Rawai Area A Ghost Town, How Is Kata, Karon, Patong This High Season?

[grumpyoldman]

I saw a newspaper from Europe say in the travel section, why go to Phuket when you can get it for half the price in Pattaya, this was for younger people they pointed out, people who go out every night.

HDRIDER spot on. A Russian friend who likes Pattaya said it's half the price of Phuket. BUT ocean water is polluted, but I guess if you stay out all night and roll out of bed at 4pm, an hour by the pool is good enough.

Reason for edit: typo Russian fiend

Edited January 29, 2011 by grumpyoldman

[LivinLOS]

I agree a lot of thais speak fluent russian, one of my thai staff is a former tour guide and he confirms this. But the fact remains that people are being told not to use the thai tour guides, because their whole job is to basically shuffle you from place to place where they get the highest commission, which is the rip off part of it. The thais know its a rip off, they know its bad for tourism to do this, but unfortunately they don't know how to do it any other way.

The downfall of this, in my opinion, is tourists and people who live here are pre-conditioned to hold tightly on to their cash and mostly assume that there might be a rip off built in somewhere to whatever they're doing.

My wife used to like to go make merit at the big Buddha.. So on special days we would be up there in the am, her in white, the usual..

I see this mini bus arrive.. the 'tour guide' gets out.. Assembles the little group.. Marches them over to the donation area.. Tells them to make a donation.. Marches them over to the outside and tells them to pay (optional but not the way she put it) then said to them.. Ok now you can have free time to look around.

That was the sum of information imparted and tour they received.

Edited January 29, 2011 by LivinLOS

[katabeachbum]

I saw a newspaper from Europe say in the travel section, why go to Phuket when you can get it for half the price in Pattaya, this was for younger people they pointed out, people who go out every night.

HDRIDER spot on. A Russian friend who likes Pattaya said it's half the price of Phuket. BUT ocean water is polluted, but I guess if you stay out all night and roll out of bed at 4pm, an hour by the pool is good enough.

Reason for edit: typo Russian fiend

Started last evening in Bangla, San Mig Lights and Heineken 70 baht all night at Kangaroo.

A large Capricosa at Pizzeria Hut at 260 baht.

Continued in a nightclub in Phuket town, great live music. Payed 1.025 baht for a large bottle of Red Label, 2 Soda and a bucket of ice, kept the credit card slip. Left the bottle for next time, as I often do.

Guess I have to go to pattaya to save some money :lol:

[chiang mai]

I travelled up to Bangkok on Wednesday for a couple of days, haven't been there for a few months and was really surprised at the lack of tourists - long standing businesses have scaled back staff numbers and hotel rates were oddly low for this time of year, most locals asking, "why no tourists", sad.

[briannorthfield]

The Russians are following the style of the Koreans..tours..only they will end up far worse they are more agresive..you can even see this when they go shopping...i have just experianced some thing i.have not seen before..about a week ago i was waiting for a lift by the BAKE shop opposite WAT CHALONG....next door is a tourist type shop[LATEX] SHOP.. OUTSIDE 5 MINIBUSES....I walked inside ...i could not beleive my eyes..there were about 60 RUSSIANS lying on beds ..male and female using mobile phone chatting etc...there was this big Russian guy COVERED IN GOLD AND ROLEX...I was aproached by a Russian lady who spoke perfect English..given a piece of paper printed in Russian with a menu on and asked if i wanted to come on there TOUR..I DECLINED..

I went outside were i started chatting to the minibus drivers and 2 thai guides..i recognised some of them and they knew me..they tolld me they take them around the Island from one similar type of place to another and finally back to there hotel......YOU CAN NOW SEE THE INCREASE IN RUSSIANS around RAWAI CHALONG ETC....But there are 2 types of Russian tourists the rich and the package deal tourist...wether this is going to be good or bad for Phuket.. only time will tell...personally.. I DONT THINK SO...

hi

i hate to say this, and i am not generalising.. but Russians are not the most Politest,Cleanest,Mannerable bunch in the World...

Brian

[simon43]

I know I have said this before (many times!). But I just cannot figure out what these hotels are doing to have such low occupancy figures.

- My small hotel in Phuket is running at about 140% occupancy every night (meaning I am passing customers to other hotels and getting the commission). I am busy sorting out the plans for building additional rooms

- 4 weeks ago I opened a similar size of hotel in Ao Nang, despite many people telling me that I was mad to do so. That hotel is running at 100% occupancy, with a few people being turned away (I haven't yet sorted out a hotel to send them to for the commission payment).

I can possibly understand if it is only my hotel near the airport was full. But my business in Ao Nang competes directly with existing hotels, not any sort of niche business, and is beating them hands-down!

None of this will make me a millionaire. But what are these other hotels not doing that I am doing?

Simon

[HDRIDER]

None of this will make me a millionaire. But what are these other hotels not doing that I am doing?

its right in front of you, me think, price price price

[snamos]

I know I have said this before (many times!). But I just cannot figure out what these hotels are doing to have such low occupancy figures.

- My small hotel in Phuket is running at about 140% occupancy every night (meaning I am passing customers to other hotels and getting the commission). I am busy sorting out the plans for building additional rooms

- 4 weeks ago I opened a similar size of hotel in Ao Nang, despite many people telling me that I was mad to do so. That hotel is running at 100% occupancy, with a few people being turned away (I haven't yet sorted out a hotel to send them to for the commission payment).

I can possibly understand if it is only my hotel near the airport was full. But my business in Ao Nang competes directly with existing hotels, not any sort of niche business, and is beating them hands-down!

None of this will make me a millionaire. But what are these other hotels not doing that I am doing?

Simon

So i will hazard a few guesses and say that your rooms are between 1000 and 2000 baht a night with no plus plus, you dont quadriple the price in high season, and you dont bump up the price in low season because you have no customers... your meals and are reasonably priced, you never charge more than 70 baht for an import beer...there are no gibbons (tuk tuk drivers) out the front hanging around annoying customers. And your staff are fairly good most of the time......

[barka]

I know I have said this before (many times!). But I just cannot figure out what these hotels are doing to have such low occupancy figures.

- My small hotel in Phuket is running at about 140% occupancy every night (meaning I am passing customers to other hotels and getting the commission). I am busy sorting out the plans for building additional rooms

- 4 weeks ago I opened a similar size of hotel in Ao Nang, despite many people telling me that I was mad to do so. That hotel is running at 100% occupancy, with a few people being turned away (I haven't yet sorted out a hotel to send them to for the commission payment).

I can possibly understand if it is only my hotel near the airport was full. But my business in Ao Nang competes directly with existing hotels, not any sort of niche business, and is beating them hands-down!

None of this will make me a millionaire. But what are these other hotels not doing that I am doing?

Simon

So i will hazard a few guesses and say that your rooms are between 1000 and 2000 baht a night with no plus plus, you dont quadriple the price in high season, and you dont bump up the price in low season because you have no customers... your meals and are reasonably priced, you never charge more than 70 baht for an import beer...there are no gibbons (tuk tuk drivers) out the front hanging around annoying customers. And your staff are fairly good most of the time......

Reasonable price..good value, good customer service,and clean rooms

...Menu for sucess...

[simon43]

Snamos, well I can't say that I can tick EVERY box in your list But as I described on another forum, for various reasons I use no Thai-owned booking agents, mainly use our hotel car to transfer guests, never order tuk-tuks, use a metered taxi owned by a family member for longer trips, always collect passengers from the airport, never make gala dinners compulsory, check competing hotel room-rates online and then undercut them by a few baht, use only the required number of Thai staff, (as opposed to employing cohorts of staff who sit around all day with inhalers stuck up their noses) etc

Basically, the hotels operate for the benefit of the guests, since they are paying me....

But isn't this all just common-sense?

Simon

[stuandchris]

Common sense, Thailand?

[Bedrockguesthouse]

just so u have a perspective i own a guesthouse bar grill in ban phe opposite koh samet island. this january our occupancy ran at 52% compared with last year at 96%.

i put it down to April riots and bad press, exchange rate factors, bad weather in europe and east coast usa.

[NamKangMan]

I know I have said this before (many times!). But I just cannot figure out what these hotels are doing to have such low occupancy figures.

- My small hotel in Phuket is running at about 140% occupancy every night (meaning I am passing customers to other hotels and getting the commission). I am busy sorting out the plans for building additional rooms

- 4 weeks ago I opened a similar size of hotel in Ao Nang, despite many people telling me that I was mad to do so. That hotel is running at 100% occupancy, with a few people being turned away (I haven't yet sorted out a hotel to send them to for the commission payment).

I can possibly understand if it is only my hotel near the airport was full. But my business in Ao Nang competes directly with existing hotels, not any sort of niche business, and is beating them hands-down!

None of this will make me a millionaire. But what are these other hotels not doing that I am doing?

Simon

So i will hazard a few guesses and say that your rooms are between 1000 and 2000 baht a night with no plus plus, you dont quadriple the price in high season, and you dont bump up the price in low season because you have no customers... your meals and are reasonably priced, you never charge more than 70 baht for an import beer...there are no gibbons (tuk tuk drivers) out the front hanging around annoying customers. And your staff are fairly good most of the time......

Gee, sounds a bit like rocket science to me. :)

Seriously though, somewhere in there you have to mention your Thai landlord. If he keeps bumping up your rent, you have no choice but to pass his increase onto your customers. The big problem comes when he puts the rent up to a point where he has now priced YOUR business out of the market, then you lose customers and possible go broke.

Unfortunately, the Thai landlord doesn't mind this because he can just sell another lease, with more key money as well, and do the same to the new leaseholder over the next few years.

Edited January 31, 2011 by NamKangMan

[taninthai]

If your hotel has got 100% occupancy then yes your hotels doing well but you can't really compare to other hotels hotels unless they have same number off rooms and prices many hotels in ao nang only run at 50% occupancy but they have 40 plus rooms .

Ao Nang now has an oversupply of hotel and guesthouses yes if you have only 6-10 rooms not hard to get 100% full any bigger and only Xmas and songrAn full.

Our resort near ao nang is having it's best year in 3 years and our prices have gone up not down this is due to beachfront uncommercialised location which there is a massive shortage off in ao nang

[barka]

Gee, sounds a bit like rocket science to me. :)

Seriously though, somewhere in there you have to mention your Thai landlord. If he keeps bumping up your rent, you have no choice but to pass his increase onto your customers. The big problem comes when he puts the rent up to a point where he has now priced YOUR business out of the market, then you lose customers and possible go broke.

Unfortunately, the Thai landlord doesn't mind this because he can just sell another lease, with more key money as well, and do the same to the new leaseholder over the next few years.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT....This happens all over the world...Landlords put there prices up...every one follows..its like a snowball..THEN all of a sudden no one makes PROFIT..without PROFIT no one cam survive...i have seen this so many times in Tourist destinations around the World...PHUKET is no differant....LANDLORDS...HAVE TO BE CAREFULL TO.....LOOK AT SPAIN...

[VBF]

More people, but even more wannabe business owners setting up shop in high competition business, spreading the customer base ever thinner.

Larger pie but smaller slices.

Yes, I would agree. The cake is not really getting bigger any more, just more and more businesses taking smaller slices. I know 2 long time restuarant owners and 2 bar owners in Patong just gave up when their 3 year leases expired, owner wanted big big key money increase and these guys were struggling already.

I also know one who did exactly that - just walked away from a bar he'd had for more than 7 years, and that had been a Patong "landmark" since the 1990s. Sad sign of the times, I fear.

[NamKangMan]

Gee, sounds a bit like rocket science to me. :)

Seriously though, somewhere in there you have to mention your Thai landlord. If he keeps bumping up your rent, you have no choice but to pass his increase onto your customers. The big problem comes when he puts the rent up to a point where he has now priced YOUR business out of the market, then you lose customers and possible go broke.

Unfortunately, the Thai landlord doesn't mind this because he can just sell another lease, with more key money as well, and do the same to the new leaseholder over the next few years.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT....This happens all over the world...Landlords put there prices up...every one follows..its like a snowball..THEN all of a sudden no one makes PROFIT..without PROFIT no one cam survive...i have seen this so many times in Tourist destinations around the World...PHUKET is no differant....LANDLORDS...HAVE TO BE CAREFULL TO.....LOOK AT SPAIN...

For a small beer bar, a rent increase of just a few thousand baht extra a month would most likely see a 10 baht increase in the price of a beer, as margins a very tight. So, your bar is now selling beer at 90 baht but the bar next door is still selling beer at 80 baht. You're going to be in trouble. A lot of these bars are closing up.

The Thai landlord just advertises the place with a new lease, with more key money, and waits for the next guy to sign up.

The day may come when we see these bars, and restaurants, just leased for 3 months of the year (high season) and left vacant for the rest of the year.

[snamos]

For a small beer bar, a rent increase of just a few thousand baht extra a month would most likely see a 10 baht increase in the price of a beer, as margins a very tight. So, your bar is now selling beer at 90 baht but the bar next door is still selling beer at 80 baht. You're going to be in trouble. A lot of these bars are closing up.

The Thai landlord just advertises the place with a new lease, with more key money, and waits for the next guy to sign up.

The day may come when we see these bars, and restaurants, just leased for 3 months of the year (high season) and left vacant for the rest of the year.

I wont be drinking where you drink...80 - 90 baht for a beer....you can still get a 285ml glass of beer in an air-conditioned pub in the suburbs of Sydney for that, and they actually pay the staff more than $10AUS a day, Guys are dreaming here, beer should be 50 - 60 baht in the bamboo huts they call bars.

[barka]

I wont be drinking where you drink...80 - 90 baht for a beer....you can still get a 285ml glass of beer in an air-conditioned pub in the suburbs of Sydney for that, and they actually pay the staff more than $10AUS a day, Guys are dreaming here, beer should be 50 - 60 baht in the bamboo huts they call bars.

THIS IS NOT SYDNEY....beer should be 50- 60 bht...it is in most places aroud Chalong Rawai Kata etc..BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE EXORBATANT RENTS IN PATONG...ITS NOT VIABLE....

[simon43]

The comment about how whether your business landlord is nice/nasty is of course, very relevant to the longterm success of your business. My Phuket hotel is on long-term leased land, registered at the Land Office etc. So I have never had an issue about this. The Ao Nang rent contract is the usual 3 years. If the landlord wants to increase the rent at the end of that period by an unrealistic amount, then we will just take our fixtures & fittings and business name/reputation to another empty hotel building in Ao Nang - there are plenty to choose from.

Of course, many businesses cannot do that because they rely on their exact location for passing trade etc.

The larger hotels can indeed have a problem if they have low occupancy rates, since their overheads (staff salaries, bills etc) are higher and still have to be paid.

For me, a family business of about 10 rooms seems the ideal balance, small enough to manage, large enough to generate a reasonable income

Simon

[losworld]

as a side note, and as maybe an indication of the world's economic woes, Ive had several customers at one of my businesses (not bar, restaurant) ask if we take credit cards, where in years past, never.

I won't speculate about the reason of it, but I also have had more payments by credit card than in recent years.

Unfortunately maybe racking the cards before planed bankruptcy.

[snamos]

I wont be drinking where you drink...80 - 90 baht for a beer....you can still get a 285ml glass of beer in an air-conditioned pub in the suburbs of Sydney for that, and they actually pay the staff more than $10AUS a day, Guys are dreaming here, beer should be 50 - 60 baht in the bamboo huts they call bars.

THIS IS NOT SYDNEY....beer should be 50- 60 bht...it is in most places aroud Chalong Rawai Kata etc..BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE EXORBATANT RENTS IN PATONG...ITS NOT VIABLE....

Thanks for that reminder I thought with the prices here we were in Sydney.

Nah thats my only complaint really...the prices of food and everything else is fairly reasonable...land prices are a joke though,

[KarenBravo]

...land prices are a joke though,

As are Sydney's...........

[snamos]

...land prices are a joke though,

As are Sydney's...........

About the same...allthough i have seen more expensive in Phuket....Big difference is you are allowed to OWN the land after you pay for it in Sydney

[stevenl]

land prices are a joke though,

Are they? People are buying and selling land at these prices, so why are they a joke?

[snamos]

onest there

land prices are a joke though,

Are they? People are buying and selling land at these prices, so why are they a joke?

a fool and his money are easily parted... there may be heaps of properties for sale but they dont necessarily sell...ive seen the sames houses at Kamala for sale for the last 5 years. Your not a real estate agent are u steven?...Let me guess "now is the time to buy". Ive never heard a real estate agent say any different.

Look all jokes aside ... the property market is very overpriced...if people are making money more power to ya. I think from memory a lot of Brits got shafted in Spain. Anyways im sure this is off topic!!

Im outta the country but Ive been chatting to a few of my friends who are based in Chalong they say it is absolutely dead dead dead.......so Im sure a few more places will go under...apparantly all the bars in Chalong have been closed down at 1am by the fuzz

[Old Croc]

Things are so quiet down south that a boatload of Rohingya refugees came ashore the other day in central Rawai and wandered the streets for days before anyone noticed.

[stevenl]

a fool and his money are easily parted... there may be heaps of properties for sale but they dont necessarily sell...ive seen the sames houses at Kamala for sale for the last 5 years. Your not a real estate agent are u steven?...Let me guess "now is the time to buy". Ive never heard a real estate agent say any different.

Look all jokes aside ... the property market is very overpriced...if people are making money more power to ya. I think from memory a lot of Brits got shafted in Spain. Anyways im sure this is off topic!!

Your right, off topic. But first you talk about land prices, and now you come up with houses in Kamala that have not been sold lately as proof that the land prices are a joke. Major difference here between housing prices and land prices.

[snamos]

a fool and his money are easily parted... there may be heaps of properties for sale but they dont necessarily sell...ive seen the sames houses at Kamala for sale for the last 5 years. Your not a real estate agent are u steven?...Let me guess "now is the time to buy". Ive never heard a real estate agent say any different.

Look all jokes aside ... the property market is very overpriced...if people are making money more power to ya. I think from memory a lot of Brits got shafted in Spain. Anyways im sure this is off topic!!

Your right, off topic. But first you talk about land prices, and now you come up with houses in Kamala that have not been sold lately as proof that the land prices are a joke. Major difference here between housing prices and land prices.

your right again steven.....just like the newspaper blog...i'll retract all my statements as im obviously wrong. If you read my post you will see it says "property market". Im not sure...maybe im wrong again...but property market to me means land and houses.

[stevenl]

If you read my post you will see it says "property market".

land prices are a joke though,