The New Skytrain

[IsaanUSA]

I cannot read Thai, so I must rely on Google translate, but it sounds like they have not even purchased the land yet for the new Northern Bus Terminal. So I would think Mor Chit isn't going anywhere for awhile.

There's also a story in the Bangkok Post in Feburary talking about splitting up the bus station into several smaller buildings.

Edited April 21, 2016 by IsaanUSA

[Lakegeneve]

What's the latest on when the northern bus station is moving out of Bang Sue? I've got a good view of the whole construction area from my office tower and they seem to be making good progress with several new rail lines going in different directions, but right smack in the middle of everything is that bus station. Seems like they're going to have to move it soon or have to delay some work.

Mo Chit 2 as it is known is going to be the site for the Red LIne Depot. The Transport Company which runs the bus terminal (MOT) was meant to be giving the land back by the end of this year........

The new site was to be located on Vihavadi-Rangsit rd between DMK airport and Rangsit, not far from Zeer. Linked to the Dark Red Line. It had been selected and was a done deal. However, a few months ago an issue arose and now the site is being reviewed.

For the Eastern Bus terminal at Ekkamai, land was selected nearly 2 years ago on Bang Na Trat rd just 700m west of the Bang Na junction and what will be in the future be Asias largest shopping mall which will take up that huge block of vacant land on the NE corner. I'm not sure of the timeframe.

[IsaanUSA]

11 billion baht for 46 sets of trains. To be delivered in 2018. 22 from Siemens and 24 from CRRC (the Chinese ones).

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/asia/single-view/view/bangkok-mts-to-order-siemens-and-crrc-trains.html

Edited May 23, 2016 by IsaanUSA

[Lakegeneve]

11 billion baht for 46 sets of trains. To be delivered in 2018. 22 from Siemens and 24 from CRRC (the Chinese ones).

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/asia/single-view/view/bangkok-mts-to-order-siemens-and-crrc-trains.html

No guesses for which ones will be more reliable and are more likely to be delivered on time.....

[Crossy]

Been to Purple Line station 02 today.

Skywalk to Central Westgate is approaching completion.

But I assume the street lighting will be relocated, limbo anyone??

[ExpatOilWorker]

Pink and Yellow Monorail lines

Cabinet approved the Pink and Yellow monorail lines for tender yesterday (This is actually the 3rd time a diff govt cabinet mtg has approved the Pink line which was first due to be tendered in 2010!). Both of these lines were originally planned as heavy rail which they still should be as monorail won't cope with the pax loads. The Pink line will be the 2nd (or 3rd) longest monorail line in the world when operational.

Supposedly both lines will be tendered within the next 3 months. However, I have my doubts as the MRTA still needs to select the rolling stock manufacturer first and though there is a favourite, I understand that the matter is still some time from being finalised. This has been the main reason for the delay in the last 2 years for both lines...........along with the post coup uncertainty period. They cannot tender the line until the rolling stock is contracted as it dictates the line design.

I'd suggest another 6 months at least before a tender.........

More on the Yellow line post #329, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/406991-the-new-skytrain/page-14 .....................I previously did the same for the Pink Line too but cannot find it............

For those that are unsure where both lines will run.....

Lakegeneve,

This tread have been quiet for a while, it is possible for an update of the below, maybe combined with the above map?

Here's the updated time table for all the lines.

MRT Purple line - Bang Sue - Bang Yai - (23 km) - 99.35% - Operational in December 2015

MRT Blue line extension - Bang Sue - Tha Phra & Hua Lamphong - Bang Khae - (27 km) - 62.18% - Operational in April 2019

BTS Light Green line extension - Bearing - Samut Prakan - (12.8 km) - 54.95% - Operational in February 2018

BTS Light Green line extension - Mo Chit - Ku Kot - (18.4 km) - Construction 1st of June - Operational in February 2019

SRT Light Red line - Bang Sue - Tallin Chan - (15 km) - Operational in 2018

SRT Dark Red line - Bang Sue - Rangsit - (26 km) - 38.71% - Operational in 2018

SRT Red line - Bang Sue - Hua Mark & Bang Sue - Hua Lamphong - (25.5 km) - Preparing for cabinet approval - Operational in 2018

Airport Rail Link extension - Phaya Thai - Don Mueang - (21.8 km) - Preparing for cabinet approval - Operational in 2019

MRT Pink line Monorail - Kaerai - Minburi - (34.5 km) - Preparing for cabinet approval - Operational in 2020

MRT Yellow line Monorail - Lad Phrao - Samrong - (30.4 km) - Preparing for cabinet approval - Operational in 2020

MRT Orange line - Thai Cultural Center - Minburi & Phraram IX - Minburi - (38.5 km) - In the process of choosing the optimal route - Operational in 2020

MRT Purple line extension - Bang Sue - Rat Burana - (19.8 km) - Preparing for cabinet approval - Construction begins Sep 2016 - Operational in Sep 2020

BMA Grey line Monorail - Watcharapol - Thong Lo - (16.25 km) - Undergoing EIA, construction in Q4 2016 - Operational in 2019

SRT Dark Red line extension - Rangsit - Thammasat - (10 km) - Preparing for cabinet approval

MRT Blue line extension - Bang Khae - Phuttamonthon Sai 4 - Om Noi - (11 km) - Design study to be completed in August

BTS Dark Green line extension - Bang Wa - Tallin Chan - (19.8 km) - Design study to be completed this year

MRT Brown line extension - Kaerai - Lam Samli - (7 km) - Design study to be completed in August

[IsaanUSA]

This one is from late 2015

[IsaanUSA]

There's lots more pictures on other websites. Forum rules prohibit me posting links, and I'm not sure if we are allowed to post photos with Thai language exclusively. Just hop over to Sky Scraper City and go to the Thai forum, and click on Infrastructure. Many many photos, maps, and diagrams there.

[IsaanUSA]

[IsaanUSA]

Taken from Render Thailand's Facebook and I removed the Thai writing (as per ThaiVisa forum rules)

https://www.facebook.com/RenderThailand/posts/1699983216928567

[planr]

What's the latest on when the northern bus station is moving out of Bang Sue? I've got a good view of the whole construction area from my office tower and they seem to be making good progress with several new rail lines going in different directions, but right smack in the middle of everything is that bus station. Seems like they're going to have to move it soon or have to delay some work.

Mo Chit 2 as it is known is going to be the site for the Red LIne Depot. The Transport Company which runs the bus terminal (MOT) was meant to be giving the land back by the end of this year........

The new site was to be located on Vihavadi-Rangsit rd between DMK airport and Rangsit, not far from Zeer. Linked to the Dark Red Line. It had been selected and was a done deal. However, a few months ago an issue arose and now the site is being reviewed.

For the Eastern Bus terminal at Ekkamai, land was selected nearly 2 years ago on Bang Na Trat rd just 700m west of the Bang Na junction and what will be in the future be Asias largest shopping mall which will take up that huge block of vacant land on the NE corner. I'm not sure of the timeframe.

The Bangkok Mall (The Mall Group) is currently slated for completion in 2021... Would be surprised to see the bus station move before then.

[IsaanUSA]

[Lakegeneve]

Thanks Issan, I had actually thought that we had lost this thread in the migration as I had searched for it last week without any success.

 

That Chinese map is quite a good map, clean and geographically approximate. 

 

I promise to finally do that update very soon...........

[Lakegeneve]

Purple Line Opening: I took a ride on the Purple line a couple of hours after it opened on 6 August....waited for all the VIPs to clear out.

A few things to note.

1) Dwell times were much longer than necessary, often 2 to 3 times longer - 30-40 secs or nearly 1 min in some cases, that needs much improvement and it one of the reasons why the end to end journey time is longer than it should be

2) On the 3 different journey that I took, the drivers could not align the rolling stock doors to the half height platforms screens about 40% of the time. Not very good given all of the test runs that were conducted. Hopefully, that has improved by now?

3) Pax numbers are not near the projections for obvious reasons due to the missing link and inflated initial estimations. 

However, it should be noted that this occurred with the opening on the MRT in 2004, the Wong Wian Yai ext in 2009, the ARL in 2010, the Bearing ext in 2011. Basically, this happens every single time as it takes a while for pax habits to change but the demand will be there in 6 to 12 months.

4) Delayed opening Remember that the Purple line was originally due to open in early 2014. The 3 month flooding of the construction site in the 2011 floods somehow added 1 year to that! Subsequently, the delay by the BEM (then BMCL) in purchasing rolling stock added the extra 18 months as I have previously noted. (Forget the fact that the BMCL/BEM was originally meant to purchase new rolling stock for the MRT line in 2007!!!! 

 

In some respects 2.5 years delay is very normal in BKK given the years of delays with other projects! ( BTS Bearing ext opened 2 years late, Wong Wian Yai ext opened 2.5 years late etc, etc, etc)

[Crossy]

@Lakegeneve Item 2, nowt to do with the drivers (nor is the jerky running), trains are in full ATO, new software is due in September which is supposed to improve matters.

 

The "driver" normally just pushes the button to close the doors, if you get on a train that runs smoothly and stops in the right place chances are it's actually being driven.

 

No argument with your other points

[IsaanUSA]

7 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

Thanks Issan, I had actually thought that we had lost this thread in the migration as I had searched for it last week without any success.

 

 

Yeah, I had a little trouble finding it as well.  The new upgrade makes it hard for me to find my old posts

[dantilley]

17 hours ago, Lakegeneve said:

I promise to finally do that update very soon...........

 

Look forward to it. And please include the Airport Link in the update - would be good to know whether or not extra trains are being ordered, and if trains that are/were under maintenance will be returned to operation.

[Lakegeneve]

23 hours ago, Crossy said:

@Lakegeneve Item 2, nowt to do with the drivers (nor is the jerky running), trains are in full ATO, new software is due in September which is supposed to improve matters.

 

The "driver" normally just pushes the button to close the doors, if you get on a train that runs smoothly and stops in the right place chances are it's actually being driven.

 

No argument with your other points

Interesting Crossy, I assumed that they weren't operating ATO yet as it was really, really bad. 

[Lakegeneve]

On 12/2/2013 at 8:40 PM, Lakegeneve said:

I was have been thinking about this in recent weeks and intended to post this next week. However, it seems that now might be the relevant time.

The mass transit politics of dysfunction in the ongoing power struggle

One of the reasons that we have had such significant delays with the implementation of building new mass transit lines is that every time there is a political change it leads to a suspension of the previous process,with subsequent review, delay and then policy changes. (This is aside from the inter agency rivalry, incompetence and dysfunction that exists at the agency and dept decision maker level).

We run the same risk again currently even though most impending lines are at an advanced stage of the pre tender design and approval process.

First, some history. (I won't go into all the nuances & detail here, just give an overview from 05).

TRT 2005: When the Taksin govt was reelected in Feb 2005 the TRT's mass transport policy was essentially the same as the Dems given that both relied on OTP albeit some small differences mainly related to the timetable of which line would be built when. Thaksin promised to build all 10 lines within 3 years - of course no one believed that. The ARL did at least start construction in mid 05 though it had earlier been deferred for 2 years by Cabinet back in 03.

Coup govt 2006: When the coup occurred in Sept 2006 not one line had been approved or significantly progressed. Most of 2006 was lost to another election and political struggles. However, the BMA funded ext to WWY was being completed and the BMA did start work on the on Nut to Bearing ext in Aug 2006 just before the coup.

During the term of the coup appointed govt 3 lines (BTS Mo Chit ext, Purple Line central section, SRT Red Line, Blue Line ext) were approved by Cabinet with a promise to start work ASAP. The SRT Light Red Line was approved and contracted in mid 2007 but ended up being delayed for 20 months due to a contractual dispute and change of govt. However, nothing really advanced before the election of the PPP in late Dec 2007.

PPP 2008: The PPP essentially was elected on the previous TRT mass transit plan but later Samak came up with his Gold Ring Line idea (reportedly at a restaurant on the back of a napkin). Seemingly, in an attempt to out do Thaksins 05 promise, Samak stated that all lines would be built within 2 years! Patently, ludicrous. Given the PAD protests of 2008 and subsequent change in PM not much was really achieved during the 1 year government of the PPP. The same promises though that "lines would start construction next year" but the Newin members as then PPP were pushing the Purple line.

The BJP switch & the Dems 2009-11: the Dec 2008 switch by the Newin group as the newly named BJP after the PPP was dissolved thus forming a new govt with the Dems resulted in the BJP being handed the Transport Ministry. A number of BJP members had interest in property companies that were developing new housing projects in Nonthaburi. The northern section of the Purple line was thus first approved - as opposed to the original plans to build the middle section - and contracted. This caused much tension in the new govt with Abhisit even publicly stating in March 09 that the contract process was corrupted. Unprecedented (And I'll leave out the case of the BJP appointed Perm Sec who had a room full of cash in his house)! Work on the Purple Line started later in 2009. Work on the delayed SRT Light Red Line began in March 2009.

The Blue Line contracts were tendered in 2010 with work due to start in mid 2011 however some land appropriation issues and a change of govt at the mid 2011 election resulted in work commencing Sept 2011, then the 2011 floods hit. The Dark Red LIne was approved in early 2011 but eventually delayed a construction start due to a contract dispute. The BTS ext from Bearing to Samut Prakhan was contracted in June 2011 before the election. In late 2010 the BMA contracted the WWY to Bang Wah BTS ext with a strict 2 yr deadline for completion but main works did not start until mid 2011 and the floods then delayed construction.

This was actually a period of much advancement for new metro lines after the previous years & years of delay.

PT 2011: The election of the Yingluck PT govt meant that all lines were reviewed for a period of time and management changes were made at the MRTA. Work did start on the Blue LIne (as above) before the floods hit. The BTS Bearing ext started main works in April 2012. The Dark Red LIne finally started work in May this year along with the new Bang Sue Terminal.

Currently, the Orange Line, the Pink Monorail line, the BTS Mo Chit to Lam Lukka ext and the ARL ext are all either close to or planned to be tendered within the next 6 months. Two of these, the Pink & the Orange were originally planned to be tendered this year. The BMA is also planning to tender the Grey Monorail line next year but their timetable ambitious.

The uncertain future in the event of a change of govt: More delays....?

Given the current political turmoil and the potential either for a house dissolution and/or a change of govt, my fear is that we will again see the the pre tender process being delayed with any new government. Although the MRTA has now advanced a number of lines and the process should be immune from any political changes in government and or ministers the reality is that a change in govt will delay the process given that politicians always seek to leave their own footprint and exert influence on such projects.

In such circumstances even if half of the impending tenders (the Orange Line, the Pink Monorail line, the BTS Mo Chit ext and the ARL ext) actually took place next year we would be doing very well. If the current political tensions continue for some time and start to impact upon expenditure esp in regards to the 2.2 trillion loan bill then we might see significant delays.

On the issue of mass transit, one really does need to have low expectations in the BKK context.

 

Before posting an update over the weekend, I thought that it might be beneficial to repost some previous comments/updates for some context and to highlight the reality is that not much has really progressed in the last 3 years.

 

This was a comment from Dec 2013 regarding how the political turmoil and constant changes of govt had caused significant delays with each project.

[Lakegeneve]

On 3/15/2014 at 6:31 PM, Lakegeneve said:

It might be time to do that delayed 6 months update from Jan.....

A year ago it seemed that 2013 would be a seminal year for the expansion of the Bangkok metro system. The expectation was that at least 3 lines would be tendered and the peak glut of metro construction would continue into 2014 with 2 more new lines. A year ago, one would have anticipated that by early 2014 Bangkok would have 7 new lines or exts under construction – most likely with motorists all complaining about construction affected delays!

What a difference a year can make......

1) 2013: Political dysfunction continues to derail mass transit policy implementation
Alas, the last few months of political impasse and struggle had an immediate in delaying the Pink and Orange lines by 1 year – though both were perhaps not as ready as the MRTA had pretended. Belatedly, the MRTA realised that they needed to select the rolling stock for the Pink line, and Yellow Line, prior to the final design and tender.

In relation to the Orange line - a key line given the central east west axis to link all other lines (8 lines in all) that it provides - local community protests regarding the acquisition of land resulted in amended station footprint designs, mostly in relation to parking spaces.

The dissolution of parliament meant that the 2.2 trillion funding bill lapsed and last weeks Const Court ruling drove a clear nail in that funding coffin. Thus, funding for some lines is currently uncertain. However, in the context of the current political struggle that seems meaningless.

It was announced that the BMCL – operating of the Blue Line subway – had won the tender to operate the Purple Line. Soon after, a nearly 2 year delay from the original late 2015 (which then became 2016 after the 2011 floods) to 2017 in opening the line was announced. For the first time in BKK, a Japanese train manufacturer will supply rolling stock after the BMCL contracted them to supply 21 4 car sets for the Purple Line.

The ARL extension from Phaya Thai to DMK via Bang Sue Terminal was a priority according to the Minister in mid 2012 given the need to provide a mass transit link between both airports arising from the two airport policy decision in April of 2012. It was guaranteed to be tendered in 2013 but some redesign & integration issues has subsequently meant that this ext has quietly disappeared of the MOT political priority agenda.

The final 2 stations of the BTS Light Green line to Bang Wah were opened a year later than scheduled on 5 Dec. This meant that the last ext of the Silom line has been completed and gave the long suffering commuters along the Phetkasem corridor a quick semi-direct route into inner Bangkok. However, soon after the BMA announced that they were considering extending this line further north by 7km to Taling Chan thus linking with the SRT Light Red line. That ext is currently under evaluation. (Some informed conjecture that this will be the catalyst for eventually extending it further north and then east to become a large BTS loop line...... let’s see if this extension gets built first).

As with much of the history of mass transit in BKK 2013 was a year of 1 step forward, 3 steps back!

The one glimmer of good news: BTS Mo CHit ext gets tendered!
The only new ext/line that we can be seemingly certain will progress this year is the BTS Dark Green ext from Mo Chit to Lam Lukka with the tender documents released in Jan and a tender due in April.

For those living along the highly congested Phahonyothin corridor this was finally good news. It is worth remembering that the ext was originally envisaged to open by 2008 when the BTS first opened in 1999 (later promised again in the 2005 election). It is the only line to be tendered under this current government.

Every year since 2007, announcements were made that this ext would be tendered the following year. Every year!!! I could posts pages of quotes from politicians and senior decision makers. For those waiting for this ext to get started the wait has literally been painful if you endure Phahonyothin rd on a daily basis.

2) The crystal ball ..... political harmony and gradual expansion?
The Purple and Blue Line construction timetables are well advanced and on time. The delay to 2017 in opening the Purple line is perplexing in some respects and hopefully may change - Crossy who has a much better insight suggests a mid 2016 opening (above post). The BTS Dark Green ext from Bearing is also proceeding on schedule.

The SRT Dark Red line (technically a suburban/commutter line not a metro line) finally started work after a 2 year delay. The demolition of the Hopewell pillars offers both a practical and uniquely symbolic expression of progression. (Even if the demolition is taking longer than scheduled but perhaps that is also a metaphor for BKKs metro construction).

The Purple Line south extension has progressed significantly and is planned to be tendered in 2015 along with the BMA Grey Line if the BMA commits to this line. (And there is an interesting issue as to whether the BMA would select the same rolling stock as the MRTA for the Pink & Yellow lines to ensure some compatibility).

3) The pessimist - don't hold your breath!
The pessimistic view is that the political struggle and policy dysfunction continues for a longer period of time such that the expected 2013 tenders for 3 lines currently delayed to 2014 are further delayed into 2015 or even 2016! Basically, the next phase of lines & exts are delayed for 3-5 years.

The planned 2013 tenders (Pink, Orange & ARL ext) delayed until late 2014 are important to provide integrated links between lines and facilitate geographic expansion to new areas in BKK. This would have consolidated the framework of the Bangkok network by 2019. Thus, any further delay creates a domino consequence where the next batch of lines thereafter are similarly delayed.

2016 should have been a key year with the Purple Line, Blue Line, SRT Dark Red line and BTS Dark Green ext south all opening. Finally, creating a basic network covering much of the geographic area of Bangkok – save for the north east and south west corridors. However, with the Purple Line announced to a delayed 2017 opening and the Dark Red line looking to take longer to build, it may be that only half of the expected openings occur in 2016.

For now, tender timetables are all up in the air for the next batch of 5-6 lines until the political crisis is resolved.

(I won't even mention the next phase of political power struggle which will inevitably result in future delays.......)

 

 Then this post from March 2014 (ie. 2 months before the coup) highlighting was a year of lost opportunity that 2013 was after the then govt had promised so much!

 

Read the first sentence of 3) The pessimist, "The pessimistic view...." That became the reality!

[Lakegeneve]

On 6/16/2014 at 6:08 PM, Lakegeneve said:

Note: This should be read in the context of what is stated in post #290- 2 pages back

It appears that the Junta is going to proceed with the 10 line plan (it is a bipartisan plan after all!) after being briefed by OTP. They have been spruiking up new road projects but thankfully not completely forgotton about the importance of a good metro network.

As part of their proposed 3 trillion baht plan they will thankfully continue with metro expansion (delayed in the last year due to the political chaos). (PTs 2.2 trillion seemed a lot but take away 800 billion for HSR lines and then basically double that amount with new projects). They will continue funding the following new lines in the near term;

1) BTS ext Mo Chit to Lam Lukka (already under a delayed tender)

2) MRTA Pink Line monorail,

3) MRTA Orange line,

4) MRTA Yellow line monorail,

5) SRT Light Red line extension from Bang Sue to Hua Mark AND SRT Dark Red Line ext from Bang Sue to Hualamphong

6) ARL ext from Phaya Thai to DMK Airport

Remember that NO new lines were tendered during PTs 3 yr term in govt).

Analysis:

Pink & Yellow

The MRTA is still not ready to proceed with the delayed Pink line monorail (2013 tender) nor the Yellow line monorail which was previously to be scheduled by the end of 2014 due to needing to chose rolling stock first which will dictate the final design. (Different monorail stock require different track design). I would not expect either of these line to be tendered by the end of the year. I'll note again that both of these lines were originally planned to be heavy rail lines (ie. as the current subway/BTS) but were stupidly changed to reduce cost (and due to lobbying by a couple of monorail companies). (Sophon also stated at one stage 10 days ago that the Pink Line was not necessary!)

SRT Red lines

The SRT Red Line extensions are a mixed bag. The positive is to tender the Dark Red Line ext from Bang Sue to Hualamphong (this line will eventually be extended to WWY & Mahachai) well before the current construction of the Dark Red line is complete. I can't really see the SRT getting a tender for this ext together before early next year.

The negative is the ongoing stupidity of the plan to extend the Light Red line to run adjacent to and follow the ARL line!!! This makes no sense at all and is yet another example of the lack of coordination by different agencies having their own plans - though the Master Plan does integrate them all. Basically, you'll end up with a narrow gauge SRT line running exactly alongside the standard gauge ARL line - they will even have different stations!!!

The SRT Light Red line has been open for nearly 2 years now. It only runs 6 services a day from Bang Bon to Taling Chan! The line cannot be completed until the final section to Bang Sue is built which is years away. The SRT has not ordered rolling stock for this line and the plan to electrify it is awaiting funds. A further 10km extension west to Salaya is of great demand as is the spur line to Thonburi station (which should really be foregone in favour of extending the Orange line to as was the original plan). The remedy would be to convert this line to standard gauge and electrify it. Then, extend the ARL City Line to Bang Sue where it would then run on the Light Red line. You would eventually end up with a SRTET ARL City Line running from Salaya via Bang Sue & Phaya Thai to the Airport.

One line is all that is needed, not duplication with two different lines!

Orange & ARL ext to DMK

Some redesign work was required on the Orange line for a few stations where residents objected to the large station footprint (read compulsory acquisition of land and missing out on increased land prices) which has mainly been done. This line should be ready to be tendered soon and could have a contract signed by the end of the year if there are no more silly delays by the MRTA.

The ARL ext is beyond urgent. It was said 2 years ago by the then Minister that it was a priority after the 2 airport policy was decided upon in April 2012. Design work is all done save for a potential modifications to integrate with the Dark Red line (which itself had some design modifications to integrate with the ARL ext). A tender was definite by mid 2013, then before the end of 2013. Realistically, this should be able to be tendered by the end of 2014 with a 4 year construction time frame.

In summary, it seems that the BTS ext will be tendered by Sept. I would hazard a guess that there is a good chance that the Orange Line and ARL ext could be tendered by the end of 2014 if the MRT & SRT & MOT can finalise the respective tenders. That probably would not be such a bad outcome after the delays of the last 18 months and that is has been 3 years since a line/ext was last tendered (the BTS ext from Bearing to Samut Prakhan).

We'll have to wait and see........

 

And finally, a brief overview from mid 2014 of what will be the next batch of lines. ie. we are still waiting for a tender.............unfortunately my summary was too optimistic at that time!

[Crossy]

LG, I know your pain.

 

I and the relatively small group of engineers who work on these projects are constantly frustrated at the indecision, re-thinking, politics and lack of progress on these jobs. Even when they do start they tend to go off at a tangent from the original concepts.

 

I personally have worked on at least 4 iterations of the Red Line over the last 12 years or so, and what they're actually building doesn't look like any of them

 

Don't even get me started on the concept of a single transit card for the entire system, something I've been trying to get off the ground since the BTS changed to smart cards (2005) ...

 

Such is life.

 

I charge a lot to design the systems, I charge even more to fix them when my first advice was ignored

 

 

[Crossy]

Here we go with the Red Line http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Hitachi-vows-on-time-train-carriage-delivery-for-R-30293885.html

 

Apparently they're having an "Autonomic Ticketing System" better read up on that new technology.

 

Along with the Green Line should pay off the mortgage and get a new motor.

 

I may be able to afford to retire yet

[robblok]

On 26-8-2016 at 2:59 PM, Crossy said:

LG, I know your pain.

 

I and the relatively small group of engineers who work on these projects are constantly frustrated at the indecision, re-thinking, politics and lack of progress on these jobs. Even when they do start they tend to go off at a tangent from the original concepts.

 

I personally have worked on at least 4 iterations of the Red Line over the last 12 years or so, and what they're actually building doesn't look like any of them

 

Don't even get me started on the concept of a single transit card for the entire system, something I've been trying to get off the ground since the BTS changed to smart cards (2005) ...

 

Such is life.

 

I charge a lot to design the systems, I charge even more to fix them when my first advice was ignored

 

 

I am sure its not a technical thing.. but the profit sharing thing (who keeps the money that is not dived yet.. what is the key to dividing it ect). Plus of-course it would be beneficial to the traveler.. so they might lose a bit (but might get more travelers)

[Crossy]

19 hours ago, robblok said:

I am sure its not a technical thing.. but the profit sharing thing (who keeps the money that is not dived yet.. what is the key to dividing it ect). Plus of-course it would be beneficial to the traveler.. so they might lose a bit (but might get more travelers)

 

Ah, the mysteries of clearing and apportionment

 

Generally, the float (money loaded on cards but not yet used) is held by the card issuer, in the case of the Blue Line this is BEM, in the case of the Purple Line it's MRTA. In the West the float is generally held in a non-interest bearing account (law prevents the issuer making money on it).

 

Travel made on the "other" line is cleared by the back office system and at the end of each day a balance is transferred to / from each service provider.

 

If travel involves two lines (like the Purple / Blue once the missing-link is found) then the business rules determine how the fare is divided up. The business rules are defined during the commercial negotiations between the parties.

 

All the above is achieved by a single 19" rack of servers etc. and some very complex software that ensures everything is accounted for and detects potential fraud attempts etc etc.

 

There, four two line paragraphs to describe what it takes several documents an inch thick to specify

 

 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

Ah, the mysteries of clearing and apportionment

 

Generally, the float (money loaded on cards but not yet used) is held by the card issuer, in the case of the Blue Line this is BEM, in the case of the Purple Line it's MRTA. In the West the float is generally held in a non-interest bearing account (law prevents the issuer making money on it), in Thailand there is no such law.

 

Travel made on the "other" line is cleared by the back office system and at the end of each day a balance is transferred to / from each service provider.

 

If travel involves two lines (like the Purple / Blue once the missing-link is found) then the business rules determine how the fare is divided up.

 

There, four two line paragraphs to describe what it takes a document an inch thick to specify

 

 

 

Im an accountant.. i get the point of the float money.. that is for a large part why they don't want a general cart.. they dont want to divide that money. 

 

Also i think there might be some distrust and disagreement on how the fare is divided up. It will be hard to get those companies to work together for the benefit of the consumer.

 

Yes I know what you mean that it will be hard to specify and that it takes loads of paper. Lets hope it will ever get of the ground. 

 

 

[Lakegeneve]

On 3/15/2014 at 7:25 PM, Lakegeneve said:

This is only a summary list and obviously subject to change. Plans will change, dates are never met when it comes to mass transit implementation, politics and dysfunction abounds in this policy area especially given the current political impasse.

Note that numbers indicate projects NOT lines and is an attempt to be reflective of stages of expansion. A listing could be a 1.2km ext or a 59km ext! Feel free to ask any queries but pls don't copy the whole list in your post!

BANGKOK METRO/SUBURBAN NETWORK - SUMMARY LIST

A) RECENTLY OPENED
1) BTS Light Green Line (Silom line) from Talat Phlu (S10) to Bang Wah 2.8km, 2 stations (5 Dec 2013)

LINES/EXTS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION
2) MRTA Blue Line ext from Bang Sue to Taopoon: 1.2km, 1 station
(to open in 2015/6)

3) MRTA Purple Line from Taopoon to Bang Yai: 23km, 16 stations (Opening 2017)
As of Jan 2014 civil works construction were 85% complete. Website: http://www.mrta-purpleline.com

4) MRTA Blue Line ring ext (subway) Bang Khae/Phetkasem rd ext: (Opening late 2016/2017 – civil works progress 46%)
a) Bang Sue - Tha Phra, 13.1 km, 7 elevated stations,
b ) Hua Lamphong - Lak Song, 13.9 km , 7 elevated & 4 underground stations.
Website: http://www.mrta-blueline.com/

5) BTS Dark Green line (Suk Line) Bearing to Paknam ext (MRTA): 12.6km, 7 stations (Work started mid 2012, opens 2016) Website: http://www.mrta-greenline.net/

6) SRT Dark Red Line suburban line from Bang Sue to Rangsit: 26km, 8 stations* (Started March 2013, opens 2016/17).
*SRT Dark Red Line is metre gauge, electric.

7) New Intercity terminal at Bang Sue for all N, NE and S SRT intercity trains, Airport Line extension and both SRT Red Lines. (Construction started May, opening 2017?)

C) LINES CURRENTLY UNDER TENDER
8) BTS Dark Green line (northern ext) (Original completion date was 2008!).
a) Mo Chit to Saphan Mai ext ( MRTA): 11.4km, 11 stations,
Saphan Mai to Kukot/Lam Lukka rd: 6.8km, 5 stations .
Tender by April with contracts to be signed in October. Website: http://www.mrta-greenline.net/

D) LINES/EXTS TO BE TENDERED IN 2014?
9) MRTA Orange Line: 36km, 29 stations (22 underground, 7 elevated) - . Phase 1 TCC (current Thai Cultural Center station) to Minburi (tender end of 2014, Open 2019).
Website: http://www.mrta-orangeline.net/

10) MRTA Pink Line (monorail): Khae Rai intersection to Miniburi via Pakred, Chaeng Wattana & Ram Inthra

36km, 30 stations. (should be heavy rail). http://www.mrta.co.th/pinkline/index.html

11) MRTA Yellow Line (Monorail): 30.4km, 21 stations. Phase 1 Latphrao to Hua Mark. (was previously heavy rail underground) http://www.mrta-yellowline.com/

12) Airport Rail Link (ARL) extension from Phayathai to Bangsue to Don Meaung (DMK): 21.8km, 5 stations

E) LINES/EXTS TO BE TENDERED IN 2015?
13) Purple Line ext south. Taopoon to WWY then to Ratburna: 23.6 km. 17 stations (12.6km 10 stations underground, 11km 7 stations elevated)
14) SRT Light Red line extension: Taling Chan to Salaya, 12km, 5 stations *SRT Light Red is metre gauge, diesel.
15) MRTA Grey Monorail Line: 26km, 21 stations. Rama 9 Bridge to Kaset-Nawamin/Ram Inthra. (BMA is completing an EIA) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRT_Grey_Line

F) NEXT BATCH OF LINES/EXTs (2016-2019) - assuming that all goes well in the next 18 months

16) MRTA Yellow Line (Monorail) Phase 2: 30.4km, 21 stations. Phase 2 Hua Mark to Samrong.
17) Orange Line Phase 2, west section: From TCC to Bang Khunnon (Charan Sawitwong rd)
18) SRT Dark Red Line north ext suburban line from Rangsit to Thammasat Uni: 8.5kms, 4 stations (2015-2017)
19) SRT Light Red Line spur line from Taling Chan to Thonburi station (Siraj) – duplicates some of the Orange line so it would more sensible to just extend the Orange line to Taling Chan.
20) BTS Light Green (Silom Line) west: 1-2 station ext west from National Stadium to Krung Kasem rd to link with the future SRT Dark Red Line.
21) Blue Line west ext to Phutthamonthon sai 4: 8km, 4 stations
22) SRT Dark Red Line south ext: 59 km, 22 stations
a) Bang Sue to Hualumphong to Wong Wian Yai, 7 stations
WWY to Mahachai, 15 stations

G) THEREAFTER OR UNDER STUDY (2020 >)

23) Brown Monorail Line: 20.5km, 21 stations. Monorail Khae Rai intersection along Ngam Wong Wan, Kaset-Namawin to Beung Kum, Minburi (currently under study by OTP) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRT_Brown_Line
24) BTS Dark Green (Sukhumvit) line south from Paknam to Bang Pu: 4 stations (planned)
25) BTS Light Green (Silom) line from Bang Wah to Taling Chan: 7km, 6 stations (currently being evaluated by the BMA)
26) BTS Dark Green (Sukhumvit) line north ext: from Kukot to Outer Ring rd, 4 stations (planned)
27) MRTA Purple Line north ext : 4.5km ext to Sai Noi intersection (being evaluated by Nonthaburi province).
28) BTS Dark Green (Sukhumvit) spur line from Udom Suk to Central Bang Na & BKK Airport (planned)
29) MRTA Light Blue Line: 9.5km, 9 stations. Monorail. Sathon to Pracha Songkhro. (TBC)

H) More future monorails?
30) Bang Sue Railyard redevelopment monorail loop
31) Makkasan Railyard redevelopment monorail loop
32) Chula Uni Monorail project (was under study but the BMA said no last month)
33) Samut Prakhan monorail line: Paknam to BKK Airport (Under study)

 

 This was the last update from March 2014 - just before the coup - which will give you an idea of what has, and mainly hasn't happened since that time.

 

Again, it is good to read the posts #499, #500 & #501 for some historical context.

[Lakegeneve]

The usual caveat....this is only a summary and all is subject to change. Politics, dysfunction and a lack of coordination abounds in the implementation of mass transit policy and projects. 

Please note that numbers only refer to projects/lines or expected extensions loosely based on future plans - numbers have nothing to do with the MOT/OTP master plan.

 

A few issues to note;

1) Tenders are finally out for the Pink and Yellow monorail lines and the MRTA Orange Line. They were meant to be tendered in 2013, then 2014 then by June this year and well finally there is some progress. We may even see contracts signed by the end of 2017! If work does start next year on these 3 lines it mean significant progress as all lines are cross town links whcih will really form the basis of a proper network. (Do note my problems with monorail for both the pink and yellow lines).

2) The contractors for the Dark Red Line and new Bang Sue Terminal have requested for extensions to the completion date of between 1 to 3 years respectively. The Terminal really needs to open to make bothe the SRT suburban Red Lines viable. Added is the delay with the ARL extension to DMK and the issue of the Light Red extension to Hua Mark which I have discussed above. 

3) There are a bunch of new monorail proposals which I have not included, eg Gold Line on the west bank of the river to link the BTS and Purple lines. Aside from the MRTA lines, I have only included the 3 proposals listed at the end which have been around for many years.

 

Feel free to ask queries as they are a few people here with specialist knowledge but pls don't quote the whole list if you do post a query.

 

BANGKOK METRO & SUBURBAN NETWORK - SUMMARY LIST UPDATED 

 

       A)   RECENTLY OPENED:
1) MRTA Purple Line from Taopoon to Bang Yai: 23km, 16 stations (6 August 2016) http://www.mrta-purpleline.com

B ) LINES/EXTS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
2) MRTA Blue Line ext from Bang Sue to Taopoon: 1.2km, 1 station 
(to open by end of 2016/early 2017???)
3) MRTA Blue Line ring ext (subway) Bang Khae/Phetkasem rd ext: (Opening late 2018/2019 – civil works progress 46%)
a) Bang Sue - Tha Phra, 13.1 km, 7 elevated stations,
b ) Hua Lamphong - Lak Song, 13.9 km , 7 elevated & 4 underground stations.
Website: http://www.mrta-blueline.com/
4) BTS Dark Green line (Suk Line) Bearing to Paknam ext (MRTA): 12.6km, 7 stations (Work started mid 2012, 1^st stage opens mid 2017 –2nd stage 2018 - civil works progress 88%). 

       Website: http://www.mrta-greenline.net/
5) SRT Dark Red Line suburban line from Bang Sue to Rangsit: 26km, 8 stations* (Started March 2013, opens 2019/20 - civil works progress 68%). 
*SRT Dark Red Line is metre gauge, electric. 
6) New Intercity terminal at Bang Sue for all N, NE and S SRT intercity trains, Airport Line extension and both SRT Red Lines.

       (Construction started May 2014, opening 2019/20 - civil works progress 47%). 
7) BTS Dark Green line (northern ext) (Original completion date was 2008!). 
a) Mo Chit to Saphan Mai ext ( MRTA): 11.4km, 11 stations, 

b ) Saphan Mai to Kukot/Lam Lukka rd: 6.8km, 5 stations .
(Construction started late 2015, opening in 2019 - civil works progress 9%).  Website: http://www.mrta-greenline.net/
 

C ) LINES CURRENTLY UNDER TENDER:

 

8) MRTA Orange Line: 36km, 29 stations (22 underground, 7 elevated) - . Phase 1 TCC (current Thai Cultural Center station) to Minburi (4-5 year construction).
Website: http://www.mrta-orangeline.net/
9) MRTA Pink Line (monorail): Khae Rai intersection to Miniburi via Pakred, Chaeng Wattana & Ram Inthra 36km, 30 stations. (should be heavy rail). http://www.mrta.co.th/pinkline/index.html
10) MRTA Yellow Line (Monorail): 30.4km, 21 stations. Phase 1 Latphrao to Hua Mark. (was previously heavy rail underground) http://www.mrta-yellowline.com/

 

D) LINES/EXTS TO BE TENDERED IN 2016?

            11) Airport Rail Link (ARL) extension from Phayathai to Bangsue to Don Meaung (DMK): 21.8km, 5 stations 

E) LINES/EXTS TO BE TENDERED IN 2017-2019?
12) Purple Line ext south. Taopoon to WWY then to Ratburna: 23.6 km. 17 stations (12.6km 10 stations underground, 11km 7 stations elevated)

13) SRT Dark Red Line north ext suburban line from Rangsit to Thammasat Uni: 8.5kms, 4 stations

14) Blue Line west ext to Phutthamonthon sai 4: 8km, 4 stations elevated

15) SRT Light Red line extension: Taling Chan to Salaya, 12km, 5 stations *SRT Light Red is metre gauge, diesel.
16) MRTA Grey Monorail Line: 26km, 21 stations. Rama 9 Bridge to Kaset-Nawamin/Ram Inthra. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRT_Grey_Line

F) NEXT BATCH OF LINES/EXTs (2020>) - assuming that all goes well in the next 2-3 years
17) MRTA Yellow Line (Monorail) Phase 2: 30.4km, 21 stations. Phase 2 Hua Mark to Samrong.
18) Orange Line Phase 2, west section: From TCC to Bang Khunnon (Charan Sawitwong rd)
19) SRT Light Red Line spur line from Taling Chan to Thonburi station (Siraj) – duplicates the Orange line so it would more sensible to just extend the Orange line to Taling Chan.
20) BTS Light Green (Silom Line) west: 1-2 station ext west from National Stadium to Krung Kasem rd to link with the future SRT Dark Red Line.
21) SRT Dark Red Line south ext: 59 km, 22 stations
a) Bang Sue to Hualumphong to Wong Wian Yai, 7 stations
b ) WWY to Mahachai, 15 stations

22) SRT Light Red ext from Bang Sue to Hua Mark, 7 stations (duplicates the ARL line)

G) THEREAFTER OR UNDER STUDY (2025 >)

23) Brown Monorail Line: 20.5km, 21 stations. Monorail Khae Rai intersection along Ngam Wong Wan, Kaset-Namawin to Beung Kum, Minburi (currently under study by OTP)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRT_Brown_Line
24) BTS Dark Green (Sukhumvit) line south from Paknam to Bang Pu: 4 stations (planned)
25) BTS Light Green (Silom) line from Bang Wah to Taling Chan: 7km, 6 stations (still being evaluated by the BMA) 
26) BTS Dark Green (Sukhumvit) line north ext: from Kukot to Outer Ring rd, 4 stations (planned)
27) MRTA Purple Line north ext : 4.5km ext to Sai Noi intersection (being evaluated by Nonthaburi province).
28) BTS Dark Green (Sukhumvit) spur line from Udom Suk to Central Bang Na & BKK Airport (planned)
29) MRTA Light Blue Line: 9.5km, 9 stations. Monorail. Sathon to Pracha Songkhro. (TBC)

H) Future monorails? 
30) Bang Sue Railyard redevelopment monorail loop
31) Makkasan Railyard redevelopment monorail loop
33) Samut Prakhan monorail line: Paknam to BKK Airport (Under study)

 

Edited August 30, 2016 by Lakegeneve
corrections

[Lakegeneve]

A couple of useful graphics from the BTS Group which provides a clear overview of the 2 BTS exts and the lines currently under tender.

 

[Lakegeneve]

Finally, the maps.........what exists now and what is being built (no need to repost the map that Isan posted on the previous page)

 

A useful timeline map of the gradual opening of lines

 

Thanks to https://www.facebook.com/RenderThailand/

 

Lastly, Arch Students useful network map in english (couldn't find an updated one)