Cbr 250 Vs Ninja 250

[dave_boo]

japs spec numbers, japs emission requirements

may be huge differences to LOS spec bikes, on par with EuroIV bikes and California bikes

Any links stating that the JDM bikes have different specs than those sold in LOS?

Because I distinctly remember the fact that there were claims that the LOS version of the NInja 250 had more power than the Euro version and nobody could provide a link....I highly doubt that there's any difference between the bikes sold in Japan and Thailand...

A Japenes sold bike is totally unable to pass Thai/EuroIV/ Calif emission without extensive modificatons.

According to Yamaha Thailand, so all the bikes yammy sells here are Calif spec, except for lights and speedo, as stated by yammy LOS in a BKK printed source we are not allowed to quote on TV.

So you're looking at a bike(s) that was specifically designed, several years ago, for the JDM and comparing it to a bike that Honda has declared to be an international bike AND a 'green' bike?

A bit odd...

[katabeachbum]

japs spec numbers, japs emission requirements

may be huge differences to LOS spec bikes, on par with EuroIV bikes and California bikes

Any links stating that the JDM bikes have different specs than those sold in LOS?

Because I distinctly remember the fact that there were claims that the LOS version of the NInja 250 had more power than the Euro version and nobody could provide a link....I highly doubt that there's any difference between the bikes sold in Japan and Thailand...

A Japenes sold bike is totally unable to pass Thai/EuroIV/ Calif emission without extensive modificatons.

According to Yamaha Thailand, so all the bikes yammy sells here are Calif spec, except for lights and speedo, as stated by yammy LOS in a BKK printed source we are not allowed to quote on TV.

So you're looking at a bike(s) that was specifically designed, several years ago, for the JDM and comparing it to a bike that Honda has declared to be an international bike AND a 'green' bike?

A bit odd...

Hondas international bikes has different specs for different markets, as all makes do.

Several reasons for this, one is emission, one is place of manufactor parts, one is HP limiting for Insurance or DL requiremnts, one is def lights.

A LOS sold bike must have at least 70% LOS made parts to avoid taxes.

Some bikes even come with different brakes for different markets, just looked at the Versys spec, it comes with Bosch brakes in UK and Tokico/Nissin in LOS.

[appropriate]

Perhaps all the US ninjas on youtube who cant do 0-100kph* under 7 seconds and as fast as the CBR are all jap spec too.

*or 92kph as the ninja is 8% optimistic.

[appropriate]

The pettiness of the arguments here is somewhat disappointing, although nto unexpected. The difference in speed, particularly acceleration based on the figured above, would not be noticeable to any but the most experienced riders.

Both bikes are excellent in their own right, and the all this silly one-up-man-ship reaks of little willy syndrome.

I agree completely.

So just to recap,

0-100kph - CBR is a ninja killer.

Torque - CBR is a ninja killer.

Mileage - CBR is ninja killer.

Price - CBR is a ninja killer.

[dave_boo]

japs spec numbers, japs emission requirements

may be huge differences to LOS spec bikes, on par with EuroIV bikes and California bikes

Any links stating that the JDM bikes have different specs than those sold in LOS?

Because I distinctly remember the fact that there were claims that the LOS version of the NInja 250 had more power than the Euro version and nobody could provide a link....I highly doubt that there's any difference between the bikes sold in Japan and Thailand...

A Japenes sold bike is totally unable to pass Thai/EuroIV/ Calif emission without extensive modificatons.

According to Yamaha Thailand, so all the bikes yammy sells here are Calif spec, except for lights and speedo, as stated by yammy LOS in a BKK printed source we are not allowed to quote on TV.

So you're looking at a bike(s) that was specifically designed, several years ago, for the JDM and comparing it to a bike that Honda has declared to be an international bike AND a 'green' bike?

A bit odd...

Hondas international bikes has different specs for different markets, as all makes do.

Several reasons for this, one is emission, one is place of manufactor parts, one is HP limiting for Insurance or DL requiremnts, one is def lights.

A LOS sold bike must have at least 70% LOS made parts to avoid taxes.

Some bikes even come with different brakes for different markets, just looked at the Versys spec, it comes with Bosch brakes in UK and Tokico/Nissin in LOS.

Historically true; but there's also some lag time where the bikes that aren't Eruo spec/California spec are released months if not quarters earlier and then emissions controls are fully developed....and yet the bikes being released world-wide are all happening at the same time....but it's conjecture on both our parts; we'll know when the parts lists are posted on the intraweb and we can see if the ECUs have different numbers...

[katabeachbum]

Hondas international bikes has different specs for different markets, as all makes do.

Several reasons for this, one is emission, one is place of manufactor parts, one is HP limiting for Insurance or DL requiremnts, one is def lights.

A LOS sold bike must have at least 70% LOS made parts to avoid taxes.

Some bikes even come with different brakes for different markets, just looked at the Versys spec, it comes with Bosch brakes in UK and Tokico/Nissin in LOS.

Historically true; but there's also some lag time where the bikes that aren't Eruo spec/California spec are released months if not quarters earlier and then emissions controls are fully developed....and yet the bikes being released world-wide are all happening at the same time....but it's conjecture on both our parts; we'll know when the parts lists are posted on the intraweb and we can see if the ECUs have different numbers...

ECU, sparkplugs, pistons, valves, cans(why supply more platinum in a cat than required by emission?) often more than 1/3 of a bike has different partsnumbers in different markets

[snorkelador]

What's the deal with the BabyNinja and carb vs. injection anyway? Seems to me they run, depending on the country they are sold in, either with fuel injection (e.g. TH) or with a carburettor (e.g. US)?

[appropriate]

This is an interesting page, with easy to use data-changer for the speed, rpm, and gear ratio on the ninja.

http://faq.ninja250.org/speed/

Can change the sproket data etc. and see what changes it will have on all the other data...

Interesting to see that at an indicated 170kph, as a poster said that was the topspeed when pinning it is in fact 156kph.

[taichiplanet]

The pettiness of the arguments here is somewhat disappointing, although nto unexpected. The difference in speed, particularly acceleration based on the figured above, would not be noticeable to any but the most experienced riders.

Both bikes are excellent in their own right, and the all this silly one-up-man-ship reaks of little willy syndrome.

The Honda may be a better bike in many ways, but then we should expect that as it is much newer. We should not forget however that Kawasaki has been carrying the flag for 'big bike' riders in Thailand for about 4 years now, making new big bikes accesable and affordable to us all when no other manufacturer did. For that, we should all be grateful.

The Ninja 250 set the benchmark for all others to strive for, and again, we should be grateful for that.

2012/13 will see a new Ninja 250 unveiled, are you all to go through the same carry-on again? I suspect yes, the willys won't have grown any by then.

Totally agree with your sentiments. Kwaka Thailand deserves kudos for bringing out the 250 and 650 a couple of years ago while APe Honda Thailand sat on their hands and did sweet F all. Maybe it was a convergence of things like world economy and getting a bike to be made in Thailand, but still it shouldn't have been too hard to bring say the VTR250 to the Thai market. Be nice if Kwaka does a Ninjette update earlier than expected! ABS brakes would be nice! :jap:

Yes, not much difference in those figures BUT it shows the CBR ahead; and this is a CBR250 Vs Ninja250 forum! Anyway, boys will boys and whose toys are better is something not to toy with!

Would be good to see some comparative lap times, though different circuits suit different bikes. I'd like to see how the handling of the 2 in standard form would compare; as it is the CBR250 has been described as adequate or neutral for road use and that is the most important thing. Still makes me wonder though!

[nikster]

The pettiness of the arguments here is somewhat disappointing, although nto unexpected. The difference in speed, particularly acceleration based on the figured above, would not be noticeable to any but the most experienced riders.

Both bikes are excellent in their own right, and the all this silly one-up-man-ship reaks of little willy syndrome.

The Honda may be a better bike in many ways, but then we should expect that as it is much newer. We should not forget however that Kawasaki has been carrying the flag for 'big bike' riders in Thailand for about 4 years now, making new big bikes accesable and affordable to us all when no other manufacturer did. For that, we should all be grateful.

The Ninja 250 set the benchmark for all others to strive for, and again, we should be grateful for that.

2012/13 will see a new Ninja 250 unveiled, are you all to go through the same carry-on again? I suspect yes, the willys won't have grown any by then.

I think you misinterpreted the numbers up there - what these numbers said to me was: There's no noticeable difference, and that tiny difference there is goes to the CBR. You need to see this in context to this thread and the other CBR threads where the common wisdom was that the Ninja is a much better bike, or at least a faster one, even though it costs more. The numbers show that this isn't so, that the CBR performance is up to par with the Ninja - that's why it's a big deal.

It's great that Kawa has started selling big bikes in Thailand, and honestly I have already said thank you by buying a new one every year. I think that's the kind of appreciation Kawa would most prefer. Nevertheless, if more big bikes are made here, it's even better. The presence of the CBR is a plus, and if it trumps the Ninja and drives Kawasaki to improve the Ninja - what's not to like?

Currently there's no contest between these bikes, considering the 30%+ price difference. I'd still be very partial to team green but not for ~45k baht more...

[Hili]

so the question is whos faster ..... or whos d... is bigger? I dont care i like my bike whether its a cbr or ninja

[dave_boo]

The pettiness of the arguments here is somewhat disappointing, although nto unexpected. The difference in speed, particularly acceleration based on the figured above, would not be noticeable to any but the most experienced riders.

Both bikes are excellent in their own right, and the all this silly one-up-man-ship reaks of little willy syndrome.

The Honda may be a better bike in many ways, but then we should expect that as it is much newer. We should not forget however that Kawasaki has been carrying the flag for 'big bike' riders in Thailand for about 4 years now, making new big bikes accesable and affordable to us all when no other manufacturer did. For that, we should all be grateful.

The Ninja 250 set the benchmark for all others to strive for, and again, we should be grateful for that.

2012/13 will see a new Ninja 250 unveiled, are you all to go through the same carry-on again? I suspect yes, the willys won't have grown any by then.

I think you misinterpreted the numbers up there - what these numbers said to me was: There's no noticeable difference, and that tiny difference there is goes to the CBR. You need to see this in context to this thread and the other CBR threads where the common wisdom was that the Ninja is a much better bike, or at least a faster one, even though it costs more. The numbers show that this isn't so, that the CBR performance is up to par with the Ninja - that's why it's a big deal.

It's great that Kawa has started selling big bikes in Thailand, and honestly I have already said thank you by buying a new one every year. I think that's the kind of appreciation Kawa would most prefer. Nevertheless, if more big bikes are made here, it's even better. The presence of the CBR is a plus, and if it trumps the Ninja and drives Kawasaki to improve the Ninja - what's not to like?

Currently there's no contest between these bikes, considering the 30%+ price difference. I'd still be very partial to team green but not for ~45k baht more...

While I don't presume to speak for GilesPeach, here's what I took from the numbers. In what was, from a minority of people in this thread, the Ninja's apparent overwhelming advantage in power that was unable to overcome the CBR. Furthermore, while we can inaccurately estimate (too few data points) further down a run, it's important to consider that wikipedia has the Ninja at 132 km/h at the end of a 1/4 mile (400m is 99.42% of a 1/4 mile) and acceleration is slow going on both bikes at that point on up to their top ends...

And I believe even the CBR 250 detractors admitted that it was a better in city bike; so basically that leaves the Ninja perhaps reaching its top speed from 130 a second or so faster than the CBR reaches its top speed and costing a lot more...

[dave_boo]

What's the deal with the BabyNinja and carb vs. injection anyway? Seems to me they run, depending on the country they are sold in, either with fuel injection (e.g. TH) or with a carburettor (e.g. US)?

My understanding that the main reason is cost savings; in the States at least it had to below 4000 USD (~120 000 THB) to meet Kawasaki's sales expectations. Add in the more lax emission laws and there's your reasons.

[CMX]

What is also becoming clear is that a track would have to have a fairly long straightaway in order for either bike to top out. That waiting can be really tiresome, too.

I think is it astonishing, astounding! that dave_ was able to out-predict (if early actual numbers from Japan are confirmed) the relative speeds of these bikes - using numbers, for heaven's sake.

Just numbers out-thinking experienced bikers with firm, not to say inflexible, views. I don't know, but it seems to suggest that considerable practical experience and strong opinions can fall before theory based on best facts and that humility is a better posture on forums than any rider's rhodomontade.

But it seems to hint that numbers work somehow, too???

[canuckamuck]

The bike forum would be a lot duller without Dave.

[dave_boo]

What is also becoming clear is that a track would have to have a fairly long straightaway in order for either bike to top out. That waiting can be really tiresome, too.

I think is it astonishing, astounding! that dave_ was able to out-predict (if early actual numbers from Japan are confirmed) the relative speeds of these bikes - using numbers, for heaven's sake.

Just numbers out-thinking experienced bikers with firm, not to say inflexible, views. I don't know, but it seems to suggest that considerable practical experience and strong opinions can fall before theory based on best facts and that humility is a better posture on forums than any rider's rhodomontade.

But it seems to hint that numbers work somehow, too???

Whether people know it or not we live in a world of numbers. They determine everything that happens; and to ignore them is at your own peril.

None the less those that have known me for a while can quickly chuckle and say, "Well, you're a Hondawhore and that can not be quantified". And you would be correct. However I usually preface my pro-Honda arguments with a disclaimer and let people know that anything I am saying is highly subjective. Real quantitative data I will analyse and (eventually) admit to when it goes against the brand, but if the numbers add up in my favour than I will not back down.

The bike forum would be a lot duller without Dave.

Hey, I try...

[snowflake]

so now we know for sure that the cbr is less than a second faster than the ninja on a quarter mile race? Wow, shitting my pants with excitment here...

My belief is that the cbr is a better bike because it is designed to be a relaxing town bike while the ninja needs more revs and is designed for sportier riding.

[taichiplanet]

video of a drag between a Ninja 250 (white) and a CBR250 (red).

[bobbin]

Six of one, half-dozen of the other, I say.

I also say..that Honda rider didn't seem too skillful. Fellow on the Black Ninja much more aggressive.

[taichiplanet]

Yeah, not much in it but good to get conformation of the figures we had before. I assume the CBR250 and white Ninja were stock, while the Black Ninja was modified. Would have been good if the riders swapped bikes but maybe no one wanted to give their bike to the rookie!

[JonnyF]

Yep, totally inconclusive. Rider skill much more of a factor in that situation as you can see with one bike winning one run and then the other bike winning by roughly the same distance on the next run. Just depends who got the jump. Same thing with the tests posted earlier in the thread, who knows what conditions the tests were done under? Who knows if the black Ninja was modded?

Only thing I noticed was that a couple of times the CBR got the jump and was passed late on by the Ninja. At that point there is very little skill involved as both riders will simply have it pinned, although again maybe the CBR rider shifted too early or too late half way down the straight.

The only thing conclusive is how pretty that white Ninja looks in comparison to the miniature VRF clone

[canuckamuck]

The only thing conclusive is how pretty that white Ninja looks in comparison to the miniature VRF clone

That conclusion is called a "reach"

As in reaching for something postive

[wjmark]

The only thing conclusive is how pretty that white Ninja looks in comparison to the miniature VRF clone

That's what this topic is really about, isn't it!

Well, a Thai guy with the nicest BMW I've seen (big yellow 1100 boxer) said my red CBR looks like a little Ducati...

:P Oh yeah, and

[snowflake]

if you try hard it looks like the mvaugusta f3.... Really hard! Or a jet plane...

[wjmark]

This seemed like a good reason to bring this topic to the top!

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2010/12/2011-honda-cbr250r-md-first-ride-part-2/

Smart comparison to the Ninja and detailed review. Points out that Honda indeed did take aim at the Ninja.

--

And,

"judging from a radar-equipped traffic sign, the CBR actually has little speedo error"

(which I noted in ThaiVisa's very first ride review - on the first bike sold in CM... Mine!)

;>]

A few weeks ago I hit 156, which is virtually 97mph, so I verify that a CBR250 can hit 95mph 'out of the box'.

[taichiplanet]

Motorcycle USA does a CBR250R Vs Ninja 250R.

Nothing new but interesting to see the comments. They dis the ABS to the point (in the video) of calling it dangerous and don't recommend it even for new riders! They also dislike the light clutch on the CBR, as it makes it feel like a toy. And the CBR feels small!

Ninja wins 3-1 Though the comparison video is sponsored by Kawasaki!

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/9/9134/Motorcycle-Article/Honda-CBR250R-vs-Kawasaki-Ninja-250R.aspx

Edited February 5, 2011 by taichiplanet

[JonnyF]

Motorcycle USA does a CBR250R Vs Ninja 250R.

Nothing new but interesting to see the comments. They dis the ABS to the point (in the video) of calling it dangerous and don't recommend it even for new riders! They also dislike the light clutch on the CBR, as it makes it feel like a toy. And the CBR feels small!

Ninja wins 3-1 Though the comparison video is sponsored by Kawasaki!

http://www.motorcycl...Ninja-250R.aspx

Interesting article, worth noting though that the US Ninja has a carb whereas the Thai Ninja has FI, which partially explains the difference in price between the two bikes in Thailand compared to the same price in the US.

Also interesting that even the carb'd Ninja wins the shootout - be interesting to see a shootout between the higher spec'd Thai Ninja vs. the CBR. The performance figures quoted pretty much back up what we saw in the video posted earlier, especially the comments re. the roll-on power which the Ninja seemed to dominate and is the least dependent on rider ability.

[BigBikeBKK]

Motorcycle USA does a CBR250R Vs Ninja 250R.

Nothing new but interesting to see the comments. They dis the ABS to the point (in the video) of calling it dangerous and don't recommend it even for new riders! They also dislike the light clutch on the CBR, as it makes it feel like a toy. And the CBR feels small!

Ninja wins 3-1 Though the comparison video is sponsored by Kawasaki!

http://www.motorcycl...Ninja-250R.aspx

Great review Taichi!

Thanks for sharing it with us.

It confirms what many have said already, the CBR is better in town and easier for new riders while the Ninja 250R is better pretty much everywhere else

No doubt the US Ninjette will get EFI like we already enjoy here in Thailand, but I wonder if Kawasaki will add an ABS option to their smallest Ninja...

Interesting comments about the linked braking- I've never ridden a bike with linked brakes, but considering what the reviewers experienced I think I'd prefer "old school" ABS where front and rear brakes operate independently. I think it would be very disconcerting to step on the rear brake and have the front end dive.

I wonder how much difference EFI makes in fuel economy? I can't remember what mileage I used to get on my Thai EFI Ninjette and fuel economy has never been important to me when shopping for a motorcycle, but I know some folks do care about mileage... Anyone know how the EFI Ninjette and CBR 250 compare in fuel economy?

Ride On!

Tony

[dave_boo]

Motorcycle USA does a CBR250R Vs Ninja 250R.

Nothing new but interesting to see the comments. They dis the ABS to the point (in the video) of calling it dangerous and don't recommend it even for new riders! They also dislike the light clutch on the CBR, as it makes it feel like a toy. And the CBR feels small!

Ninja wins 3-1 Though the comparison video is sponsored by Kawasaki!

http://www.motorcycl...Ninja-250R.aspx

Interesting article, worth noting though that the US Ninja has a carb whereas the Thai Ninja has FI, which partially explains the difference in price between the two bikes in Thailand compared to the same price in the US.

Also interesting that even the carb'd Ninja wins the shootout - be interesting to see a shootout between the higher spec'd Thai Ninja vs. the CBR. The performance figures quoted pretty much back up what we saw in the video posted earlier, especially the comments re. the roll-on power which the Ninja seemed to dominate and is the least dependent on rider ability.

Any review that starts off with a waxing poetic about nostalgia kinda raises questions about the partiality of the review doesn't it?

Also in regards to the clutch it was noted that it "almost feels broken at first", to me implying that the user is used to much more stiff springs on his clutches and perhaps got used to it.

Fueling was noted as being really good on the CBR. As was gas milage.

It's also interesting that the times for 0-60 (0-100 km/h) are quite reversed from what Youtube and owners have offered. However considering they claim that the Ninja hits 110 MPH (176 km/h) shows that any timing equipment was grossly uncalibrated and I'd bet that the speedos were used. So unless both bikes were ran one after the other by an impartial rider and timed with a calibrated speedo I'm going to call bunk to that.

I do agree with the Combi-ABS though; however how often is a n00b going to get their bike over so far that they would just want the rear brake activated? And add in the fact that under controlled circumstances they were able to just get the Ninja down to CBR's stopping distance (and did they have the same problems that the owners in LOS complain about in regards to the rear brake) I think overall ABS is good for n00bs and touring...maybe not so good for the track.

I'll have to look at it again, but IIRC the Ninja and CBR both had about the same percentage of RPMs left in top gear when running 75 MPH (120 km/h)....

And if you can't hear the exhaust change on the Ninja 250 that pulls ahead of the CBR (and other Ninja!) you may want to visit a hearing aid store...and the CBR owner wasn't even that good at the holeshot..

[dave_boo]

Motorcycle USA does a CBR250R Vs Ninja 250R.

Nothing new but interesting to see the comments. They dis the ABS to the point (in the video) of calling it dangerous and don't recommend it even for new riders! They also dislike the light clutch on the CBR, as it makes it feel like a toy. And the CBR feels small!

Ninja wins 3-1 Though the comparison video is sponsored by Kawasaki!

http://www.motorcycl...Ninja-250R.aspx

Great review Taichi!

Thanks for sharing it with us.

It confirms what many have said already, the CBR is better in town and easier for new riders while the Ninja 250R is better pretty much everywhere else

No doubt the US Ninjette will get EFI like we already enjoy here in Thailand, but I wonder if Kawasaki will add an ABS option to their smallest Ninja...

Interesting comments about the linked braking- I've never ridden a bike with linked brakes, but considering what the reviewers experienced I think I'd prefer "old school" ABS where front and rear brakes operate independently. I think it would be very disconcerting to step on the rear brake and have the front end dive.

I wonder how much difference EFI makes in fuel economy? I can't remember what mileage I used to get on my Thai EFI Ninjette and fuel economy has never been important to me when shopping for a motorcycle, but I know some folks do care about mileage... Anyone know how the EFI Ninjette and CBR 250 compare in fuel economy?

Ride On!

Tony

From earlier posts it seems that they're essentially even with a few or so extra km/L to the CBR.