Thailand Rejects Foreign Election Monitors

[MisterMan]

Well you cant blame thai people for not liking farangs. Alot of creepy old horny men coming to thailand for sex.

Yes and having sex with creepy young horny Thai women.

Are you sure that they really have high libidos? I highly doubt that they fantasize about having sex with creepy old guys.

[brianb1944]

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We

do not have to surrender to them"

the Great Suthet speaks! Abisit would be so much better off without this loose canon ball - what a diplomat! maybe a candidate for the UN Chair?

PS he forget's his boss is an British Passport Holder and his education was in the place 'he doesn't respect'

who is a British passport holder? I do believe that you just made that up. Certainly he was born in UK of Thai parents, and was indeed well educated in the UK, but "British passport holder"/ just not true.

[mpdkorat]

What's the point in monitoring the election it's decide in the Moo Baans prior to going to the polling station by the Pu Yai Baan, after he has received the highest gift, incentive or bribe, depending in your point of view.

[Card]

The run up to the election is what they should be concerned with first. Then monitor the voting place. Let the people police themselves . The Thai voter as do other countries voters deserve what they legally vote into office. When, not if, unlawful acts are alleged/proven, disqualify every candidate of that party in the Province. Then press charges against those involved.

This solves what?

[IanBungy]

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We

do not have to surrender to them"

the Great Suthet speaks! Abisit would be so much better off without this loose canon ball - what a diplomat! maybe a candidate for the UN Chair?

PS he forget's his boss is an British Passport Holder and his education was in the place 'he doesn't respect'

I believe He would Fit Right in with the Rest of the "Elite" in the UN, Including Our Ex NZ PM Helen Clarke!!! Or Possibly He was only referring to UN and NGO Personal when He made the Statement as that Would also fit with most everyone Else's Opinion of them!!!

[taurus8]

Monitors have every ight to be in here ,by ASEANs own rules..Besides,what had SUTHEP to hide?

If he did not gave "FARANGS" in this country , he may well not be needed and hid Pay may not as Huge as it is now.

[PingManDan]

Show no respect, will receive worse from me, plus NO RESPECT GIVEN!! to this arsehol_e

How is there ever to be a fare election if someone does not govern the tallies.

Oh well here we go another oneside (phony) election.

Red Shirts have my vote !!!!

Edited March 25, 2011 by PingManDan

[howzat]

And I don't respect him as he is a xenophobic unlikeable politician who as far as I can see has no interest in anything or any body that does not fit into his self centered

view of life. I have a sympathy for the under priveleged and it's people like Suthep in his arrogance that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near public office. If I was Abhiset I would sack him. I finish now before I get personal about the little man.

[whybother]

"I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them," he said, using the Thai word for "Westerners".

Given that the OP specifically says that he said "farang", I would think that he said "farang".

As to the context of it, it would be good to get audio of the statement to hear what he actually said in the rest of the statement.

Maybe the OP hasn't been in Thailand long and can't understand the derogatory nature of the word. Generally, you only hear the boys straight off the boat use this word.

It doesn't matter if he understood the derogatory nature of the word. He quoted Suthep specifically as saying it, not just a translation.

[vahack]

the article says it all....

• "I don't respect 'farangs'. We do not have to surrender to them"
• The kingdom has suffered years of political instability, punctuated by unrest and military intervention, seeing 18 actual or attempted coups since 1932 when the country became a constitutional monarchy.
• Abhisit's government is seen as undemocratic by the Reds as it came to power in an army-backed 2008 parliamentary vote after a court ruling threw out the previous administration, made up of Thaksin allies who had won an election.
• Thailand is struggling to recover from mass Bangkok rallies by the Reds, in which more than 90 people died in clashes between troops and protesters in April and May last year. It was the worst political violence in decades.

yes, Thailand is very good at democracy..

[Buchholz]

Well....I certainly don't want to be where I'm not wanted. Panama has a wonderful retirement program for ex-pats full of tax credits and discounts, is not a military dictatorship and doesn't censor the newspapers or the internet.

I suppose I'll get arrested for posting this.

[rkidlad]

Imagine if a Western politician said he didn't respect a race of people and referred to them with an often derogatory and demeaning racial epithet.

It would be quite rightly be deemed unacceptable and the politician would have to explain and be held responsible for his comments.

Not so here, where Thai people in positions of power know that they are exempt from responsibility for their actions and actively encourage bigotry, racism and nationalism to further their own agendas.

I disagree in your comparison. It is not uncommon for Minority politicians in the west (at least in the US) to make comments that attack those with more power than them as well as accusing them of bad intentions against their people. In other words it is much more okay to slam other groups, societies or people that are stronger when it is done by those with less power.

As for Farang being a derogatory term, it is not. Although it generally used to describe white westerners it also can simply mean foreigners. Thailand is a different culture and they have no issue with calling a race or group what they are. Asian is by no means a derogatory term but it would be considered derogatory in the West for a waiter to tell the busboy to get those Asians a drink. In Thailand this it is perfectly acceptable.

While I have no doubt he made a mistake in the words he chose (if translated properly) I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form. But bottom line is this is not the West and it is their country run on the way they choose good or bad and it is not our place to tell them how to do things or that they should obey political correctness that may exist in the west and we should be offended when they don't adhere to our views. They may fail but it will be their failure and they certainly have the right to pick and choose how they will use the west to further their goals. The bottom line we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ... not the other way around.

Oh, lord!

I made a point in a previous post that we need to respect their culture and way of life. I still stand by that 100%. But I also said that racism is 100% wrong - regardless of culture. Are you seriously telling me now that we need to adapt to a racist mentality?

[Sydebolle]

While I agree with Minister Suthep that Thailand does not need "Farangs" to monitor things it does not implicate, that anyone has to "surrender" to election observers/inspectors. In my native Switzerland we do not need Thai election monitors because since 1291 we have not needed them and after 700 years we still have no need.

Suthep's message (if you take the emotional crap out) reads, that the democrats believe in "fair" elections (in as much as elections can be clean and fair here); while our red shirted friends dont trust a) the system and the democrats. Would that implicate, that the red shirt kettle calls the yellow shirted pot black?

My staff, with whom such issues are openly discussed, referred to the good luck, that money is coming in around July, co-incidentially when elections are held. And they simply dont care as the take money from everyone and ........ dont vote at all. Confirms an old "Farang" saying that Thais are the nicest people money can buy!

[sunanta]

Suthep's comments might seem a bit harsh and inappropriate (they are!), but if you ask any Thai - who isn't an ardent red shirt - how they feel about foreign election monitors, you'll probably get a similar response!

I read it as, he said that he didn't respect westerners. Period. Suppose it could be the interpretation?

jb1

or suppose it could be white meat stored in his daughter...money stopped coming home......lol lil spider monkey lookin dink

[Card]

Why not suggest to good old David Cammeron that we invite Thai Observers to our elections? Or for the non UK readers please ask your governments to invite the Thia Election Committee to observe your elections?..... Just an idea....Then we can all spend out time looking over each others shoulders.

The diference is that there is a great social divide in Thailand and everyone distrusts the election process - and one step to sorting that out is to have genuine election outcomes agreed on by internationally recognised observers. Without them the first step to resolving the social issues will not come about and we will have the yellows and reds and everyone else arguing over the outcome ad nauseum. It's not the same as western elections but western elections are monitored in one way or another eg. exit polls, but if any international groups could put forward a credible argument for any western elections to be monitored, I am sure it would be readily complied with. But Thai observers to a western election might object to there being no-one around from each party with a bag full of cash - they might see it as not facilitating a free and fair election.

[ginjag]

Imagine if a Western politician said he didn't respect a race of people and referred to them with an often derogatory and demeaning racial epithet.

It would be quite rightly be deemed unacceptable and the politician would have to explain and be held responsible for his comments.

Not so here, where Thai people in positions of power know that they are exempt from responsibility for their actions and actively encourage bigotry, racism and nationalism to further their own agendas.

I disagree in your comparison. It is not uncommon for Minority politicians in the west (at least in the US) to make comments that attack those with more power than them as well as accusing them of bad intentions against their people. In other words it is much more okay to slam other groups, societies or people that are stronger when it is done by those with less power.

As for Farang being a derogatory term, it is not. Although it generally used to describe white westerners it also can simply mean foreigners. Thailand is a different culture and they have no issue with calling a race or group what they are. Asian is by no means a derogatory term but it would be considered derogatory in the West for a waiter to tell the busboy to get those Asians a drink. In Thailand this it is perfectly acceptable.

While I have no doubt he made a mistake in the words he chose (if translated properly) I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form. But bottom line is this is not the West and it is their country run on the way they choose good or bad and it is not our place to tell them how to do things or that they should obey political correctness that may exist in the west and we should be offended when they don't adhere to our views. They may fail but it will be their failure and they certainly have the right to pick and choose how they will use the west to further their goals. The bottom line we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ... not the other way around.

I in turn disagree with your comparison. You're right in saying we are guests in this country, but we also also bring undeniably-positive assets to Thailand that they wouldn't have if we weren't here. Thais know this and Thai politicians should absolutely know this. Also, remember in Thai culture that the host offers to the guest, so again the fact that we are guests shouldn't deprive us of any right to suggestion as to how they can improve their country (I worded that carefully to make it clear that this is their choice, regardless of how much or little influence foreign culture and business has).

Notwithstanding his own personal feelings, Suthep's comment was a political mistake and I expect the opposition to reference it in the next censure debate when it comes around.

As for whether "farang" is racist... yes, I think it is, but not in the same way that Westerners' understanding of racism (a slur does not have to be derogatory to be offensive - but in Asian culture it does). It can be used in a derogatory way or a non-derogatory way, and I have used it in both contexts myself. When using the term to describe a group of people (e.g. "those farangs over there come from England") it is not generally derogatory. When using the term to describe a group of people who do not deserve respect (e.g. Suthep's "I don't respect farangs" or "farangs don't respect temples and get drunk all the time") it is plain offensive, especially when using the word "farang" instead of "khon dang chat" or "khon dang prathet". Thais are quite aware of this, in case you didn't know - no matter what they tell you. That's why, when a little kid in a small village somewhere might point at you and say "farang" to his/her mother because not many farangs are seen where they live, the mother will say something to tell the child to be quiet and offer a sheepish smile. Farang is not an offensive word on its own, but can be quite nasty in certain contexts.

As to whether Suthep's comments were the result of a dodgy translation - well, he really shouldn't have used the word 'farang' as I say above. Still though, let's give him the benefit of the doubt for argument's sake and he meant to say "We don't need foreign election monitors because this is a Thai election and we don't respect outsiders coming in and making judgements on how evolved the Thais are as a race" - well, that sounds rather indignant at the suggestion that they needed one in the first place, rather than a slur on how little he respects westerners. It still sounds like a rather offensive viewpoint, whichever way you look at it. As said above, this was a real political slip-up from my least favourite person in the Democrat-led coalition (and that's saying something given some of the unsavoury characters tied into it).

Apart from Suthep opening his gob in this manner, He happens to be Thai having said that his comments are offensive to us GUESTS it makes us uncomfortable here, so because we have the good fortune to have FORUM and are given the said subject, our answers are mainly to be anti Thai.

How can you answer to that being wrong NISA ???????????......as is the same with most threads, ive said before they open up cans of worms here-and you say SHHHHHHHHHHHHH ush, we are only guests. for gods sake back off a little.

[geriatrickid]

Imagine if a Western politician said he didn't respect a race of people and referred to them with an often derogatory and demeaning racial epithet.

It would be quite rightly be deemed unacceptable and the politician would have to explain and be held responsible for his comments.

Not so here, where Thai people in positions of power know that they are exempt from responsibility for their actions and actively encourage bigotry, racism and nationalism to further their own agendas.

I disagree in your comparison. It is not uncommon for Minority politicians in the west (at least in the US) to make comments that attack those with more power than them as well as accusing them of bad intentions against their people. In other words it is much more okay to slam other groups, societies or people that are stronger when it is done by those with less power.

As for Farang being a derogatory term, it is not. Although it generally used to describe white westerners it also can simply mean foreigners. Thailand is a different culture and they have no issue with calling a race or group what they are. Asian is by no means a derogatory term but it would be considered derogatory in the West for a waiter to tell the busboy to get those Asians a drink. In Thailand this it is perfectly acceptable.

While I have no doubt he made a mistake in the words he chose (if translated properly) I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form. But bottom line is this is not the West and it is their country run on the way they choose good or bad and it is not our place to tell them how to do things or that they should obey political correctness that may exist in the west and we should be offended when they don't adhere to our views. They may fail but it will be their failure and they certainly have the right to pick and choose how they will use the west to further their goals. The bottom line we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ... not the other way around.

The USA does not represent the west. If you are a self loathing American, good for you, but do not drag every other western country into the mud with you. I can assure you that the racist intent was conveyed and a politician in Spain, Canada, Australia, NZ, and many other WESTERN nations would be raked over the coals and face political censure. Instead of making excuses, why don't you put your thinking cap on and consider the political reality? The next election will be fraught with allegations of improper activities. Blocking the presence of international monitors who are regularly present as observers during western elections gets rid of neutral witnesses.

You are aware that western nations regularly allow and encourage foreign observers, right? And that has included the USA. It is mostly done for educational purposes as various election commissions try to improve their own systems by watching others in action. The refusal to block unbiased observers indicates to most people that Thailand has something to hide. It is understandable as Thailand since 2007 has been incapable of holding fair elections.

You are aware of the International Foundation for Electoral Systems, right? After all,you would have done a bit of digging before making excuses for this politician. IFES and other neutral world bodies dedicated to peaceful elections were blocked from activities in Thailand starting after the first coup. None of these groups has been encouraged in Thailand since the last coup and the arrival of PM Abhisit. Do you wonder why that is? How is it big old bad Thaksin was able to live with these groups but the military and its proxies is not?

Candidates have been buying votes in Thailand since at least 1936 when the practice was first recorded, according to King Prajadhipok’s Institute, a respected Thai organization partnering with IFES. Since then, the practice has become highly sophisticated, with a Thai government commission identifying evidence of at least 27 different forms of vote buying, IFES

[rwhoov]

I agree with the deputy PM's assessment as well. Western NGOs and their members are often as crooked as they come and fronts for intelligence agencies.

Of Course. And there's absolutely no corruption in Thailand.

[drdoom6996]

The past 4 elections have been monitored by Asia Network for Free Election (ANFREL) in conjunction with the Poll Watch Foundation and the People's Network for Elections in Thailand (P-NET).

The Election Commission of Thailand has fully supported this monitoring.

What Thailand has not allowed is western NGO's to monitor the elections.

TH

And what a great job they have done in the past.

[hansnl]

Well that's nothing new... How many times have I heard Thailand is for Thai, not farang... Maybe we ARE disrespected by the government here, just like most of the Thai people!

Oops

I wonder if this man has any idea what people in the west think about Thailand?

Might be an eye-opener.

Or maybe not

[pepi2005]

As if people didn't already know about the low ethical standards and IQ score of (most, luckily not all) Thai politicians.

[Suradit]

Reading some of my young Thai niece's schoolbooks it's no wonder they end up which such a twisted xenophobic view of reality. Taught (indoctrinated) from a very young age how special the Thai people are compared to everyone else.

Such a pity that such a beautiful country has such a high % of simpleminded fools populating it.

Do you really think the British or Americans or Japanese or Germans or French or Chinese ... do something different?

The imposition of the supposed surperior races on the supposed backward races ( also known as colonization or WWI & II or the final solution or Apartheid or the National Party or KKK or ... ) has been around for a long time and it certainly depended heavily on propaganda, indoctrination and simple-minded fools to implement it to a greater degree than anything seen in Thailand.

[anterian]

I hope any farang company thinking of investing here reads about this comment.

I wonder if Suthep would be surprised to hear my opinion of him?

[rayw]

Foolish Old Goat - does he not realise that with Election monitors there is less of a likelihood that the Reds will get away with large scale vote-buying which has (allegedly) happened in the past? This would give his party a much better chance of getting voted back in...

... unless of course, the Dems are planning on chucking around a few mill in vote buying

I must say I have been vociferously advocating externally independent monitored elections here for a few years now on this forum and stand 100% behind that. It is surely more necessary and needed today than it even was before.

Suthep is either a bloody idiot with a weak brain or a corrupt man, either way he should be nowhere near any Government position. Nothing to do with Farangs this is about Thailand and its people and having a future that is prosperous and stable without strife and fighting mainly caused by political corruption and selfish greed of a few in positions of power. Corruption in politics, where it should never be, is killing this country. Of course the election needs monitoring in a country where all the past recent elections have been clearly proved to be rife with corruption. As long as they are monitored by an unbiased independent group that has NO vested interest here then that will be fine, so a body associated say with the UN should be right and proper for ANY country like Thailand that obviously needs monitored elections. How can any honest and sane man say anything different considering the past electoral history here? For goodness sake Thailand grow up and get rid of ALL corrupt selfish government ministers and their cronies and let this country become truly great as it should be.

A properly monitored election here is vital, else you will see the "elected" government that results will not be accepted as the true people's government by most of the people here and you have seen what destructive problems arise over the past few years. Anyone caught by the monitors buying votes or corrupting the poll in any way should be jailed for 5 years and banned from any political role in the future as they are in almost all sensible responsible democratic countries. No single party should rule ANY country without more than 50% of its electorate voting for it, people give power NOT MONEY !!! Any political party whether left, centre or right wing that has a true majority vote is entitled to rule for the next term of Government and be accepted by all the people no matter what their personal political viewpoints are. That is surely for any intelligent and honest person a no brainer as then proper democracy will be at work.

Edited March 25, 2011 by rayw

[bitterbatter]

The feeling of disrespect in now mutual !!! Jerk!

I have a more profound and less racist viewpoint that actually has some legitimate truth behind it!

"We don't trust politicians"

hence, the need for 'international observers' to make sure that things are handled without corrupted politicians stuffing the ballot boxes

[cloudhopper]

We farang here thank you Minister Sutep; it is far more useful to understand how we are actually regarded than how we might assume to be regarded.

[drdoom6996]

Corruption at its finest. Educate in western countries. Rich Thai's and politicians send their money to western countries. Thailand supposedly is doing all it can to convince western tourists to vacation here. Westerners should invest here. But Thai leaders don't want them to look at how Thais are Paid To Vote. Politicians don't trust them. If I had already started paying for votes I wouldn't want anybody here to monitor the vote. All those 100 baht notes that have been paid out already would then be more money down the drain. TIT

[Pi Sek]

It is understandable as Thailand since 2007 has been incapable of holding fair elections.

In my honest opinion, Thailand has never held a truly democratic "free and fair" election. For starters, the education levels traditionally mean that a lot of Thais don't actually know what a politician is or what they do. Also, a vote in Thailand is not accepted as a private and personal choice for a number of reasons, from both within the family and within the community.

Very eloquently put.

+1

[Oberkommando]

I disagree in your comparison. It is not uncommon for Minority politicians in the west (at least in the US) to make comments that attack those with more power than them as well as accusing them of bad intentions against their people. In other words it is much more okay to slam other groups, societies or people that are stronger when it is done by those with less power.

As for Farang being a derogatory term, it is not. Although it generally used to describe white westerners it also can simply mean foreigners. Thailand is a different culture and they have no issue with calling a race or group what they are. Asian is by no means a derogatory term but it would be considered derogatory in the West for a waiter to tell the busboy to get those Asians a drink. In Thailand this it is perfectly acceptable.

While I have no doubt he made a mistake in the words he chose (if translated properly) I am very confident his words were not meant to be racist in any way shape or form. But bottom line is this is not the West and it is their country run on the way they choose good or bad and it is not our place to tell them how to do things or that they should obey political correctness that may exist in the west and we should be offended when they don't adhere to our views. They may fail but it will be their failure and they certainly have the right to pick and choose how they will use the west to further their goals. The bottom line we are guests in THEIR country and WE need to adapt to them ... not the other way around.

The word farang can and is used in a derogatory and demeaning manner and it is not correct for a politician to be referring to a group of people in that manner however I am quite sure his meaning was properly conveyed and the lack of respect intentionally meant. Suthep is an arrogant and thoroughly despicable individual from what I know of him. The point was that he intentionally, whether racist or not, sets out to disrespect foreigners and in particular Westerners to curry favour when he simply could have said international observers were not wanted tells you everything you need to know.

Thai politics since the late 90's has been built on racist, nationalist and xenophobic policy to appeal to the masses. Thaksin was the master.

Your argument that racism is ok because the Thais are ok with insulting other races is of course flawed but as usual you stretch to apologise and defend everything they do with the old we are guests chestnut and if you don't like it go home, the Thais can do what they want it's their country nonsense tacked on for good measure.

[Oberkommando]

It is understandable as Thailand since 2007 has been incapable of holding fair elections.

In my honest opinion, Thailand has never held a truly democratic "free and fair" election. For starters, the education levels traditionally mean that a lot of Thais don't actually know what a politician is or what they do. Also, a vote in Thailand is not accepted as a private and personal choice for a number of reasons, from both within the family and within the community.

Very eloquently put.

+1

Indeed +2