Holding On To Passport

[telco]

I am in the UK, We applied for a settlement visa for my Thai wife which was granted, she picked up her passport from the agency and I booked a flight for her on December 1st this month, it was an indirect flight to London with a stopover in Mumbai. she went through the check in desk at Bangkok and boarded the flight, when she got to Mumbai, passport control checked her passport and told her that her visa was not valid until 9th December and refused to allow her to board the London plane and sent her back on another flight to Bangkok, at Bangkok aiport they are holding her passport as surity for Baht 7,800 for the cost of her return flight, what we would like to know is: Why didn't the check in desk at Bangkok spot this and does she have any recourse for compensation for the airlines mistake?

[stevenl]

Why not bear the consequences of your own mistake yourself, in stead of trying to blame somebody else for your own mistake?

[Kwasaki]

I'd like to help more but you do not say whether she had a visa a British passport or a Thai passport.

[eXplosief]

Why didn't the check in desk at Bangkok spot this and does she have any recourse for compensation for the airlines mistake?

Most likely as they would only check if she could go to Mumbai.

[LuckyLew]

WOW

This is something that you or the passport holder should have seen

The dates are clearly marked on the visa

Time to pay for your mistake and book another ticket

[IMA_FARANG]

Okay, I'm confused.

What visa was it that wasn't valid until 9 December?

If it was a U.K. visa then what does Mumbai have to do with it? She should have just been "transit" through Mumbai. I don't see how India could refuse her a flight to the U.K. if she had a valid ticket and did not have to enter India, but was just "transit"

Or was it the airline that refused her the onward flight to the U.K.?

If it was the airline, they should have caught it when she left Thailand. I believe by IATA regulations the AIRLINE is responsible for the return of any passenger they transport if that passenger is not allowed entrance to their country of destination. I would think the airline made an error in allowing her on the plane if her visa was not yet valid.

Also, who has "confiscated" her passport? Is it the airline? I don't know if they have that authority. They can possibly bill her, and demand payment for the return flight; but holding her passport until she pays for that flight....well, I wouldn't think that is legal.

One of the reasons that the airlines are such sticklers about checking visa of travelers is that IATA stipulates (as I understand it) that the AIRLINE transporting someone who is refused entrance due to an invalid visa is responsible for their return ransportation to country of origin.

That's why European and U.S. airlines want to see a return or onward ticket for those who want to travel to Thailand without a visa...because they could be liable if that person is refused entry to Thailand.

And finally, what airline was this?

But ultimately, the passport and visa owner IS reponsible for checking the validity of the passport and the visa...I have to agree with that.

[telco]

In answer to your question it is a Thai passport with a UK settlement visa and the airline was Jet Airways. I would have paid up but it is not the airline who are asking for the Baht 7,800 but airport security and they want cash not credit card.

[CharlieH]

In answer to your question it is a Thai passport with a UK settlement visa and the airline was Jet Airways. I would have paid up but it is not the airline who are asking for the Baht 7,800 but airport security and they want cash not credit card.

If the Visa was not valid until December 9th, that would mean it was post dated ??????

never heard of a Visa being "post dated". I always thought they were valid from date of issue ?

[theoldgit]

never heard of a Visa being "post dated". I always thought they were valid from date of issue ?

The visa authorities would only post date a visa if you asked them to, otherwise it's valid from the date of issue.

[theoldgit]

In answer to your question it is a Thai passport with a UK settlement visa and the airline was Jet Airways. I would have paid up but it is not the airline who are asking for the Baht 7,800 but airport security and they want cash not credit card.

Absolutely nobody is allowed to hold a passport for security for an alleged debt, a passport is government property.

When you say it's airport security, do you mean in Thailand or India? something very wrong here, especially as you say they are demanding cash.

I think the police need to be involved.

[elliss]

pay up , cut your losses,

and cry into your beer .

[telco]

In answer to your question it is a Thai passport with a UK settlement visa and the airline was Jet Airways. I would have paid up but it is not the airline who are asking for the Baht 7,800 but airport security and they want cash not credit card.

Absolutely nobody is allowed to hold a passport for security for an alleged debt, a passport is government property.

When you say it's airport security, do you mean in Thailand or India? something very wrong here, especially as you say they are demanding cash.

I think the police need to be involved.

It is Bangkok airport that is holding her passport and to those who said we should have checked, my wife does not read English very much and as she told me she has the visa on that basis I bought her ticket and at no time did we ask for a post dated visa I know on reflection she should have gone to the internet shop and emailed me a copy, and I still say the onus is up to the airline to check all visa's for validity just as they did in Mombai.

[theoldgit]

It still doesn't add up, you are correct in saying that it the job of the check-in staff to check that the person flying has the correct documentation for the duration of the trip, but that is mainly because they are liable for a fine of £2,000 if they carry somebody who is refused admission, they are also liable for the cost of repatriation and any detention costs.

So it seems that in this case the check-in and gate staff in Bangkok didn't spot the fact the visa had been post dated, and neither did your wife.

The passport would not have been checked by the immigration authorities in Mumbai so, I imagine, it was picked up by the Jet gate staff in Mumbai who decided not to let her board, but return her to Bangkok. Quite how "airport security" became involved I am at a loss to understand, I think that if I were in your position I would be contacting the airline and explain that whilst mistakes have been made, they have been made by all parties and some sort of compromise must be reached.

I am still concerned at the prospect of "airport security" holding your wife's passport to ransom, and you need to ensure that Jet aren't complicit in this.

Quite why other posters seem to take such great delight in your problems beggars belief, give him a break guys.

[phaethon]

It is Bangkok airport that is holding her passport and to those who said we should have checked, my wife does not read English very much and as she told me she has the visa on that basis I bought her ticket and at no time did we ask for a post dated visa I know on reflection she should have gone to the internet shop and emailed me a copy, and I still say the onus is up to the airline to check all visa's for validity just as they did in Mombai.

I think you'll find in the small print that the airline has no such responsibility and in fact specifically says the onus for documentation checking is on the passenger:

http://www.jetairways.com/EN/GB/TermsAndConditions/TicketingThroughPayOnlineServices.aspx

6. Documentation and health requirements: The responsibility to ensure the correctness of all documentation including valid Indian resident permit, passport & visa (if required) rests solely with you. Jet Airways will not be responsible for any damages arising out of incomplete or improper documentation on your part.

That many airlines do check is a courtesy to save them, and you but mainly them, trouble at the other end.

Bangkok missed it (the ideal place to catch it), Mumbai caught it, so a relatively short return flight.

As to the passport two practicalities to consider:

1) You could report it stolen but then you'd have to replace it in time for her next attempt to travel, presumably as soon after the 9th as possible.

2) Guess who'll be waiting for her next time she tries to check in with the new passport..?

Seriously, it was a mistake to try to travel, bite the bullet and get her on her way, worry-free, ASAP.

[theoldgit]

If you were to report the passport lost the visa goes with it, the cost of replacing the visa vignette is the full cost of an application, 37,500 Baht.

phatheon makes some good points, byt I would still advise contacting the airline and try to reach a compromise.

[NanLaew]

There's absolutely no need for 'airport security' to get their hands on someone's passport unless it was set up by the airline. Their stated terms and conditions are clear; the passenger is responsible so forget about trying to fight that. The OP needs to speak with Jet Airways directly, arrange for the payment, cash or otherwise and get the passport back to his wife.

[Xircal]

It is Bangkok airport that is holding her passport and to those who said we should have checked, my wife does not read English very much and as she told me she has the visa on that basis I bought her ticket and at no time did we ask for a post dated visa I know on reflection she should have gone to the internet shop and emailed me a copy, and I still say the onus is up to the airline to check all visa's for validity just as they did in Mombai.

If your wife isn't able to read English very well, I'm surprised she was able to obtain a visa in the first place. Since 29 November, new rules have been put in place to require all applicants except those from the EU, to demonstrate a satisfactory knowledge of English before a visa can be issued.

I don't like the sound of airport security holding her passport though. It's the airline which is out of pocket, not the airport. Sounds like a scam somewhere along the line, Are you sure she actually got on the plane? Ask her to send you a copy of her boarding pass.

[theoldgit]

If your wife isn't able to read English very well, I'm surprised she was able to obtain a visa in the first place. Since 29 November, new rules have been put in place to require all applicants except those from the EU, to demonstrate a satisfactory knowledge of English before a visa can be issued.

If the OP's wife flew on the 1st December she would have applied for her visa well before this requirement of submitting the proof of her understanding of English with the application came into force, though she will have to provide that proof at a later stage. Also the test is to be able to speak and understand a basic level of English, there is no reading English requirement.

[PattayaParent]

There's absolutely no need for 'airport security' to get their hands on someone's passport unless it was set up by the airline. Their stated terms and conditions are clear; the passenger is responsible so forget about trying to fight that. The OP needs to speak with Jet Airways directly, arrange for the payment, cash or otherwise and get the passport back to his wife.

I'd recommend he find out just who this 'airport security' is. A private company? Immigration? Army / Border control? and get the name rank and number of the person who has the passport and find out what authority they have to hold it.

The money, if owed, would be owed to the airline surely?

[Xircal]

If your wife isn't able to read English very well, I'm surprised she was able to obtain a visa in the first place. Since 29 November, new rules have been put in place to require all applicants except those from the EU, to demonstrate a satisfactory knowledge of English before a visa can be issued.

If the OP's wife flew on the 1st December she would have applied for her visa well before this requirement of submitting the proof of her understanding of English with the application came into force, though she will have to provide that proof at a later stage. Also the test is to be able to speak and understand a basic level of English, there is no reading English requirement.

My understanding of the new requiremnts is to be able to demonstrate a knowledge of English at A1 Level. That being the case, then a written test forms part of the curriculum.

[theoldgit]

My understanding of the new requiremnts is to be able to demonstrate a knowledge of English at A1 Level. That being the case, then a written test forms part of the curriculum.

Not quite, the new requirements require a minimum standard of speaking and listening at A1

The minimum standard that applicants will need to meet is in speaking and listening at level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference. The list of approved tests and providers includes some tests above A1 level - this is because we will also accept tests in speaking and listening, or in speaking and listening with additional skills such as reading or writing, that are taken at a higher level with an approved test provider. We have made this decision to give people as wide a choice as possible, and to provide for people who:

• have already taken a test at a higher level with one of the approved test providers; or
• want to take a test at a higher level for work or study reasons.

I assume the provider to which you provided the link can also test to the higher standard than the minimum required by the UKBA.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsarticles/2010/275292/46-english-test-partners

[telco]

Thanks Guys and Gals for all your help and support and <deleted> you those who thought it was funny, my wife is with me now in England and we shall be enjoying the Christmas holiday together.

Incidently, it was Jet Airways who was holding on to her passport and she had to pay 7,500 Baht for them to release it, this was the first time I had chance to look at her visa and unless you used a magnifing glass it was quite easy to miss it, experienced passport checkers should have spotted it right away. After many frustrating phone calls to Jet Airways and E Bookers and getting nowhere I gave it up as a hopeless case, all in all, I have never been so ripped off getting this visa, but my wife is worth every penny, bless her. once again, thanks for all your support and best wishes for Chrismas and the New Year.

[theoldgit]

Hope you both have a good Christmas and your wife enjoys the snow.

I wonder why the ECO post dated the visa?