Pigs 101 (A Start)

[revar]

30*135kg. Did you have buyers for these? Around here they don't want pigs over 120 kg.

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[IsaanAussie]

Hi Pigsters,

This one is important. Most know that the under 500 pigs is a grey area in the regulations, however there are local regulations that you must be aware of. I have been bitten by these and will have to resite my pigs as a result.

In 1999 the Thai government devolved responsibility for Health Impact Assessment to subdistrict administration level, or Tambon. Each subdistrict has to issue local bylaws which are retrospective to activate their control. These bylaws reference the Thai Heath Act of 1992, which states that any business that has a "potential" impact on the community and environment must register and be approved in order to operate. Pigs and other animal raising is top of the list. At local level it is taken to mean that a potential threat can mean discord within the community.

I have been fighting a running battle for two and a half years with some jealous neighbours about smell. I have refused to pay them off and we have beaten that off but now the protests are we do not have this approval to operate. We approached the Tambon officials and were told they couldn't give it to us because there had been protests. The fact that the protests were dismissed made no difference, there has been discord and that was the decider.

In our case that bylaw had been passed in October of last year and we were not aware of it and have been operating illegally since then, and retrospectively since we started. The only way to get the permit was for us to get the signatures of all protestors on what the building was going to be used for and then apply. Obviously as their complaints are personal not factual there was no way the purpose of the building would include a large pig population. So we asked for the standard village number of 10, even that was refused, not one or we continue to protest was their response.

In my case we have negotiated the date when the pigs must be gone and got agreement that the building could be used for other purposes. So I now have to plan exactly what that will be and reapproach the Orbitor and get the necessary permits. Obviously the pigs situation will require further thought.

To everyone out there, if you havent got this permit to operate then get moving quickly before you have a complaint lodged against you. Local interpretations will differ, some may not have passed the bylaw yet, but be warned this is serious. The penalty for operating without the permit is 10,000 baht and or 6 months jail.

Are you at risk? Do you have more than 10 pigs or is the sty larger than a normal Thai house? if the answer is yes, then you are in the frame.

Edited August 12, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[jompa67]

Hi Pigsters,

This one is important. Most know that the under 500 pigs is a grey area in the regulations, however there are local regulations that you must be aware of. I have been bitten by these and will have to resite my pigs as a result.

Are you at risk? Do you have more than 10 pigs or is the sty larger than a normal Thai house? if the answer is yes, then you are in the frame.

We have try to register our farm for 6 years now, but every time we are calling the office down in Korat, they cant find our document. Then they ask us to register again. So far we have try 3 times and are about to start our 4.

[revar]

IA, dont know what to say but feel I have to say something. This sucks bigtime. Local jealausy kills your business. Only one thought. Did you consult a lawyer? I have found that they can often help not only with conflicts but also on other ways. maybe rephrasing or some other trick will get you a permit. If they play dirty...

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[RedBullHorn]

30*135kg. Did you have buyers for these? Around here they don't want pigs over 120 kg.

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Yes revar... I'm very resourceful, we sell them across the border.

Edited August 13, 2012 by RedBullHorn

[Khonwan]

Sorry to hear of your bad news IA – quite a blow, I’m sure. What exactly do the rules specify?

When I started farming here I’m sure I read some recommendations via the internet advising that cattle (pigs too I guess) should be housed at least 400m from human residence. I built mine at 400m from my house (1,000m from nearest neighbour). I built my second and much larger cattle feedlot (many times larger than any house) 450m from my house and later converted this into a pig growing feedlot. It had been my plan to fatten 500-1,000 pigs after a trial period. Not that I’m thinking of going back to that (I don’t have a reverse gear), but would this set up as described have contravened the new regulations you refer to?

Do you have suitable land to relocate your operation?

Rgds

Khonwan

[revar]

Our tambon advices against registering since according to them its only necessary for 360+ pigs. But if I register they have to inform tax and health autorities which might lead to addition charges and taxes to be paid and other requirements.To register I need approval from the closesed neighbours (around 200 and 400 meters away). Shouldbe no problwm sincw these are acow farm and a corn prosessor.

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[revar]

My 10 packchong 5 piglets finaly arrived plus 1 cross between packchomg 5 and pietrain. piglets around 15 kg and the supplier claims that they should reach 100kg in 3months +10 days. onteresting to see how much they eat and how fast they grow.

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[revar]

some packchong 5 pics. (coloured one is a packchong5-pietrain cross

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[Khonwan]

400 metres and you still need permission? That’s draconian!

Rgds

Khonwan

[pigeonjake]

if you had your stys built first then that rule dosnt apply,

jake

[revar]

400 metres and you still need permission? That’s draconian!

Rgds

Khonwan

I don't have to register according to them (I have70 pigs/will expand to 200 in near future). If I want to do it anyway I need approval from at least the 2 closest neighbours. with this permission I could get up to 500-1000 pigs. If I then want to grow even bigger I would need to organize a hearing in the village and would need approval from everybody who attends. (this way the village stopped a big operation who wanted to raise 5000+ chickens in the recent past).

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[Khonwan]

As I mentioned, I had been intending to fatten 500-1,000 pigs (very much past tense) but was unaware of this rule. I would have been snookered if the rules say that I was required to obtain permission from my closest two neighbours since, although 1,000 metres away, I doubt my nearest would have given it due to past conflicts over the width of a road. 1km away and could still be blocked? Ridiculous rule.

Rgds

Khonwan

[revar]

This is the way the tambon here does it. which is not necessary the same as others. Its more custom then law and may be challenged. Its how a lot of things work around here and you can often make use of that. In my experiece local ampeuh, land office and tambon officials often do not know the laws and instead use these kind of arbitrary rules. If these are on your favor, fine. If not I go to a lawyer if its important enough.

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[Khonwan]

Thanks for the clarification, Revar. And I certainly agree that officials here are often woefully inept in their knowledge – I could cite many examples but I’m sure we all could.

Rgds

Khonwan

[chrisnouy]

back to sunny Surin(lol) later today,the last couple of sows have been good,9 - 10.looking strong and healthy,can,t wait to see them with my own eyes ,had a couple of good results in the last 3 days,5 bags of food from birth,108 kg + 98 kg.they say there are some big ones left as well ,,but there are some about 80 + out of the 16 left.,,this is an old picture

WHEN YOU SAY 5 BAGS OF FEED DOES THIS MEAN JUST FEED OR FEED MIXED WITH OTHER INGREDIENTS EG COW PIE AND LAM

OR ARE YOU USING 50KGS BAGS?

I ASK BECAUSE 5* 30 KG BAG TO PRODUCE WEIGHT GAIN OF SAY 90KG IS AN FCR OF 1:1.66 WHICH IS SUPPOSEDLY NOT POSSIBLE

[chrisnouy]

broke my fattening record yesterday. One pig went from 15 kilo to 116 kilo in 105 days. feed cost less then 3000 bath. Other pigs from the same piglet supplier were between 94 and 104 kilo (same age and feed costs). Still very good. Illustrating how important the quality of the piglets is is the fact that another pen with other piglets took over 5 months to reach 85-90 kilo with feed costs around 3500.

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a 100KG GAIN IN 105 DAYS IS SPECTACULAR and for 3000baht

this works out at 30baht per 1kg of gain assuming an fcr of 2..7 you must be feeding for around 11 baht per kg?

very good going

[chrisnouy]

I have a problem with a whole batch of piglets FROM ABOUT 5 LITTERS

They do very well hitting growth targets until about 70 kgs but then they slow down radically and very few reach 100kg within my time frame of 24 weeks

msotly in the 90+ kg bracket but just not finishing off

ANYBODY EXPERIENCED THIS? Suggestions

[revar]

I have a problem with a whole batch of piglets FROM ABOUT 5 LITTERS

They do very well hitting growth targets until about 70 kgs but then they slow down radically and very few reach 100kg within my time frame of 24 weeks

msotly in the 90+ kg bracket but just not finishing off

ANYBODY EXPERIENCED THIS? Suggestions

What are you feeding them from 70-90 and for 90+?

Are they eating a lot but don't gain weight or aren't they eating?

I have seen similar things happening also and have tried the following soltions successfully.

If they have been very sick as piglets I sell at around 90kg. very hard to get them over 100.

Change the feed. the feed which made them grow quickly to 70kg, doesn't seem to work as well over 70. some pigs also seem to like another taste and start eating more.

I use Betagro 301b until approx60-70 kg. changing to 302 until 90 and 303 above 90. the higher numbers have less protain but the pigs also produce less manure.

Make sure they aren't just to hot or have a fever. i shower the big ones several times a day after which they always start to eat immediately. In case of fever I use diclofinac.

maybe they are bored. give them somthing to play with.

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[COXYATCITY]

back to sunny Surin(lol) later today,the last couple of sows have been good,9 - 10.looking strong and healthy,can,t wait to see them with my own eyes ,had a couple of good results in the last 3 days,5 bags of food from birth,108 kg + 98 kg.they say there are some big ones left as well ,,but there are some about 80 + out of the 16 left.,,this is an old picture

WHEN YOU SAY 5 BAGS OF FEED DOES THIS MEAN JUST FEED OR FEED MIXED WITH OTHER INGREDIENTS EG COW PIE AND LAM

OR ARE YOU USING 50KGS BAGS?

I ASK BECAUSE 5* 30 KG BAG TO PRODUCE WEIGHT GAIN OF SAY 90KG IS AN FCR OF 1:1.66 WHICH IS SUPPOSEDLY NOT POSSIBLE

hi,Chris,the 108 pig ,that was a mistake which i found out when i got back to the farm,this pig was mixed into a room with smaller pigs from a different batch,the 98 was correct,all the rest have been sold 80-94 kilo,s. 5+ a bit but not 6 bags,from weaning.,i do not mix any of the food,its commercial feed,30 kg,s per bag from the Thai food company,which we also sell,they have grade A + B.but we stick with A as there is not much difference in price,there was 18 pigs in this sty,so maybe some pigs ate more than others.

regards Ian.

regards Ian

[chrisnouy]

to revar and coxyatcity

Thanks for quick replies I need to find something new

Pigs eating up ,no apparent sickness just not growing

Sold some yesterday one in particular at 94kg which i weighed a week ago also at 94 -- so no growth for the week

Many people seem to be using beta gro I need to see if I can find this in Khonkaen

Is there anybody in the kk area who can supply the names and addresses of feed dealers? i have only found CP so far

Meanwhile I will bite the bullet and sell the remaing dozen at around 90kg

Buyers are starting to quote 'silly' prices as low as 49baht against online figures of 56bht

[pigeonjake]

if i was you i would worm them, i worm our on a regular basis,

and im not telling you how to suck eggs by the way, but i worm them one week and again the week after as the first time will kill the worms but not the eggs so they hatch again so you need to worm again,

that could be the reason they arnt growing out to full wait,

jake

[revar]

whats the proteine content of your feed. If this is over 14% they should gain weight. If they are eating and not excersising the calories have to go somewhere. worms are a likely reason. give them a shot of ivermectin. (most powdered product won't work well for bigger pigs). I asume there is no scouring. A slight fever may also cause this. Can be difficult to detect even with a termometer. If the pigs are just lying around this is an indication. A shot of diclofinac should dp wonders in this case.

Last thing. This can also be caused by overcrowding.

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[Khonwan]

Chrisnouy, if you are already deworming (and that’s a must) and providing the correct nutrition (again a must), I would question the genetics. Were these pigs bred by you? Have the respective sows yet produced pigs that have grown to 100kg?

Rgds

Khonwan

[chrisnouy]

Thanks to one and all for the great response

We have been breeding our own pigs and i am already looking closely at each sow and changing the semen supplier

There has been no evidence of worms when we slaughter or from the people who buy from us and sell in market

Protein has been way over 14% for the last batch --I left it as high as 18%--

I think maybe genetics

I have four litters two weeks old so i will put each on a different feeding regimen and see what happens

Thanks again

[revar]

Sold our 11 'sickbay' pigs today. these pigs had all been very sick and I had placed them in a separate sickbay-pen. they ate their 7 bags and were now between 104 and 88kg,average of 95kg in under 4 months. not the 7bag-105kg goal but for pigs which we were afraid would die not bad. still made a profit on them.

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[joeuk1]

Doing the maths there is so little money in rearing pigs , i think a lot of the smaller rearers 10 -20 pigs are getting out of the game . Current prices of 53-55 baht live weight is break even if people are having to buy piglets . Prices next month live weight for Issan expected to be 60 baht but even at 60 still not a lot for the work & effort the rearers put in .

Best regards

[pigeonjake]

the thing is with me i enjoy doing my pigs, as not does it just keep me busy it also keeps me fit,

and when im away like now,mama like to take over with my wife doing it,

its not all about profit,, but a little profit is better then none, also it depends on how much your paying for your piglets some get them cheaper then others so more profit,

jake,

ps i get our piglets at between 500 and 750bht depending on the size and i get first pick of the batch when the lady rings us she will say something like i have 60 coming at 1pm sunday, and we go and pick what we want,

they might be the big factory runts but by god they some come round, even when we buy the small ones, i just give them a few days on baby milk,(human) and they bloody come on a treat, with the food of course,

jake

[revar]

Iagree with Jake. If you are only in it for the money raising pigs is not your business. If I wanted a lot of money I would have staid in the west. Teaching english in thailand also earns better. But I just love to work with my wife at pigsty. Sure, money is not too good and money problems occur. But my quality of live is 500% better then it was when I earned big bucks in the west.

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[revar]

Is there anybody out there?

Its very quiet.

a question. One of my piglets becamw very white. I gave him an iron injection. Now he is very,very yellow. Almost like a lemmon. Any ideas?

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