Developing Hostage Crisis Story?

[sriracha john]

A disturbing story just put out. A drastic departure from the "normal" violence occuring in the Deep South on a daily basis. Hoping extremely strongly that things are resolved peacefully....

Villagers take two soldiers hostage

Published on Sep 21 , 2005

About 200 villagers held two Thai soldiers hostage inside a mosque Wednesday after the soldiers went to investigate a deadly ambush in Narathiwat province, according to the military.

Late last night two soldiers were detained in Tanyong Limo village of Ranae district after their car broke down as they were investigating the ambush in which four villagers were wounded and one died, said Major General Pongsak Tntharasuangsak, a miltiary spokesman.

Pongsak would not identify the two soldiers, but said they were in plain clothes and were in a car chasing a pickup truck used by militants.

The villagers have formed a human shield around the mosque in which the soldiers were being held, according to news report.

Narathiwat governor Pracha Taerat and navy Captain Trikwan Krairish were

attempting to negotiate with the villagers for their release, but were not allowed to cross a bridge leading to the mosque.

Villagers assured them that the two hostages were safe.

"The villagers demanded Malaysian reporters come to cover the incident, not Thai reporters, because they do not trust the independence and credibility of Thai journalists in the area, one villager said.

[sriracha john]

This article seems to more clearly define the reason for the villagers' actions. Still hoping things end in a peaceful manner:

Angry Muslim villagers hold two soldiers hostage after shooting in southern Thailand

(AP) BANGKOK, Thailand - Hundreds of angry Muslim villagers in southern Thailand held two soldiers hostage on Wednesday after accusing a group of unidentified gunmen of wounding five people in a tea shop, a provincial governor said.

The villagers, saying the gunmen were soldiers armed with assault rifles, refused to negotiate with authorities and locked the two hostages in a school, according to the governor of Narathiwat province Pracha Terat. The incident occurred Tuesday evening in the village of Tanyolimo.

The governor, Pracha Terat, said the situation was tense, with the villagers asking foreign reporters to come and report on the situation since they didn’t trust the local Thai media. More than 100 security personnel were rushed to the scene while some 500 villagers sealed the route into the area, Pracha said.

After the shooting, villagers rounded up an army patrol, seizing two of the soldiers while six others escaped. The hands of the two were tied and they were locked up in a village school.

Two years ago, when the violence erupted in southern Thailand, villagers in the province seized three border patrol policemen and beat them to death

[chownah]

is there a link?

[sriracha john]

The news I saw broke out first on The Nation...

followups are coming in quickly now from variety of sources... this one is BBC (edit repeating portions):

Women from the village helped seal off the roads

Thailand villagers seize soldiers

Two soldiers are being held bound and gagged in Thailand's troubled south, as hundreds of villagers prevent security forces from retrieving them.

The men were seized after a drive-by shooting in the village of Tanyong Limo, which left one person dead.

Villagers took the two soldiers, who were not in uniform, and accused them of being involved in the shooting.

Thai authorities said the two were in fact chasing the suspected militants who carried out the attack.

According to the governor of Narathiwat province, Pracha Terat, the situation in Tanyong Limo remained tense.

[sriracha john]

In a nasty turn of events, apparently the hostages have both been stabbed to death...

link coming...

Villagers' uproar A group of children and women gather in front of Tanyong Limo village of Ranae district in Narathiwat province to prevent securities from entering the village. The villagers held hostage two navy officers hostage but the two officers were later stabbed to death.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2005/09/20/

Edited September 21, 2005 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Sounds like a very brutal ending...

12 minutes ago

TANYONG LIMO, Thailand (AFP) - Two Thai soldiers who had been held hostage in a mosque in southern Thailand have been beaten to death, 18 hours after they were seized, an army officer said.

"I can confirm that our two officers are dead. We are going to get their bodies from the villagers," Colonel Apithai Sawangpob told AFP.

The blood-soaked bodies of the two navy officers were carried out from Tanyong Limo village and taken to Narathiwat provincial hospital, an AFP reporter saw.

Military officials identified them as Sub-Lieutenant Vinai Nabut and Petty Officer Khamthon Thongeiat.

The two had been stabbed in their stomachs and badly beaten about their heads, Apithai said.

They had been taken hostage late Tuesday as they chased suspected militants who had killed one man and wounded four others in the village, police said.

Navy Captain Trikwan Krairish, who is their superior officer, expressed shock at their deaths.

"I regret that they finally were killed. We had surrendered to their demand by bringing Malaysian reporters but our two soldiers were killed anyway," he told reporters at the scene.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/a...ad_050921084813

[spog]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4266670.stm

Thai villagers kill two soldiers

Two soldiers have been killed by villagers in southern Thailand after they were accused over a shooting.

The men were seized after a drive-by shooting in the village of Tanyong Limo, which left one person dead.

Villagers accused the soldiers, who were not wearing uniform, of being involved in the attack.

Security officials said a group of youths rushed into the house where the two soldiers were being held, bound and gagged, and killed them.

Thai authorities have denied the soldiers were involved in the shooting, saying the men were in fact chasing the suspected militants who carried out the attack.

Hundreds of villagers had earlier prevented security forces from entering the village, in Narathiwat province.

According to the governor of the province, villagers had refused to negotiate with local officials, and had called for journalists from nearby Malaysia to come and report on the incident, since they did not trust the Thai media.

Thailand's largely Muslim southern provinces have been hit by a wave of violence for more than a year and a half, leaving more than 900 people dead.

The government has blamed Muslim separatists, while local people have been angered by the security forces' actions.

[stoneman]

This would be a great "excuse" for Taksin to elevate the level of the conflict...

Does anyone remember the Gulf of Tomkin incident in the Viet Nam conflict??

[sriracha john]

Once lost, trust is not an easy thing to get back:

HOSTAGE KILLINGS: Trust has vanished: NRC

Published on September 22, 2005

Villagers’ appeal to foreign media shows yesterday’s incident was a ‘call for help’; PM urged to show restraint in reaction. The killing of two marines at Tanyonglimo village in Narathiwat showed that the villagers’ trust in the government had evaporated, members of the National Reconciliation Commission (NRC) said yesterday.

One NRC member, Ahmed-Somboon Bualuang, said the incident was similar to an incident two years ago in the same province, when two border patrol police were held hostage and later lynched by an angry mob.

He believed yesterday’s incident was a cry to the government to find out the truth, rather than any attempt to forestall the extension of the government’s state of emergency decree.

The villagers demanded that foreign media, particularly Malaysian reporters, be permitted to enter the village to document the incident and that a committee be set up to investigate the teashop shooting on Tuesday night that killed two villagers and injured four.

Somboon urged the government to learn from the tragedy and rethink its entire policy and approach to the deep South.

Worawit Baru, another member of the National Reconciliation Commission, urged Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to restrain himself and not to act out of emotion, warning that any action or policy lacking serious thought could have grave consequences.

“The prime minister said the two marines would not die for free,” Worawit said. “I would like to ask the prime minister: What about the two villagers who were shot dead and the four who were injured [in Tuesday night’s incident at a local teashop]?”

Petdao Tohmeena, another NRC member, said the villagers did not trust the government to protect them.

“We have lost out to the insurgents in this effort to win the hearts and minds of local residents because the state has never brought out the truth behind the situation in the region,” Petdao said.

The lack of trust had resulted in villagers turning their backs on state agencies and choosing whatever action they deemed necessary, she said.

[drummer]

Why would Thaksin WANT to escalate things in the South? LBJ had his hand in military contracts, and personally benefitted from the Gulf of Tonkin charade. FDR had goor reasons to initiate the Pearl Harbor attacks (also a detailed plan to lure Japan into attacking), and there were reasons to support the Spanish American War ("I'll give you a war"-Hearst)

But I don't see much reason for Thaksin to stir up the South- unless he wants the gov't to buy them all mobile phones to compensate! He stands to lose from an escalation of activity - as proof that his iron policies aren't working. Those that like his iron-fistedness are already on his side and won't be swayed by an escalation of violence. Those that don't like it will blame him for the action - not change their minds as a result of it.

Could be foreign influence - there are other parties who benefit from unrest, both foreign and domestic. Could be mafia related activity, too.

It doesn't sound like the tea shop is something that the terrorists would hit for no reason - especially since the people in it obviously don't like the gov't already.

Curious.

[sriracha john]

Apparently, some things are more important than a hostage crisis... :

Negotiators having lunch when incident turned bad

Government negotiators yesterday showed a lack of professional skills and tactics in negotiating to save the lives of two marines in the 19-hour Tanyonglimo drama. Officials from Narathiwat’s Rangae district rushed to the scene on Tuesday night, but none could earn the trust of the villagers who took the two into custody.

The officials were not able to negotiate because the people they spoke to did not represent the hostage-takers.

At 3am yesterday, the villagers demanded to talk with the highest-ranking officials in the province, and the district officials gave in.

Narathiwat Governor Pracha Therat arrived at the village at about 7am, together with former Narathiwat MP Najmuddin Umar.

The two were unable to contact the correct people in the village as the village head and members of the tambon administration said they neither represented the villagers nor made any decisions over the fate of the two marines.

Another negotiating team arrived at the village two hours later, led by Deputy Fourth Army Commander Pichet Wisaichorn.

He and Najmuddin were allowed to go into the village and were able to see the two marines in the distance.

One of the villagers then raised the demand to have only foreign journalists report on the drama in exchange for the lives of the marines. Officials rushed a helicopter to fly Malaysian journalists from Sungai Kolok to the village.

Members of the Thai military telephoned many Malaysian journalists directly, by-passing both their Malaysian counterparts and the reporters’ bosses in Kuala Lumpur. It was believed the foreign journalists were the only of hope of saving the marines.

It was unclear who the main government negotiator was yesterday. One in the team called himself Peace Ambassador Suriya Tawanchai. He told reporters his men were divided into two groups, one tagged along with Pichet and the other met families of the victims of Tuesday’s shooting incident.

“By noon, we thought everything should be fine so we moved out for lunch. But as we returned an hour later, we found the situation had dramatically changed,” Suriya said.

He gave no clear assessment of why the situation had deteriorated.

Fourth Army Region Commander Kwanchart Klaharn said he had a “second plan”, to storm the village to free the hostages, but it was too late.

[seonai]

okay but we have to keep this in perspective. It is not a random Muslim attack on Thai soldiers. What do you guys/gals think?

[LivinLOS]

I for one think that the story of 6 non uniformed marines fully armed with assault rifles chasing unspecified insurgent (who were the real problem not us) stinks to high heaven..

The request for non Thai media is telling..

All that said they (southern population) didnt control the situation enough to keep the 2 marines alive and unharmed.. Thier cause would be a lot better off if they had.

[khall64au]

"An eye for an eye".... It's like a dog chasing it's tail!!!

[The_Moog]

Negotiators having lunch when incident turned bad

No reason not to have a spot of tiffin when the natives get fractious. What What.

[Nam Kao]

Are falangs next?

So Pieceful.....

[happymanme]

Nan Kao what do you mean next we are always on the list,just dont go out into the woods where the bears are ................

[papaya9]

######ing animals... They are nothing but squatters there.

[khall64au]

######ing animals...  They are nothing but squatters there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you know the history- wise one?

[jrincon17]

Are falangs next?

  So Pieceful.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BANGKOK (AFP) - Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has insisted the entire country is under government control, one day after two soldiers taken hostage were beaten to death by muslim villagers.

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"There is no liberated zone. Every square inch of Thailand must be under Thai constitution," he told a press conference.

On Wednesday, two Thai marines were beaten and stabbed to death, after an 18-hour hostage ordeal that pitted 2,000 Muslim villagers against the military in violence-wracked southern Narathiwat province.

Residents from Tanyong Limo sealed off the road to their village, calling for government soldiers deployed in the area to leave.

The bounded, gagged and blindfolded bodies of the marines were retrieved mid-afternoon Wednesday, but Thaksin said they may have already been dead for hours.

"The killers are inhumane. The soldiers were probably killed before dawn, because their bodies were already cold," he said.

The premier said officials had found clues to the killers' identities, based on television footage and their own investigations.

He urged residents in the Muslim-majority south to cooperate with authorities, promising they would be protected.

Thaksin blamed local authorities in the south for agreeing to the villagers's demand to speak to Malaysian journalists.

"I will ask local authorities why they decided to yield to the hostage-takers' demands. They should not get anything. I must say that there is no war without casualties, but I will try to limit the losses," he said.

The killings came amid escalating tensions over the southern unrest, blamed in part on Islamic separatists but also on organized crime and black marketeers.

At least 940 people have been killed in the Muslim-majority south along the Malaysian border since deadly unrest broke out in January 2004.

[sriracha john]

######ing animals...  They are nothing but squatters there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Villagers are squatters in their own village???

hmmm.... somethings amiss with your statement.

[sriracha john]

With the highest respect I add:

"Representing Their Majesties the King and Queen, HRH Princess Maha Chakri Sirindhorn yesterday presided over the bathing rites for the two marines who were brutally murdered in a hostage situation in Narathiwat’s Ban Tanyonglimo on Wednesday. In the highest honour for those killed in action, the Princess poured anointed water over the corpses of Sub-Lieutenant Winai Nagabutr and Petty Officer Kamthorn Thong-iad at Wat Kokkian in Narathiwat."

[richard10365]

Pretend there insn't a problem in the Thai South. Then you hear the story of the how mothers of one village stopped police and other soldiers from helping their comrades while their village was torturing and killing these two.

Where were their husbands? Would you let your wife take your children out and form a block-aid against armed soldiers and police known for their brutality? The husbands had to be in on this too.

In most normal countries, would this make the mothers (and husbands) accessory to murder?

IMHO, I would arrest the mothers and put the children in protective custody. The mothers are no better than terrorist.

They destroyed all chances for peace. They just made all soldiers in Thailand unsympathetic to their cause.

If they thought the violence was bad before, it will probably get worse now.

Som nam na.

[sriracha john]

I don't think the intent of the entire village was to kill the 2 soldiers, (in fact the authorities, by other reports, are searching for 3 identified culprits). In a mob-type mentality, it's difficult to control an entire mob. What led 500 everyday, normal people (the villagers) to take this drastic action of blocking all roads and bridges??? That has been the bizarre twist in this latest development. Clearly they had had enough of the violence... and the tea shop killings was the last straw.

But as novices in violence... I can see that they clearly didn't understand the workings of a mob mentality and how difficult it is to control all members.

Local residents reflect on a tragic incident

Published on September 23, 2005

Residents of this remote Muslim village in the deep South yesterday were trying to come to terms with their entire community being implicated in the murders of two marines the day before.

Villagers interviewed by The Nation said they regretted that the tragic incident had taken place and urged better understanding between government officials and Tanyonglimo residents, who also see themselves as victims of the ongoing violence.

It did not occur to them that the situation would get out of hand and lead to the marines, who had been taken hostage, being killed.

While none of the residents said they were involved in obstructing the work of the investigating officers, they regretted that their village had been implicated by much of society following the stand-off between residents and officials who were trying to secure the release of the marines.

The two soldiers were taken hostage on Tuesday night immediately after gunmen drove up to the village teashop and sprayed it with bullets, killing two and injuring four.

The marines, who had reportedly stopped to investigate the shooting, were taken hostage by villagers, who later demanded that the government set up a committee to investigate the shooting and permit foreign media – preferably the Malaysian press – to enter the village and document the incident.

But before their demand could be met, the two marines were beaten to death.

Mathima, a resident of the village, said a significant number of villagers wanted to see the killers tracked down.

Lee, the owner of the teashop, said the deaths of the two marines was tragic and that the incident had shocked the community.

Both women said many villagers were willing to work with officials to help get to the bottom of the teashop shooting and murder of the marines, and they urged understanding from all sides.

Former Narathiwat MP Najmuddin Umar had accompanied Fourth Army deputy chief Maj-General Pichet Wisaichorn to the village to negotiate the hostages’ release.

He said the mistrust between villagers and officials was so great that many locals saw the authorities as their enemy.

But he said many villagers felt bad about the marines being killed and had expressed a willingness to work with government investigators.

Gothom Araya, a member of the National Reconciliation Commission, said the villagers owed the country an apology for taking part in obstructing justice amid attempts by authorities to secure the release of the marines.

[taxexile]

it was reported on the news this morning (from a preliminary report by pornthip , the forensic pathologist) that the two soldiers were tortured with boiling liquids and knives before they died.

[richard10365]

The news I saw broke out first on The Nation...

followups are coming in quickly now from variety of sources... this one is BBC (edit repeating portions):

Women from the village helped seal off the roads

Thailand villagers seize soldiers 

Two soldiers are being held bound and gagged in Thailand's troubled south, as hundreds of villagers prevent security forces from retrieving them.

The men were seized after a drive-by shooting in the village of Tanyong Limo, which left one person dead.

Villagers took the two soldiers, who were not in uniform, and accused them of being involved in the shooting.

Thai authorities said the two were in fact chasing the suspected militants who carried out the attack.

According to the governor of Narathiwat province, Pracha Terat, the situation in Tanyong Limo remained tense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looking at the picture, parents kept their children out of school so they can teach their children to kill. Then they say they had nothing to do with the killing. They stopped police from entering the mosque. They are guilty of murder. Now their chidlren have blood on their hands.

Mobs are made up of men and women usually. This was an organized group. Where were their men during this event. Probably inside the mosque torturing the Marines.

The article quotes women saying many in the village will work to help find the killers. If this was true, I think they would have them already.

They are using the peace process as an excuse to get away with murder. After they commit a murder, they ask all to understand and be patient. We are suffering they say. Then the government backs off.

I think the patients of the people of Thailand is running thin. The behavior of the villagers only made things worse.

[sriracha john]

The news I saw broke out first on The Nation...

followups are coming in quickly now from variety of sources... this one is BBC (edit repeating portions):

Women from the village helped seal off the roads

Thailand villagers seize soldiers 

Two soldiers are being held bound and gagged in Thailand's troubled south, as hundreds of villagers prevent security forces from retrieving them.

The men were seized after a drive-by shooting in the village of Tanyong Limo, which left one person dead.

Villagers took the two soldiers, who were not in uniform, and accused them of being involved in the shooting.

Thai authorities said the two were in fact chasing the suspected militants who carried out the attack.

According to the governor of Narathiwat province, Pracha Terat, the situation in Tanyong Limo remained tense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looking at the picture, parents kept their children out of school so they can teach their children to kill. Then they say they had nothing to do with the killing. They stopped police from entering the mosque. They are guilty of murder. Now their chidlren have blood on their hands.

Technically speaking, I see only 1 child in the photo and a likely to young to be in school.

However, later on in the events of the day, children were indeed there. I don't think they are teaching them anything that they haven't already seen for themselves in the last 2 years that violence has spiralled out of control. Children have been witnessing death with their own eyes in that small area on a daily basis, something outsiders who have had not similar experiences and understandably are not able to relate to it or who come up with answers that are based on a general misconceptions regarding the overall situation.

The responsibility for this worsening condition rests at the feet of the PM. His mismanagement of the situation from the start and continuing until the present is what is at fault.

Attrocities have occured and have been caused by both sides. The first time I heard of the incident involving hundreds areound a mosque, I thought of Tak Bai and the other earlier mosque slayings. The potential disaster was there with the thousands of troops and hundreds of people for a massacre. It would be reasonable to believe that played a role yesterday. Easy to imagine an extremist hothead to incite other men with "kill them before they kill us" chanting... In hostage situations, it's these types that incite everything up and mob mentality takes hold and next thing you know 2 sailors are dead.

This is NOT entirely over any one issue, it involves many. It is convienent for all involved, except the Muslims obviously, to blame it and paint it as a religious Muslim issue and get everyone's focus there exclusively.

Mobs are made up of men and women usually. This was an organized group. Where were their men during this event. Probably inside the mosque torturing the Marines.

Thai news have said almost all males fled the entire village and ran into the country-side...Thus only a few men were left around the hostages, and it would seem the three identified suspects were among them.

The article quotes women saying many in the village will work to help find the killers. If this was true, I think they would have them already.

They are using the peace process as an excuse to get away with murder. After they commit a murder, they ask all to understand and be patient. We are suffering they say. Then the government backs off.

I think the patients of the people of Thailand is running thin. The behavior of the villagers only made things worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no real peace process now. Anand and his group who given powers to negotiate and mediate, but they have been shut down by the PM. They voice quite anti-government policies and have had their power stripped.

The people of Thailand AND the deep south are Thai people have all run out of patience leading to events like yesterday. Hold the PM responsible.

[richard10365]

There is only one boy in the photo. There does appear to be girls there as well.

I don't agree about the PM being responsible unless there was peace in the region before he was elected PM.

I am angry hearing of the killing of marines. I find it difficult to feel pity for the people in the south of Thailand.

I hope for peace, but I don't think it will happen now.

[DJ Moore]

A disturbing story just put out. A drastic departure from the "normal" violence occuring in the Deep South on a daily basis.

===================================================

Muslims are at war with the rest of the non Muslim world. The sooner that's understand the better. They are unforgiving, brutal beats, who lie, kill, and don't keep there word.

When they are in a Buddhist or Christian country, it's not our job to understand them. They much understand us.............. DJM

[camerata]

This incident is remarkably similar to one that happened in Northern Ireland in Thatcher's day. A couple of undercover soldiers (probably SAS) took a wrong turn in Belfast and their car got stuck in a funeral procession. The crowd quickly sussed out who they were and (even though they were armed) dragged them out of the car. Shortly afterwards, the provos turned up and shot them both in the head.

But after that incident we didn't have the prime minister and troops publicly swearing vengeance as we now do in Thailand.