Why So Nationalistic?

[MCos]

My wife doesn't know who these people are Nelson Mandella, Kim Jung Il, Mother Theresa, Robert Amsterdam, the Pope, etc. She doesn't know in which country New York & San Francisco are located. She can't tell the difference between baseball & cricket, but she knows who the All Blacks are and that'll do me!!

[hansum]

This thread really is beyond asinine. The OP makes the absurd claim that Thai's are nationalistic with not one iota of proof.

Is playing the national anthem twice daily not even a little nationalistic.

Only if every Thai stops what they're doing and stands at attention twice a day. You're engaging in what I would call "grasping at straws." Don't try to find something that's not there.

What you mean that when i hear the national anthem play its not really happening, and all the people that stop and stand still that i see are actually still moving and im imagining it all.

NOw im aware this is a pain in the a$$ for most Thais but it certainly is meant to bring about some kind of nationalistic feeling.

Ive never called anyone apologist before but you are without doubt Thaivisa's no.1.

[hansum]

My wife doesn't know who these people are Nelson Mandella, Kim Jung Il, Mother Theresa, Robert Amsterdam, the Pope, etc. She doesn't know in which country New York & San Francisco are located. She can't tell the difference between baseball & cricket, but she knows who the All Blacks are and that'll do me!!

Shouldnt have married an American then.

Not sure how Robert Amsterdam makes that list though.

[Berkshire]

This thread really is beyond asinine. The OP makes the absurd claim that Thai's are nationalistic with not one iota of proof.

Is playing the national anthem twice daily not even a little nationalistic.

Only if every Thai stops what they're doing and stands at attention twice a day. You're engaging in what I would call "grasping at straws." Don't try to find something that's not there.

What you mean that when i hear the national anthem play its not really happening, and all the people that stop and stand still that i see are actually still moving and im imagining it all.

NOw im aware this is a pain in the a$ for most Thais but it certainly is meant to bring about some kind of nationalistic feeling.

Ive never called anyone apologist before but you are without doubt Thaivisa's no.1.

Well it's great to be recognized as No. 1 for something! But seriously, even if every Thai were to stop and stand at attention every time the national anthem was playing (which is obviously not occurring), how could you be so sure that it's nationalism? Can't it be patriotism? And what is wrong with patriotism? You and the OP are trying to place a label on Thai's that are just not true. I can as easily say that Americans are nationalistic and find several dozen examples. Yet, most Americans would probably say that they're more patriotic than nationalistic.

[cdnvic]

Troll post and it's (apt) reply deleted. Don`t start a fight here by insulting other members.

[asiawatcher]

They have probably given up on trying to attract tourist from offshore. Typical TAT.

[elkangorito]

Nationalism in any country, results from FEAR!!

In most cases, it's a fear of any kind of change.

This is what LAW (& Culture) propogates...a society that has no responsibility. It's easier to 'follow a law' (or a Culture) than to deal with 'change' & think for yourself.

If 'The State' provides you with answers to everything (law & culture), why would you bother to think for yourself? It's obviously easier to 'go with the flow' & never question anything.

Who benefits from a lazy & non-thinking society?

Edited June 25, 2010 by elkangorito

[pzoom]

It seems like Thailand is basically playing visitors and expats for mugs. Its like they

are saying "come to our country, spend lots of money, but you will never be accepted

or have any rights no matter what you do for us or how long you stay".

That's absolutely not true! As a Thai, I would say we treat foreigners-in particular,westerners- better than Thai ourselves. For instance, you know how wild the traffic in Bangkok is but most car drivers always stop for foreigners to cross the roads while Thai people have to struggle for the way. Or even during Tsunami, cares were more for foreiners and that has nothing to do with MONEY.

Actually I think it is also worth mentioning Isaan women as a major player

in contributing towards Thailand's economy.

On the contrary, classic joke from foreigners about Pattaya or as quoted above do annoy us. If your perceptions start from there no wonder why you think just throwing money to Thais, you have to be well-treated. There's nothing wrong with tPattaya or Isann girls but there's a lot more in Thailand than just that. We;ve always heard somthing like this and eventhogh you said you have Thai girlfriend, I think you know very limited and only some parts of Thais.

You do not have to do anything for us because,naturally, Thais do admire foreigners and we think it's very cutie to see them try to speak Thai a bit or try to know our ways of life and that is what we expect . But acting superiors ,as you think you are , is another story and that will never get respect from Thais.

Edited June 26, 2010 by pzoom

[Heng]

Who benefits from a lazy & non-thinking society?

Those who plan a few months, a few years, a few decades into the future, and not just what they are going to eat or drink today and what lotto plays they are going to go with so that they might 'better' their lives.

Same as anywhere else.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Heng

[cdnvic]

That's absolutely not true! As a Thai, I would say we treat foreigners-in particular,westerners- better than Thai ourselves. For instance, you know how wild the traffic in Bangkok is but most car drivers always stop for foreigners to cross the roads while Thai people have to struggle for the way. Or even during Tsunami, cares were more for foreiners and that has nothing to do with MONEY.

True. I can recall people reporting how there were many Thais helping tourists call home on their (the Thais') phones to tell their relatives they were ok, and many locals sheltering tourists in their own homes after their hotels had been flattened. When a disaster hits, humans are humans.

[upinthesky]

If you have a lot of money, you are more welcome here. This is what I feel. Thailand nationalistic? Comon' more money-listic I would say.

[cdnvic]

If you have a lot of money, you are more welcome here. This is what I feel. Thailand nationalistic? Comon' more money-listic I would say.

Goes for just about anywhere in the world. Nothing new.

[slapout]

The question as presented should probably be addressed to the general Thai population. I have not noticed any difference of degree of commitment of Thais vs other countries where I have lived or visited. We could arrange the importance we think Thais place on a few items, and what we perceive as their commitment to each and see where nationalism would fall.

Money, Food, Family, Country, Religion

[Briggsy]

Every East Asian nation has similar views on nationalism, pseudo-ethnic purity, xenophobia, economic protectionism & myths about other races (sometimes eating children).

It is connected to the hierarchical nature of these societies and the entrenchment of power in the hands of a few.

The world is in a period of transition regarding migration on previously unheard of levels and globalisation. Currently the West and the East, if you like, are in very different political places regarding these issues. What the next 50 years or more will bring is very hard to predict.

[roamer]

That's absolutely not true! As a Thai, I would say we treat foreigners-in particular,westerners- better than Thai ourselves. For instance, you know how wild the traffic in Bangkok is but most car drivers always stop for foreigners to cross the roads while Thai people have to struggle for the way. Or even during Tsunami, cares were more for foreiners and that has nothing to do with MONEY.

True. I can recall people reporting how there were many Thais helping tourists call home on their (the Thais') phones to tell their relatives they were ok, and many locals sheltering tourists in their own homes after their hotels had been flattened. When a disaster hits, humans are humans.

And there was me thinking that they tried to avoid hitting Farang's due to the aggravation involved.

[thaibkk]

let us be honest, i do not think that hookers and pimps are part of the statistics....

many hookers are slightly forced to sell their body to support their family in the poor north-east

many farang come here for the cheap women and luke-warm beer

close all illegal prostitution and i guess 'tourist' numbers will drop even more and all those poor bargirls will have to find another 'day'job to scam farang or fleece each other

6-9% of gross taxable income

95% of black business ?

[Heng]

95% of black business ?

I doubt that foreigners are involved in 95% of the underworld here.

They affect a % of one portion of the black economy. Feel free to argue whether most of that portion is directed towards locals (and Asians in general if you want to draw a line between western tourism and Asian tourism) or foreigners. Have heard and seen these arguments before, it typically boils down to something like 'well we're still better at paying more for used second hand goods that wouldn't have sold anyway. Give us credit for that, dammit.'

Yes, used cars is a dirty business.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Heng

[Pakboong]

The percent should be for sure doubled due to the huge underground economy fueled by tourists (prostitution, tax evasion, etc). I can see here in KPG that most of the small, medium and some of the big tourist-related business pay peanuts as tax

I agree, and wonder whether all the transfer wires from Westerners to their tee-ruks in Thailand are included in the figure of 6%. Also, how about foreigners' expenditure on prostitution: in order to be included in the official figure, the money would have to be declared by the pros.., erm service girls and then taxed by the government, right? How often does that actually happen??

The minimum taxable income is 150,000 baht a year. Over 12,000 baht per month. I would say that less than 20% of ethnic Thais meet that standard in a "measurable" way. It must therefore be by design that the controlling ethnic Chinese minority wants it that way. Nothing happens here, that is not wanted by the ethnic Chinese minority who were tourists themselves not that long ago.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Pakboong

[Pakboong]

Nationalism in any country, results from FEAR!!

In most cases, it's a fear of any kind of change.

This is what LAW (& Culture) propogates...a society that has no responsibility. It's easier to 'follow a law' (or a Culture) than to deal with 'change' & think for yourself.

If 'The State' provides you with answers to everything (law & culture), why would you bother to think for yourself? It's obviously easier to 'go with the flow' & never question anything.

Who benefits from a lazy & non-thinking society?

In this particular case, clearly the Chinese minority benifit from a lazy and non-thinking Thai society.

[Heng]

The secret is out... it's in the rice (well that likely hundreds of other dietary and cultural issues).

Cultures such as the Khmer, Lao, Issanites, etc. that eat sticky rice as a staple (which takes longer and is more difficult to digest) are going to develop slower. More body resources required to convert food to energy. Less energy available for the brain to use. Multiply this over generations and it means you'll have entire groups more likely to use their bodies rather than their brains to generate wealth. Traditional long grain rice is more efficiently (like the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese in general) digested.

So next time you see a country person hand packing their kao nieo rice into a little ball over a meal of roast chicken and som tam, be sure to knock it out of their hands. Tell them it's for their own good.

[hamishgillan]

that's incorrect i recently became aware that you can become a thai citizen with a permanent resident visa first if you can speak Thai well enough same as England.......

http://www.thaivisa....idence-process/

http://www.thaivisa....ip-application/

at least i think this is true

Edited June 27, 2010 by hamishgillan

[Pakboong]

The secret is out... it's in the rice (well that likely hundreds of other dietary and cultural issues).

Cultures such as the Khmer, Lao, Issanites, etc. that eat sticky rice as a staple (which takes longer and is more difficult to digest) are going to develop slower. More body resources required to convert food to energy. Less energy available for the brain to use. Multiply this over generations and it means you'll have entire groups more likely to use their bodies rather than their brains to generate wealth. Traditional long grain rice is more efficiently (like the Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese in general) digested.

So next time you see a country person hand packing their kao nieo rice into a little ball over a meal of roast chicken and som tam, be sure to knock it out of their hands. Tell them it's for their own good.

When you can hide something in plain sight, it makes it all the more rewarding. You must laugh yourself all the way to the bank each day. I do envy your situation.

[james24]

Does anybody find Thailand's very nationalistic views and ways strange considering

they do rely quite heavily upon foriegn tourists entering their county.

Tourism accounts for around 6% of Thailand's GDP, so maybe not relying on tourism as heavily as you might think.

You know that figure is complete and utter rubbish!!!!

That really is only taking into account what the big wigs at the top want to. If Thailand admitted that a good percentage relies on tourism and foreign companies employing their people what power would the so called high so's have over its people.

6 per cent my arse

[Heng]

When you can hide something in plain sight, it makes it all the more rewarding. You must laugh yourself all the way to the bank each day. I do envy your situation.

I do find myself laughing quite a bit. They say it's good for you.

I disagree that anyone is hiding anything though. I think you'll find that a good majority of folks succeed or fail because their own nature. As natural as what they like or dislike eating or drinking.

[cdnvic]

Some comments are coming very close to violating:

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

Please bear this in mind.

[Pakboong]

When you can hide something in plain sight, it makes it all the more rewarding. You must laugh yourself all the way to the bank each day. I do envy your situation.

I do find myself laughing quite a bit. They say it's good for you.

I disagree that anyone is hiding anything though. I think you'll find that a good majority of folks succeed or fail because their own nature. As natural as what they like or dislike eating or drinking.

When I say it is hidden in plain sight, I simply mean it is obvious to anyone with their eyes open or who chooses to see it but, few do. It is not a negative criticism. It simply escapes me as to how apparent it actually is but is glossed over on almost every occasion. Not mentioning this particular phenomenon is all that is required to hide it. If a group of 14,000,000 expats gain citizenship and buy up all the business worth having and control the total of government it should occasionally get a mention. But, it doesn't. My compliments. PS, I am also a UT alum.

[Heng]

Well thanks for the clari.

Texas fight.

[DP25]

Does anybody find Thailand's very nationalistic views and ways strange considering

they do rely quite heavily upon foriegn tourists entering their county.

Tourism accounts for around 6% of Thailand's GDP, so maybe not relying on tourism as heavily as you might think.

You know that figure is complete and utter rubbish!!!!

That really is only taking into account what the big wigs at the top want to. If Thailand admitted that a good percentage relies on tourism and foreign companies employing their people what power would the so called high so's have over its people.

6 per cent my arse

Read the whole thread. 6% for tourism is very accurate, and like many foreigners here, you are VASTLY overestimating your importance.

[angiud]

95% of black business ?

I doubt that foreigners are involved in 95% of the underworld here.

They affect a % of one portion of the black economy. Feel free to argue whether most of that portion is directed towards locals (and Asians in general if you want to draw a line between western tourism and Asian tourism) or foreigners. Have heard and seen these arguments before, it typically boils down to something like 'well we're still better at paying more for used second hand goods that wouldn't have sold anyway. Give us credit for that, dammit.'

Yes, used cars is a dirty business.

Sorry, in Italy we call black simply when is not tax declared

[bonobo]

I am not so sure why so many posters are adamant that tourism is so much bigger than what has been reported. With an average stay of 9 days and an average expenditure or about $130 per day, that comes out to be somewhat over $16 billion per year. And with a GDP of about 270 billion, that makes it just about 6%.

OK let's take into account the unreported income. Roughly just over half of the foreigners coming into Thailand are males over the age of 18. Let's call it 60%. Of that, how many will take part in the bar scene? I don't know, but of the foreign visitors I have had coming here for business, probably a third of them at least sampled the scene. Probably a higher percentage of single, male tourists on vacation do, though. I think it would be over generous to the bar stats to say that 50% of the men who come to Thailand visit the bars. So let's push the figure and say that 60% of foreign men visit the bar scene. Every day? I doubt it. But let's play devil's advocate and say 75% of the days.

And how much do they spend? Not on food, drink, taxis, and hotels. That is already accounted for in the publishes figures. let's just say on illegal vice. $50? $100?

OK, let's say $100. 14 mil X 60% = 8.4 million foreign men who might visit a bar. 9 days X 75% = 6.75 days of bar visits.

6.75 days X 8.4 million men = 56.7 foreign men bar days. Multiply that by $100, and you have $5.67 billion. Not a small amount, to be sure. But in the context of the total GDP, that only raises the total contribution of foreign visitors to Thailand to a little over 8%. Hardly the "vast understating" that many posters here seem to feel is the case.

Manufacturing is on top here in Thailand. Even though it only employs 14% of the workforce, it generates almost 50% of the GDP. Agriculture employs far more, but produces a smaller percentage of the GDP. Tourism is a vital cog in the equation, but not as vital as some posters seem to think.