Now I thought it was a pretty good solution to a controversial subject when the US implemented this policy now all of a sudden certain entitys want to change that and let openly gays serve in the military.

i dont understand why they dont just leave it be, instead of trying to shove it down peoples throats, at least the senate understands its better to leave it as it is and has shown that by there recent vote on the subject.

Now I dont have anything against Gays what they do in the privacy of there own homes is there business however when its flaunted and pushed down peoples throats it can be offensive to people just as it is offensive to some people if you dont accept the gay lifesyle.

I guess in a way I am offended for example I dont watch those Gay shows that are winning all the awards as if i see 2 guys kissing it makes me GAG sorry but that is offensive to me on the other hand if I see 2 girls kissing well thats a different story Yes i know but its the truth and I am sure many guys agree with me.

My view is keep it Dont ask dont tell when they come out of the Military they can come out as well

Its a compromise that works.

Why are the Democrats so anti-gay? They still have super majorities in both houses of Congress. Why not just do what Obama promised and end the policy??

For centuries men have been trying to keep from serving in the military and here it is you have a segment fighting for the right. I think it's just another evil white man plot to trick minoroty groups into wanting to serve so that in the future all you have are women, blacks, hispanics, & gays fighting while the straight white guy sits at home with a beer in one hand and the TV remote in the other.

BTW - I've read in OTB from some posters that the American solider is poor and uneducated and joined only because they need the money. Does that hold true for the gays wanting to join as well?

I don’t think all the gays are trying to shove it down peoples throats. I don’t think they all can.

So it's ok to want to defend and possibly die for your country as long as you're willing to tell lies about who you are?

Said a recently Americanized Israeli soldier: "I had thought Israel was less tolerant than the United States, but when I enlisted, I never witnessed any morale problems caused by homosexuals and didn't really hear any homophobic talk--nothing along the lines of 'He shouldn't be serving.' There were openly gay soldiers I encountered, but no one seemed to resent it. It's not even an issue. I don't know why it is in America."

So it's ok to want to defend and possibly die for your country as long as you're willing to tell lies about who you are?

Said a recently Americanized Israeli soldier: "I had thought Israel was less tolerant than the United States, but when I enlisted, I never witnessed any morale problems caused by homosexuals and didn't really hear any homophobic talk--nothing along the lines of 'He shouldn't be serving.' There were openly gay soldiers I encountered, but no one seemed to resent it. It's not even an issue. I don't know why it is in America."

I think a valid point is Homosexuals find men attractive thats what turns them on MEN, now I like women and if you threw me into a shower with 25 women what do you think I will be doing ?? I will be eying up a a girl that I find attractive, is it not fair to assume since Homosexuals find men attractive when they are in the showers they will be eyeing up a guy that they think is attractive ??? now if I knew he was a homosexual and he was eying me up in the shower I would not be too pleased about it

it would be awkward and not something I would like to experience.

I am sure eventually it will be passed and the unfortunate thing is on your comment above they are not allowed to speak against it or they will be called a Homophobic or a bigot or another one of those favorite words people like to use when the truth is spoken.

And by the way the Israeli did not have a choice he was inlisted he did not inlist as every israeli HAS to serve so I guess they dont have a choice in the matter.

Another incorrect "fact'. Although Israel has conscription, it can be avoided for religious reasons or higher education. Most Israelis enlist in the military because they consider it necessary and gay men are welcome and feel the same way.

Another incorrect "fact'. Although Israel has conscription, it can be avoided for religious reasons or higher education. Most Israelis enlist in the military because they consider it necessary and gay men are welcome and feel the same way.

Yeah OK UG

Its not an incorrect fact it is fact however you are also correct there are exemptions

Most Israeli citizens are required to serve in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) for a period of between two and three years. Israel is unique in that military service is compulsory for both males and females. It is the only country in the world that maintains obligatory military service for women. But the IDF grants general exemptions from compulsory service to various segments of the population, including Israeli Arabs, students engaged in religious studies in an accredited Jewish Law institution , women who are married, are pregnant or who have children, and women who declare that they lead a religiously observant life and who choose to pursue 'national service' - community work.

And by the way the Israeli did not have a choice he was inlisted he did not inlist as every israeli HAS to serve so I guess they dont have a choice in the matter.

You said that EVERY Israeli HAS to serve and that is not correct.

And by the way the Israeli did not have a choice he was inlisted he did not inlist as every israeli HAS to serve so I guess they dont have a choice in the matter.

You said that EVERY Israeli HAS to serve and that is not correct.

GROW UP UG

You continually make statements about these issues that are totally incorrect and state them as facts. Do a little reading and research before posting or have your inaccuracies exposed.

So it's ok to want to defend and possibly die for your country as long as you're willing to tell lies about who you are?

Said a recently Americanized Israeli soldier: "I had thought Israel was less tolerant than the United States, but when I enlisted, I never witnessed any morale problems caused by homosexuals and didn't really hear any homophobic talk--nothing along the lines of 'He shouldn't be serving.' There were openly gay soldiers I encountered, but no one seemed to resent it. It's not even an issue. I don't know why it is in America."

I think a valid point is Homosexuals find men attractive thats what turns them on MEN, now I like women and if you threw me into a shower with 25 women what do you think I will be doing ?? I will be eying up a a girl that I find attractive, is it not fair to assume since Homosexuals find men attractive when they are in the showers they will be eyeing up a guy that they think is attractive ??? now if I knew he was a homosexual and he was eying me up in the shower I would not be too pleased about it

But if you were in the shower with someone and you didn't know he was homosexual (as is the case in the US forces with their "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy) that would be ok?

You'd still be in the shower with him. He'd still be homosexual. The only difference is your perception. And the fact that you assume that he has as little self-control as you do.

BTW the IDF allow gay soldiers to shower separately - if the gay person wishes.

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But if you were in the shower with someone and you didn't know he was homosexual (as is the case in the US forces with their "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy) that would be ok?

yep that would be fine

So you're willing to die for Queen and Country but you're terrified that someone might sneek a peek at your willie?

So you're willing to die for Queen and Country but you're terrified that someone might sneek a peek at your willie?

I guess ya gotta be straight to understand my thought process

I am straight. I don't give a fig if a lesbian eyes my tits or any other bit. My tits have been eyed since I hit puberty. You learn to get over it.

Perhaps you have ascribed to the notion that seems so common among men who spend long periods of time in Thailand and that is that they are absolutely irresistible and given that, obviously even gay men would be utterly compelled to stare at their bits.

And by the way the Israeli did not have a choice he was inlisted he did not inlist as every israeli HAS to serve so I guess they dont have a choice in the matter.

You said that EVERY Israeli HAS to serve and that is not correct.

GROW UP UG

Yes....totally pedantic to nit-pick on things that are insignificant to the debate.

gonna post it here since you seem hell bent on maintaining these kinds of posts. drop the playground behavior and engage in a normal discussion or go play golf, go bowling, or shopping or play with yourself for all I care. But enough.

So you're willing to die for Queen and Country but you're terrified that someone might sneek a peek at your willie?

I guess ya gotta be straight to understand my thought process

I'm straight, but I am sorry to say that I do not empathise with you.

If a woman or a gay man starts licking his/her chops at the sight of my naked body, I will be flattered.

It's TOTALLY up to me if I want to encourage the turned-on person to advance. I can turn away an unattractive woman just as easily and diplomatically as if the advance came from a gay man.

I really can not see why there is a problem.

So you're willing to die for Queen and Country but you're terrified that someone might sneek a peek at your willie?

I guess ya gotta be straight to understand my thought process

I'm straight, but I am sorry to say that I do not empathise with you.

If a woman or a gay man starts licking his/her chops at the sight of my naked body, I will be flattered.

It's TOTALLY up to me if I want to encourage the turned-on person to advance. I can turn away an unattractive woman just as easily and diplomatically as if the advance came from a gay man.

I really can not see why there is a problem.

The point is right now with the dont tell dont ask policy straight guys dont know who is Gay and who is not Gay, now when they are openly Gay the straight guys no longer have a choice NOT to go into a shower with a Gay person if they feel uncomfortable with it and if they are uncomfortable with it and make it known to an NCO will they be then Ostrosized as homophobic,

Whether someone likes it or not the reality of life is not everyone is comfortable with the subject of gays or being around them and they choose to steer clear of them if they have the choice, if they repeal the don't ask don't tell policy then straight guys will no longer have the choice if they prefer not to associate with gays and as for getting into the shower with a person that obviously finds men attractive in a sexual way Im sorry but not everyone is comfortable with and they have rights too.

Which is why the dont ask don't tell is a compromise that should stay in place.

I am straight. I don't give a fig if a lesbian eyes my tits or any other bit. My tits have been eyed since I hit puberty. You learn to get over it.

Perhaps you have ascribed to the notion that seems so common among men who spend long periods of time in Thailand and that is that they are absolutely irresistible and given that, obviously even gay men would be utterly compelled to stare at their bits.

And thats great for you SBK however someone who is deeply religious or someone who believes that the lifestyle is wrong may not want to learn to get over it, and at this time they dont know and what you don't know don't hurt you.

As for your other comment NOPE not so conceited like that but I would not be inclined by choice to jump in the shower with Gay guys in fact I would refuse not that they would be looking at me bit and pieces but it would make me feel uncomfortable now you can call that what you like but thats the truth I would be uncomfortable simple as that and I would choose to not do it and I should have that choice.

The point Im making is a small minority is trying to change the law where the law is working fine so why try to change it other than forcing people to acccept it if the majority are asked im sure would probably vote against it as have the senate.

If they want to repeal it then have the armed forces vote on it and see what they feel instead of a small minority group tryin to force it on people.

If they vote yes great but if they vote no that should be it but we know it wont be.

So you're willing to die for Queen and Country but you're terrified that someone might sneek a peek at your willie?

I guess ya gotta be straight to understand my thought process

When I was in the military we had to shower together and everyone knew some soldiers were gay. They did not eyeball or come on to anyone and no mention was made of it. There have been gay soldiers since long before Sparta.

So you're willing to die for Queen and Country but you're terrified that someone might sneek a peek at your willie?

I guess ya gotta be straight to understand my thought process

When I was in the military we had to shower together and everyone knew some soldiers were gay. They did not eyeball or come on to anyone and no mention was made of it. There have been gay soldiers since long before Sparta.

EXACTLY UG

Don't ASK Don't Tell

Been working perfect since before Sparta so why change it now

When I was a young man I used to go to a Jewish steam bath. It was older than the hills mostly done in marble in the steam area. They had the best corned beef sandwiches with real Kosher dill pickles in town. No body there was gay. If you wanted a wash you laid down on a large marble slab and another guy would slosh you with a giant sponge the size of two basketballs then somebody else would throw a couple of buckets of water over you. In the main steam bath area there were always 20 plus guys. It was a great cure for a hangover. Sweat out the booze and then have a corned beef sandwich to put the salt back in. I went there almost once a week.

I get kind of tired of the poofs and the anti poofs venting their spleens at the gay stuff and someone getting upset about someone looking at their dick.

When I was in the army the chaplain's assistant and the medic were gay so I don’t know about their performance in combat as the chaplains assistant or the medic never went into combat. They did however, do night guard duty and would pull your shift too for a bit on the side. The medic was OK but the chaplains assistant wanted a hug afterwards which freaked me out a bit.

You work all day long from 5 AM till 5 PM and then have to stay awake at night watching for sneaky sappers trying to blow up things. That’s a long day. The medic would give you bennies but they have a nasty side effect as those with experience realize.

When I was a young man I used to go to a Jewish steam bath. It was older than the hills mostly done in marble in the steam area. They had the best corned beef sandwiches with real Kosher dill pickles in town. No body there was gay. If you wanted a wash you laid down on a large marble slab and another guy would slosh you with a giant sponge the size of two basketballs then somebody else would throw a couple of buckets of water over you. In the main steam bath area there were always 20 plus guys. It was a great cure for a hangover. Sweat out the booze and then have a corned beef sandwich to put the salt back in. I went there almost once a week.

I get kind of tired of the poofs and the anti poofs venting their spleens at the gay stuff and someone getting upset about someone looking at their dick.

When I was in the army the chaplain's assistant and the medic were gay so I don’t know about their performance in combat as the chaplains assistant or the medic never went into combat. They did however, do night guard duty and would pull your shift too for a bit on the side. The medic was OK but the chaplains assistant wanted a hug afterwards which freaked me out a bit.

You work all day long from 5 AM till 5 PM and then have to stay awake at night watching for sneaky sappers trying to blow up things. That’s a long day. The medic would give you bennies but they have a nasty side effect as those with experience realize.

Well if you find being rubbed down by another guy with a big sponge a good time then good on ya but that aint my kind of a good time, my X wife gave me a birthday present of a massage by a gay guy and Im sorry I aint up for it so i refused, now incase you think its just gay guys she also gave me a present of a massage by a small horrific looking mingin goat and I refused that also, now if she had given me a massage by a smokin hot girl, ok thats another story.

I aint up for a guy rubbin his hands all over me Gay or not

So you're willing to die for Queen and Country but you're terrified that someone might sneek a peek at your willie?

I guess ya gotta be straight to understand my thought process

I guess not

I aint up for a guy rubbin his hands all over me Gay or not

Just to be accurate - not pedantic, there was a big natural sponge about the size of a medicine ball in a big bucket of soapy water. One old guy would grab the sponge and rub it around on another guys back and legs. There was no flesh to flesh contact this was only this big sponge thing. Then some other old guy would throw a bucket of water on to wash it off.

I don’t think anyone has to worry though, I think steam baths of this nature died out years ago.

My point was who cares? Apparently some posters actually care. Now this seems unusual to me although I did have an Aunty Mame when growing up so that may have effected my morals.

I used communal showers for a while in the army before I arranged my own quarters. I don’t really remember anyone looking at me when I was showering.

One night I was in a bunker when it was raining and my machine gun got very muddy as a result of the rain throwing droplets of mud in the bunker. So I took a shower with my machine gun. I couldn’t think of any other way to clean it - it was very dirty. I was going to have to strip the whole thing and re oil it anyway.

I did notice when taking a shower with a machine gun and a slight scowl on my face that the place completely cleared out. I mean I was alone in a very big shower room quickly.

My point was who cares? Apparently some posters actually care.

The point is, somebody - a majority of somebodies - do care and why should they be ignored? Me? I don't particularly care. But I do care that in this issue and others one group is told they must respect another group's beliefs & feelings while at the same time ignoring their own advice. Straight people who don't feel comfortable showering with homosexuals must respect the gays' rights and ignore their feelings. But gays don't have to care about how the heterosexual might feel about it. WHY are the feelings of the gay soldier more important? The same thing with this mosque issue in NY. Everyone must respect peaceful muslims and let them build a mosque near ground zero yet these same muslims couldn't give a shit about the feelings of the people they are offending. WHY are the feelings of the muslims more important? Seems to me in both cases the "victim" is at risk of becoming the bigot.

As for other armies allowing gays to serve openly, no other western armies (except the UK) ever really fight so it proves nothing. Except maybe that if you allow gays to serve openly then you will be useless on the battlefield. Sounds exactly like what the Left wants. The Best arguement that I can see for allowing gays to serve openly is how blacks weren't allowed to serve alongside whites in the US for a long time. That doesn't even make sense nowadays to the vast majority of Americans to keep them segregated. Will that be the attitude towards gays serving openly 50 years from now?

One last thing, what if a total flamer goes to the recruiter, pretending to be straight or a "more normal" acting gay? Then when he signs on the line and gets out of bootcamp, out come the 70's retro Elton John glasses and a sequin jumpsuit. Would it be OK that he misrepresented himself just to cause a scandal/controversy ala the Turkish blockade breaking flotilla?

My point was who cares? Apparently some posters actually care.

The point is, somebody - a majority of somebodies - do care and why should they be ignored? Me? I don't particularly care. But I do care that in this issue and others one group is told they must respect another group's beliefs & feelings while at the same time ignoring their own advice. Straight people who don't feel comfortable showering with homosexuals must respect the gays' rights and ignore their feelings. But gays don't have to care about how the heterosexual might feel about it. WHY are the feelings of the gay soldier more important? The same thing with this mosque issue in NY. Everyone must respect peaceful muslims and let them build a mosque near ground zero yet these same muslims couldn't give a shit about the feelings of the people they are offending. WHY are the feelings of the muslims more important? Seems to me in both cases the "victim" is at risk of becoming the bigot.

..........................

Do you really think that the "feelings" of a bigotted majority should prevail? Have you considered that upholding an individual's constitutional or human rights may be a higher purpose?

My point was who cares? Apparently some posters actually care.

The point is, somebody - a majority of somebodies - do care and why should they be ignored? Me? I don't particularly care. But I do care that in this issue and others one group is told they must respect another group's beliefs & feelings while at the same time ignoring their own advice. Straight people who don't feel comfortable showering with homosexuals must respect the gays' rights and ignore their feelings. But gays don't have to care about how the heterosexual might feel about it. WHY are the feelings of the gay soldier more important? The same thing with this mosque issue in NY. Everyone must respect peaceful muslims and let them build a mosque near ground zero yet these same muslims couldn't give a shit about the feelings of the people they are offending. WHY are the feelings of the muslims more important? Seems to me in both cases the "victim" is at risk of becoming the bigot.

..........................

Do you really think that the "feelings" of a bigotted majority should prevail? Have you considered that upholding an individual's constitutional or human rights may be a higher purpose?

Are you saying that straight people who are uncomfortable showering with gays are bigots? Where in the US constitution does it give the right of a person of one sexual orientation to shower with those of a different sexual orientation? This is what I'm talking about. You don't even realise that your own statements sound like pure intolerance and bigotry - just in the opposite direction. It reminds me of those people who believe that only white people can be racist. No kidding, they are out there.