Gen. David Petraeus, head of Multinational Forces in Afghanistan, repeated his warning Tuesday that any plans to burn the Muslim holy book -- considered a major offense in the Islamic community -- would jeopardize U.S. military efforts.

But Terry Jones, pastor of the 50-member Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., says not even protests and death threats will deter him. He told MyFoxOrlando.com that he and the church's members feel strongly about their decision to hold the book burning despite being denied a permit from the fire department.

"We understand the general's concerns, we are taking those into consideration," Jones was quoted saying. "We feel it's maybe the right time for America to stand up. How long are we going to bow down? How long are we going to be controlled by the terrorists, by radical Islam?"

On Tuesday, Petraeus said that even rumors of the possibility the church would hold a Koran-burning touched off protests in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Indonesia.

"Images of the burning of a Koran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan -- and around the world -- to inflame public opinion and incite violence," Petraeus said. "Were the actual burning to take place, the safety of our soldiers and civilians would be put in jeopardy and accomplishment of the mission would be made more difficult."

Though the National Association of Evangelicals and the National Council of Churches have denounced the plan to burn the Koran, Jones indicated he had support from other churches around the country. He did not name any, however.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/07/pastor-says-church-deterred-petraeus-warning-koran-burning/

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We need to be able to tell the difference between followers of a religion, and a tiny group of bigoted nuts who claim to have a religion. In addition to this church of 50, there is that other one that is made up of one guy's own extended family which goes around protesting military funerals.

There's some real irony for you. Dove World Outreach??

Jones? Jones??

Wasn't there another Jones who led some weird sect or the other?

Maybe this lot'll go the same way - burn a sect day.

I watched Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN International this morning and Anderson was "interviewing" the good Reverend Jones. I say "interviewing" since it was Anderson at his best/worst. Asking questions then interrupting before his responder could even formulate an answer. Typical attack media much worse than anything on Fox News, by the way.

Anderson's main premise and argument was why the church would go ahead with the Koran burning even after General Petraeus said it could inflame the Islamic extremists even more than they are always inflamed.

I then thought back to all those days a few years ago when the NY Times had the Abu Ghraib photos and all the talk on Anderson's show was about the right of the public to see the photos and hang the threat to our troops or Americans living overseas.

The argument in favor of not burning the Koran is as valid now as was the argument then to not show the photos from Abu Ghraib yet the argument didn't stop the NY Times, CNN and others from splashing the photos around the world.

A two headed horse being ridden by the main stream media it seems.

I watched Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN International this morning and Anderson was "interviewing" the good Reverend Jones. I say "interviewing" since it was Anderson at his best/worst. Asking questions then interrupting before his responder could even formulate an answer. Typical attack media much worse than anything on Fox News, by the way.

Actually, one of my main gripes about Fox's O'Reilly and Hannity is that when they have a guest they disagree with, they'll ask a question and not let the other person get out more than one sentence if that before cutting them off. If I were still in college I'd make a drinking game out of it. A rule of journalism should be that if you are interviewing a real whack job, let him talk as much as he can because he will no doubt make himself look worse than any shouting back at him would.

Anderson's main premise and argument was why the church would go ahead with the Koran burning even after General Petraeus said it could inflame the Islamic extremists even more than they are always inflamed.

I then thought back to all those days a few years ago when the NY Times had the Abu Ghraib photos and all the talk on Anderson's show was about the right of the public to see the photos and hang the threat to our troops or Americans living overseas.

The argument in favor of not burning the Koran is as valid now as was the argument then to not show the photos from Abu Ghraib yet the argument didn't stop the NY Times, CNN and others from splashing the photos around the world.

A two headed horse being ridden by the main stream media it seems.

Wasn't it Newsweek or Time that had a cover story about Koran abuse at Gitmo? They had no problem running it and I think people died in the protests that followed. Oh, and it turned out the stories that the article was based on were made up in the first place.

Anyway, thank God there are only 50 nuts in this church. Maybe some jihadis will sneak into the country and blow them up in a suicide attack. Can't say I'd be too upset by that as long as no one else was hurt in the process. Dirka Dirka! Mohammed Jihad!

In addition to this church of 50, there is that other one that is made up of one guy's own extended family which goes around protesting military funerals.

Fred Phelps at www.godhatesfags.com. Apparently we're to blame for everything

Regardless of Anderson Cooper, their behavior is decidedly unChristlike and for that, far more hypocritical than anything Cooper could say or do IMO

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

-Matthew 7:1-2

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well."

-Matthew 5:38-40

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

-Matthew 7:3-5

"'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?' Jesus replied: '"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself." All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.'"

-Matthew 22:36-40

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you."

-Matthew 7:12

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

-Matthew 6:14-15

need I go on?

where it is true that there are only 50 in the church what the head man said that i had to agree with is, "hey, it is no different than when they burn the bible" hard for me to argue this point. If people get their noses bent out of shape over such things then maybe they need to take a look within. I have a real problem with people who take themselves to seriously. I lived in indo for several yrs and most of the muslims i knew would only look at this as more of the same same religious noise and not take it as an attack on them. my son is an active memeber of the military and he does not regard this type of thing as any more than just another tool for the taliban but he does not see it as impowering them.

sorry 2bl post

I watched Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN International this morning and Anderson was "interviewing" the good Reverend Jones. I say "interviewing" since it was Anderson at his best/worst. Asking questions then interrupting before his responder could even formulate an answer. Typical attack media much worse than anything on Fox News, by the way.

Anderson's main premise and argument was why the church would go ahead with the Koran burning even after General Petraeus said it could inflame the Islamic extremists even more than they are always inflamed.

I then thought back to all those days a few years ago when the NY Times had the Abu Ghraib photos and all the talk on Anderson's show was about the right of the public to see the photos and hang the threat to our troops or Americans living overseas.

The argument in favor of not burning the Koran is as valid now as was the argument then to not show the photos from Abu Ghraib yet the argument didn't stop the NY Times, CNN and others from splashing the photos around the world.

A two headed horse being ridden by the main stream media it seems.

i can't but commend you on your sharp and logical thinking Chuck as well as that of General Petraeus. it is good to know that only islamist extremists are inflamed by the burning of a Qr'an whereas another billion or more Muslims worldwide will think of it as a non-event, will frolick, stuff themselves with goodies and celebrate Eid al-Fitr which starts today (in some countries tomorrow).

This man is drawing more hatred for an act he hasn't committed yet than the perpetrators of mass murder, his yet to be completed act is a purported protest against. Is it just me, or is something wrong here ?

Foolish and stupid he may be, but I really would have more sympathy for his detractors in the West, if they voiced the same indignation publicly, when journalists are beheaded, or women are stoned to death in the name of a competing God.

"limp" = nomen est omen?

SBK:

Thank you for the theology lesson. Now if you will read my post carefully, I do believe you will find I was not supporting the Church in the burning of the Holy Koran.

I was in the Middle East during Abu Ghraib and it was not pleasant. I know from personal experience how the radicals react to something like this. They even went so far as to pull Danish butter and cheeses off the store shelves during the Cartoon War. There was also a radical Islamist that put three rounds from an AK-47 into one of my employees while he sat at his desk so, yes, I had a dog in that fight then. Burning a Koran is trying to put out a fire with gasoline.

However, for your edification, perhaps a few verses from the Koran might be appropriate to help people better understand the mindset of the radical Islamists.

"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" (Qur'an 5:33)

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" (Qur'an 8:12)

"And be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy; if you suffer pain, then surely they (too) suffer pain as you suffer pain..." (Qur'an 4:104)

"If thou comest on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, that haply they may remember." (Qur'an 8:57)

"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them." (Qur'an 9:5)

"And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" (Qur'an 9:30)

Actually it wasn't in response to you at all, but to the hypocrisy of people who claim to be Christian, Regardless of what the Koran says or not, I do know what Christians are supposed to believe and I see very little of that in the hate mongering by some. They should not call themselves Christians.

Actually it wasn't in response to you at all, but to the hypocrisy of people who claim to be Christian, Regardless of what the Koran says or not, I do know what Christians are supposed to believe and I see very little of that in the hate mongering by some. They should not call themselves Christians.

OK.

Had a spasm.

"limp" = nomen est omen?

ad unguem factus homo ( in your own mind )

However, for your edification, perhaps a few verses from the Koran might be appropriate to help people better understand the mindset of the radical Islamists.

that's nothing than polemic Chuck. i can find as many sh*tty writings in both the Old and the New Testament.

next!

it is quite interesting and amusing how some participants try to justify with utmost lame arguments the action of a "christian" extremist which should be condemned without any ifs or buts.

history shows that it starts with burning books and ends with burning human beings. that applied to the time of the inquisition as well as to the nazi-era.

However, for your edification, perhaps a few verses from the Koran might be appropriate to help people better understand the mindset of the radical Islamists.

friendly reminder Chuck. this thread is not about the mindset of radical islamists but about the mindset of a christian radical who intends to burn the copy of a book which is considered "holy" by more than a billion inhabitants of this planet.

it is quite interesting and amusing how some participants try to justify with utmost lame arguments the action of a "christian" extremist which should be condemned without any ifs or buts.

history shows that it starts with burning books and ends with burning human beings. that applied to the time of the inquisition as well as to the nazi-era.

Does not history claim " appeasement" never works as well ?

The guys interviewed on SKY news this morning on the streets of Cairo, to a man said that the foreign embassies will burn and they will stone foreigners in the streets, if the stupid act is carried out. Now I totally agree that the Pastor is a rabid, lunatic. But the actions of the masses in the muslim world, unless they are more circumspect and basically civilised, will prove his arguments.

Actually it wasn't in response to you at all, but to the hypocrisy of people who claim to be Christian, Regardless of what the Koran says or not, I do know what Christians are supposed to believe and I see very little of that in the hate mongering by some. They should not call themselves Christians.

I don't believe they are Christian at all. Just week-mined psycho-bigots following a bigger one hiding behind the protection of freedom of religion.

Fair enough.

And suiging, tell me, if we blame all Muslims for the actions of some radicals how does that make us any different from those Muslims who blame all Westerners for the actions of a few?

Actually it wasn't in response to you at all, but to the hypocrisy of people who claim to be Christian, Regardless of what the Koran says or not, I do know what Christians are supposed to believe and I see very little of that in the hate mongering by some. They should not call themselves Christians.

OK.

and just as an FYI, again, not directed at you in anyway, chuck, hypocrites really piss me off. doesn't matter what or who they are.

Actually it wasn't in response to you at all, but to the hypocrisy of people who claim to be Christian, Regardless of what the Koran says or not, I do know what Christians are supposed to believe and I see very little of that in the hate mongering by some. They should not call themselves Christians.

I don't believe they are Christian at all. Just week-mined psycho-bigots following a bigger one hiding behind the protection of freedom of religion.

Fully agree, should Jesus come back he would be very busy kicking asses !

If religion does not teach love and tolerance then it is false. Jesus would be the last one kicking ass. Religion . . . . what a mess.

Fair enough.

And suiging, tell me, if we blame all Muslims for the actions of some radicals how does that make us any different from those Muslims who blame all Westerners for the actions of a few?

We don't " blame" anybody. We just make observations as to the balance of response. A Christian bigot burns a book, thousands of muslims promise to stone people to death and burn people alive in buildings. You tell me the balance in these actions..........................

Actually it wasn't in response to you at all, but to the hypocrisy of people who claim to be Christian, Regardless of what the Koran says or not, I do know what Christians are supposed to believe and I see very little of that in the hate mongering by some. They should not call themselves Christians.

OK.

and just as an FYI, again, not directed at you in anyway, chuck, hypocrites really piss me off. doesn't matter what or who they are.

OK.

If religion does not teach love and tolerance then it is false. Jesus would be the last one kicking ass. Religion . . . . what a mess.

Well, i remember a story about Jesus going to the temple and getting angry at the priests who were using religion to enrich themselves.

Imho love and tolerance is fair, but i can't force myself to love liars and hypocrites..

Sorry for intruding here, but I mistakenly thought it said

International Burn A Kayo Day.

As it is though, I now realise it is another thread about how sad and stupid and idiotic Humans can be when they put their minds to it.

PS: Who's the guy above me who's nicked me ol' Lelyphant?