then again, he also wrote something about the "alleged" Holocaust. your posting explains a lot because you Sir seem to be an "alleged" goddàmn liar.
July 23, 201015 yr The true figure for the generic " Pakistani " residents is far higher as any Immigration Officer will tell you. hmmm... the "generic" ones report to immigration which keeps records? Instead of fencing and dancing round like a Panzer Commander without a tank. What's your point ? Edited to add grumpy Panzer Commander. my point is that obviously you would like to shoot "generic" Pakistanis but your gun is rusty and you lack ammunition.
July 23, 201015 yr True neutrality seems difficult to find in the world today, no matter where we live. We are subjected to family thinking from birth, via family Archie Bunker types. School age bullies seem to focus on the smaller introverted classmates, those wearing glasses, those of different skin color, physical differences, religious practice, etc and this seems to influence class mates. Then the subtle prejudices of teachers/bosses are picked up and finally we are subjected to slanted media reports. I have noticed that some of those who point out what they perceive as prejudicial ramblings/statements, can at times exhibit like comments. I like to think that many posts are tongue in cheek, or attempts to yank some particular individuals chain. I try not to take things personally unless they are so directed and then my response will depend on many other factors, including the weather outside.
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