Married Thai Lady With Foreigner Surname

[h5kaf]

I have been married now for about 10 years and when we married my Thai wife changed her name to mine. This she did at the local Amphur and eventually her ID card was issued in her married name. Over the years she has found that having her ID in a foreigner's name has been a disadvantage, as banks will not lend etc. Now she wants to sell some land she owns in her unmarried name, and she says that she either has to be divorced or I have to sign a lot of papers.

I am confused, because I know that foreigners cannot own land and therefore why I should have to sign documents is very confusing. Also as she is Thai and can show a marriage certificate and a photocopy of her old ID card I fail to see why she cannot therefore sign off her Chanote title deed. I also do not understand why divorce is a solution, just to get her name changed on her ID card.

Does anyone know if it is possible for a married Thai lady to change her name back to her Thai name before marriage, yet still remain married. If this is possible please explain the steps involved.

many thanks

[sbk]

Yes she can change her name legally, many people do it. As for the land issue, i think you may have your questions answered better in the land/real estate forum.

[h5kaf]

Yes she can change her name legally, many people do it. As for the land issue, i think you may have your questions answered better in the land/real estate forum.

Thank you sbk. Would you be able to tell me the procedure?

[ESB7]

Not much help but I do remember an Aussie guy that was married and his wife took his surname, he advised me then never to do that(although my wife did when we were married)...cant remember the exact reason as so long ago but it was definatly to do with land ownership. Name changes are relativley easy, although not sure of the exact process but wouldnt think a divorce is neccasary

[trogers]

...therefore why I should have to sign documents is very confusing

It is Thai law. A married woman buying real properties have to obtain written permission from her husband. As a result of this law former PM Thaksin was found guilty when his wife tried to buy a large piece of land in Rachadapisek.

This law applies to both foreigners and locals.

[mkawish]

For your own peace of mind,

walks into your own UmPher district,

asks someone there to explain what is needed.

There are many UmPher districts that hire English speaking staff.

For a Thai, name changes is a simple procedure.

My lady just showed up at the ID dept with her ID card and filled out a form for name change request.

And she was told her new requested name must be one and only, and if there should be an existing name already, she needed to secure originators' permission and her name must not imply any lineage to the royalty.

That was just in Sept, 2009.

Perhaps, you really ought to find out, if there are any other reasons behind her request, which I hope not.

Have a happy holidays regardless.

[JackSterling]

I got married twice.. and never got married again .. just live with them is the really the best way.. If you have money why throw it away on someone or something you will normally lose on? I just cannot see the logic behind any Thai/farang marriage unless it is just for business deals. 99% of all the women here will burn all westerners.. it has been proven the course of their actions for over 100 years. We all love the "fruits" of living here as do most.. but to marry and then slowly give it all away.. You guys who do this are nuts.. So many women are willing to give us what we want and what we need... why spoil it with a marriage?? I never go look for a bar girl.. just good clean women who want a falong as a boyfriend..

When they speak of marriage and kids.. then that is a different story if you are young and want that.. but older guys really only need a good housekeeper/maid to keep their homes clean for 200 to 500 a day and at occasional squeeze for the evenings." Rent a wife" for a day of two and get it out of your system.. then come and get a new puppy from me and I bet you will be much happier with the dog and he will cost far less than that wife.. Again this is only an opinion and not the way for all.. but is sure works for me..

[dave111223]

I got married twice.. and never got married again .. just live with them is the really the best way.. If you have money why throw it away on someone or something you will normally lose on? I just cannot see the logic behind any Thai/farang marriage unless it is just for business deals. 99% of all the women here will burn all westerners.. it has been proven the course of their actions for over 100 years. We all love the "fruits" of living here as do most.. but to marry and then slowly give it all away.. You guys who do this are nuts.. So many women are willing to give us what we want and what we need... why spoil it with a marriage?? I never go look for a bar girl.. just good clean women who want a falong as a boyfriend..

When they speak of marriage and kids.. then that is a different story if you are young and want that.. but older guys really only need a good housekeeper/maid to keep their homes clean for 200 to 500 a day and at occasional squeeze for the evenings." Rent a wife" for a day of two and get it out of your system.. then come and get a new puppy from me and I bet you will be much happier with the dog and he will cost far less than that wife.. Again this is only an opinion and not the way for all.. but is sure works for me..

Wow, what an inappropriate response to a real estate question..

To the OP, changing name at your local Amphur is easy and i think she can even change "Mrs" to "Miss" if she wants (while still being married). You'd better go along with her though; if you don't they will probably say you are needed to sign papers (when you do go they will probably not require you to sign any paper as they just love to waste peoples time)

Edited December 21, 2010 by dave111223

[trogers]

I got married twice.. and never got married again .. just live with them is the really the best way.. If you have money why throw it away on someone or something you will normally lose on? I just cannot see the logic behind any Thai/farang marriage unless it is just for business deals. 99% of all the women here will burn all westerners.. it has been proven the course of their actions for over 100 years. We all love the "fruits" of living here as do most.. but to marry and then slowly give it all away.. You guys who do this are nuts.. So many women are willing to give us what we want and what we need... why spoil it with a marriage?? I never go look for a bar girl.. just good clean women who want a falong as a boyfriend..

When they speak of marriage and kids.. then that is a different story if you are young and want that.. but older guys really only need a good housekeeper/maid to keep their homes clean for 200 to 500 a day and at occasional squeeze for the evenings." Rent a wife" for a day of two and get it out of your system.. then come and get a new puppy from me and I bet you will be much happier with the dog and he will cost far less than that wife.. Again this is only an opinion and not the way for all.. but is sure works for me..

I can easily conclude your lifestyle and the kind of dames you surround yourself with...

[gamini]

I got married twice.. and never got married again .. just live with them is the really the best way.. If you have money why throw it away on someone or something you will normally lose on? I just cannot see the logic behind any Thai/farang marriage unless it is just for business deals. 99% of all the women here will burn all westerners.. it has been proven the course of their actions for over 100 years. We all love the "fruits" of living here as do most.. but to marry and then slowly give it all away.. You guys who do this are nuts.. So many women are willing to give us what we want and what we need... why spoil it with a marriage?? I never go look for a bar girl.. just good clean women who want a falong as a boyfriend..

When they speak of marriage and kids.. then that is a different story if you are young and want that.. but older guys really only need a good housekeeper/maid to keep their homes clean for 200 to 500 a day and at occasional squeeze for the evenings." Rent a wife" for a day of two and get it out of your system.. then come and get a new puppy from me and I bet you will be much happier with the dog and he will cost far less than that wife.. Again this is only an opinion and not the way for all.. but is sure works for me..

You must be living in Pattaya or tourist areas and talking about Bar girl/farang or old men/village girl

marriage. Many of us ex-pats marry decent Thai women and have excellent marriages. Many of my friends married wealthy Thai women. I guess a lot of us live in a different world to you.

[SantiSuk]

I guess if you have been burned it helps to think that everyone else is in the same boat. Only rationale I can think of for this oft-cited stereotypical opinion about Thai women.

Useful to get these reminders though - keeps you focused on enjoying what you have while you have it and toughens you up to hopefully not be quite so bitter if it all goes belly-up.

[steelepulse]

My wife has my last name and she's never had a problem getting loans from a bank for land or whatever. As a spouse as mentioned above, the husband does have to sign papers when selling or buying.

[h5kaf]

Thank you all for the mostly helpful replies. I am now sorted. Once again many thanks.

[trogers]

And a final point to another person who posted the comment that a Thai woman can't buy or sell land without her husband's permission...and that was what caused former PM Thaksin legal problems. I may be wrong, but what caused him and his wife problems was that he illegaly bought and sold land and property using his wife's name...in an attempt to avoid paying tax in his name on that land and property...that caused Thaksin and his wife's legal problems. It had nothing to do with her need have his permision to buy the property.

Wrong. His wife is the party who bid for the land owned by FIDIC (a govt enterprise). Under Thai law, property acquired by a spouse is considered joint property.

He was found guilty of conflict of interest, as PM who had control over govt bodies, directly or indirectly, and one major piece of evidence used in the trial is his written permission for his wife to make the acqusition which was submitted to the Land Dept.

[frenchfarangjomtien]

I always think that it is stupid to change a Thai name when it is about living in Thailand, except to show off... Really, who needs to know that a Thai woman has a farang husband... except to make problems or tell higher prices...

[ESB7]

I got married twice.. and never got married again .. just live with them is the really the best way.. If you have money why throw it away on someone or something you will normally lose on? I just cannot see the logic behind any Thai/farang marriage unless it is just for business deals. 99% of all the women here will burn all westerners.. it has been proven the course of their actions for over 100 years. We all love the "fruits" of living here as do most.. but to marry and then slowly give it all away.. You guys who do this are nuts.. So many women are willing to give us what we want and what we need... why spoil it with a marriage?? I never go look for a bar girl.. just good clean women who want a falong as a boyfriend..

When they speak of marriage and kids.. then that is a different story if you are young and want that.. but older guys really only need a good housekeeper/maid to keep their homes clean for 200 to 500 a day and at occasional squeeze for the evenings." Rent a wife" for a day of two and get it out of your system.. then come and get a new puppy from me and I bet you will be much happier with the dog and he will cost far less than that wife.. Again this is only an opinion and not the way for all.. but is sure works for me..

You must be living in Pattaya or tourist areas and talking about Bar girl/farang or old men/village girl

marriage. Many of us ex-pats marry decent Thai women and have excellent marriages. Many of my friends married wealthy Thai women. I guess a lot of us live in a different world to you.

What a sad man Jack is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ESB7]

Firstly, many Thai women get married and retain their maiden name. As far as I know there is no legal requirement for a Thai woman to change her surname to her husband's name at marriage. It may be done however, but is simply their choice. It's much more common now than years ago...but as far as I know its not a legal requirement. My Thai girlfriend never changed her name to that of her previous farang husband when married...and nobody ever forced her to.

There used to be a law that prohibited Thai women married to foriegners from buying or selling land. I beleve that law has been abolished for at least 20 years now.

I would think that if her I.D. card shows her as a Thai citizen she would have the same rights as every other Thai citizen. Perhaps some people reading her name are simply assuming she is a farang due to her name. If she has a legal Thai I.D. card, that says she was born in Thailand, she is Thai according to the law.

If your wife bought the land with her money, in her name, perhaps what she is refering to is your signature is required on paperwork saying that the money for the land is hers and not from you as a foriegner. A statement that the money is hers, and not yours may be required before she can sell the land. Remember, foriegners can not own land...so the government may want verification of the fact that the land is hers, purchased with her own money...and that she is not acting as the surogate for a forienger to purchase land.

Having said all of that, I have to add I'm not a Thai law expert so I could be wrong. I know too, that there still are many Thais who think that a Thai woman married to a foriegner still can't buy or sell land...but that law has been abolished for at least 20 years now.

And a final point to another person who posted the comment that a Thai woman can't buy or sell land without her husband's permission...and that was what caused former PM Thaksin legal problems. I may be wrong, but what caused him and his wife problems was that he illegaly bought and sold land and property using his wife's name...in an attempt to avoid paying tax in his name on that land and property...that caused Thaksin and his wife's legal problems. It had nothing to do with her need have his permision to buy the property.

Just about sums it up and very well written in laymans terms

[old wanderer]

I have been married for 15 years, (VERY HAPPILY). My wife changed to my last name, after some 7 years of marriage, because I almost went to jail one night going into a hotel, and they wanted to treat my wife like I had just rented her for the evening. Naturally I got into a huge fight with several of the hotel employees.

Now to the subject, I have signed to form at least 20 times when we have purchased property at the land office. Also the manger at the land office realized she had purchased land as a single woman when she was in fact married to me, and could have lost all that land. He is really a nice person, and took care to go back and update the old Chanotes.

It is a simple form you sign. Takes about 30 seconds, and says this is not your money. Because we have no children, we also file a USEFRET, just to keep the relatives away, should something ever happen to her and not me. I am also on a will, which will give me ownership for up to 6 months after her death to transfer the property to a Thai.

[XXpate48USA]

I got married twice.. and never got married again .. just live with them is the really the best way.. If you have money why throw it away on someone or something you will normally lose on? I just cannot see the logic behind any Thai/farang marriage unless it is just for business deals. 99% of all the women here will burn all westerners.. it has been proven the course of their actions for over 100 years. We all love the "fruits" of living here as do most.. but to marry and then slowly give it all away.. You guys who do this are nuts.. So many women are willing to give us what we want and what we need... why spoil it with a marriage?? I never go look for a bar girl.. just good clean women who want a falong as a boyfriend..

When they speak of marriage and kids.. then that is a different story if you are young and want that.. but older guys really only need a good housekeeper/maid to keep their homes clean for 200 to 500 a day and at occasional squeeze for the evenings." Rent a wife" for a day of two and get it out of your system.. then come and get a new puppy from me and I bet you will be much happier with the dog and he will cost far less than that wife.. Again this is only an opinion and not the way for all.. but is sure works for me..

Wow, what an inappropriate response to a real estate question..

To the OP, changing name at your local Amphur is easy and i think she can even change "Mrs" to "Miss" if she wants (while still being married). You'd better go along with her though; if you don't they will probably say you are needed to sign papers (when you do go they will probably not require you to sign any paper as they just love to waste peoples time)

Ain't it the truth about loving to waste your time. and duplicate copys of the duplicate copys that aren't even needed in the end. Then the "rubber stamps" boy they love thier stamps. I think that the Thai government would fall apart if it weren't for rubber stamps. This makes them very important if they can stamp your paper. It's amazing at the redundancy of some of the paper work called for, that isn't even used after you scrambling and working hard to get. A complete waste of efficiency and ineptness. But gotta do it because if you don't. They surely will make you turn around and go get what is not needed. Then when you bring it in they won't need it...ugh....Have patience my friends....Mai Pen Rai "Amazing Thailand" maybe this why they have that saying ...dunno.......just be cool, and do it, is my suggestion. Be prepared as we used to say in the boy scouts.....be vewy vewy prepawed!

[XXpate48USA]

I got married twice.. and never got married again .. just live with them is the really the best way.. If you have money why throw it away on someone or something you will normally lose on? I just cannot see the logic behind any Thai/farang marriage unless it is just for business deals. 99% of all the women here will burn all westerners.. it has been proven the course of their actions for over 100 years. We all love the "fruits" of living here as do most.. but to marry and then slowly give it all away.. You guys who do this are nuts.. So many women are willing to give us what we want and what we need... why spoil it with a marriage?? I never go look for a bar girl.. just good clean women who want a falong as a boyfriend..

When they speak of marriage and kids.. then that is a different story if you are young and want that.. but older guys really only need a good housekeeper/maid to keep their homes clean for 200 to 500 a day and at occasional squeeze for the evenings." Rent a wife" for a day of two and get it out of your system.. then come and get a new puppy from me and I bet you will be much happier with the dog and he will cost far less than that wife.. Again this is only an opinion and not the way for all.. but is sure works for me..

Wow, what an inappropriate response to a real estate question..

I would like proof of your rubber stamp please! and two copys translated with an competant authority notorized in duplicate along with another competant autority to show proof of the first cometant authority...kawp khun klup :jap: and another to show authority for sarcasm plz.

Mai Pen Rai....We all do a little yacking out of order on here, it is no crime...EZ Ez,,

To the OP, changing name at your local Amphur is easy and i think she can even change "Mrs" to "Miss" if she wants (while still being married). You'd better go along with her though; if you don't they will probably say you are needed to sign papers (when you do go they will probably not require you to sign any paper as they just love to waste peoples time)

[DrDave]

We had a somewhat similar western name issue at the Land Office recently.

My wife and her sister currently own a plot of land - both of their names are on the Nor Sor 3 Gor. Due to the manner in which they purchased the plot, and a quirky Thai law involving family members, history and land ownership, we needed to buy out my wife's sister, and re-title the plot solely in my wife's name to avoid the possibility of another sibling claiming title to the land. (That's another story).

In any event, my wife's sister lives in England, has a western surname - but is now divorced. Her western surname is on the Nor Sor 3 Gor, as is my wife's Thai surname (we were married in the US, but never registered the marriage, or changed her surname in Thailand).

When my wife and her sister appeared at the Land Office to transfer the land, they were told that under no circumstances could the sister sell her interest in the land to my wife, because she has a western surname but is divorced! The only way they would process the sale and re-titling of the land was if the sister were to change her surname back to a Thai name prior to selling her interest. In addition, my wife was told that even though I had signed the "no interest in this property" form, she would have to produce a copy of our marriage certificate translated into Thai and stamped by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. (The original certificate in English she produced complete with validation stamps from the State of California, Secretary of State of the United States, and the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles apparently wasn't good enough).

In retrospect, if my wife's sister hadn't stated that she was divorced, and my wife hadn't stated that she was married, then they would have happily processed the transaction on the spot. In any event, it seems totally ridiculous that they found the seller's surname (wife's sister) unacceptable, even though all of her official Thai documents (passport, ID card) carry that same name.

[SouthernMan3]

When we got married my wife took my surname for two reasons.

1) She likes it, it is a good name.

2) In America it is a name of power.

It has never stopped or slowed us down from doing anything, anywhere.

Just the opposite.

I suppose it matters what your surname is as to the rules that apply...

[DoubtingThomas]

I got married twice.. and never got married again .. just live with them is the really the best way.. If you have money why throw it away on someone or something you will normally lose on? I just cannot see the logic behind any Thai/farang marriage unless it is just for business deals. 99% of all the women here will burn all westerners.. it has been proven the course of their actions for over 100 years. We all love the "fruits" of living here as do most.. but to marry and then slowly give it all away.. You guys who do this are nuts.. So many women are willing to give us what we want and what we need... why spoil it with a marriage?? I never go look for a bar girl.. just good clean women who want a falong as a boyfriend..

When they speak of marriage and kids.. then that is a different story if you are young and want that.. but older guys really only need a good housekeeper/maid to keep their homes clean for 200 to 500 a day and at occasional squeeze for the evenings." Rent a wife" for a day of two and get it out of your system.. then come and get a new puppy from me and I bet you will be much happier with the dog and he will cost far less than that wife.. Again this is only an opinion and not the way for all.. but is sure works for me..

Wow, what an inappropriate response to a real estate question..

To the OP, changing name at your local Amphur is easy and i think she can even change "Mrs" to "Miss" if she wants (while still being married). You'd better go along with her though; if you don't they will probably say you are needed to sign papers (when you do go they will probably not require you to sign any paper as they just love to waste peoples time)

Is that right about changing back to "Miss", Dave? I was under the impression that once a "Mrs." always a Mrs. in Thailand. It sticks in my mind because I raised that very issue with an acquaintance who had changed her name from her (Thai) married name back to her maiden name when she divorced but her passport still said Mrs. Perhaps she didn't know, but when I asked I was told she was stuck with Mrs. Perhaps it changed at the same time as the rule about taking the husbands name. (But even that might be a TV - or somewhere - misinform. What do I know?). Having said all that my missus kept her Thai maiden name because in Thailand, it just makes sense (a farang name just makes you a target). So, no new passport and it still says "Miss". No immigration issues anywhere, btw. Also, I might add, it is so common for a married couple to have different names in the West now our marital status has never been questioned, anywhere.

Oh, and Jack. You're a sad bugger. Post elsewhere if you must, but make it relevant. It is utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

[mca]

When we got married my wife took my surname for two reasons.

2) In America it is a name of power.

May I introduce Mr and Mrs 12 volt battery.

[SouthernMan3]

When we got married my wife took my surname for two reasons.

2) In America it is a name of power.

May I introduce Mr and Mrs 12 volt battery.

Energizer Bunny !!!

[mca]

[frenchfarangjomtien]

When we got married my wife took my surname for two reasons.

1) She likes it, it is a good name.

2) In America it is a name of power.

It has never stopped or slowed us down from doing anything, anywhere.

Just the opposite.

I suppose it matters what your surname is as to the rules that apply...

Exactly what i was saying, some Thai like to show off with a foreigner name, but not all fortunately.

[SouthernMan3]

When we got married my wife took my surname for two reasons.

1) She likes it, it is a good name.

2) In America it is a name of power.

It has never stopped or slowed us down from doing anything, anywhere.

Just the opposite.

I suppose it matters what your surname is as to the rules that apply...

Exactly what i was saying, some Thai like to show off with a foreigner name, but not all fortunately.

You can think what ever you want.

For us it has nothing to do with showing off.

If we want to show off we can just but a 50 million baht house and a fleet of rolls royces...

[mkawish]

I do not want to imply anything to worry you.

But did you have those important papers looked over by your own attorney (English speaking fluently) to see, if:

What they are, are really what they are?

Are those valuable paper acceptable by the judicial system?

Are you able to do whatever you want to do, after certain event, with those paper?

It is worth a few thousand baht to make sure that you have all the paper that you can use in court for your own intentions! :jap:

I have seen several documents that farang claimed that they are legit because the wives' attorneys drew them up,

yes, they are legal paper, but those paper are lacking in essence and details rendering it almost useless in terms of application and enforcement.

Sure hope, yours are not like that. :jap:

I have been married for 15 years, (VERY HAPPILY). My wife changed to my last name, after some 7 years of marriage, because I almost went to jail one night going into a hotel, and they wanted to treat my wife like I had just rented her for the evening. Naturally I got into a huge fight with several of the hotel employees.

Now to the subject, I have signed to form at least 20 times when we have purchased property at the land office. Also the manger at the land office realized she had purchased land as a single woman when she was in fact married to me, and could have lost all that land. He is really a nice person, and took care to go back and update the old Chanotes.

It is a simple form you sign. Takes about 30 seconds, and says this is not your money. Because we have no children, we also file a USEFRET, just to keep the relatives away, should something ever happen to her and not me. I am also on a will, which will give me ownership for up to 6 months after her death to transfer the property to a Thai.

[old wanderer]

I do not want to imply anything to worry you.

But did you have those important papers looked over by your own attorney (English speaking fluently) to see, if:

What they are, are really what they are?

Are those valuable paper acceptable by the judicial system?

Are you able to do whatever you want to do, after certain event, with those paper?

It is worth a few thousand baht to make sure that you have all the paper that you can use in court for your own intentions! :jap:

I have seen several documents that farang claimed that they are legit because the wives' attorneys drew them up,

yes, they are legal paper, but those paper are lacking in essence and details rendering it almost useless in terms of application and enforcement.

Sure hope, yours are not like that. :jap:

I have been married for 15 years, (VERY HAPPILY). My wife changed to my last name, after some 7 years of marriage, because I almost went to jail one night going into a hotel, and they wanted to treat my wife like I had just rented her for the evening. Naturally I got into a huge fight with several of the hotel employees.

Now to the subject, I have signed to form at least 20 times when we have purchased property at the land office. Also the manger at the land office realized she had purchased land as a single woman when she was in fact married to me, and could have lost all that land. He is really a nice person, and took care to go back and update the old Chanotes.

It is a simple form you sign. Takes about 30 seconds, and says this is not your money. Because we have no children, we also file a USEFRET, just to keep the relatives away, should something ever happen to her and not me. I am also on a will, which will give me ownership for up to 6 months after her death to transfer the property to a Thai.

Did that....