Falang Depression

[jaideeguy]

I've been feeling depressed lately and just suffered with it until a close friend suggested that I may be depressed, so off to 'dr google' and the following are copy and paste of a couple of contributing factors that most likely are the cause of MY depression.

Maybe it is affecting others??

Note the last sentence only in reverse.....with us being the 'outsiders' and emersed in a strange foreign culture that speaks a hard to learn language. I often go for a week or more speaking 'baby English' with my wife and children and have my 92 yr old father with us who can't complete a sentence and haven't left the country for 4 yrs.........no inteligent conversation

"An external event often seems to initiate an episode of depression. Thus, a serious loss, chronic illness, difficult relationship, financial problem, or any unwelcome change in life patterns can trigger a depressive episode. Very often, a combination of genetic, psychological, and environmental factors is involved in the onset of a depressive disorder. Stressors that contribute to the development of depression sometimes affect some groups more than others. For example, minority groups who more often feel impacted by discrimination and are disproportionately represented. Socioeconomically disadvantaged groups have higher rates of depression compared to their advantaged counterparts. Immigrants to the United States may be more vulnerable to developing depression, particularly when isolated by language."

And then there is this blasted heat that makes me want to hide out in my dark air conditioned office during the daylight hours. the following is from a blog, but I can relate to what she is saying................

"SUMMER SAD"

"Most people are familiar with the term SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder), that is quite during the winter months or in climates where it's dark, rainy, and the sun doesn't come out often. For these folks depression lingers through the winter but starts to lift as temperatures climb and the hour of daylight increase.

However there is a disorder called Summer SAD. It affects only about 1% of the population and can be just as crippling as regular SAD. I know - I am one of those. As the temperatures climb and the daylight hours increase I start to feel depressed and agitated. While others are enjoying the outdoors and the warm temperatures, I find myself hiding from the bright glaring sun here in the desert. Unlike the majority of people who enjoy the sun and the heat, with people who have Summer SAD, the bright sun and intense heat can cause depression, agitation, and decreased appetite, and suicidal ideation. For us, the only escape is to hide inside with blackout curtains and wait until the sun goes down. Myself, I can feel the depression and agitation start the moment the sun comes up. Agitation and depression together make for a very unpleasant experience. On days when the sun glares without a cloud in the sky and the temperatures soar, even walking to the mailbox is like trying to life a 100 pound weight.

Summer SAD can affect individuals in any climate, however for us that live in the South, in particular the Southwest desert area, it can be utter agony. The sun shines over 310 days a year here in New Mexico. When you look up information on Albuquerque, you'll see quotes that include "the brilliant sun shines 310 days a year". I want to throw up. Since when is it assumed that the sun is "brilliant" and that clouds are "gloomy"?. I started thinking about that the other day. Since when did we associate glaring sun and intolerable heat with a "nice day", yet associate "cloudy, rainy" days as "gloomy"? As I sit and ponder this I'm looking at the little weather widget at the bottom of my browser shows sunny and 60 degrees. It's only the middle of March. Although the winter months were unseasonably cold, the sun was still out in full force most of those days. Even with the cold and dark sunglasses on I still feel like a bug under a microscope. For many people with Summer SAD like myself, because excess light is a big part of it, we suffer from this year round. And in regards to heat, everyone says that since it's a "dry heat" that it's not so bad. Well I beg to differ. Okay, maybe if you're standing in the shade, but there is NO shade. This is the desert and the only vegetation is scrub brush, cactus, and a few trees planted by man. There is also no water here except for a big man made lake called Elephant Butte which is nothing more than a giant mudhole.

Do I sound negative? You bet your bottom dollar I am. I have already lost about two hours of my precious darkness and it's only going to get worse, especially after this ridiculous Daylight Savings Time tradition thtat should have been done away with a hundred years ago.

So for myself and all of us others living in the Southwest, all we ask is one thing - please do not EVER say "isn't it a beautiful day", just because the sun is shining.

Many have asked, isn't there some way to learn to just deal with the constant sun? Perhaps an anti-depressant? The answer is NO, it's not just something you can get over. All we can do is try our best to cope by staying the hel_l out of the sun and get blackout shades. And many, like myself opt to stay up until dawn and sleep until 1 or 2pm in the afternoon. Most people accuse us of "sleeping the day away", well my question to them is "why are you sleeping the beautiful night away"?

The best and ONLY solution to this problem? Move the hel_l out of the desert and to a climate that at least equal amounts of sunny days and cloudy days. Or better yet, somewhere that is notorious for being "dark and gloomy" (here we go with the assumptions). My choice:

The UNITED KINGDOM!!! "

that may be a drastic change, but a few trips up to higher elevations [1,000mtrs] have proven to be a very refreshing break from the hot, cloudless, bright, dry valley that I live in. No headaches, disiness, energy level up, and less complaining.

[samuibeachcomber]

Real or imagined depression can be quite debilitating and working out the underlying causes can take some time to figure out.I can concur about the weather though,whether in a dark rainy climate or a hot one.In thailand right now its too hot for most of us,so what to do(as it goes on for 5 months or more)

Have made my bedroom nice and dark and by about 2p.m.i've the air con on for a read and a sleep till after 5p.m.When a cooler day comes along i take advantage and get out and do things i otherwise cannot do.

[garyh]

Why don't you go to the pub once a week, a few hours talking English and bitching about all that is wrong in life might be the outlet you need.

[actiondell4]

i FOUND it difficult to understand the OP post because he went round in circles ,but it seems you may be suffering depression due to limited social activities and boredom.

As suggested why dont you get out more and meet people especially other farang.

The only other thing is you may need anti depressant medication if you feel its getting on top of you,for a while.

Maybe a trip away back to the homeland for a while may do you good.

Sleeping all day is really no good unless you are working at night,doing some activities during the day,walking,going to gym and exercise will help.

If you find this is not helping ,then you need to see a Doctor,even a Thai Doctor would probaly have some knowledge of depression,otherwise you could try to find a pyschiatrist who specialises in that type of medication which may assist you.

Some depression is caused by low levels of i think called,Serotonin,and im sure someone that reads thaivisa is a doctor or psych who can correct me on this,but sometimes depression or the blues or as its known "the black dog" can just come and hit us for no reason.

When the "black dog" hits you that bad then its medication time,and maybe seeking the help of a psychiatrist,the only prob with a thai pysch is maybe he will try to get you into a private psych hospital which you dont need unless you are alcohol dependant or suicidal.

Having depression is nothing to be ashamed of.

Last year i even met a guy in his 50 s,who was an expat living on his disability pension in Pattaya,he was actually suffering from depression living in Thailand and told me he sat in his dark rented room most days and cried but didnt really know why.

He was feeling depressed and had come to Thailand/Pattaya seeking a more exciting and happy life but life was becoming depressing.

He told me some days he layed in bed all day in the darkness because it was worth getting up for.

Edited June 12, 2010 by actiondell4

[jaideeguy]

Sorry, but i don't drink or enjoy being around drunken complainers. No offense meant....used to drink and bitch, but dr told me to stop drinking if I wanted to keep my liver....i chose my liver over drink.

I can still bitch like the best even w/o alcohol.

Samuibeachcomber.....That's what I do a lot, but after a while, I get cabin fever and want to get out, but suffer when I do, so the day is spent doing little chores until I break a sweat and escape back to my aircon cave/office.

does anyone else out there suffer from the cultural void of spending too much time around non English speakers????

[lovelomsak]

Good topic I would like to share something here. I have been depressed all my adult life. Everyday except for rare moments I feel depression. No matter what is going on around me I feel depressed and alone. The odd part is I am always depressed about today and tommorrow,but when I look back on my life I see a very full life, lots of travel ,sports,great associates nice properties ,classic cars , women etc. When I look back I see a full life when I face today I feel lacking in something or lost. Depression is so odd.

Maybe there is no answer for you just do what I do look back and see what you have done in your life.

[actiondell4]

Actually the guyi met last year in the bar who was suffering depression was probaly suffering manic depression or permanent depression where his brain serotonin levels were or chemical imbalance was low as he in reality had no reason to be depressed.

I actually felt like a real p....k when a elderly thai woman came to our bar table limping ,trying to sell us flowers and i refused her requests to buy.

When she left i told the depressed guy how i felt sorry for her and at that moment a sad song started playing,i think it was "the rose" by bette midler and then all of a sudden the guy starts crying and i couldnt hold it any further and spat my beer out in laughter.

I felt really bad afterwards but crying for no reason is a sign of real mental illness which should be treated with medication.

[mahtin]

In conclusion, high amounts of sun exposure do not ensure what is currently accepted as vitamin D adequacy.

http://www.grc.com/health/pdf/Low_Vitamin_D_Status_Despite_Abundant_Sun_Exposure.pdf

[actiondell4]

I wonder how many bar owners are having to be ametuer psychiatrists especially in expat places such as Pattaya.

You must be a lot of people with mental ilness being a bar owner,and hear some depressive stories.

But alcohol only makes it worser.Still theres vitamin B in beer which is supposed to help depression.

[NanaFoods]

Samuibeachcomber.....That's what I do a lot, but after a while, I get cabin fever and want to get out, but suffer when I do, so the day is spent doing little chores until I break a sweat and escape back to my aircon cave/office.

Could be the recent hot weather.

I find myself in the same pattern when it gets hot as in recently.

So I changed up my game plan a bit.

When I feel like my core temp. is uncomfortably too high, instead of hanging out in the A/C room, I take a nice cool soak in the water tank for our shower room. A jacoolzi, if you will. Ours is fully tiled inside and out, so its quite nice. Its 2m long by 1m deep. Not terribly big, but large enough to recline quite comfortably, and deep enough to feel somewhat weightless. Very relaxing. Gets my core temp. to comfortable level really quickly, and remains comfortable for a couple hours after getting out

That, or I'll go for a quick drive and try to get lost in my tambol with the a/c on (using LPG, of course); discover new local areas I hadn't seen.

[quote name=jaideeguy' date='2010-06-12 12:45' timestamp='1276321558'

post='3681520] does anyone else out there suffer from the cultural void of spending too much time around non English speakers????

Sure. There are only a few other farang within an hour of my area.

A couple of those go home (Scandinavia) for 6-months every hot+rainy season here.

One way that I cope is by using SKYPE a lot. I video-call my family and longtime friends back home often.... for free. I SKYPE with other farang acquaintances here, who live outside a convenient driving distance. For those who don't have SKYPE set up, I can still call their land-lines via SKYPE for about 1-baht per minute (have to sign up for a "plan").

I hope this helps.

[rixalex]

I felt really bad afterwards but crying for no reason is a sign of real mental illness which should be treated with medication.

Are you saying that all women should be medicated?

[jaideeguy]

Thanks for moving my OP to the health forum, as I almost posted there, but wanted to get feedback from the general public and I did.

I do appreciate the serious replies in my quest to find peace of mind.......

Seems there is some confusion in my OP, which was to point out 2 [of the many] possible causes of MY depression.

The heat [seasonal affected depression?] and

the cross cultural thing that does catch up with us at some point.

Nothing to do about the heat, except escape from it with AC or a cool dip like chefheat suggested or endure it. But it can be waring on me with a headache at the end of a long day and add to that the feeling of no accomplishment at the end of the day.......I've always been an accomplishment junkie and have no projects going now and can barely maintain my [high maintenance] estate.

The other issue......call it 'cross cultural blues' is a tough one in that I have chosen to live out my years here and am starting to get irritated at the petty little every day agrivations.....mostly language and cultural related. To name a few that seem to be common complaints here on thaivisa: Language difficulties [i'll never learn thai], the 'mai pen rai' attitude, the excessive drinking, the stupidity on the road, the lack of appreciation when you do give kindness, the lack of responsibility/ethics etc...all and more have been covered many times on this forum.

We live with them on a daily basis and have to accept them or go mad and I have been able to live with them for more than 10 yrs, but have recently become more aware of them and irritated more.

Someone suggested a trip back to the 'homeland'.........that has always helped in that i am reminded of why I left and mostly return with a better appreciation, but I have been stuck here for 4 yrs now caregiving my 92 yr old father and I have not only a high maintenance estate, but a high maintenance Thai family and every time I take a 1 or 2 day trip, all kind of things go wrong.

To most....a trip to the pub is the answer to all ills, but I've been there-done that and am now bored by that and i need my liver.

And seeing a Thai doctor about anything mental or cross cultural....forget it!! They don't understand to begin with and to not loose face and admit it they'll rx me into a vegetable.

I will work this thing out with 'dr google' and 'dr skype', and 'dr thaivisa'

as they are the most knowledgable and sane friends that I have.

[Sheryl]

As can be seen from the various replies there are many different types of depression and different factors that can contribute.

In the OP's case, social isolation is clearly a factor. In addition, he is caring for an elderly father with Alzheimer's and "caretaker fatigue" is a very real and common problem in that circumstance.

It can be a vicious circle in that when one is depressed, the last thing one feels like doing is making a trip or otherwise arranging a get-together, yet the more one does not do that the more isolated and hence depressed one becomes.

JaiDeeGuy, like you I live out in the boondocks with no other farang nearby, so I do appreciate what that is like and that under those circumstances something as simple as an evening with farang friends requires considerable effort and travel.

Still, you need to make that effort, for your own well being and that of those dependent on you. Plan a day or weekend away from home in the company of friends even if it means a long trip to get there, and do things like that periodically.

You might also like to consider seeing a (Western) therapist, even if you can only swing it once or twice a month due to distance it is better than nothing and the chance to talk through your feelings with a trained person from our own culture can be invaluable.

A local doctor (psychiatrist or GP) is probably just going to reach for the prescription pad, and put you on an SSRI, which you can also put yourself on -- but if so, do read up first on the contraindications and side effects and have a baseline liver function test. (Even if you go to a doctor, odds are you will still have to do all that yourself). However if drugs are needed and usual frontline drugs either don't work or can't be tolerated then the advise of an experienced psychiatrist can be helpful in finding appropriate drug and dose.

In my experience what usually works best is a combination of both drugs and therapy...and of course whatever life style changes are needed, in your case one that reduces your isolation. but it often helps to have the support of a therapist in figuring out how to make those changes, and if one is severely depressed it may need a pharmacological lifting of the mood to get up the energy to get to a therapist in the first place.....

Don't let it drag on too long, JaiDeeGuy. The mind conditions itself and depression tends to beget more depression....making it harder and harder to dig yourself on out.

[jaideeguy]

Thanks for your input again Sheryl.....as usual, it is informed and direct.

FYI, last week I went in for my routine liver checkup for my hepC and the numbers were good and ultrasound was better and I bounced my depresion symptoms off my GP who is a decent GP by Thai standards and he suggested that I just wait out the heat before taking any meds. Sounded like conservative advise from a Thai Dr and the rainy season is almost here.

We had a cool morning and I was able to accomplish a few of the many chores that have backed up and now feel that wonderful feeling of accomplishment again.

Don't worry, I have no suicidal thoughts......but I do have this urge to just 'runaway' from it all some times, but it passes [so far].

Re: western therapy here in northern LOS.....I did that chase a year ago on my father's behalf and the only western therapy I could find up here was Christian based.....no thanks.

Maybe I'll search again if the rains don't chill me out.

I can see the value of socializing with fellow expats, but one of the hardest things here is that most expats drink when they socialize.

Thanks again....I will survive!!

[garyh]

Is there a Farang fishing club? or something along these lines to arrange regular outings with familiar faces?

[sarahsbloke]

My pals and I have solved the problem.

We go into CM about 3 times a week (20km), meet in a bar at 10am, drink tea (30bht), play pool and talk <deleted> all morning. (sometimes iced soda water if the weathers hot)

Then off to an air conditioned coffee shop for Latte and lunch (80bht)

If we have any energy left we finish in the shopping mall, looking at girls legs ..............

No beer required at all!

[ukrules]

I hate the heat almost as much as I hate the cold. I do find that by spending a few months at a time in Bangkok that my tolerance for hot days has increased to the point when we have a 'hot' day in the UK I don't eve notice it anymore whereas before I would main ilke hel_l when it got to about 80+ degrees Fahrenheit.

[garyh]

Probably a silly question but do you have a dog? They are great company.

[NanaFoods]

I can see the value of socializing with fellow expats, but one of the hardest things here is that most expats drink when they socialize.

I, for one, don't

(not as a habit, anyway)

BTW - I had a problem with not getting enough salt in my diet when first exposed to a hotter climate than I was accustomed to. I felt lethargic and depressed. Had my blood tested, and to my surprise, not enough potassium and sodium. I was told to immediately go out and eat a banana (potassium) and some salty fries. Maybe not your case, but it might be worth checking.

Edited June 13, 2010 by ChefHeat

[djlest]

i like many completely understand this isolated depression...

i would say for myself its due to the following

frustration (can never seem to go forward and get things done here, always need a thai with you and very rarely feel in control)

lack of communication with those with the same outlooks and goals (sure TV has many intelligent interesting people, but its not reality and no one for miles here)

isolation (to communicate we become simple minded, talk about food, shopping, weather, but isolate ourselves with a boring existence)

heat and the inability to get things done (walking upstairs requires a shower and hammering some nails will require 2 litres of water replenishment)

lack of support (despite the smile from your partner - u are talking to a wall who just doesnt know where or what we are all about)

no dreams (Thais have very few dreams or ambitions - eventually we become what we live with, they wont support our dreams unless financially based)

no direction (we always dreamed of escaping and living in tropical paradise - but what happens when u achieve it? where next?)

getting older - with fewer friends - and our family back home (usually we leave things behind or eventually we have nothing left back home)

few options to exert ones creative powers or energy (painting, musical nights, dancing, hiking, woodwork, carving, theatre, opera, meeting others with interesting minds)

drunken bouts (With a good % of our farang neighbours not being healthy for us to hang with - at least not for anything productive)

so when things reach this outlook and negativity - its obvious that things are very much out of balance...

to fix them will require each problem to be addressed separately...

perhaps keeping a private journal of your feelings and things like the above written down will help?

Perhaps attacking each issue and finding a solution within the journal will also help

here would be (in an ideal world - the solutions to the above)

frustration (The need for better friends who understand you and can help you when you need to get something done, preferably without payment) )

lack of communication with those with the same outlooks and goals (Same as Above)

isolation (Same as Above)

heat and the inability to get things done (Get up earlier 4am to achieve chores at a cooler temp)

lack of support (Same as above)

no dreams (Share with western friends living in los - same as above)

no direction (Where next indeed? perhaps finding inner happiness would be a good direction to look next)

getting older - with fewer friends - and our family back home (Exactly, friends are necessary and again same as above)

few options to exert ones creative powers or energy (painting, musical nights, dancing, hiking, woodwork, carving, theatre, opera, meeting others with interesting minds)

All is possible with a little friendly support and likeminded heads....

drunken bouts (Whilst drinking can be a good outlet for emotions occasionally, its destructive and those involved very rarely have what we need)

just some thoughts down.... it may help paint a bigger picture...

[jaideeguy]

Great positive post Djlest......you hit the hammer on the nail with some of your observations and is lots of food for thought. Isolation is what we feel the most here and it is a hard rut to get out of if you are living in the sticks and don't hant out in bars any more. I am involved in some volunteer work recently and am contacting more positive expats thru my new project and am getting some satisfaction out of it.

Thanks for sharing.....

[coolhandjoe]

Probably a silly question but do you have a dog? They are great company.

I agree totally, for a number of years a dog was my best friend and exercise buddy.

[kevozman1]

Most people suffer depression due to boredom or just a weakness in character

or just ill self discipline. There are other situations such as a tragedy or poor health

but I think most people can avoid depression with a will of being a stronger person.

Hobbies, a goal in life or even a fitness regime can help immensely.

Not being a fool here might be only 26 but I have been through some shit.. I came to a

point in my life where I was a mess, but I knew I had to soldier up, be positive and not

be a wimp. My daily running and push up routine helped as well

and made me

back into a man. You will also find people respect you more as you show pride and dignity.

[kevozman1]

Just think depression is something that can effect so many people and be the root cause

for many deaths. It does need to be dealt with, and not the American way with some quack

who does not even know you, it needs to come from yourself.

Edited June 13, 2010 by kevozman1

[NanaFoods]

here would be (in an ideal world - the solutions to the above)

frustration (The need for better friends who understand you and can help you when you need to get something done, preferably without payment) )

lack of communication with those with the same outlooks and goals (Same as Above)

isolation (Same as Above)

..............

drunken bouts (Whilst drinking can be a good outlet for emotions occasionally, its destructive and those involved very rarely have what we need)

just some thoughts down.... it may help paint a bigger picture...

Excellent suggestions, djlest.

As I had mentioned earlier, I deal with the isolation issue mostly with skype, and visiting the few farang that live nearby me. Fortunately a few of them have given up drink, so its not just a booze-fest when hanging out.

For the others:

heat and the inability to get things done (Get up earlier 4am to achieve chores at a cooler temp)

Yes!! I do this now - starting this year, prompted by the heatwave and all.

It works!!

lack of support (Same as above)

no dreams (Share with western friends living in los - same as above)

no direction (Where next indeed? perhaps finding inner happiness would be a good direction to look next)

few options to exert ones creative powers or energy (painting, musical nights, dancing, hiking, woodwork, carving, theatre, opera, meeting others with interesting minds)

I tackle all these with one venture - my business. It's something I have always wanted to do, but couldn't back home do market entry costs. I realize a serious business might not be right for a retiree or other folks. So....

Perhaps consider a small, not so demanding service or hobby - preferably one you can do at home in an a/c environment if necessary. Most importantly, something you enjoy!! Something with minimal monetary investment.

I've seen a few farang, retirees, operating bookshops here and there; out of their front room or garage. Clearly not hard work, no commute, and I am sure they love books and reading and consider the whole thing a lot of fun....a hobby. They bought and sold both Thai and foreign used books. These guys all seemed quite happy.

Maybe think along these lines for yourself.

Do something on a small scale that you always wanted to do, but couldn't in your country of origin.

What do you love to do?? What is your dream?

And if it brings a meager income, all the better, as your mate may support it....and you.

Some other ideas:

- Practice, perform, or teach something -- examples might be music, computer related (software/app. services, repairs), dog training, etc.

- Group English classes (private groups in your a/c living room for a small fee, or once a week at the local school - preferably in the cool morning). You don't even need to speak Thai for advanced classes. For the beginners - most likely the regular Thai teacher will translate as needed. In beginner classes, essentially you are there just to guide correct pronunciation, the Thai teacher pretty much directs the class and curriculum. I've done this before, it's kinda fun. Since my time is somewhat limited, I also record some cassette tapes (reading along with their text book) for a teacher to play in class. This was a lot of fun too.

The above are also quite satisfying if you love kids.

- If computer savvy: Start a website (blog or business)

- Write a book (experiences abroad, cookbook, fiction, comedy, - perhaps stay away from the political).

I hope this also helps paint a bigger picture, provide more option, and/or stimulate ideas for you.

[mrtoad]

An interesting thread with some good suggestions.

From what has been posted by the OP, I would imagine a few changes in lifestyle would make a great deal of difference. Any decent mental health clinician will look at the following Diet, Exercise, breathing and sleep as par for the course. Along with that is family and social functioning. However, to be honest the OP needs to keep it simple.

Diet - is often indicated in mood, and it is something that the OP should look at - foods that are high in Trytophans, allow the body to produce Serotonin. There a number of articles on this on the web.

Exercise - again, an important facet in most peoples mental health - people often ignore some of the basics. A regular exercise routine will have several benefit - Increases your energy, increases your self esteem, improves health and body - mentally and physically, a good way also of getting rid of stress and frustration and will allow you to sleep better.

Breathing - again, suggest looking at some form of meditation - breathing is a great way of improving control and relaxation.

Sleep - try to ensure that you are getting adequate sleep - all the previous points will also help you with sleep. Disturbed sleep patterns are often problematic, so if this is a problem for you ensure that you look at some info on good sleep hygiene. Loads of it on the web.

Other than that, you really do need to look at the isolation issue - that is clearly something that is leading you to feel the way that you are at present. As Sheryl mentioned, there is little point going to the Doctors as they are likely to just give you a script for an SSRI and you'll be on your way. The symptoms that you describe are not uncommon, but really more about you needing to make some changes to your lifestyle and the way that you think. Popping a few tablets are not the long term answer, but being a little more proactive will certainly help you.

[mrtoad]

I wonder how many bar owners are having to be ametuer psychiatrists especially in expat places such as Pattaya.

You must be a lot of people with mental ilness being a bar owner,and hear some depressive stories.

But alcohol only makes it worser.Still theres vitamin B in beer which is supposed to help depression.

Oh yes, Alcohol is very rich in Vitamin B - that is why Alcoholics frequently experience multiple vitamin deficiencies. The most unhealthy deficiencies are from folic acid, vitamin C, and from vitamins B1 (thiamin), B2 (riboflavin), and B6 (pyridoxine). Other vitamins which may be deficient in alcoholics are B12, folate, niacin, vitamins D, and vitamin K. There are a number of reasons why this is the case, but to suggest that Beer is rich in Vitamin B, when you obviously fail to understand that Alcohol is often a cause for deficiencies in Vitamin B1, B2 AND b6 B12, which are indicated Vitamins from the B family that has been suggested to have benefits in treating depression is ridiculous.

Would help that some people sort of think a bit before posting.

[actiondell4]

Vitamin B does help depression,i can assure you,it does for me.

I take more than 2 tabs a day,which makes my urine yellow but calms me down,i feel less stressed/anxious.

If you look in the ingredients for vitamins that treat stress,you will always see Vitamin B group vitamins in there ,just like in Berocca etc.

[mrtoad]

Vitamin B does help depression,i can assure you,it does for me.

I take more than 2 tabs a day,which makes my urine yellow but calms me down,i feel less stressed/anxious.

If you look in the ingredients for vitamins that treat stress,you will always see Vitamin B group vitamins in there ,just like in Berocca etc.

Err yes, where did I post saying it didn't?

However, what I stated was that Beer / alcohol is not really a suitable source - which you sort of insinuated.