I'M About To Buy A Property And The Farang Owner Doesn'T Even Know It'S Being Sold!

[Berkshire]

Its nice to hear the womans side of the story for a change.

Now the farang involved will come onto a forum like this and write a big hit piece on Thai women.

Please read what has been posted Sokal.

The 2 boyfriends relate to someone else - not the OP.

Your orange-tinted glasses are obviously affecting your vision

Eh, Mr. Cardholder, I think you missed his point. He was being sarcastic in implying that the "man's side of the story" always seems to take center stage at some point, at which time, the Thai women bashing will begin in full force. And it's already started with the mentioning of the 2 boyfriends by another TV member (not the OP).

To sokal, it appears you are correct. TV members can be so predictable.

[PattayaParent]

If the Thai lady's name is on the Chanote than it's hers to sell.

I'm not disputing the fact that she can sell the land if she owns it. There have been cases where guys have removed a house and all posessions from land owned by scheming ex wives. Much to the ex's disappointment they found they could not stop the guy from doing this as he had proof of purchase for his posessions - the house and it's contents.

It seems that if you buy enough blocks, timber, etc to build a house the ownership of these items doesn't transfer to the land owner merely because you put them together on someone elses land. They still belong to the purchaser and as such have nothing to do with land ownership.

Clearer now ?

It's never been unclear to me, as I said if it's in her name it's hers to sell.

If it's in his name she's stuffed.

[Dakhar]

If the Thai lady's name is on the Chanote than it's hers to sell.

I'm not disputing the fact that she can sell the land if she owns it. There have been cases where guys have removed a house and all posessions from land owned by scheming ex wives. Much to the ex's disappointment they found they could not stop the guy from doing this as he had proof of purchase for his posessions - the house and it's contents.

It seems that if you buy enough blocks, timber, etc to build a house the ownership of these items doesn't transfer to the land owner merely because you put them together on someone elses land. They still belong to the purchaser and as such have nothing to do with land ownership.

Clearer now ?

It's never been unclear to me, as I said if it's in her name it's hers to sell.

If it's in his name she's stuffed.

If they are married and the marriage is a registered marriage.... then even if the house is in her name, if the house was aquired while married, he has 50% equity of the house.

The spouse has no legal claim to the land, but he does to the equity.

As said before.... "I smell a rat."

Secondly, technically speaking, if they are married, I believe he has "signature" rights, meaning that he has to sign a document that allows the sell of the house. If he does not sign, she can not sell.... that said, I have been told this document is often times "over looked." TIT

Any takers on a 7.7 Million house on Ramkhamhaeng Road near Amway. Im willing to take 7 Million, buyer pays all taxes?????

[OxfordWill]

As you`ll be buying the house under the same principles as the other farang did I hope what goes around comes around and then we`ll see if your so smug.

+1

[scorecard]

I'd watch your step here, if the guy returns with a bunch of receipts for the house or contents you might find that she didn't own anything apart from the land in the first place which would probably nullify the sale as it wasn't hers to sell.

I doubt she will make this mistake again assuming you don't take the risk and purchase it.

Agree, maybe the house is not her property, that is possible. If this is the case and you buy it (along with the land), then you are possibly in one of two (or both) situations:

- You are the buyer of stolen property, which can bring punishment by the law.

- Required by law to relinquish the property back to it's rightfull owner, because the seller had no right to sell it in the first place. In other words the sale is cancelled and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you tried to fight this legally.

You really want to get involved?

[Huey]

On a Legal note; Yeah just get the lawyer, a good one, to go over the details and you should be fine.

On a Personal note that is kinda shady. Though I'm not surprised coming from such a fervent red shirt sympathiser.

[PattayaParent]

If the Thai lady's name is on the Chanote than it's hers to sell.

I'm not disputing the fact that she can sell the land if she owns it. There have been cases where guys have removed a house and all posessions from land owned by scheming ex wives. Much to the ex's disappointment they found they could not stop the guy from doing this as he had proof of purchase for his posessions - the house and it's contents.

It seems that if you buy enough blocks, timber, etc to build a house the ownership of these items doesn't transfer to the land owner merely because you put them together on someone elses land. They still belong to the purchaser and as such have nothing to do with land ownership.

Clearer now ?

It's never been unclear to me, as I said if it's in her name it's hers to sell.

If it's in his name she's stuffed.

If they are married and the marriage is a registered marriage.... then even if the house is in her name, if the house was aquired while married, he has 50% equity of the house.

The spouse has no legal claim to the land, but he does to the equity.

As said before.... "I smell a rat."

Secondly, technically speaking, if they are married, I believe he has "signature" rights, meaning that he has to sign a document that allows the sell of the house. If he does not sign, she can not sell.... that said, I have been told this document is often times "over looked." TIT

Any takers on a 7.7 Million house on Ramkhamhaeng Road near Amway. Im willing to take 7 Million, buyer pays all taxes?????

If you read the OP the lady claims the Farang to be her boyfriend, so no 50% equity in the house there.

And second I beleive it's customary for the Land Office to require a Farang married to a Thai lady to sign a declaration that the money used to purchase the house is not his and he has no interest in the equity of the house. Sort of stuffs the 50% again I guess.

Never heard of signature rights in Thailand although it is the system used in Viet Nam.

[PattayaParent]

I'd watch your step here, if the guy returns with a bunch of receipts for the house or contents you might find that she didn't own anything apart from the land in the first place which would probably nullify the sale as it wasn't hers to sell.

I doubt she will make this mistake again assuming you don't take the risk and purchase it.

Agree, maybe the house is not her property, that is possible. If this is the case and you buy it (along with the land), then you are possibly in one of two (or both) situations:

- You are the buyer of stolen property, which can bring punishment by the law.

- Required by law to relinquish the property back to it's rightfull owner, because the seller had no right to sell it in the first place. In other words the sale is cancelled and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you tried to fight this legally.

You really want to get involved?

If the lady owns the land but not the house then the sale of the land to the OP would be legal, and if the house were to revert back to it's 'rightful owner' then the OP would either be able to make him an offer for it, or ask him to remove the house from his land

But anyway, if she is not the owner this will be clear from the deeds and it should never get as far as these hypothetical scenarios.

I suggest the OP, or his wife, or his solicitor, check out the ownership papers of land and house.

[Kan Win]

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Good luck to Holland - i think a Holland vs Spain final would be very entertaining.

V

[steelepulse]

>>I beleive it's customary for the Land Office to require a Farang married to a Thai lady to sign a declaration that the money used to purchase the house is not his and he has no interest in the equity of the house. Sort of stuffs the 50% again I guess.

That's not correct. It's about the land the the foreign spouse has to sign that the money came from the Thai person for the purchase of the land.The house can be a completely different entity falling under a 30 year lease, or one of those leases that you get the right to use the house until you die.

Edited July 7, 2010 by steelepulse

[haveaniceday]

"If the lady owns the land but not the house then the sale of the land to the OP would be legal, and if the house were to revert back to it's 'rightful owner' then the OP would either be able to make him an offer for it, or ask him to remove the house from his land"

A very slight digress, I have meet foreign guys confident tell me that if their Thai wife leaves them, that they are protected as they only spent half million on the land which is in her name and the house is in his name which is worth 2 million. My thinking is, what if she says take the house away. It's good for land fill as most houses are rended brick. You may save the doors, windows, parts of the roof and fittings, but I think you have lost.

[jaideeguy]

I accidentally [unknowingly] bought a house and lot for about half price and then a year later I found that the legal owner [Thai] sold it out from under the absentee falang that stupidly trusted the Thai crook. Had I known the real story then, I would have passed, but when I found out after a year, I had invested several hundred thousand into additions.

Felt sorry for the guy, but we were the legal owners then. What pisses me off is that there are hardly any ethics or regulations in Thai real estate, and the crook got away with it three times to my knowlege.

It gets hard to trust anyone [Thai or falang] in this country when it comes to big money.

[jaideeguy]

"If the lady owns the land but not the house then the sale of the land to the OP would be legal, and if the house were to revert back to it's 'rightful owner' then the OP would either be able to make him an offer for it, or ask him to remove the house from his land"

A very slight digress, I have meet foreign guys confident tell me that if their Thai wife leaves them, that they are protected as they only spent half million on the land which is in her name and the house is in his name which is worth 2 million. My thinking is, what if she says take the house away. It's good for land fill as most houses are rended brick. You may save the doors, windows, parts of the roof and fittings, but I think you have lost.

Then there is the true story where a falang [who owned the house] was going to get it snatched by the X TW and he contacted the police to confirm that it was his house....they said yes....then he hired a backhoe and destroyed the house. Justice for the falang??

[bunnaag]

"If the lady owns the land but not the house then the sale of the land to the OP would be legal, and if the house were to revert back to it's 'rightful owner' then the OP would either be able to make him an offer for it, or ask him to remove the house from his land"

A very slight digress, I have meet foreign guys confident tell me that if their Thai wife leaves them, that they are protected as they only spent half million on the land which is in her name and the house is in his name which is worth 2 million. My thinking is, what if she says take the house away. It's good for land fill as most houses are rended brick. You may save the doors, windows, parts of the roof and fittings, but I think you have lost.

did she give permission to enter the property?

Then there is the true story where a falang [who owned the house] was going to get it snatched by the X TW and he contacted the police to confirm that it was his house....they said yes....then he hired a backhoe and destroyed the house. Justice for the falang??

[evanson]

I'd watch your step here, if the guy returns with a bunch of receipts for the house or contents you might find that she didn't own anything apart from the land in the first place which would probably nullify the sale as it wasn't hers to sell.

I doubt she will make this mistake again assuming you don't take the risk and purchase it.

Agree, maybe the house is not her property, that is possible. If this is the case and you buy it (along with the land), then you are possibly in one of two (or both) situations:

- You are the buyer of stolen property, which can bring punishment by the law.

- Required by law to relinquish the property back to it's rightfull owner, because the seller had no right to sell it in the first place. In other words the sale is cancelled and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you tried to fight this legally.

You really want to get involved?

Ignore the fact you're going to be a tad pissed off with losing your bargain house and take heed of the above advice. You could very well part with a few million baht to have to pay it back to the rightful owner, never to see the woman again. Greed can cloud judgment, and in this country often does. A neighbour of mine was in hospital and a couple of farang had one of the many bent lawyers here fake a power of attorney, almost selling the property several times. The fact that a property was way underpriced should have been fair warning, but you'd be amazed at how many stupid farang were willing to part with a big wad of cash, which of course they would never see, or the 'sellers' again.

As an aside the real owner was assured several times by both lawyer and accountant that no sale could be registered at the Land Office. Yes it was. Twice. No supporting documentation requested to back up power of attorney such as death certificate, hospital cert, nothing. So my advice to those with company registered property is to leave all documentation in separate banks, and send the Chanote overseas.

By the way, farang cannot be registered on a Chanote, only a farang company.

Walk away.

Edited July 8, 2010 by evanson

[bunnaag]

"If the lady owns the land but not the house then the sale of the land to the OP would be legal, and if the house were to revert back to it's 'rightful owner' then the OP would either be able to make him an offer for it, or ask him to remove the house from his land"

A very slight digress, I have meet foreign guys confident tell me that if their Thai wife leaves them, that they are protected as they only spent half million on the land which is in her name and the house is in his name which is worth 2 million. My thinking is, what if she says take the house away. It's good for land fill as most houses are rended brick. You may save the doors, windows, parts of the roof and fittings, but I think you have lost.

did she give permission to enter the property?

Then there is the true story where a falang [who owned the house] was going to get it snatched by the X TW and he contacted the police to confirm that it was his house....they said yes....then he hired a backhoe and destroyed the house. Justice for the falang??

Did she give him permission to enter the property?

[PattayaParent]

I'd watch your step here, if the guy returns with a bunch of receipts for the house or contents you might find that she didn't own anything apart from the land in the first place which would probably nullify the sale as it wasn't hers to sell.

I doubt she will make this mistake again assuming you don't take the risk and purchase it.

Agree, maybe the house is not her property, that is possible. If this is the case and you buy it (along with the land), then you are possibly in one of two (or both) situations:

- You are the buyer of stolen property, which can bring punishment by the law.

- Required by law to relinquish the property back to it's rightfull owner, because the seller had no right to sell it in the first place. In other words the sale is cancelled and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you tried to fight this legally.

You really want to get involved?

Ignore the fact you're going to be a tad pissed off with losing your bargain house and take heed of the above advice. You could very well part with a few million baht to have to pay it back to the rightful owner, never to see the woman again.

Nonsense, just go down to the land office and look at the copy of the ownership papers registered there.

If it's in the lady's name it's hers to sell.

[GuestHouse]

My wife and I bought a house under exactly the circumstances the OP describes, and like the OP predicts turned a nice profit.

Moreover, having bought one place under these circumstances we had two other Thai women offer us houses under similar circumstances.

The owner of a house or land is allowed to sell it - period.

[MyphuketLife]

My wife and I bought a house under exactly the circumstances the OP describes, and like the OP predicts turned a nice profit.

Moreover, having bought one place under these circumstances we had two other Thai women offer us houses under similar circumstances.

The owner of a house or land is allowed to sell it - period.

I hope the same happens to you. Greedy people like you and your wife is whats wrong with Thailand. Forget legal, how about ethics?

[evanson]

My wife and I bought a house under exactly the circumstances the OP describes, and like the OP predicts turned a nice profit.

Moreover, having bought one place under these circumstances we had two other Thai women offer us houses under similar circumstances.

The owner of a house or land is allowed to sell it - period.

I hope the same happens to you. Greedy people like you and your wife is whats wrong with Thailand. Forget legal, how about ethics?

Plus 1

[evanson]

I'd watch your step here, if the guy returns with a bunch of receipts for the house or contents you might find that she didn't own anything apart from the land in the first place which would probably nullify the sale as it wasn't hers to sell.

I doubt she will make this mistake again assuming you don't take the risk and purchase it.

Agree, maybe the house is not her property, that is possible. If this is the case and you buy it (along with the land), then you are possibly in one of two (or both) situations:

- You are the buyer of stolen property, which can bring punishment by the law.

- Required by law to relinquish the property back to it's rightfull owner, because the seller had no right to sell it in the first place. In other words the sale is cancelled and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you tried to fight this legally.

You really want to get involved?

Ignore the fact you're going to be a tad pissed off with losing your bargain house and take heed of the above advice. You could very well part with a few million baht to have to pay it back to the rightful owner, never to see the woman again.

Nonsense, just go down to the land office and look at the copy of the ownership papers registered there.

If it's in the lady's name it's hers to sell.

Hey, 'Nonsense' The OP doesn't yet know who's name is on the Chanote. Why hasn't the 'lady' given sight of the Chanote. First thing that's asked for.

And did you miss the part about the farang couple transferring the ownership of the farang owned company into their own names with a mere Power of Attorney at the Land Office, twice. So they're a reliable source dontchathink? 'Rat' 'Smell'.

[PattayaParent]

Agree, maybe the house is not her property, that is possible. If this is the case and you buy it (along with the land), then you are possibly in one of two (or both) situations:

- You are the buyer of stolen property, which can bring punishment by the law.

- Required by law to relinquish the property back to it's rightfull owner, because the seller had no right to sell it in the first place. In other words the sale is cancelled and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you tried to fight this legally.

You really want to get involved?

Ignore the fact you're going to be a tad pissed off with losing your bargain house and take heed of the above advice. You could very well part with a few million baht to have to pay it back to the rightful owner, never to see the woman again.

Nonsense, just go down to the land office and look at the copy of the ownership papers registered there.

If it's in the lady's name it's hers to sell.

Hey, 'Nonsense' The OP doesn't yet know who's name is on the Chanote. Why hasn't the 'lady' given sight of the Chanote. First thing that's asked for.

And did you miss the part about the farang couple transferring the ownership of the farang owned company into their own names with a mere Power of Attorney at the Land Office, twice. So they're a reliable source dontchathink? 'Rat' 'Smell'.

Well Mr. Smelly Rat, if you read what I posted you'll see I tell the OP (and several times before in fact) to check the ownership at the land office, no need to wait for the lady to produce a chanote that she's not likely to be carrying around with her just on the off chance that she meets someone that might want to buy the house.

And if you also read the OP you might see that it's nothing to do with a Farang owned company being sold by Farangs with POA, so completely off topic.

[CDNinKS]

The owner of a house or land is allowed to sell it - period.

True, but who is the owner of the house? The land is no question owned by a Thai or Thai registered company. People who say that a farangs name can not appear on the Chanote are full of BS. My name appears on the Chanote as having a Usfruct on the land owned by my wife. She can for sure sell the land, it is hers entirely and I have no claim to it and I signed a document attesting to that when it was purchased. But and it is a big BUT, even if she sells the land, the Usfruct stays in place, so you may own the land but you have no right to use it until my usfruct expires.

Now to the house. Houses are not registered at the land office nor do they appear on the chanote. They are separate entities. The Tambian Baan does not prove ownership of the building. Ownership of the building is proven, as posted already, by receipts and payments for materials and labour to construct the building.

So, bottom line, you can legally buy the land from the Thai woman and as long as the Chanote is real and not forged (has happened)and is in her name you will be the owner.....OF THE LAND!!!

The house is another story and I would tread very carefully in that regard. You know the old saying " if it sounds to good to be true....."

Edited July 8, 2010 by CDNinKS

[PattayaParent]

^so when you buy a house from another person you must receive ALL the receipts and payments for materials and labour to construct the building from the seller?

What if he's lost them?

Can he sell you the house and then produce them all and say it's still his?

How do you know it's his to sell if he can't produce all those documents?

[Farma]

<snip>

Now to the house. Houses are not registered at the land office nor do they appear on the chanote. They are separate entities.

Is this true in all situations? A few weeks ago I was present when a building and land were purchased. The chanote only showed the land.

During the ownership transfer the land office added the building onto the chanote.

[Tonto21]

I'd watch your step here, if the guy returns with a bunch of receipts for the house or contents you might find that she didn't own anything apart from the land in the first place which would probably nullify the sale as it wasn't hers to sell.

I doubt she will make this mistake again assuming you don't take the risk and purchase it.

Ukrules is spot on here! A Thai friend owns the land MY house is sat on. Fact is I own the house, every fixtures, fittings, trees and plants on the property. I only lease the land, all legal and documented with the relevant government bodies, I’m not alone. I know lots of non-Thai who have protected there assets. It’s true; some westerners make the most appalling judgment calls with their money. But don’t make a common mistake of thinking all other farang are buffalo! You yourself may be getting set up!!!

Just remember; If the deal seem too good to be true……..It probably is! Only two thing needed to carry out a con/rip off, that’s a greedy and gullibility mark!!! Even if she dose own the property, lock stock and barrel, you will be the one dealing with the returning “Mad Buffalo!”…….Good luck with that.

[PattayaParent]

^and do you just have a fistfull of receipts for bricks and labour or do you have a legal document that says the house is yours?

[Livinginexile]

The owner of a house or land is allowed to sell it - period.

True, but who is the owner of the house? The land is no question owned by a Thai or Thai registered company. People who say that a farangs name can not appear on the Chanote are full of BS. My name appears on the Chanote as having a Usfruct on the land owned by my wife. She can for sure sell the land, it is hers entirely and I have no claim to it and I signed a document attesting to that when it was purchased. But and it is a big BUT, even if she sells the land, the Usfruct stays in place, so you may own the land but you have no right to use it until my usfruct expires.

Now to the house. Houses are not registered at the land office nor do they appear on the chanote. They are separate entities. The Tambian Baan does not prove ownership of the building. Ownership of the building is proven, as posted already, by receipts and payments for materials and labour to construct the building.

So, bottom line, you can legally buy the land from the Thai woman and as long as the Chanote is real and not forged (has happened)and is in her name you will be the owner.....OF THE LAND!!!

The house is another story and I would tread very carefully in that regard. You know the old saying " if it sounds to good to be true....."

My lawyer advised me today that any assets on the land automatically becomes the property of the land owner providing the property title is legitamate. The contract would stipulate "house&land". Any claims by someone with a bunch of receipts in his hands would need to be with the seller, NOT THE BUYER!

Only when the land is leased is the assets deemed as seperate.

This rubbish about the house is seperate to the land title is just that...rubbish. The seller signs a contract for "house&land"

Can you imagine if this was true?

Every land&house ownership transfer in Thailand would be subject to the previous owner making claims for the "house"!

We will go ahead with the purchase when my lawyer has concluded due diligence.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Livinginexile

[Chunky1]

The owner of a house or land is allowed to sell it - period.

True, but who is the owner of the house? The land is no question owned by a Thai or Thai registered company. People who say that a farangs name can not appear on the Chanote are full of BS. My name appears on the Chanote as having a Usfruct on the land owned by my wife. She can for sure sell the land, it is hers entirely and I have no claim to it and I signed a document attesting to that when it was purchased. But and it is a big BUT, even if she sells the land, the Usfruct stays in place, so you may own the land but you have no right to use it until my usfruct expires.

Now to the house. Houses are not registered at the land office nor do they appear on the chanote. They are separate entities. The Tambian Baan does not prove ownership of the building. Ownership of the building is proven, as posted already, by receipts and payments for materials and labour to construct the building.

So, bottom line, you can legally buy the land from the Thai woman and as long as the Chanote is real and not forged (has happened)and is in her name you will be the owner.....OF THE LAND!!!

The house is another story and I would tread very carefully in that regard. You know the old saying " if it sounds to good to be true....."

Very brilliant Thai legal system.. Who owns the house? Well, that is the person with all the receipts, not a legal document. Oh look, Bob has the receipt for the Window pane, so he owns that. Noi has the shower head receipt.

And if the house is built on Nois land, then how does she claim back her land? Does Bob have to "move" the house off of the land?

Is this guy right? Is the Thai legal system that barbaric that ownership of a home is based on receipts for building materials?

[Chunky1]

And let me get this straight, when you purchase a home in Thailand the other person needs to give you all the receipts so that you will now be the owner? What if the ink fades? How do you pass these reciepts down from generation to generation?

Something is not right here people.