That's because 90% of Fox viewers are redneck and/or trailer trash couch potatoes that sit and watch TV all day.

Why is calling Bush a Texan idiot inflamatory? If it is because the truth hurts, then the injured readers need to toughen up.

I wonder if this is the sort of inflammatory post Koheesti is referring to?

I would consider the quoted post more of the troll type, hoping to get an angry reaction.

_________________________________________________________

Mark:

Good response on the Fox News viewers. I doubt it will keep the trolls quiet, however.

Are you trying to say that you wish this thread to morph into such a discussion, as opposed to your submission that you wanted a new forum for this? This thread is not such a locale since by definition it does not have such a topic.

Concision and precision would be most welcome.

Regards

No, I would like a response to your previous post and an admission that you were wrong and an apology.

Thank you very much.

Have we reached a consensus yet ladies? Only I'm ready to post my poll entitled 'What do American voters look for in their next President?'

:cheesy:

Just like a rubber band.

:cheesy:

Just like a rubber band.

Fishing for insults? Easier than thought eh?

Oddly I wonder sometimes if the web is just reinforcing divisions, as opposed to creating bridges.

It can do both but I see what you mean.

Whether people are swayed to change their minds or not, at least they (we) are exposed to different, often extreme, points of view. You don't get that reading only the New York Times or watching Fox News of MSNBC (for those who haven't heard of it, MSNBC is an American cable news channel that leans the opposite direction of Fox News and gets maybe 10% of the ratings)

Some ideas are presented better, more civilly than others and stand a better chance of being accepted by the "other side". The divisions are reinforced when the tone used is something inflammatory like "The Texas Village Idiot" or "Israeli genocide against the Palestinians". It makes me think that the other person will never consider anything than what they already believe. On the other side, would a supporter of Obama's policies be more willing to listen to someone who started out with, "President Obama is...." or "That n*****- Prez is..."? I know I sure wouldn't read any further if it started with the latter one even though I'm not be an Obama supporter. So not only can the tone hurt the chances of a new idea being accepted by the other side, it can also make it unaccepted by people on your own side of the political debate.

That's because 90% of Fox viewers are redneck and/or trailer trash couch potatoes that sit and watch TV all day.

Why is calling Bush a Texan idiot inflamatory? If it is because the truth hurts, then the injured readers need to toughen up.

I would like to thank Harcourt for providing us with a perfect example.

Not in OTB but in some forums calling Fox news viewers redneck, trailer trash couch potatoes might be considered an anti American flame.

I realize that since advertising is sold by the number of times a target market is exposed to an ad that accurate demographics are available for most TV shows. Advertising agencies even give clients free advertising if the show does not reach the predicted demographic a certain number of times.

So it was easy to disprove Harcourt's claim.

If his post was removed my response to his post would also be deleted.

Why is this a problem? Because his post and my reply demonstrate some things. Harcourt does not know anything about American media and I do.

If the other posters are exposed to post after post of prejudiced misinformation about America from one poster they begin to remember his name and realize he rarely knows what he is talking about. And that is the point I was trying to make.

Again, Harcourt thank you for the example.

Are Americans generally too sensitive? Maybe the whinging & whining gets old after the1000th time? Or maybe Americans - like 2-3 other nationalities that come to mind - don't shy away from confrontation. Many nationalities will avoid confrontation, stare at the ground and be silent and call it a virtue. Others don't.

If you're the big boy in the playground it goes with the territory. If you'd been reading TV 150 years ago it would have been full of Brit bashing.

Agreed. I was going to write up what a thread might look like where posters were bashing England, or the ancient Egyptians but too tired and lacked time.

Oddly I wonder sometimes if the web is just reinforcing divisions, as opposed to creating bridges.

It can do both but I see what you mean.

Whether people are swayed to change their minds or not, at least they (we) are exposed to different, often extreme, points of view. You don't get that reading only the New York Times or watching Fox News of MSNBC (for those who haven't heard of it, MSNBC is an American cable news channel that leans the opposite direction of Fox News and gets maybe 10% of the ratings)

Some ideas are presented better, more civilly than others and stand a better chance of being accepted by the "other side". The divisions are reinforced when the tone used is something inflammatory like "The Texas Village Idiot" or "Israeli genocide against the Palestinians". It makes me think that the other person will never consider anything than what they already believe. On the other side, would a supporter of Obama's policies be more willing to listen to someone who started out with, "President Obama is...." or "That n*****- Prez is..."? I know I sure wouldn't read any further if it started with the latter one even though I'm not be an Obama supporter. So not only can the tone hurt the chances of a new idea being accepted by the other side, it can also make it unaccepted by people on your own side of the political debate.

That's because 90% of Fox viewers are redneck and/or trailer trash couch potatoes that sit and watch TV all day.

Why is calling Bush a Texan idiot inflamatory? If it is because the truth hurts, then the injured readers need to toughen up.

I would like to thank Harcourt for providing us with a perfect example.

If you really appreciate such unfounded, stereotypical comments, you are really going to LOVE Outside the Box.

Well, it took longer than I thought for the american Cabal to start blasting and the lone sniper firing back, with a few UN peace Keepers trying to properly keep or order and debate diverse issues in a chaotic state.

Mark, I understand your POV, but earlier in the thread you were really making it sound it was all about you being censored, not other peoples views and your responses.

However, I also find it amusing regarding those that insist they can debate, but when called out to do so, retort with, 'you don't like me, so I will not talk any further',

Sound familliar anyone?

However, I also find it amusing regarding those that insist they can debate, but when called out to do so, retort with, 'you don't like me, so I will not talk any further',

Sound familliar anyone?

The PLO?

Crickey, I never knew my comrades on the West Bank were contributing to this thread

Well, it took longer than I thought for the american Cabal to start blasting and the lone sniper firing back, with a few UN peace Keepers trying to properly keep or order and debate diverse issues in a chaotic state.

Mark, I understand your POV, but earlier in the thread you were really making it sound it was all about you being censored, not other peoples views and your responses.

However, I also find it amusing regarding those that insist they can debate, but when called out to do so, retort with, 'you don't like me, so I will not talk any further',

Sound familliar anyone?

Its best to generalise first before sticking the boot in....then you can blame everyone else. Refuse to talk to them as well....until they slip up and then go in for the kill.

Much more fun than debating the OP in political matters.....why doesn't everyone see that my point of view is the only correct path? Such stupidity!!

See I've learnt plenty from reading this forum.

EDIT: Oops I forgot to form an alliance.....now I'll be attacked from all sides!

Well, it took longer than I thought for the american Cabal to start blasting and the lone sniper firing back, with a few UN peace Keepers trying to properly keep or order and debate diverse issues in a chaotic state.

Mark, I understand your POV, but earlier in the thread you were really making it sound it was all about you being censored, not other peoples views and your responses.

However, I also find it amusing regarding those that insist they can debate, but when called out to do so, retort with, 'you don't like me, so I will not talk any further',

Sound familliar anyone?

Its best to generalise first before sticking the boot in....then you can blame everyone else. Refuse to talk to them as well....until they slip up and then go in for the kill.

Much more fun than debating the OP in political matters.....why doesn't everyone see that my point of view is the only correct path? Such stupidity!!

See I've learnt plenty from reading this forum.

EDIT: Oops I forgot to form an alliance.....now I'll be attacked from all sides!

I was debating one poster once upon a time. I wasn't trying to make a point I was only trying to get in the last word. He was a poster who had to have the last word. He finally put me on his ignore list. Or the ones who leave a particular forum because of insult. They can't compete so they leave. It seems so terribly difficult for some people to admit error. I have never understood this. Earlier in this thread a poster was wrong about something I had written. I pointed it out to him and asked for an apology. That's what I would do. If I am wrong and that does happen I simply say, sorry and move on.

There are posters on Thai Visa that are difficult to debate with. One poster implied that Russia had a free and accurate press. Google journalists killed in Russia. It is more dangerous to be a reporter in Russia than a truck driver in Iraq. Then there are the Chinese lovers. Do they really have a brain? China is eventually going to take over and I guess everyone will get a chance to see what it is like to live under a corrupt dictatorship.

I think it is time for America to take off the gloves and fight back. Why should I be nice to people who are not nice to me? Why should America? When allies stop acting like allies it is time to call a spade a spade. If NZ does not want American warships with nukes to dock. Good for them. When some bloke comes along and tries trying to take over Kiwi land let them defend the place alone. Love me love my dog.

I was debating one poster once upon a time. I wasn't trying to make a point I was only trying to get in the last word. He was a poster who had to have the last word. He finally put me on his ignore list. Or the ones who leave a particular forum because of insult. They can't compete so they leave. It seems so terribly difficult for some people to admit error. I have never understood this. Earlier in this thread a poster was wrong about something I had written. I pointed it out to him and asked for an apology. That's what I would do. If I am wrong and that does happen I simply say, sorry and move on.

There are posters on Thai Visa that are difficult to debate with. One poster implied that Russia had a free and accurate press. Google journalists killed in Russia. It is more dangerous to be a reporter in Russia than a truck driver in Iraq. Then there are the Chinese lovers. Do they really have a brain? China is eventually going to take over and I guess everyone will get a chance to see what it is like to live under a corrupt dictatorship.

I think it is time for America to take off the gloves and fight back. Why should I be nice to people who are not nice to me? Why should America? When allies stop acting like allies it is time to call a spade a spade. If NZ does not want American warships with nukes to dock. Good for them. When some bloke comes along and tries trying to take over Kiwi land let them defend the place alone. Love me love my dog.

Its not necessary to leave this forum to find polarised viewpoints with posters unwilling to discuss a subject matter subjectively without referring to previous arguments taking the whole thread off topic.

As yousaid these posters know...and simply don't care as its not their fault. Its the other guy. Why won't he/they simply shut up?

It would help a lot if some posters here realised there are many differing views on American policy be it domestic or international. With America being a world leader and its permittance of reasonably free speech both within and outside the country it invites criticism. Shouldn't be such a problem for Americans...in fact you should be proud of the fact.

As to replying to the criticism you have my backing on this for sure. I'd love to hear reasoned answers to some of the barracking the US receives on here rather than personal insults and abuse flying around.

Another example that fits the stereo-type:http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/423593-where-are-the-americans/

A few things:

1) Most Americans in that thread seem quite happy to carry on with the topic as it was meant to be, asking where the Americans in Thailand are without getting bogged down in the defensiveness. They seemed to be in the majority.

2) The inevitable (we won WWII) comment arose. Thankfully there were few bites on that.

3) The first person to use the term 'septic' in that thread was an American. The word did not not occur a single time before that. Further posts on the matter were in no way offensive but descriptive about the origin.

What mark was trying to say in his OP would make sense here. Take out the few with their hyper-sensitivities and let them talk about the word 'septic' or who won the war elsewhere, and the rest of the thread would tick along nicely. Kind of like a sanctuary for those with fragile egos.

I am in no way *listerine myself, but it can be irritating at times.

And I've just noticed that thread has now been closed.

*Listerine = anti-septic

I've heard rumours that an American Pride parade will be held in Chiang Mai soon.

I'll certainly be attending to support these wonderful people in their campaign for acceptance and equality.

Oddly I wonder sometimes if the web is just reinforcing divisions, as opposed to creating bridges.

It can do both but I see what you mean.

Whether people are swayed to change their minds or not, at least they (we) are exposed to different, often extreme, points of view. You don't get that reading only the New York Times or watching Fox News of MSNBC (for those who haven't heard of it, MSNBC is an American cable news channel that leans the opposite direction of Fox News and gets maybe 10% of the ratings)

Some ideas are presented better, more civilly than others and stand a better chance of being accepted by the "other side". The divisions are reinforced when the tone used is something inflammatory like "The Texas Village Idiot" or "Israeli genocide against the Palestinians". It makes me think that the other person will never consider anything than what they already believe. On the other side, would a supporter of Obama's policies be more willing to listen to someone who started out with, "President Obama is...." or "That n*****- Prez is..."? I know I sure wouldn't read any further if it started with the latter one even though I'm not be an Obama supporter. So not only can the tone hurt the chances of a new idea being accepted by the other side, it can also make it unaccepted by people on your own side of the political debate.

That's because 90% of Fox viewers are redneck and/or trailer trash couch potatoes that sit and watch TV all day.

Why is calling Bush a Texan idiot inflamatory? If it is because the truth hurts, then the injured readers need to toughen up.

This is a perfect example of a kiwi that likes to bait or begs to be flammed and then calls foul when he is called on the ignorance of his post.

I've just had a quick browse through a couple of those threads and what I see isn't American bashing.

What I see is criticism aimed at America, which seems to hit the uber-sensitive nerves of some Americans who seem to take it personally. A lot of the stuff seems quite reasonable.

Start a thread about Britain's involvement in Iraq and it won't be long before somebody says that we were a mere lapdog to Bush. You won't get many complaining and taking it personally, if anything you will find Brits agreeing and joining in. Even cracking jokes about it.

It isn't "bashing" per-say, it is criticism and regardless of what some people may think, America is not above criticism.

Alot of the so called america bashing is not bashing at all. as you say it is their oversensitivity to any kind of criticism

most flaming on the forum results from a poster not agreeing with someone elses point of view

thais also cant take criticism ( taught not to challenge what is seen as perceived wisdom) but they tend to just walk away to avoid the conflict

Even the mention of the word "sensitive" brings out defensiveness.

Talk about sensitive.

touche

Even the mention of the word "sensitive" brings out defensiveness.

Talk about sensitive.

touche

Touche in this instance meaning I didn't read the OP because I can't be bothered by common courtesy or factual information that contradicts my long held bigoted beliefs.

I never said not to bash Americans. I never said I minded people expressing negative views about America.

I never said you can't have an opinion contradictory to mine.

I never said any of that. Get off the anti American sensitivity thing here. It is not what the thread is about.

I said move the anti American post to a forum where they can be discussed without dragging down every topic under the sun to silly nationalist bigoted shouting match.

Even the mention of the word "sensitive" brings out defensiveness.

Talk about sensitive.

touche

Touche in this instance meaning I didn't read the OP because I can't be bothered by common courtesy or factual information that contradicts my long held bigoted beliefs.

I never said not to bash Americans. I never said I minded people expressing negative views about America.

I never said you can't have an opinion contradictory to mine.

I never said any of that. Get off the anti American sensitivity thing here. It is not what the thread is about.

I said move the anti American post to a forum where they can be discussed without dragging down every topic under the sun to silly nationalist bigoted shouting match.

Have just looked at your profile and some of your latest posts, so I wont reply to your response. Flame me again and whether Bedlam or not it will be reported

caf

I've just had a quick browse through a couple of those threads and what I see isn't American bashing.

What I see is criticism aimed at America, which seems to hit the uber-sensitive nerves of some Americans who seem to take it personally. A lot of the stuff seems quite reasonable.

Start a thread about Britain's involvement in Iraq and it won't be long before somebody says that we were a mere lapdog to Bush. You won't get many complaining and taking it personally, if anything you will find Brits agreeing and joining in. Even cracking jokes about it.

It isn't "bashing" per-say, it is criticism and regardless of what some people may think, America is not above criticism.

Alot of the so called america bashing is not bashing at all. as you say it is their oversensitivity to any kind of criticism

most flaming on the forum results from a poster not agreeing with someone elses point of view

thais also cant take criticism ( taught not to challenge what is seen as perceived wisdom) but they tend to just walk away to avoid the conflict

You have missed the point of the thread. It is not about sensitivity or flaming or criticism.

It is about free and open discussion of a topic without distracting arguments from people who blame all the problems of the world on America.

For example, “Korat sure is hot this year.”

Reply, “it is because America is responsible for global warming.”

Or, “Korat sure is cold this year.”

Reply, “it is because America is responsible for global warming.”

I am suggesting move those two replies to a forum devoted to anti American posts so they may be discussed without ruining the topic, about weather in Korat.

Perhaps if you read the OP this would have become clear to you.

Even the mention of the word "sensitive" brings out defensiveness.

Talk about sensitive.

touche

Touche in this instance meaning I didn't read the OP because I can't be bothered by common courtesy or factual information that contradicts my long held bigoted beliefs.

I never said not to bash Americans. I never said I minded people expressing negative views about America.

I never said you can't have an opinion contradictory to mine.

I never said any of that. Get off the anti American sensitivity thing here. It is not what the thread is about.

I said move the anti American post to a forum where they can be discussed without dragging down every topic under the sun to silly nationalist bigoted shouting match.

Have just looked at your profile and some of your latest posts, so I wont reply to your response. Flame me again and whether Bedlam or not it will be reported

caf

I won't reply to your reply because it is a threat. I don't know if a threat if a flame. Maybe it is. So I can't reply to your reply that you can't reply to my reply. Sorry.

I've just had a quick browse through a couple of those threads and what I see isn't American bashing.

What I see is criticism aimed at America, which seems to hit the uber-sensitive nerves of some Americans who seem to take it personally. A lot of the stuff seems quite reasonable.

Start a thread about Britain's involvement in Iraq and it won't be long before somebody says that we were a mere lapdog to Bush. You won't get many complaining and taking it personally, if anything you will find Brits agreeing and joining in. Even cracking jokes about it.

It isn't "bashing" per-say, it is criticism and regardless of what some people may think, America is not above criticism.

Alot of the so called america bashing is not bashing at all. as you say it is their oversensitivity to any kind of criticism

most flaming on the forum results from a poster not agreeing with someone elses point of view

thais also cant take criticism ( taught not to challenge what is seen as perceived wisdom) but they tend to just walk away to avoid the conflict

You have missed the point of the thread. It is not about sensitivity or flaming or criticism.

It is about free and open discussion of a topic without distracting arguments from people who blame all the problems of the world on America.

For example, “Korat sure is hot this year.”

Reply, “it is because America is responsible for global warming.”

Or, “Korat sure is cold this year.”

Reply, “it is because America is responsible for global warming.”

I am suggesting move those two replies to a forum devoted to anti American posts so they may be discussed without ruining the topic, about weather in Korat.

Perhaps if you read the OP this would have become clear to you.

I have not missed the point of the thread and I believe moving posts that are anti american to its own forum would miss the opportunity of trying to stop the anti american posts at their source. I was taking your interesting and relevant topic a step further - that is not the same as ignoring your opening post.

As I said - I may be right I may be wrong - Americans and Thais tend not to accept criticism. Thais deal with it by withdrawing. Americans, sometimes, by flaming. I was making a comparison. Applies to many nationalities of course.

It is more important I feel to deal with the causes of a cold or flu virus than to try to solve it by isolatiion

Thanks for your courteous response and I hope you see my reasoning and the relevance of the analogy

caf

I've just had a quick browse through a couple of those threads and what I see isn't American bashing.

What I see is criticism aimed at America, which seems to hit the uber-sensitive nerves of some Americans who seem to take it personally. A lot of the stuff seems quite reasonable.

Start a thread about Britain's involvement in Iraq and it won't be long before somebody says that we were a mere lapdog to Bush. You won't get many complaining and taking it personally, if anything you will find Brits agreeing and joining in. Even cracking jokes about it.

It isn't "bashing" per-say, it is criticism and regardless of what some people may think, America is not above criticism.

Alot of the so called america bashing is not bashing at all. as you say it is their oversensitivity to any kind of criticism

most flaming on the forum results from a poster not agreeing with someone elses point of view

thais also cant take criticism ( taught not to challenge what is seen as perceived wisdom) but they tend to just walk away to avoid the conflict

You have missed the point of the thread. It is not about sensitivity or flaming or criticism.

It is about free and open discussion of a topic without distracting arguments from people who blame all the problems of the world on America.

For example, “Korat sure is hot this year.”

Reply, “it is because America is responsible for global warming.”

Or, “Korat sure is cold this year.”

Reply, “it is because America is responsible for global warming.”

I am suggesting move those two replies to a forum devoted to anti American posts so they may be discussed without ruining the topic, about weather in Korat.

Perhaps if you read the OP this would have become clear to you.

I have not missed the point of the thread and I believe moving posts that are anti american to its own forum would miss the opportunity of trying to stop the anti american posts at their source. I was taking your interesting and relevant topic a step further - that is not the same as ignoring your opening post.

As I said - I may be right I may be wrong - Americans and Thais tend not to accept criticism. Thais deal with it by withdrawing. Americans, sometimes, by flaming. I was making a comparison. Applies to many nationalities of course.

It is more important I feel to deal with the causes of a cold or flu virus than to try to solve it by isolatiion

Thanks for your courteous response and I hope you see my reasoning and the relevance of the analogy

caf

Whether Americans tend not to accept criticism and are similar in that to Thais. Is not the topic of this thread. No where did I say you were not free to criticize. To compare Americans with Thais in that respect is beyond the pale. It has no basis in reality and is so far from truth so as to be a flame. American politics, education and government are built of being critical. Thai politics, education and government are built on the opposite. Fox news exists on criticism of the President. Your opinion is way off.

To compare Americans with Thais in that respect is beyond the pale. It has no basis in reality and is so far from truth so as to be a flame

You have no concept of what constitutes flaming. I think we've had enough of your self-pity thread. Time to return to what the purpose of this forum is, discussing new ideas, and philosophizing.