Aussie 'Attacked' By Thai Elephant Guide

[jackr]

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

Spoken like a true Thai - this is how we do it, keep your mouth shut . If you want tourists to continue coming to your country, I suggest your brethren begin respecting them or perhaps they'll head east to the more peace-loving, serene shores of Vietnam.

I see all the time some westerners that comes to Thailand that wish to force their own ideas on the Thai people.Get a life.

What are you ranting about. These guys were clearly on holiday in a touristy area spending money in Thailand and not out to change things... the mahout brought the elephant out of the jungle right in the tourist's face. This is not a Thai tradition handed down over the centuries; they only bring them into the city because of the tourist. Nothing wrong with telling the mahout to f.off and that what he's doing is wrong.

[jackr]

Sounds like a bullshit story to me. My advice?

Support the elephants if you see them.

20 baht in bananas isn't too much to ask for.

Great advice; support the elephants by giving the mahouts money so they come back for more.

[PlanetX]

Sounds like a bullshit story to me. My advice?

Support the elephants if you see them.

20 baht in bananas isn't too much to ask for.

Not every thread has to do with "cheap charlies" - try the next one down

[PlanetX]

This is Thailand and not some western country.It has some dogooders(real word or not)that want to save Thailand from what they see as bad.I see all the time some westerners that comes to Thailand that wish to force their own ideas on the Thai people.Get a life.This is not your country go home and fix your own country that is probably a lot more "broken" then Thailand will ever be.Looking at the videos and the news clips that I have been able to find on this type of incident it seems to be the making of the westerner that caused the problem to begin with.I guess you could say, som nam nay.

The obligatory "if you dont like it, get out" post

The issue of universal animals rights/ national sovereignty is not only in Thailand

[jayjay0]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

Tourists have just as much right to enter Thailand as you do. They also have just as much right to an opinion about any personnel experiences they come across here as you do. They also have the right to express their pleasure or displeasure [lawfully] about Thailand as you do.

Living here for "10+years" equals what? . Shame on you.

They also have the right to be stupid

10 years equals experience listen to him you might learn some thing. I only have 5 years experience and damned if I am going to start a argument with a Thai controlling a elephant.

That being said.

I think the elephants should not be put to work in this manner. As has been said it is not good for there feet. Not sure how well they can be cared for in the city either. Can't be good.

that's a opinion

Edited December 15, 2010 by jayjay0

[jayjay0]

This is one the sickest forms of blatant animal cruelty

Hopefully tourists are starting to understand this and continue to refuse to support and also speak out against this practice

The only way they "tame" these elephants is by torturing them horrifically when they are babies

The fact that this "practice" is rewared by being allowed to parade them down the street speaks VOLUMES

Is it really worth a few baht in pay-off money to allow elephants to be brutally tortured like this?

I guess as long as there are beautiful statues of elephants in front of important buildings then its all right

I don't think they torture them to tame them. I know they do when they teach them to do tricks but that is different than eating.

It is easy to say they should not be made to do what they do. And I agree.

My problem is what happens to them if every one refuses to feed them.

Please do not respond if you do not have a answer.

If every one refuses to feed them how many days before they starve to death. Or is there a immediate solution. Immediate as in today.

Not one of those people should do solutions ( agreed they should but this is reality and they aren't). No time for that. Remember they are starving to death.

Edited December 15, 2010 by jayjay0

[uptheos]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

Tourists have just as much right to enter Thailand as you do. They also have just as much right to an opinion about any personnel experiences they come across here as you do. They also have the right to express their pleasure or displeasure [lawfully] about Thailand as you do.

Living here for "10+years" equals what? . Shame on you.

They also have the right to be stupid

10 years equals experience listen to him you might learn some thing. I only have 5 years experience and damned if I am going to start a argument with a Thai controlling a elephant.

That being said.

I think the elephants should not be put to work in this manner. As has been said it is not good for there feet. Not sure how well they can be cared for in the city either. Can't be good.

that's a opinion

5, 10, 15 years it matters not.......start an argument with a Thai and accept the consequences, for there will be one (some).

To start an argument with a Thai controlling Nellie with an iron hook thing, is plain stupid!

[LJW]

Sounds like a bullshit story to me. My advice?

Support the elephants if you see them.

20 baht in bananas isn't too much to ask for.

Great advice; support the elephants by giving the mahouts money so they come back for more.

I don't think about the mahouts, I am only concerned with what I can do to help the elephants...

[PlanetX]

This is one the sickest forms of blatant animal cruelty

Hopefully tourists are starting to understand this and continue to refuse to support and also speak out against this practice

The only way they "tame" these elephants is by torturing them horrifically when they are babies

The fact that this "practice" is rewared by being allowed to parade them down the street speaks VOLUMES

Is it really worth a few baht in pay-off money to allow elephants to be brutally tortured like this?

I guess as long as there are beautiful statues of elephants in front of important buildings then its all right

I don't think they torture them to tame them. I know they do when they teach them to do tricks but that is different than eating.

It is easy to say they should not be made to do what they do. And I agree.

My problem is what happens to them if every one refuses to feed them.

Please do not respond if you do not have a answer.

If every one refuses to feed them how many days before they starve to death. Or is there a immediate solution. Immediate as in today.

Not one of those people should do solutions ( agreed they should but this is reality and they aren't). No time for that. Remember they are starving to death.

they do torture them to tame them - FACT - do 3 minutes of research

The elephants you see in the street arent coming from elephant camps open to the public

If you dont pay the "handlers" money - capturing wild elephants no longer becomes profitable and they find something else

They are only starving to death because it is profitable to capture them and parade them in the streets

By "providing them food" you are sponsoring their capture and captivity

[PlanetX]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

Tourists have just as much right to enter Thailand as you do. They also have just as much right to an opinion about any personnel experiences they come across here as you do. They also have the right to express their pleasure or displeasure [lawfully] about Thailand as you do.

Living here for "10+years" equals what? . Shame on you.

They also have the right to be stupid

10 years equals experience listen to him you might learn some thing. I only have 5 years experience and damned if I am going to start a argument with a Thai controlling a elephant.

That being said.

I think the elephants should not be put to work in this manner. As has been said it is not good for there feet. Not sure how well they can be cared for in the city either. Can't be good.

that's a opinion

5, 10, 15 years it matters not.......start an argument with a Thai and accept the consequences, for there will be one (some).

To start an argument with a Thai controlling Nellie with an iron hook thing, is plain stupid!

some people actually believe in standing up against abuse and animal cruelty

Edited December 15, 2010 by PlanetX

[uptheos]

5, 10, 15 years it matters not.......start an argument with a Thai and accept the consequences, for there will be one (some).

To start an argument with a Thai controlling Nellie with an iron hook thing, is plain stupid!

some people actually believe in standing up against abuse and animal cruelty

Some people also have a death wish!

There are many ways to get involved against abuse and cruelty.....getting involved with a Thai guy who is probably stoned / drunk and carrying an iron pick, is downright stupid........unless of course you fancy one of these things embedded in your skull.

[PlanetX]

5, 10, 15 years it matters not.......start an argument with a Thai and accept the consequences, for there will be one (some).

To start an argument with a Thai controlling Nellie with an iron hook thing, is plain stupid!

some people actually believe in standing up against abuse and animal cruelty

Some people also have a death wish!

There are many ways to get involved against abuse and cruelty.....getting involved with a Thai guy who is probably stoned / drunk and carrying an iron pick, is downright stupid........unless of course you fancy one of these things embedded in your skull.

I think you should reserve judgement on people that are willing to place themselves in harms way to make a statement about protecting an innocent animal

If every person on the street did that, the stoned/ drunk Thai guy would not be able to continue what he is doing

Edited December 15, 2010 by PlanetX

[uptheos]

5, 10, 15 years it matters not.......start an argument with a Thai and accept the consequences, for there will be one (some).

To start an argument with a Thai controlling Nellie with an iron hook thing, is plain stupid!

some people actually believe in standing up against abuse and animal cruelty

Some people also have a death wish!

There are many ways to get involved against abuse and cruelty.....getting involved with a Thai guy who is probably stoned / drunk and carrying an iron pick, is downright stupid........unless of course you fancy one of these things embedded in your skull.

I think you should reserve judgement on people that are willing to place themselves in harms way to make a statement about protecting an innocent animal

If every person on the street did that, the stoned/ drunk Thai guy would not be able to continue what he is doing

Please do so, and on that brave note, I'll let you return to Planet X.

[PlanetX]

5, 10, 15 years it matters not.......start an argument with a Thai and accept the consequences, for there will be one (some).

To start an argument with a Thai controlling Nellie with an iron hook thing, is plain stupid!

some people actually believe in standing up against abuse and animal cruelty

Some people also have a death wish!

There are many ways to get involved against abuse and cruelty.....getting involved with a Thai guy who is probably stoned / drunk and carrying an iron pick, is downright stupid........unless of course you fancy one of these things embedded in your skull.

I think you should reserve judgement on people that are willing to place themselves in harms way to make a statement about protecting an innocent animal

If every person on the street did that, the stoned/ drunk Thai guy would not be able to continue what he is doing

Please do so, and on that brave note, I'll let you return to Planet X.

hahahaha - are you one of my kindergarten students?

[uptheos]

5, 10, 15 years it matters not.......start an argument with a Thai and accept the consequences, for there will be one (some).

To start an argument with a Thai controlling Nellie with an iron hook thing, is plain stupid!

some people actually believe in standing up against abuse and animal cruelty

Some people also have a death wish!

There are many ways to get involved against abuse and cruelty.....getting involved with a Thai guy who is probably stoned / drunk and carrying an iron pick, is downright stupid........unless of course you fancy one of these things embedded in your skull.

I think you should reserve judgement on people that are willing to place themselves in harms way to make a statement about protecting an innocent animal

If every person on the street did that, the stoned/ drunk Thai guy would not be able to continue what he is doing

Please do so, and on that brave note, I'll let you return to Planet X.

hahahaha - are you one of my kindergarten students?

Aaah, so you're a kindergarten teacher.........that explains everything.

[TheWalkingMan]

Sounds like the underlying theme posted by some people is that Thailand is a violent country and words spoken in criticism can be met with physical harm. Does that just about sum up what should be on the brochures?

TheWalkingMan

[Berkshire]

Tourists have just as much right to enter Thailand as you do. They also have just as much right to an opinion about any personnel experiences they come across here as you do. They also have the right to express their pleasure or displeasure [lawfully] about Thailand as you do.

So tourists have as much "right to an opinion...," is that right? Even if they don't have all the facts. So they can come to Thailand and criticize anyone as they see fit, based on their own "personal experiences." So if a tourist, do-gooder comes to Thailand and sees you with a Thai woman and yells at you "Pervert! Why are you exploiting these Thai women? Don't you have any decency? Why are you so desperate that you have to buy a hooker?" They may not know all the facts, like the fact that this woman may be your wife, or colleague, or daughter, whatever, but according to you, they're certainly entitled to their opinion. What a bunch of crappola.

Those like you and others who keep repeating the mantra "animal cruelty," how do you know this for a fact? Maybe these guys love their animals, a heck of a lot more than you do. Maybe it's the only way to get these animals fed. Would you like to adopt an elephant to look after one yourself? Speaking of animal cruelty, how about all these stray dogs running around. Are you going to cry a tear for them? When you go to a circus or the zoo, do you accuse the workers there of animal cruelty? Shouldn't those tigers working with Ziegfried and Roy be out in the wild doing what tigers do? If you're going to cry animal cruelty, how about being a little more consistent about it.

[Berkshire]

I don't think they torture them to tame them. I know they do when they teach them to do tricks but that is different than eating.

It is easy to say they should not be made to do what they do. And I agree.

My problem is what happens to them if every one refuses to feed them.

Please do not respond if you do not have a answer.

If every one refuses to feed them how many days before they starve to death. Or is there a immediate solution. Immediate as in today.

Not one of those people should do solutions ( agreed they should but this is reality and they aren't). No time for that. Remember they are starving to death.

That's a good point. Perhaps this was the only way to get these animals fed. All the so-called animal lovers on this thread are only concerned about "appearances," but if this practice were to stop tomorrow and these same animal lovers were called on to help these animals, I doubt any would lift a finger.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Hey Berkshire enough with the apologists rant...

You don't see us Americans defending White Supremacists and the KKK just because it's from our country. Get a grip... Hitting a guy over the head with a hammer or stick whatever is a serious act of violence and perhaps attempted manslaughter.

If the Mahout worked the guy over with a stick because of something the tourist said then yeah he is probably cruel to animals also..

If he is super nice and caring to his animals but unloads an assault and battery then that would be one heck of an unlikely paradox.

[Berkshire]

Hey Berkshire enough with the apologists rant...

You don't see us Americans defending White Supremacists and the KKK just because it's from our country. Get a grip... Hitting a guy over the head with a hammer or stick whatever is a serious act of violence and perhaps attempted manslaughter.

If the Mahout worked the guy over with a stick because of something the tourist said then yeah he is probably cruel to animals also..

If he is super nice and caring to his animals but unloads an assault and battery then that would be one heck of an unlikely paradox.

Spare me the usual basher rant of "apologists," and while you're at, spare us all your armchair psycho-analysis. I'm not defending the guy for a violent act. But if certain idiot tourists can't keep their uninformed opinions to themselves, then the Thai phrase "som num na" applies.

[jayjay0]

This is one the sickest forms of blatant animal cruelty

Hopefully tourists are starting to understand this and continue to refuse to support and also speak out against this practice

The only way they "tame" these elephants is by torturing them horrifically when they are babies

The fact that this "practice" is rewared by being allowed to parade them down the street speaks VOLUMES

Is it really worth a few baht in pay-off money to allow elephants to be brutally tortured like this?

I guess as long as there are beautiful statues of elephants in front of important buildings then its all right

I don't think they torture them to tame them. I know they do when they teach them to do tricks but that is different than eating.

It is easy to say they should not be made to do what they do. And I agree.

My problem is what happens to them if every one refuses to feed them.

Please do not respond if you do not have a answer.

If every one refuses to feed them how many days before they starve to death. Or is there a immediate solution. Immediate as in today.

Not one of those people should do solutions ( agreed they should but this is reality and they aren't). No time for that. Remember they are starving to death.

they do torture them to tame them - FACT - do 3 minutes of research

The elephants you see in the street arent coming from elephant camps open to the public

If you dont pay the "handlers" money - capturing wild elephants no longer becomes profitable and they find something else

They are only starving to death because it is profitable to capture them and parade them in the streets

By "providing them food" you are sponsoring their capture and captivity

Three minutes of research will give me any answer I want same goes for you.

You responded when I asked you not to if you didn't have a answer.

Where did you get the idea they came from elephant camps? I specifically said in the city.

Grow up. They are on the street today NOW what do you do with them if you don't feed them today, tomorrow the day after get the idea.

The answer is they will die. That is not acceptable t me.

Is it acceptable to you?

[coma]

Tourists have just as much right to enter Thailand as you do. They also have just as much right to an opinion about any personnel experiences they come across here as you do. They also have the right to express their pleasure or displeasure [lawfully] about Thailand as you do.

So tourists have as much "right to an opinion...," is that right? Even if they don't have all the facts. So they can come to Thailand and criticize anyone as they see fit, based on their own "personal experiences." So if a tourist, do-gooder comes to Thailand and sees you with a Thai woman and yells at you "Pervert! Why are you exploiting these Thai women? Don't you have any decency? Why are you so desperate that you have to buy a hooker?" They may not know all the facts, like the fact that this woman may be your wife, or colleague, or daughter, whatever, but according to you, they're certainly entitled to their opinion. What a bunch of crappola.

Those like you and others who keep repeating the mantra "animal cruelty," how do you know this for a fact? Maybe these guys love their animals, a heck of a lot more than you do. Maybe it's the only way to get these animals fed. Would you like to adopt an elephant to look after one yourself? Speaking of animal cruelty, how about all these stray dogs running around. Are you going to cry a tear for them? When you go to a circus or the zoo, do you accuse the workers there of animal cruelty? Shouldn't those tigers working with Ziegfried and Roy be out in the wild doing what tigers do? If you're going to cry animal cruelty, how about being a little more consistent about it.

Read my post before commenting. Did the words 'Animal cruelty' come up in my post? Sorry. But you are an epic failure.

[jayjay0]

Hey Berkshire enough with the apologists rant...

You don't see us Americans defending White Supremacists and the KKK just because it's from our country. Get a grip... Hitting a guy over the head with a hammer or stick whatever is a serious act of violence and perhaps attempted manslaughter.

If the Mahout worked the guy over with a stick because of something the tourist said then yeah he is probably cruel to animals also..

If he is super nice and caring to his animals but unloads an assault and battery then that would be one heck of an unlikely paradox.

Spare me the usual basher rant of "apologists," and while you're at, spare us all your armchair psycho-analysis. I'm not defending the guy for a violent act. But if certain idiot tourists can't keep their uninformed opinions to themselves, then the Thai phrase "som num na" applies.

Well You sure don't see Americans or other white nationalities defending White supremacy. That is a fact.

Another fact is you see them practicing it here in Thailand.

Berkshire does it not strike you as funny that on two pages of posts there has only been three of us showing concern for the life's of the elephants on the street today. The others want to starve them to death so the handlers can not make a living.

I in no way believe that elephants should be treated the way they are. But the fact is they are and unless people are willing to do some thing for them thy will continue to be treated that way.

One answer is let them die and start over with a new crop. Planet x assures us that if we let them die it will never happen again. Strange place planet x.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Hey Berkshire enough with the apologists rant...

You don't see us Americans defending White Supremacists and the KKK just because it's from our country. Get a grip... Hitting a guy over the head with a hammer or stick whatever is a serious act of violence and perhaps attempted manslaughter.

If the Mahout worked the guy over with a stick because of something the tourist said then yeah he is probably cruel to animals also..

If he is super nice and caring to his animals but unloads an assault and battery then that would be one heck of an unlikely paradox.

Spare me the usual basher rant of "apologists," and while you're at, spare us all your armchair psycho-analysis. I'm not defending the guy for a violent act. But if certain idiot tourists can't keep their uninformed opinions to themselves, then the Thai phrase "som num na" applies.

Bershire.... If someone goes at another person with one of those hammer claws then they are basically trying to kill them. Being skilled in martial arts a lot of people know how ridiculously violent an attack like that is...

Whatever the tourist said to him did not justify an attack like that.... Maybe if the tourist was attacking him with a knife..

The guy was probably on drugs or really not right.... Hopefully he is incarcerated so he doesn't hurt anyone else tourist or Thai.

Why not put nationalism or whatever cultural pride aside and call the guy what he is.... A dangerous and violent offender.

If a person or culture can't withstand some occasional criticism then one can only feel bad for being trapped in such a shallow and sensitive ego.

[ctrunfree]

Hang on, I think I've lost the thread here...so the tourist, who was wearing a Klan robe and hood, said something uncomplimentary to the mahout about his sister, who is going out with an old farang...

[uptoyoumyfriend]

one of those issues that are being voted on by feet-meaning you like it you buy food and support them you do not condone you give your money elsewhere.just like children and others that try to make a living holding out their hand you have to decide on an individual bases if

you are helping or not by giving or not

better not be confrontational though especially in a foreign country and culture

[surayu]

Sounds like a bullshit story to me. My advice?

Support the elephants if you see them.

20 baht in bananas isn't too much to ask for.

From another thread: "Violators will be subject to a 6-month jail term or a 10,000-THB fine. The law, which has been put in effect since 22 June, also applies to people who buy food for the elephants."

If you let me know in which prison cell they will put you after you buy the 20 baht of bananas i will make sure to bring you some everytimes i come around, as the law doesn't applies to people feeding prisoners i guess

[Beetlejuice]

Almost had the same problem last Friday evening near the Imperial Mae Ping Hotel, we refused to buy bananas/ sugar cane and complained at the mistreatment of the young Elephant, and the thuggy looking guy got really pissed off. We actually commented that he looked like he wanted to hit somebody, presumably later he did!

Its well known that walking long distances on tarmac roads seriously damages a poor Elephants pads under the feet.

Its also well known that despite saying they care, the Police do NOTHING to these people. It goes on daily in Chiang Mai, and I ve seen Police chatting in a friendly manner to these Thug Mahouts and doing nothing, other than presumably picking up their share of the profits.

What can we do? Any ideas welcomed.

I have been approached many times by these guys with the young elephant either asking for money or food.

I just smile, say no thank you and the guy walks away, never had any problems or been shown aggression.

And that`s the simple answer to the problem. If tourists do not give then the mahouts or whatever they are are called will go out of business.

[Ulysses G.]

I just smile, say no thank you and the guy walks away, never had any problems or been shown aggression.

Me as well. I am pretty sure that it is the giving them one's opinion part that cause the problems.

[moetownblues]

This is another thread but I also read somewhere that it was going to be extended across Thailand.

Tourists warned not to feed Bangkok's street elephants

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Tourists in Bangkok are being warned not to buy food for street elephants or risk a 10,000 baht (310 dollars) fine in the latest clampdown on begging by owners of the animals.