Tragic Death

[ChiangMaiFun]

I have been there several times, and I repeat, I have never seen fights - but I was not around at 4am usually going about 3. I have seen many fights in Leicester Sq. in London and some of the Police video's in cities in England are horrific - much, much worse than I have seen here - and try watching the video's of Spain, Ibiza etc. - you would not think you were viewing humans - much worse than Spicy. I do agree, though, that they should have more security at the door and not let in those that are obviously totally trashed.

[Loaded]

I have been there several times, and I repeat, I have never seen fights - but I was not around at 4am usually going about 3. I have seen many fights in Leicester Sq. in London and some of the Police video's in cities in England are horrific - much, much worse than I have seen here - and try watching the video's of Spain, Ibiza etc. - you would not think you were viewing humans - much worse than Spicy. I do agree, though, that they should have more security at the door and not let in those that are obviously totally trashed.

I always thought that was an entrance requirement

[femi fan]

I do agree, though, that they should have more security at the door and not let in those that are obviously totally trashed.

No, i can't agree with this. Bouncers and all-pervasive security and laws are symptomatic of western culture and night-times, and one of the great things about thailand is that it tends to police itself over night-time revelry. If one is a westerner visiting or living here, and they are out late drinking alcohol, then they know from personal experience that violence is possible. That it is so rare in thailand is great news, and probably not unlinked to the lack of overbearing security.

Although i don't get out so much these days i've seen about three or four acts of violence at night-time in 19 years. One was in bangkok where loads of thais were battering one person, somewhere in the silom patpong area. The other two were at the old spicy's outdoor place. Thailand is a remarkably safe place to go drinking at night time relative to the countries we all come from. I say an emphatic no to bouncers and ridiculous signs in pubs that say bar staff will refuse to sell alcohol to intoxicated customers, and that they mustn't swear. What on earth is that about?!

[Daewoo]

Depends on the bouncers I guess...

How long before a glassing can you see that a patron is about to cause trouble??? half an hour??? an hour??? usually a long time... how long before violence can you usually see trouble brewing between two groups??? the same??? a good crowd control company will get in early, calms things down or make one party move along... a bad crowd control company creates at atmosphere of hostility and violence, and makes things much worse... and that can quickly turn a thriving business into a ghost town...

[slapout]

Spicy is probably no worse nor better than after hours joints anywhere. Many places in the real world use off duty police, minus the firearm, as security/bouncers, the uniform seems to be a good deterrent. A place that caters to a repeat crowd may have success with a bouncer who is a regular as are the customers, thus recognizable. If there is no control on liquor consumption and the state of individuals, then another potential problem arises. Some establishments have signs that say, weapons must be checked, and a quick pat down is done.

Most of us learn the hazards of after hour joints early in life. Others, sample life in the fast lane later, but learn quickly, (the survivors anyway). Driving past Spicy in the early morning hours a few times, observing the drunks setting on the curb, those trying to stagger somewhere, the ladies/boys of the night who are offering their wares on the footpath, etc I decided to pass a long time ago. If I go to a 4 star restaurant/bar to spend some time, I anticipate the cost of the evening before hand, If I want to visit skid row or a Spicy equivalent, I would do the same.

[getgoin]

Any confirmation from Chiang Mai Mail or another source about this?

There's no confirmation on this, because it bullshit!

I'm wondering about this? Chiang Mai Mail or someone else? In order to really trash a place or its reputation this allegation should be substantiated. I am in no way implying the tragedy of the situation or the OP mentioning of it here are not true. Just the facts.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

yeah like Spicy has a reputation to protect. It's not quite the Hearts of Darkness bar in Phnom Penh but it's already has a dangerous reputation. A lot of thai people are too afraid to ever go there.

I asked a few people on Loh Kroh last night and the gossip network seemed to confirm it but without photo's or news story then I suppose it's still unconfirmed. Lots of things happen in CM that never make the papers however.

[Lizard2010]

My granny says nothing good happens after midnite, ..... well except if your missus is in a good mood.

Thats a good one.

They always have an excuse

[Donnyboy]

Last night there was another tragic death outside Spicy.

A young woman age 27 was stabbed to death, and showed in the motte after am argument inside Spicy developed into a full scale fight outside. The fight involved between 10 and 12 girls and culminated with this tragic end at around PM.

The woman killed was not the type you would usually find in Spicy, she didn't drink, smoke or do any of the other things associated with bar girls. I know this because she was a friend of my wife.

All this have led me to think (a dangerous pastime i admit). I think every farang in CM know what goes on in Spicy and that it has gone on for a long time, the fights etc. But how many of us still go there. Because as long as people go the place will make a lot of money, plenty of it lining the polices pockets and helping them ignore the course of these problems and only deal with the aftermaths.

Personally I stooped going to Spicy over a year ago, because I didn't like the atmosphere and never felt really safe. Now I am doubly happy that I stopped going so as not having contributed with my money to what happens there.

So let me know how often you go to Spicy, and if you agree with me let your friends know and let us try and stop further incidents like the one last night but not being sponsors. If you disagree call me crazy, immoral or whatever you fell like, but keep comments about the deceased sober please.

Hi AndersSn... Just wanna know where and how did you get the info about this event...? And at what time did it happen not that it really matters as such a hideous crime is just so over the top that the time is actually irrelevant. No matter what the reasons may have been to cause this, IT IS TOTALLY HIDEOUS .... Makes me ashamed to see people called HUMANS ..... Dogs don't even do that to each other .... RIP indeed ...

it is a shocking crime, but not isolated to Thailand.

btw Dogs can set upon each other, not often, but it does happen. Theres been a few cases in NZ where pit bulls have set upon other dogs,sometimes killing them. I have read a few cases where the dog(s) have set upon small children

Hi Donnyboy

Don't know about it being isolated to Thailand or not or the whole world for that matter as I've seen worse things happne elsewhere but I do know a few things about dogs and you are wrong on one count and a little bit right on the other

"pit bulls have set upon other dogs" Yes and why ....? Because their inhuman owners ( I know Inhuman is probably not a proper english word so all u English language fanatics out there please lay off ) .... have trained them to become vicious and ferocious and attack each and everyting that comes near their territory and to the kill that too! ... not just fend off BUT KILL!! So you are right there...! To a certain point ...but it is not their nature ... WE have trained them to do that which just proves what we really are ,,,!!!

Attack and kill a child ...Yes, it has happened in many countries and in India where I lived for 20 years it has very sadly happened although not frequently, and always and only near the garbage dumps where the rag pickers go to find things to sell and the dogs go to find food .... the dogs are suddenly faced with a little munchkin rag picker of their height of just a little above it and being starving dogs they look at the kid as only another dog trying to steal their food... see!, they are not intelligent as we are suppose to be ... see the difference ??? So they attack to protect their food...not out of jealousy or ego ... but to SURVIVE !! So although your statement is somewhat correct the correlation isn't !

I also have had in Canada a friend living on a superbly beautiful farm in the country side of Quebec city who had 4 huskies who one day one of them ventured off into the forest around the farm.... most likely to do some hunting as their nature calls for it and obviously didn't find any prey to catch and eat .... Came back to the farm where my friend's 4 year old was playing out side in the snow and well... the Husky saw her as a prey and prounced on her and killed her ..... yikes yeah!!! but my friend came to grips with it many, many years later and realized what real nature is all about and how little WE so called HUMANS know or in fact really care about it .... Just the meir fact of people training pit bulls to become what they are and now have the reputation they have only shows how despicable we can be as humans ... Oye.. ok well time to say Good night

i know we are waay off topic but here is an article from a nz paper, where dogs attacked a child. The dogs were used to having children around. I do understand that most dogs and people too, are products of their environments. To me, its like a loaded gun laying around the house, sure it wont go off if the people have been trained to use and respect it, but it can kill all the same.

we have a toddler, and theres no way i would risk having her anywhere near these types of dogs, trained or not.

My link

[ThailandTommy]

I have heard of a number of fights there and saw one baldy football hooligan type who had been beaten badly - I would not be surprised if he started it though.

Never been and have no desire.

You state that you "saw one baldy hooligan type who had been beaten badly, I would not be surprised if he started it though." Then you go on to say "Never been and have no desire"

Your post begs the questions, what is a baldy hooligan type? Did you see this altercation in your dreams?

[eek]

Rest in Peace. Very sad.

Just an aside..it shouldnt really matter if she was a "good girl" or not, although i understand why the OP mentioned that. No one deserves that to happen to them. Tragic indeed.

[AndersSN]

Any confirmation from Chiang Mai Mail or another source about this?

There's no confirmation on this, because it bullshit!

Please leave your hate mail at the door Just this Friday the poor girl spent the night in my house playing cards with my wife and some friends so show some respect.

How in the world can you even imagine I would make up a story like this? and why? what would I gain?

The story was on the front page of one of the local Thai papers, in Thai of course. I don't read Thai but my wife translated for me. I have also spoken to one of the other girls involved and seen the cuts from the fight on her head.

It happened, maybe not exactly like I desribed it, but as repoted to my by the paper a girl involved. That's good enough for me.

[jayinoz]

I was in there one night, two guys started fighting, security had it under control and took the guys outside. RIP for the poor girl who was stabbed.

I have seen just as bad at Melbourne night clubs and pubs in the wee hours, one Melbourne club I went to had a Airport style metal detector and guards with hand held detector units at the door, but that didnt stop them breaking bottles inside this Melbourne club.

Same- seen it all elsewhere... The last time I was at spicy I had my wallet pinched with 10K bt in it & my cards, licenses, etc plus my fake ray bands. I swear never to go again year after year- yet I am too curious when it comes to seeing if it has changed after so long. So long being approx 6 months, yet been there since Outdoor Spicy and when called Night Illusion. Outdoor spicy moved to Night illusion.

Anyway i deserved to have my stuff pinched after falling prey to my evil curious side.

Many would know u out and about all over town then you say 'What the hel_l'. I marked less than once a month- twice per year.

[wehugheog]

Any confirmation from Chiang Mai Mail or another source about this?

There's no confirmation on this, because it bullshit!

Actually it was a close friend of a close friend of mine. She was in tears telling.

Confirmation enough?

Edited June 8, 2010 by wehugheog

[tom21]

interesting thread. no one goes to spicy yet every one knows what it is like.

[Ulysses G.]

I have heard of a number of fights there and saw one baldy football hooligan type who had been beaten badly - I would not be surprised if he started it though.

Never been and have no desire.

You state that you "saw one baldy hooligan type who had been beaten badly, I would not be surprised if he started it though." Then you go on to say "Never been and have no desire"

Your post begs the questions, what is a baldy hooligan type? Did you see this altercation in your dreams?

Read carefully. I saw the badly beaten baldy after he had been beaten and he told me that it happened at Spicy. That is why I used the words "had been".

Let me guess, a slow day for trolling 'ThailandTommy' ?

[gotlost]

interesting thread. no one goes to spicy yet every one knows what it is like.

If it looks like a shyt house, smells like a shyt house and there are bar flys flying about then it must be a shyt house.

[highonthai]

Been there enough times to know not to go back.

Seen to many things go down there.

Let's face it, just a meat market and a last resort for drunk empty pocket crowd.

But if that's your thing....

[ChiangMaiFun]

I was in there one night, two guys started fighting, security had it under control and took the guys outside. RIP for the poor girl who was stabbed.

I have seen just as bad at Melbourne night clubs and pubs in the wee hours, one Melbourne club I went to had a Airport style metal detector and guards with hand held detector units at the door, but that didnt stop them breaking bottles inside this Melbourne club.

Same- seen it all elsewhere... The last time I was at spicy I had my wallet pinched with 10K bt in it & my cards, licenses, etc plus my fake ray bands. I swear never to go again year after year- yet I am too curious when it comes to seeing if it has changed after so long. So long being approx 6 months, yet been there since Outdoor Spicy and when called Night Illusion. Outdoor spicy moved to Night illusion.

Anyway i deserved to have my stuff pinched after falling prey to my evil curious side.

Many would know u out and about all over town then you say 'What the hel_l'. I marked less than once a month- twice per year.

Golden Rule

Never, Ever - take your wallet or cards with you when you go to anywere - Spicy, Hotshot, Bubble etc.

I take cash in my pocket and have my bike keys on a safety clip on my belt - I take cash and if it ever got stolen (never has touch wood) well... it would not be too bad - with all due respect not a clevr thing to do - common sense - leave it all at home.

Sorry you lost it but I stick to this rule in all the counteries I travel too - make it automatic and stay safe.

[damian5000]

I'm not sure the issue is with Spicy, or ANY night spot still open at 3-4am. It's not the place that causes it, it's drunk idiots after (way) too much too drink.

It's not the drug dealer. It's the drug. Is that the way of it? LOL

[damian5000]

Any confirmation from Chiang Mai Mail or another source about this?

There's no confirmation on this, because it bullshit!

Actually it was a close friend of a close friend of mine. She was in tears telling.

Confirmation enough?

A close friend of a close friend... LOL...I don't believe it. A lady was stabbed to death outside Spicy and there's no news about it at all? Any links? Unless it was kept hushed? Not outside the realm of possibility.

[damian5000]

Coincidentally, the night before this lady was killed (?). A farang got into it with me and the prick DJ smashed a glass over my head (long story short). It sliced through the thick plastic of my cap and caused a little 5 stitch gash. But you should see the cut on the cap. If not for it I'd have a nice 3 or 4 inch gash to the bone across my forehead, face, and possibly left eye.

Edited June 9, 2010 by damian5000

[AndersSN]

A close friend of a close friend... LOL...I don't believe it. A lady was stabbed to death outside Spicy and there's no news about it at all? Any links? Unless it was kept hushed? Not outside the realm of possibility.

As posted earlier it was actually in a Thai paper

[nikster]

yeah like Spicy has a reputation to protect. It's not quite the Hearts of Darkness bar in Phnom Penh but it's already has a dangerous reputation. A lot of thai people are too afraid to ever go there.

Was in HOD only 3 times but it seemed a LOT more civil than Spicy. HOD is just a night club?!

Co-incidentally I was at Spicy last week after a long time of not going, and it seemed worse than before. A desperate meat market and half the people completely wasted. The girls are nuts, and others get nuts once they get there. Aggressive vibe. In hindsight it was that kind of atmosphere where it was just a matter of time before somebody got stabbed. On previous occasions it was just the one late night place, but still OK. I thought I just caught a bad night but with the stabbing, maybe it was just an emerging pattern. I had admittedly heard about girl fighting there but never gave too much credence to it - I guess I just couldn't believe it. Now I do.

They clearly need a few good bouncers. RIP, unknown lady.

Edited June 9, 2010 by nikster

[sarahsbloke]

My friend was out with a Thai reporter asking Qs of an eye witness, their unverified story went like this .......

Allegedly

White guy fighting with Thai guy in Spicey, bottles and glasses

Spread to a group of girls, for some reason, small Laos girl is knifed and dies on the spot (maybe she was gf of one of the guys fighting?).

Being an illegal non-person with no ID easier for her to have 'died' outside so body moved (by person or persons unknown).

Edited June 9, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[ChiangMaiFun]

My friend was out with a Thai reporter asking Qs of an eye witness, their unverified story went like this .......

Allegedly

White guy fighting with Thai guy in Spicey, bottles and glasses

Spread to a group of girls, for some reason, small Laos girl is knifed and dies on the spot (maybe she was gf of one of the guys fighting?).

Being an illegal non-person with no ID easier for her to have 'died' outside so body moved (by person or persons unknown).

if true it's is sickening and makes me angry - next Police will say she committed suicide - all of course for a 'contribution' to their pension funds - she was a human being and did not deserve it - whatever the drunken brawl was about.

and?????? mostly because NO security to break up stuff like this st the early stages. I hope those that did this get the full force of Karma on their doorstep - because it's unlikey to get justice here - sadly... RIP

[Donnyboy]

indeed sickening if true

[damian5000]

A close friend of a close friend... LOL...I don't believe it. A lady was stabbed to death outside Spicy and there's no news about it at all? Any links? Unless it was kept hushed? Not outside the realm of possibility.

As posted earlier it was actually in a Thai paper

Ok, photo please? Of paper...Would be great. Don't post crap like this without some sort of source. As far as I'm concerned it's still a rumor. Lot's of people heard about it, but nobody saw it. So, whoever it was that read this story, take a photo and upload it.

Edited June 10, 2010 by eek
Flame comment removed.

[IanForbes]

Any time someone gets murdered it's a tragic event, but certainly not a common one. Recently, In the normally staid city of Victoria BC (Canada) a student was standing waiting for a school bus and a psychotic druggy just went up to the young lad and stabbed him to death. So, I can't draw any conclusions to it being a ground breaking event in front of Spicey... a known hangout for the after hours crowd.

I have been to Spicey many times with friends, but I can't say I enjoy the place and I only go when someone in particular asks me to join her there. It used to be too smoky and my eyes always watered before they banned smoking in that rather unpleasant bar. I never go when I am alone because it smells and the music is too loud and boring. I ride by Spicey many times in the early morning hours and I'm seldom tempted to enter. However, I do understand it's more of a pick-up joint for the bar girls to go if they haven't been successful in the places they work. And, it's more of a younger crowd (20s to 40s gang) I don't fit into that mix very well.

I can't say I ever saw any fights, but then I don't hang around when everyone gets drunk later in the morning.

This picture was taken about 3 years ago just after the bars closed about 2 AM, but before the place REALLY got crowded. There are few places to sit and no place to leave something you don't want stolen.

[slapout]

damian; it seems that the incident(stabbing) may have taken place, by several accounts, granted no eye witness as yet.To call for photo proof and until its produced you will consider the messenger full of crap may be somewhat to the extreme. I did not see you producing a photo of your slashed cap or another referenced eye witness of your version of your encounter, nor did anyone ask for it, as yet