Thailand Not Ready For English As Second Language

[webfact]

Country not ready for English language instruction

By Wannapa Khaopa

The Nation

It's too soon to declare English the second language for teaching in schools, Office of the Education Council (OEC) secretary-general Tongthong Chandransu said recently.

News reports late last week said the Education Ministry planned to declare English the second language in schools on October 22.

But Tongthong denied there would be declarations related to the issue on October 22, as reported by the media.

"The education reform policy committee, chaired by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has discussed improving or upgrading English language teaching in educational institutions. But the committee has not yet reached a conclusion of how to develop the teaching," Tongthong said.

He was not sure if there was confusion caused by initial news reports on the issue.

He said the issue to be announced on the 22nd would be about developing students' quality by providing 30 per cent of their study time to activities outside classrooms.

"To initiate a nationwide English language teaching improvement scheme is a big issue. We need to prepare enough basic structure, like instructional tools, technology and qualified teachers as well as arrange funds, which will take a long time."

He said the PM and Finance Minister Korn Chatikavanij agreed in principle to upgrade teaching English and would support the scheme.

"We need to clarify clearly the term to be used to call the language teaching improvement scheme to prevent confusion. I'm not sure if the committee will state that English will be taught as the second language for teaching in schools or not, but I can now tell that it is considering the language teaching improvement scheme. And, it will be able to give an answer on how it will move this project forward within the next one or two months," he said.

Meanwhile, former Deputy Education Minister Varakorn Samkoses said he agreed with the idea of declaring English the second language in schools, as Thailand will be part of the Asean community in 2015.

However, he said, most Thai people were not ready for communication in English despite the coming Asean community. So, other sectors of society should prepare for the change, as well by seek strategies to help improve their personnel, especially the government and private sector.

"To move the education sector, we should start with training our Thai teachers along with importing foreign teachers," Varakorn said.

"The Basic Education Commission's English Resource and Instruction Centre should be the main agency responsible for the scheme. It should collaborate with universities to share their knowledge and train and certify teachers in each region.

"Schools should create an English learning atmosphere by placing boards in English with language vocabularies around the schools, having students perform English language stage dramas, teaching maths and science in English and having foreigners meet and talk to students," Varakorn said.

English is used as an official language in the Philippines and Singapore, but used and spoken in Malaysia as a second language, according to Wikipedia.

-- The Nation 2010-10-11

[BillR]

Yes qualified teachers. I have one staff who is a UNI grad and she cannot read English and barely speaks it despite several years of English classes apparently. On the other hand, I have another staff, no UNI, and is fluent in both reading and speaking English which he studies on his own.

Who knows though, maybe they should be studying Chinese instead.

[nong38]

As a lot of sineage and product information is also in English it would make sense to make it the 2nd language, however, before declaration English teaching needs to be re-thought. I find a lot of children can speak a little although not with confidence,but when it comes to the words meaning "can you show me.......?" they have not a clue. My only conclusion is that the method teaching is not what it should be,

[brahmburgers]

The OP article is not clear. It seems to dwell on logistics, rather than the basic premise of whether English should be Thailand's 2nd language. Of course it should! What other language comes close, in importance and validity?

And yes, there are logistical hurdles to overcome. Most English teachers in Thailand are Thai, and most of them have a poor handle on the language. To compensate, they burden their students with archaic and unnecessary semantics. Classrooms have too many students, therefore not enough conversational learning via student interaction.

The Imm Dept has been making visas for farang increasingly difficult, therefore thinning out the numbers of potential English teachers who are native speakers. It's grossly counter-productive in the big picture of things. If Thailand wants to be a player on the world stage, it needs lots more English speakers. I go in to large department stores, large business places (banks, hospitals, government buildings, etc) and if I'm lucky, perhaps one person out of dozens is able to speak an English sentence of more than 3 words.

Since Thais spend so much time watching TV (rather than reading books or doing outdoor activities), then how about more English speaking programs on Thai TV? Keep it simple and entertaining. Perhaps have a little quiz at the end of each program.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

As a lot of sineage and product information is also in English it would make sense to make it the 2nd language, however, before declaration English teaching needs to be re-thought. I find a lot of children can speak a little although not with confidence,but when it comes to the words meaning "can you show me.......?" they have not a clue. My only conclusion is that the method teaching is not what it should be,

The proposed 2nd language regulations would have no impact on the teaching of younger children, as they would continue to be taught by Thai speakers, albeit there is a requirement that they hold a degree in English (a lot of difference that would make, considering the poor level of English skills amongst grads of Thai university English programs). The 2nd language regs focus on upper mathayom students (M4-6) mandating that they be taught by NES.

The problem they have run into is that the TCT has queered up the certification process for foreign teachers. They could have an adequate pool of good teachers for the 2nd language program, but the TCT is determined to extract money from the foreigner teachers (and enriching certain programs connected with Burapha U. which is well-represented in the TCT). Hence, they have created a licensing exam that is nearly impossible to pass, and bears no resemblance to the skills needed for TESL teachers, with the only alternative being to pay for 15 units of university work towards an education degree (and, hence, the enrichment of Burapha and the programs it certifies).

The TCT has indicated in its deliberations that it doesn't care if good foreign teachers are chased out of the country because they can't afford to meet the educational requirements, as there is a steady stream of backpackers who will be granted waivers to teach for a year in Thailand. Hence, as I indicated in the other thread on this topic, the TCT is at cross-purposes with the MOE on this issue. The TCT has no interest in actually increasing the quality of foreign teachers, it is only interested in lining the pockets of its members and connected organizations. TIT!

[brahmburgers]

Sorry to be so vociferous this morning, but just had to add something about TV:

When I interact with a Thai who wants to improve their English, I'll say a phrase in Thai and immediately say the same in English. It sometimes happens the other way: first say it in English, then the same in Thai.

How about a TV program which does the same? Since 95% of Thai TV is soaps dealing with screwed up inter-personal crap, also change the venue - to science and nature topics - and keep it simple. For example, a couple of bright young people explaining the solar system: For each sentence uttered, the same in the other language follows immediately. ....could do it for shows on plants, animals, chemistry, geology, archeology, rocketry...

Naw, perhaps smarter to stick with the TV topic that's most popular in Thailand; Emotionally shipwrecked females screaming at each other.

[MrSnrang]

They can worry about second languages as soon as children get a good grasp of Thai.

[RKASA]

The OP article is not clear. It seems to dwell on logistics, rather than the basic premise of whether English should be Thailand's 2nd language. Of course it should! What other language comes close, in importance and validity?

And yes, there are logistical hurdles to overcome. Most English teachers in Thailand are Thai, and most of them have a poor handle on the language. To compensate, they burden their students with archaic and unnecessary semantics. Classrooms have too many students, therefore not enough conversational learning via student interaction.

The Imm Dept has been making visas for farang increasingly difficult, therefore thinning out the numbers of potential English teachers who are native speakers. It's grossly counter-productive in the big picture of things. If Thailand wants to be a player on the world stage, it needs lots more English speakers. I go in to large department stores, large business places (banks, hospitals, government buildings, etc) and if I'm lucky, perhaps one person out of dozens is able to speak an English sentence of more than 3 words.

Since Thais spend so much time watching TV (rather than reading books or doing outdoor activities), then how about more English speaking programs on Thai TV? Keep it simple and entertaining. Perhaps have a little quiz at the end of each program.

Bingo on the TV idea - My wife of course took ESL classes, but she will tell you she learned real conversational English watching TV, movies and game shows. I hate day time programming, but she said they used daily conversation concerning peoples lives and repeated the stories over and over ( The main reason to hate them), but that worked out great for her. I took German in High School and could never speak German to anyone other then my class mates - I don't think any German would have understood us.

[chantorn]

Mark should set up a budget to buy Babel Fish for everyone in Thailand. Problem solved.

[dumpling]

It is true that having English as a second language here in Thailand would be of massive benefit the problem then becomes how to instigate this.

One thing I have noticed over the years is the Thai doggedness to stick to the rule that those above know best when clearly a lot of the time they do not, I have seen many foreigners come into the field of education here only to have the enthusiasm knocked out of them.

Many have new methods and great ideas on how to move education forward but because they are a lowly foreign teacher these ideas are often greeted with a smile and a passing comment "we will think about it" but as change comes from the top and not the bottom (in Thai eyes) things just stay the same.

This is compounded by the increasing amount of regulations teachers have to conform to , I do believe in adequately checking on new teachers but I do believe things should be made a little easier .

I believe that the development of a persons language skills improves the more they are subjected to that language be that listening speaking or reading and writing through what ever form that takes but the way things are at the moment I see less people wishing to come and teach here due to over regulation and the general attitude of schools towards foreign teachers.

lets just hope that in the future things will change for the positive.

[Xangsamhua]

He was not sure if there was confusion caused by initial news reports on the issue.

He said the issue to be announced on the 22nd would be about developing students' quality by providing 30 per cent of their study time to activities outside classrooms.

It seems the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Is Khun Tonthong overriding or just clarifying the Minister or the summary of the Minister's speech on the Minister's website?

The summary clearly states (in red for highlighting): ในวันที่ ๒๒ ตุลาคม ๒๕๕๓ เป็นวันที่ ศธ.จะประกาศจุดเน้นในการพัฒนาผู้เรียน ก็จะถือโอกาสประกาศให้ภาษาอังกฤษเป็นภาษาที่สองเป็นครั้งแรกในประเทศไทย. (The 22nd October is the date on which the Ministry of Education will announce focus points for developing students and will take this opportunity to announce that English is the second language for the first time in Thailand.") http://www.moe.go.th/websm/2010/oct/339.html

So who's confused - Khun Tongthong, the Minister, the latter's media assistant or us?

It's true that the Minister's statement above does not clarify the implications of English as a second language's new status other than in his references to the background and qualifications of those who teach it. I assume that Khun Tongthong is afraid that people will jump to conclusions and expect to see immediate or imminent effective teaching of English in all schools around the country - an impossibility.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Xangsamhua

[jalansanitwong]

What is the first language???? Alot of Thai's cannot speak Thai. Just talk to any girfriend or wife of a farang living in LOS. Most of them speak Isan -Laos and have difficulty reading newspapers.When was the last time you saw any Thai sitting down reading the paper? Farangs who marry 'thai" speak provincial isan dailects not Thai. POK POK!!!! sep-ili

[trogers]

Best language lessons are taught and learnt in the bedroom.

[Xangsamhua]

Khun Tongthong: "To initiate a nationwide English language teaching improvement scheme is a big issue. We need to prepare enough basic structure, like instructional tools, technology and qualified teachers as well as arrange funds, which will take a long time."

They've needed to do these things and have been talking about them for a long time and very little has happened. If past performance is a guide, it won't only take a long time, it'll never happen (outside the elite schools - the top 500 that have been cited in other sources).

[tartempion]

What is the first language???? Alot of Thai's cannot speak Thai. Just talk to any girfriend or wife of a farang living in LOS. Most of them speak Isan -Laos and have difficulty reading newspapers.When was the last time you saw any Thai sitting down reading the paper? Farangs who marry 'thai" speak provincial isan dailects not Thai. POK POK!!!! sep-ili

That is a strange reply

I live in an Isan village and speak Thai to anyone I meet.

I often go out for lunch/dinner and see Thais reading some newspaper (which I also read when available at restaurants, which is most of the time)

Furthermore my wife gets angry when I utter some words in Isan-Lao. In short: I am not allowed to speak Isan-Lao to anyone, people I meet don't talk Isan-Lao to me neither.

[cup-O-coffee]

I think the headline says it all, but for different reasons. The article goes into a big blame game. This is another opportunity for the responsible parties to deliberate and procrastinate, use up any funding for the project, and while they do that, to probably hope this all goes away, or is soon forgotten, if they maintain this stance long enough.

What inspiration (from within) or motivation (from without) is there for a Thai child to learn English comprehension? That is a statement in the form of a question.

[OzMick]

They can worry about second languages as soon as children get a good grasp of Thai.

Absolutely wrong. Infants are quite capable of learning 2 languages at the same time. In our home my twin daughters were exposed to both. My wife would only speak to them in Thai, but use English to speak to me (she didn't want me to learn Thai). I would speak to the girls in English and repeat in pidgin Thai, and they certainly understood - the problem was that they would only speak Thai, at least while their mother was around.

[Pib]

Until the Thai population in general feels learning a second language such as English is a "necessity" in today's world, other languages taught in Thai schools will remain a low priority. The population needs to see tangible benefits (like money in the pocket, better job, etc) for their children through the learning of a second language. But instilling the feeling of "necessity" regarding a second language will be a long term project and will require the govt constantly stressing the point...and the govt putting money where their mouth is. I don't see this happening anytime soon in Thailand.

[hammered]

English is pretty much taught in most Thai schools to some standard or other. Improving that standard would be a good idea. Moving to the teaching of core subjects in English is a bit premature and would likely just result in a school or two in each province becoming the chosen ones and charging loads of extra dosh and thereby being able to exclude any poor person who slips into those better schools now. Obviously advantaging a relatively small group shouldnt be the aim of a national education philosophy or policy. Some of the best schools in each province are still free or freeish and some poor people go to them. If they suddenly increase price or become fee schools and it they are going to teach subjects in English that is adouble whammy on the poor although would please the upper middle classes who now face very high fees for English instruction programs at schools or international schools.

Another area that requires more concentration is on rebranding technos and making sure those teaching at them arent teaching things decades out of date.

With the advent of technology things in education are going to chnage massively in the next decade or two and these changes should advantage the ordinary person if made through well thought out education policy. Unfortunately few involved in education see the way ahead and are more intent on protecting their positions, cultures and buraeucracies than looking to the potential advantages.

[jcbangkok]

Sorry to be so vociferous this morning, but just had to add something about TV:

When I interact with a Thai who wants to improve their English, I'll say a phrase in Thai and immediately say the same in English. It sometimes happens the other way: first say it in English, then the same in Thai.

How about a TV program which does the same? Since 95% of Thai TV is soaps dealing with screwed up inter-personal crap, also change the venue - to science and nature topics - and keep it simple. For example, a couple of bright young people explaining the solar system: For each sentence uttered, the same in the other language follows immediately. ....could do it for shows on plants, animals, chemistry, geology, archeology, rocketry...

Naw, perhaps smarter to stick with the TV topic that's most popular in Thailand; Emotionally shipwrecked females screaming at each other.

I agree 100% that they should have a Sesame Type show on TV ... in fact, they should simply have Sesame Street

But in terms of making it sound easy ... English is a very complicated language as compared to Thai in many respects .. except for the tones. I for one am very impressed with the Thais who have little education and can communicate in English as well as they do.

[trogers]

I agree 100% that they should have a Sesame Type show on TV ... in fact, they should simply have Sesame Street

I doubt Big Bird will be more attractive to Thai kids than Ultraman...

[Just1Voice]

There is an excellent article in the other English Language paper online in regards to Singapore and what they have done, as well as what they are doing, and why they are doing it. Thailand could learn some very valuable lessons from a country just slightly larger than Bangkok, but YEARS ahead in quality of life, education, and just about everything else.

[Scott]

There is another problem that people are forgetting and that is what is referred to as "Linguistic Distance."

Unlike many European languages which have a lot of similarities in grammar and vocabulary, not to mention using the same alphabet, Thai is a long way from English. Not many words are similar, grammar is significantly different and the alphabet has little in common with English.

This means that they need an early and concerted effort to teach English. It's a much bigger task in Asian countries such as Japan, Korea and China than it is in European countries.

The education system also has problems that complicate the functional use of English for many students. Those that can afford the better schools, of course, have a higher level of competency in English.

[phosphorescent]

There is a fantastic show on TV for kids to learn English called super why. Kids of all ages seem to love it. The problem over here is, ITS DUBBED IN THAI!

[kuffki]

This is one of the funniest statements government has made lately.

In Thailand even doctors and lawyers hardly speak English and they want to make it second language?! LMAO-WHAT A JOKE.

In banks, corporations, business-hardly any senior managers speak any English and those are with extremly good education and background

English is the easiest language in the world and yet 99.9% of the locals can not string few words together.

The ones that do, just butcher the language.

For example, can anyone explain to me how the following works

"My friend you" or My dog you"

In Thai, assuming they are translating word for word, it would be "puan kong khun" or "maa kong khun" which word for word is "friend of you" or "dog of you" So how the hel_l do some arrive at "my friend you"??

To further add, one of my Thai teachers at school who supposedly studied in UK, can nto even explain the different between what and which, while the other one studied in Singapore( and correct me if i am wrong but English is the language used at uni) and she does not know what break up means.

[jayjay0]

I have talked with several teachers and been told that the most of the kids really are not interested in learning English.

Maybe it is just me but there seems to be a undertone here that if it is not Thai it is no good.

Edited October 11, 2010 by jayjay0

[madmitch]

I agree 100% that they should have a Sesame Type show on TV ... in fact, they should simply have Sesame Street

Play With Me Sesame is on Thai TV but of course dubbed into Thai.

[Hawk]

I have talked with several teachers and been told that the most of the kids really are not interested in learning English.

Quite true, the children seem to lack any incentive to learn anything these days.

[Hawk]

Double post???

Edited October 11, 2010 by Hawk

[Hawk]

I agree 100% that they should have a Sesame Type show on TV ... in fact, they should simply have Sesame Street

Play With Me Sesame is on Thai TV but of course dubbed into Thai.

At one time movies at the rental shops were available with either an English soundtrack or dubbed in Thai soundtrack. Now everywhere I go the movies are all dubbed in Thai, the companies no longer put out movies with the English soundtracks anymore. The reason I mention this is because quite many Thais like to watch the movies with their original soundtracks.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Hawk