It's very convenient for the pro-Israel lobby to overlook the fact that the blockade is illegal and anti-humanitarian; That fact is what the aid convoy was all about.

That is because the protective blockade is not only legal but necessary. It is to prevent terrorists from smuggling in missiles and other weapons and these violent activists were quite capable of trying it.

The "aid" convoy was about provoking Israel. The "humanitarian" crap is all complete hogwash.

I hear nobody about the people who were killed.

LaoPo

They are dead LaoPo, what were you wanting to hear about them?

They would probably be alive & breathing if they had acted more reasonably. I also agree that Israel could of handled this a little bit differently.

It's very convenient for the pro-Israel lobby to overlook the fact that the blockade is illegal and anti-humanitarian; That fact is what the aid convoy was all about.

It amazes me how you initially called other people, 'oneeyed' in this thread, yet now you seem to fit that cateogry yourself.

Are you sure that any of the blockades that israel has in place are 'anti-humanitarian'? From what I had seen over recent years theres plenty of humanitarian aid getting into Gaza, as long as it goes through the correct routes and channels. Am I wrong?

Perhaps some people aboard this vessel could of made more wiser decisions, the aid that is presently bobbing around in the middle of the ocean could of now been available to helping the people it was so designed to help. Something tells me theres a different agenda though

Perhaps some people aboard this vessel could of made more wiser decisions, the aid that is presently bobbing around in the middle of the ocean could of now been available to helping the people it was so designed to help. Something tells me theres a different agenda though

I think the only thing sent bobbing into the sea was one Israeli commando.

..."trying to run a blockade..." ? whilst the (slow) ship was 120 km or 75 miles away from the blockade ?

So you believe the Gaza-bound "freedom flotilla" had no intention of breaking the blockade? Uh-huh.

You anti-Israel people are a hoot. You people remind me of this Russian guy I met while I was in Moscow...

Russian guy: I pity the Jews, I really do.

Me: Why's that?

Russian guy: Because they are so disfigured. Some have horns.

Me: Are you serious? <deleted>?

I think it was a cold, cynical and perhaps clever, manipulative, nauseous piece of work by Hamas. Israel survives by making sure it does not make empty threats. A compromise solution was offered ( alternative berthing ) and this was turned down. Now why do you think that was if the humanitarian side of this was paramount in the thinking...........?

I am certainly not pro-Israeli ( dad in the old Palestine mob who was held under house arrest when he and some of his fellow veterans threatened to make a citizens arrest on Begin on his first official visit to the UK ), but saying that, I admire their strength and self-belief. Their tactics often leave a lot to be desired, one of them the way they can be conned and manipulated into doing something silly like this to hold to their principles of self-defence no matter what.

Playing games with such much needed aid, is even more sick making and using well meaning folk as cover for such a blatant political act, is a bit like herding civilians in front of your tanks as you advance.

You write as if you agree that the entire flotilla and it's decision to continue towards Gaza was a Hamas idea. It is not a realistic idea and in my mind very unlikely.

We may never know.

The "compromise" that Israel offered was untenable to the aid organisers. The whole idea was to get humanitarian aid to the suffering Gazans; Do you think Israel would have allowed all the aid in, and in a timely fashion? Israel bans all sorts of harmless items on their ridiculous pretext of "security."Prohibited items include common ones like sage, cardamon, jam, vinegar, chocolate, fruit preserves and dried fruit, seeds and nuts, biscuits and sweets, fresh meat, fabric for clothing, fishing rods, musical instruments, writing implements, notebooks, newspapers, toys, razors, heaters, horses, donkeys, goats, cattle, and chicks."

It was Israel's blockade that the flotilla was making a stand about. The blockade, put in place ostensibly for security, is in fact in place to punish, subjugate, demoralise, and harm the Palestinian civilians.

On this one mate, I do feel the aid would have gotten through as the US would have forced their hand to do it. As said I have no love for Israelis but no hatred for the jewish race and do not confuse the two.

Perhaps some people aboard this vessel could of made more wiser decisions, the aid that is presently bobbing around in the middle of the ocean could of now been available to helping the people it was so designed to help. Something tells me theres a different agenda though

I think the only thing sent bobbing into the sea was one Israeli commando.

I actually met an Israeli commando once, nice fellow.

It amuses me the amount of people that rush to defend violent thugs who claim they are on a peaceful aid giving mission but then turn and attack military personnel when their vessel is being legally boarded. Makes me wonder what they had to hide? Imagine being foolish enough to attack heavily armed commandos with pipes and sticks and then winge and biatch when they get shot?

Yeah, it wasn't political at all..

________________________________________________

"In another bizarre twist, Israel unloaded supplies from the six boats commandeered during the raid and sent some of the goods toward Gaza, only to see the blockaded territory's Hamas rulers refuse to accept them.

Israeli security officials said they had loaded 20 trucks with equipment that was on the ships, including wheelchairs, toys, clothes and medicine. They said contrary to earlier claims, there was no cement on board.

The Hamas minister of social affairs, Ahmad al-Kurd, accused Israel of keeping batteries for the wheelchairs and withholding tons of cement carried by the flotilla. He said the government would not accept the aid until Israel frees everything confiscated from the ships, but later said the aid would be picked up when all detainees were released."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100603/ap_on_...el_palestinians

________________________________________________

typically, everything is not as it first seems.

You anti-Israel people are a hoot.

Thankfully, you did not see some hateful, bigoted remarks that the mods deleted that were directed towards all Jews (not just Israelis).

You anti-Israel people are a hoot.You people remind me of this Russian guy I met while I was in Moscow...

You remind me of some guy...........sounds like the start to a bad joke

No what is really funny is how all the wolves in sheep's clothing appear as sympathetic now.

These same prats always have crap to toss on just about every race ...saying things like spoils of war tough luck for them ... Or pidgeon hole the whole German race for past deeds ( no I am not German ) as I have seen here by those who now cry racist.....But suddenly when the unmentionables do a dirty deed it is oh....oh....how cruel .....how racist.

Yeah right .....save it for folks who do not have eyes, ears & memories.

It aint about race at all & lets really quit the bull sh!t & call it what it is.

Someone did wrong....folks are dead needlessly...thats all.

The world would be just as outraged if it was Japanese, Germans or anyone else.

God help them had the aggressors been Korean or Iranians ( or any unchosen not in the club group )....They would be under attack by now.

The supposed sheep are always trying to twist the truth into a....well they were worse...they deserved it...they said this or that.

There is some evil in any race/govt/country.... It aint about anti any country it is about anti wrongful acts.

Hey guess what ??......End of day actions speak louder than words & judge a tree by its fruit.

That is what Karma does..... SO we can pretty well figure it out from there & need not worry about justice in the long run I guess.

Carry on

You anti-Israel people are a hoot.You people remind me of this Russian guy I met while I was in Moscow...

You remind me of some guy...........sounds like the start to a bad joke

No what is really funny is how all the wolves in sheep's clothing appear as sympathetic now.

These same prats always have crap to toss on just about every race ...saying things like spoils of war tough luck for them ... Or pidgeon hole the whole German race for past deeds ( no I am not German ) as I have seen here by those who now cry racist.....But suddenly when the unmentionables do a dirty deed it is oh....oh....how cruel .....how racist.

Yeah right .....save it for folks who do not have eyes, ears & memories.

It aint about race at all & lets really quit the bull sh!t & call it what it is.

Someone did wrong....folks are dead needlessly...thats all.

The world would be just as outraged if it was Japanese, Germans or anyone else.

God help them had the aggressors been Korean or Iranians ( or any unchosen not in the club group )....They would be under attack by now.

The supposed sheep are always trying to twist the truth into a....well they were worse...they deserved it...they said this or that.

There is some evil in any race/govt/country.... It aint about anti any country it is about anti wrongful acts.

Hey guess what ??......End of day actions speak louder than words & judge a tree by its fruit.

That is what Karma does..... SO we can pretty well figure it out from there & need not worry about justice in the long run I guess.

Carry on

Just out of interest do you hold the same view of the International Community when it boards suspected Pirates off Somalia or suspected rogue WOMD shipments anywhere on the high seas ?

It's very convenient for the pro-Israel lobby to overlook the fact that the blockade is illegal and anti-humanitarian; That fact is what the aid convoy was all about.

It amazes me how you initially called other people, 'oneeyed' in this thread, yet now you seem to fit that cateogry yourself.

Are you sure that any of the blockades that israel has in place are 'anti-humanitarian'? From what I had seen over recent years theres plenty of humanitarian aid getting into Gaza, as long as it goes through the correct routes and channels. Am I wrong?

Perhaps some people aboard this vessel could of made more wiser decisions, the aid that is presently bobbing around in the middle of the ocean could of now been available to helping the people it was so designed to help. Something tells me theres a different agenda though

Yes, you are wrong. There's heaps of sources, just google "Items banned from Gaza" or simmilar wording. ...Or try "Gisha" which is an Israeli organisation.

"Plenty of humanitarian aid getting into Gaza"???? Just read the WHO, Amnesty International, Red Cross, UN....and more....reports on the issue. Just read, if you can find anything, exactly how and why Israel is imposing the blockade.....and when you read "why", keep in mind that nutmeg and pencils and paper do not offer a security risk, and so the "why's" that Israel publicly announces are not exactly the truth.

You anti-Israel people are a hoot.You people remind me of this Russian guy I met while I was in Moscow...

You remind me of some guy...........sounds like the start to a bad joke

No what is really funny is how all the wolves in sheep's clothing appear as sympathetic now.

These same prats always have crap to toss on just about every race ...saying things like spoils of war tough luck for them ... Or pigeon hole the whole German race for past deeds ( no I am not German ) as I have seen here by those who now cry racist.....But suddenly when the unmentionables do a dirty deed it is oh....oh....how cruel .....how racist.

Yeah right .....save it for folks who do not have eyes, ears & memories.

It ain't about race at all & lets really quit the bull sh!t & call it what it is.

Someone did wrong....folks are dead needlessly...thats all.

The world would be just as outraged if it was Japanese, Germans or anyone else.

God help them had the aggressors been Korean or Iranians ( or any unchosen not in the club group )....They would be under attack by now.

The supposed sheep are always trying to twist the truth into a....well they were worse...they deserved it...they said this or that.

There is some evil in any race/govt/country.... It aint about anti any country it is about anti wrongful acts.

Hey guess what ??......End of day actions speak louder than words & judge a tree by its fruit.

That is what Karma does..... SO we can pretty well figure it out from there & need not worry about justice in the long run I guess.

Carry on

Karma? I guess that explains why on one hand you have Muslim extremists blowing up people around the world (New York, DC, London, Madrid, Bali, Iraq, Afghanistan, India, etc, etc) and on the other hand the Muslim people are enduring more suffering than anyone should have to go through (Palestinians, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, etc, etc).

As for Israel, I don't agree with everything they do. I don't think they should keep building settlements for example. But you can be openly Muslim and go pray in your local mosque in Israel and live to pray another day where as in almost all Muslim countries you can't be openly Jewish and go to the synagogue.

As I heard on the TV today, "If the Palestinians lay down their weapons there will be peace. If the Israelis lay down their weapons they will be slaughtered". Does anyone here dispute that?

I think it was a cold, cynical and perhaps clever, manipulative, nauseous piece of work by Hamas. Israel survives by making sure it does not make empty threats. A compromise solution was offered ( alternative berthing ) and this was turned down. Now why do you think that was if the humanitarian side of this was paramount in the thinking...........?

I am certainly not pro-Israeli ( dad in the old Palestine mob who was held under house arrest when he and some of his fellow veterans threatened to make a citizens arrest on Begin on his first official visit to the UK ), but saying that, I admire their strength and self-belief. Their tactics often leave a lot to be desired, one of them the way they can be conned and manipulated into doing something silly like this to hold to their principles of self-defence no matter what.

Playing games with such much needed aid, is even more sick making and using well meaning folk as cover for such a blatant political act, is a bit like herding civilians in front of your tanks as you advance.

You write as if you agree that the entire flotilla and it's decision to continue towards Gaza was a Hamas idea. It is not a realistic idea and in my mind very unlikely.

We may never know.

The "compromise" that Israel offered was untenable to the aid organisers. The whole idea was to get humanitarian aid to the suffering Gazans; Do you think Israel would have allowed all the aid in, and in a timely fashion? Israel bans all sorts of harmless items on their ridiculous pretext of "security."Prohibited items include common ones like sage, cardamon, jam, vinegar, chocolate, fruit preserves and dried fruit, seeds and nuts, biscuits and sweets, fresh meat, fabric for clothing, fishing rods, musical instruments, writing implements, notebooks, newspapers, toys, razors, heaters, horses, donkeys, goats, cattle, and chicks."

It was Israel's blockade that the flotilla was making a stand about. The blockade, put in place ostensibly for security, is in fact in place to punish, subjugate, demoralise, and harm the Palestinian civilians.

On this one mate, I do feel the aid would have gotten through as the US would have forced their hand to do it. As said I have no love for Israelis but no hatred for the jewish race and do not confuse the two.

I'm sorry to contradict such a polite chap as yourself, but the US does nothing to force Israel to do anything.....and it is very clear that the US has had uncountable opportunities and reasons to get heavy with Israel, but as always pays lip service only...if that,.... and then continues to support Israel with arms and money.

Karma? I guess that explains why on one hand you have Muslim extremists blowing up people around the world (New York, DC, London, Madrid, Bali, Iraq, Afghanistan, India, etc, etc) and on the other hand the Muslim people are enduring more suffering than anyone should have to go through (Palestinians, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, etc, etc).

As for Israel, I don't agree with everything they do. I don't think they should keep building settlements for example. But you can be openly Muslim and go pray in your local mosque in Israel and live to pray another day where as in almost all Muslim countries you can't be openly Jewish and go to the synagogue.

As I heard on the TV today, "If the Palestinians lay down their weapons there will be peace. If the Israelis lay down their weapons they will be slaughtered". Does anyone here dispute that?

I'm not sure that karma is transferable from a culprit to an innocent of the same religion.

I dispute that. If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be none left within a generation because the Israelis would hasten their settlement building and eventually drive all Arabs out of the country.

Some Israelis deserve to be slaughtered.

I think it was a cold, cynical and perhaps clever, manipulative, nauseous piece of work by Hamas. Israel survives by making sure it does not make empty threats. A compromise solution was offered ( alternative berthing ) and this was turned down. Now why do you think that was if the humanitarian side of this was paramount in the thinking...........?

I am certainly not pro-Israeli ( dad in the old Palestine mob who was held under house arrest when he and some of his fellow veterans threatened to make a citizens arrest on Begin on his first official visit to the UK ), but saying that, I admire their strength and self-belief. Their tactics often leave a lot to be desired, one of them the way they can be conned and manipulated into doing something silly like this to hold to their principles of self-defence no matter what.

Playing games with such much needed aid, is even more sick making and using well meaning folk as cover for such a blatant political act, is a bit like herding civilians in front of your tanks as you advance.

You write as if you agree that the entire flotilla and it's decision to continue towards Gaza was a Hamas idea. It is not a realistic idea and in my mind very unlikely.

We may never know.

The "compromise" that Israel offered was untenable to the aid organisers. The whole idea was to get humanitarian aid to the suffering Gazans; Do you think Israel would have allowed all the aid in, and in a timely fashion? Israel bans all sorts of harmless items on their ridiculous pretext of "security."Prohibited items include common ones like sage, cardamon, jam, vinegar, chocolate, fruit preserves and dried fruit, seeds and nuts, biscuits and sweets, fresh meat, fabric for clothing, fishing rods, musical instruments, writing implements, notebooks, newspapers, toys, razors, heaters, horses, donkeys, goats, cattle, and chicks."

It was Israel's blockade that the flotilla was making a stand about. The blockade, put in place ostensibly for security, is in fact in place to punish, subjugate, demoralise, and harm the Palestinian civilians.

On this one mate, I do feel the aid would have gotten through as the US would have forced their hand to do it. As said I have no love for Israelis but no hatred for the jewish race and do not confuse the two.

I'm sorry to contradict such a polite chap as yourself, but the US does nothing to force Israel to do anything.....and it is very clear that the US has had uncountable opportunities and reasons to get heavy with Israel, but as always pays lip service only...if that,.... and then continues to support Israel with arms and money.

No problem mate that's what debate is all about. The US does reign in the Israeli State on a great deal of issues and has behind the scenes stopped them from some of the more forceful retaliations they felt necessary, that without the pressure applied, would have led to wide scale conflict.

the "why's" that Israel publicly announces are not exactly the truth.

Something like violent activists who lie about why they will not let Israel inspect their ship and terrorists who scoff at the "desperately needed" supplies once they are delivered?

Just out of interest do you hold the same view of the International Community when it boards suspected Pirates off Somalia or suspected rogue WOMD shipments anywhere on the high seas ?

Is this the classic "does a tree make a sound if it falls & none is there to hear it" approach?

Just out of interest do you hold the same view of the International Community when it boards suspected Pirates off Somalia or suspected rogue WOMD shipments anywhere on the high seas ?

Is this the classic "does a tree make a sound if it falls & none is there to hear it" approach?

Probably not........

It's very convenient for the pro-Israel lobby to overlook the fact that the blockade is illegal and anti-humanitarian; That fact is what the aid convoy was all about.

It amazes me how you initially called other people, 'oneeyed' in this thread, yet now you seem to fit that cateogry yourself.

Are you sure that any of the blockades that israel has in place are 'anti-humanitarian'? From what I had seen over recent years theres plenty of humanitarian aid getting into Gaza, as long as it goes through the correct routes and channels. Am I wrong?

Perhaps some people aboard this vessel could of made more wiser decisions, the aid that is presently bobbing around in the middle of the ocean could of now been available to helping the people it was so designed to help. Something tells me theres a different agenda though

Yes, you are wrong. There's heaps of sources, just google "Items banned from Gaza" or simmilar wording. ...Or try "Gisha" which is an Israeli organisation.

"Plenty of humanitarian aid getting into Gaza"???? Just read the WHO, Amnesty International, Red Cross, UN....and more....reports on the issue. Just read, if you can find anything, exactly how and why Israel is imposing the blockade.....and when you read "why", keep in mind that nutmeg and pencils and paper do not offer a security risk, and so the "why's" that Israel publicly announces are not exactly the truth.

I'm sure all these banned items can easily make it through via the Egyptian border. It's not that far to go, Gaza is a tiny place and there are no Israelis in sight.

Karma? I guess that explains why on one hand you have Muslim

yada yada yada..............Same old song & dance....Somebody else did this & that....... so now this is justified......

Nah....but Karma is a bitch & if as you say x did y then x will be screwed for eons eh? So no worries the proof is in the pudding.

Just out of interest do you hold the same view of the International Community when it boards suspected Pirates off Somalia or suspected rogue WOMD shipments anywhere on the high seas ?

Is this the classic "does a tree make a sound if it falls & none is there to hear it" approach?

Sounds like a classic case of avoiding answering a direct question.

Just out of interest do you hold the same view of the International Community when it boards suspected Pirates off Somalia or suspected rogue WOMD shipments anywhere on the high seas ?

Is this the classic "does a tree make a sound if it falls & none is there to hear it" approach?

Sounds like a classic case of avoiding answering a direct question.

No but you did miss the answer.......again

Ok its grand tours time so Im off...after all these discussions? as always are pre-set & we know where all stand.....have fun & watch out for heat rash from that wool.

Enjoy

Karma? I guess that explains why on one hand you have Muslim extremists blowing up people around the world (New York, DC, London, Madrid, Bali, Iraq, Afghanistan, India, etc, etc) and on the other hand the Muslim people are enduring more suffering than anyone should have to go through (Palestinians, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, etc, etc).

As for Israel, I don't agree with everything they do. I don't think they should keep building settlements for example. But you can be openly Muslim and go pray in your local mosque in Israel and live to pray another day where as in almost all Muslim countries you can't be openly Jewish and go to the synagogue.

As I heard on the TV today, "If the Palestinians lay down their weapons there will be peace. If the Israelis lay down their weapons they will be slaughtered". Does anyone here dispute that?

I'm not sure that karma is transferable from a culprit to an innocent of the same religion.

I would hope not but it was flying who first brought it up so maybe he feels differently.

I dispute that. If the Palestinians laid down their weapons, there would be none left within a generation because the Israelis would hasten their settlement building and eventually drive all Arabs out of the country.

I actually agree with you here. But I will point out the difference between being driven out of your country and being slaughtered.

Some Israelis deserve to be slaughtered.

Do you feel the same about some Palestinians? Or Kiwis? Or Iraqis?

It was Israel's blockade that the flotilla was making a stand about. The blockade, put in place ostensibly for security, is in fact in place to punish, subjugate, demoralise, and harm the Palestinian civilians.

If that is so, why do their Muslim brothers in Egypt also blockade the Hamas terrorists?

It is not illegal for a state to search a delivery to a hostile entity in international waters and Hamas is certainly hostile. They admit freely in their charter that they are dedicated to destroying the nation of Israel and no if ands or buts about it. The US legally blockaded Germany and Japan during World War 2 and Cuba during the missile crisis and Israel warned these violent activists continually that they would not be allowed to enter their waters.

These activists have claimed over and over again that they did not raise their hands against the soldiers and the mass media keep repeating it, but there is clear video evidence that they violently attacked the soldiers before they had even reached the deck of the ship. They are liars pure and simple and violent liars. The whole purpose of this flotilla was to manipulate the public and they have done just that.

That's nonsense because the video has been aired all over the world (the Israel version....) and everyone knows and has seen that the activists attacked the commandos indeed.

Now that Fox has released the video other media are showing snippets of it as well, but it was available for the first two days after the incident and they ignored it completely. better late than never - I guess.

That's incorrect UG.

You're focusing exclusively on what's happening in the US.

I assure you the video was aired in Europe immediately after it was handed out by Israel. This world isn't only about Fox, Israel and the US you know.

Apart from that it was a video aired and given out by Israel complete with circles, telling the audience how bad these people were, defending themselves, when there's suddenly an attack by commandos in the middle of the night on the Mediterranean at a great distance of the blockade.

ALL the other proof of what happened from video cameras and mobile phones by the activists have NOT been aired, and you know why?

Because all cameras and mobiles were taken by the commandos including other personal belongings and clothes.

You talk about military killed in South Korea but you don't talk about the people killed by the Israelis on that ship; no explanation whatsoever WHY people had to be shot in the heads...

Reports by the returned activists are now coming out that the commandos used excessive violence, also on the other boats. We will see and wait for the reports later of what happened exactly, not just the videos given out by the propaganda machine of the Israeli government and military.

It's nonsense again that the world wasn't outraged by the North Korean torpedo attack.

The whole world is still outraged and the peninsula is on the brink of another war....so don't say here the world isn't.

LaoPo

no explanation whatsoever WHY people had to be shot in the heads...

LaoPo

Can you please give us 1 example where a person had both his heads shot?

..."trying to run a blockade..." ? whilst the (slow) ship was 120 km or 75 miles away from the blockade ?

So you believe the Gaza-bound "freedom flotilla" had no intention of breaking the blockade? Uh-huh.

You anti-Israel people are a hoot.

Koheesti..be careful what you write.

I write what I write and I would have written exactly the same if it would have been another nation or group, attacking an Israeli ship in the middle of the night with so much unnecessary killings.

Be careful and don't you put a sticker on my forehead.

You're dragging this topic into a racist topic.

Be VERY careful !

LaoPo

I'm with Kung <deleted> Panda. This topic is becoming way too emotive and has the chance to turn very nasty.....Two steps back friends and breath, breath.