Developing Hostage Crisis Story?

[richard10365]

This talk of 'terrorists' I believe is overblown. .

Seonai

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think its over blown. They need to decide what side of the fence they want to be on. They are either for the terrorist or the Thai government.

When the marines died, they chose to be terrorist.

Now they have to accept the consequences of their actions.

I think the mothers should get arrested for blocking the police. They need to stand in front of a judge and tell him why they think their actions had nothing to do with the death of the two marines.

[Nam Kao]

>>>>This talk of 'terrorists' I believe is overblown. These are mostly normal people trying to save their lifestyle.

SO its OK to massacre innocents to save your "lifestyle".

You liberals have really lost it

[seonai]

guys I don't mean to be really controversial, I just mean that some of the Muslims down there are not that way inclined normally, they are not all bad people. Sure that was really horrible about the two soldiers. but I am just trying to show a fair side of fear and I may well be wrong. Do you remember when hundreds of Muslims were shot last year because the Gov said they might have been influenced by drugs? And the next one was when 70 or more Muslims died in police vans, suffocated, under arrest?

I am just trying to imagine if I was there with my son and I felt that the GOV were trying to wipe us out.... maybe I would even do the same... out of fear. You know? Imagine if you are sitting down in the south and no one is telling you the truth?

I don't mean I advocate the violence, absolutely not.

I am only trying to imagine what these people are thinking.

Seonai

[opothai]

senoi

you say you live in a village that is 99.9% muslim

i admire you trying to put forward the view from down south and sure if you are attacked defend yourself,

but surely killing monks and teachers and killing innocent people is more than is neccessary to protect yourselves.

this is also world wide, in europe why do they do this, they are not victimised.

i'm afraid the muslim being victimised is an overplayed card and is not believed by any country let alone thailand.

[WhiteShiva]

guys I don't mean to be really controversial, I just mean that some of the Muslims down there are not that way inclined normally, they are not all bad people. Sure that was really horrible about the two soldiers. but I am just trying to show a fair side of fear and I may well be wrong. Do you remember when hundreds of Muslims were shot last year because the Gov said they might have been influenced by drugs? And the next one was when 70 or more Muslims died in police vans, suffocated, under arrest?

I am just trying to imagine if I was there with my son and I felt that the GOV were trying to wipe us out.... maybe I would even do the same... out of fear. You know? Imagine if you are sitting down in the south and no one is telling you the truth?

I don't mean I advocate the violence, absolutely not.

I am only trying to imagine what these people are thinking.

Seonai

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on Seonai. It is next to impossible to get a clear picture of what is going on in the south from the media. There are bad elements on both sides in this conflict, but the majority of the people in the sounth (as anywhere else) just want to get on with their lives, without the threat of violence from either side.

I am not even convinced the majority of the atrocities allergedly carried out by muslim seperatists actually are. There are too many people in high positions who benefit from the present situation.

[taxexile]

There are too many people in high positions who benefit from the present situation.

that also is more than likely.

i was told about rumours that all the arms (and a lot more ) that were supposedly/allegedly/possibly/definately/maybe stolen by insurgents one night , were supposedly/allegedly/possibly/definately/maybe sold to a foriegn country (bangladesh) by army big cheeses.

its in the interests of the army to keep this show running , lots of funding from the government to skim from etc.

but because of a press that is not allowed to investigate and report , and no foriegn reporters there , its impossible to get an accurate picture of what is happening.

but i feel that the muslim fight is led by imported hardline troublemakers under the direction of far more sinister organisations.

one can only feel sorry for the man and woman on the street trying to earn to support his family.

its always the innocents.......etc.etc.etc.

[SiamOne]

I remember last year sometime when Thaksin was "visiting" the South. This was during one of the calmer periods, yet he didn't even have the guts to stay there. He stayed in Had Yai.

Most of my Thai family is in Pattani, a real hot spot right now. It's hard to fathom the depth of the situation unless you've gone and stayed there. People who live in that area often have much different opinions than those on this forum as they see the situation for what it really is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so what are those different opinions? how do they see the situation - educate us on the other side of the coin.

Most posters have information received second hand, from the media etc. Tell us more.

[seonai]

Well the army has moved in now, as expected, to "adjust their (the Muslims) way of thinking!!!! Come on Chairman Mao.........

See Yahoo, Asia News, Singapore

"Dozens of militants, backers surrender in Thai south: army..."

[seonai]

Here it is...

Dozens of Muslim suspected separatist militants and their sympathisers based in Thailand's restive southern provinces surrendered to Thai authorities, a senior military official said.

All 62 of the men are from Narathiwat province, one of three provinces which have received most of the near-daily attacks that have claimed almost 1,000 lives since January 2004.

"Many of them used to be militant sympathisers or have a record of joining militant groups, and one was wanted over the killing of a janitor," Lieutenant General Kwanchart Klaharn, southern army commander, told reporters Monday.

Kwanchart said the authorities will record the men's details before allowing them to return to their villages before the Muslim holy month of Ramadan which begins on October 4.

"After the Ramadan month we will recall them to join an intensive training course to adjust their attitude," Kwanchart said.

The week-long course is designed to instil patriotism in students, convince them to renounce violence, and help develop Thailand by cooperating with authorities, Thai authorities have said.

A controversial emergency decree in force since July covering the provinces bordering Malaysia contains measures including allowing detention without charge for up to 30 days and renders authorities immune from prosecution.

Southernmost police commander Lieutenant General Adul Seangsingkaoe said authorities had arrested a total of four suspects in connection with the killings last week of two navy officers in a Muslim village.

Authorities will also seek court approval for arrest warrants for four other suspects, bringing to 22 people sought over the officers' deaths in Narathiwat's Tanyong Limo village and obstructing authorities, Adul said.

Their deaths shocked the country and highlighted the growing chasm between Muslim southerners and the government.

More than 950 people have been killed in near daily shootings, bombing and arson attacks that authorities blame on a complex web of Islamic separatists, organized crime and local corruption.

In the latest violence, a Muslim man was shot dead and another was critically wounded after an attack on a village teashop in Thailand's restive southern provinces bordering Malaysia, police said.

Sermsak Bianarware, 54, was shot three times late on Sunday night by suspected militants and died instantly in Tonmaisoong village in Narathiwat province, police said Monday.

Sermsak's fellow customer, Dueramae Sulong, 62, was wounded and hospitalised in nearby Sungai Kolok district hospital, police said.

Security forces will on Monday morning move into Tonmaisoong to investigate the attack as it was similar to a teashop shooting last week in Narathiwat's Tanyong Limo village, in which two men were killed and three others wounded.

[Jai Dee]

TWO ADDITIONAL SUSPECTS APPREHENDED

The Fourth Regional Commander and the Director of the Security and Peacekeeping Task Force in the three southernmost provinces, Lieutenant General KHWANCHAT KLAHARN (ขวัญชาติ กล้าหาญ), the Commander of the Ninth Regional Police, Police Lieutenant General ADUL SANGSINGKAEW (อดุลย์ แสงสิงแก้ว), and NARATHIWAT Provincial Governor PRACHA TAERAT (ประชา เตรัตน์), conducted a press release at the NARATHIWAT City Hall today.

The information was related with the progress made in the case of the two murdered marines at the Thon Yhang Limoa (ตันหยงลิมอ) Village. Latest reports indicated that authorities have apprehended two more suspects from a total list of eighteen. They included Mr. KREEYA THUANBOOLA and Mr. MAGHOAZENG ALAWAEGOA (มะกอเซ็ง อาละแวกอ). The number of total suspects in police custody has now been raised to four.

According to the evidences, including eyewitnesses and photographs, police said arrest warrants can be issued to the four additional suspects.

Source: thaisnews.com ประจำวันจันทร์ที่ 26 กันยายน 2548

Edited September 26, 2005 by Jai Dee

[WhiteShiva]

There are too many people in high positions who benefit from the present situation.

that also is more than likely.

i was told about rumours that all the arms (and a lot more ) that were supposedly/allegedly/possibly/definately/maybe stolen by insurgents one night , were supposedly/allegedly/possibly/definately/maybe sold to a foriegn country (bangladesh) by army big cheeses.

its in the interests of the army to keep this show running , lots of funding from the government to skim from etc.

but because of a press that is not allowed to investigate and report , and no foriegn reporters there , its impossible to get an accurate picture of what is happening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree - the very fact that the media is kept away, implies to me that the authorities have something to hide.

but i feel that the muslim fight is led by imported hardline troublemakers under the direction of far more sinister organisations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If not yet, it is just a matter of time. I fear that the incompetent way in which this issue is being handled will have consequences we may have to live with for a long time.

One can't really blame the locals for being disillusioned with the government. Compare the current tragedy of the murder of the two marines (regardless of whether they were guilty of the drive-by shooting or not) with the Tak Bai incident. Taksin calls the killers of the marines "wild animals" and promises "revenge", but at the same time says that he will not take responsibility for any "mistakes" made by the government - in other words he yields absolute power, but does not expect to be held accountable for abuses. - Unbelievable. In the Tak Bai incident, the officer in charge was "moved to an inactive position", and then later promoted.

So much for winning the heart and minds of the people in the south....

Edited September 27, 2005 by WhiteShiva

[sriracha john]

All very valid points, WhiteShiva...

and sadly... it is precisely the government's position that provides credence to the extremists, whom I don't believe truly represent the vast majority in the South, such as this very recent report reveals:

Associated Press

JAKARTA, Indonesia A veteran leader of Thailand's insurgency has issued a warning: militants from Indonesia and Arab nations might join the fight for a separate homeland if the Thai government continues a crackdown that's provoking a new generation of Muslim fighters.

In his first interview with a news organization, Lukman B. Lima told The Associated Press that violence could spread from Thailand's southern provinces to the capital unless the government accepts an offer to negotiate an end to the conflict.

Although he suggested peace talks, Lukman lashed out at the government of Thaksin Shinawatra, likening the prime minister to Stalin and Hitler.

The PULO works "hand-in-hand" with groups involved in the fighting, Lukman said, with his organization focused on the political arena although it also has fighters on the ground. It's unknown, however, to what extent his comments reflect the views of the shadowy insurgent groups or how much influence he and PULO exert over rebel military operations.

Lukman is vice president and acting head of the Pattani United Liberation Organization, or PULO, one of several groups involved in the century-old struggle to gain independence for the predominantly Muslim far south of Thailand.

Lukman offered negotiations with the Thai government on condition that it removes all the more than 20,000 troops from the south; revokes tough emergency measures aimed at the insurgency _ thought to be about 2,000 fighters strong; stops killing innocent people; and frees the PULO's imprisoned president and military chief.

Prime Minister Thaksin recently set up a reconciliation council, comprising military officers, academics, Muslim community leaders, and other concerned parties, to explore peaceful solutions to the conflict. But he's been criticized at home and abroad for trying to resolve the problem with military force. In two separate incidents last year, nearly 200 Muslims died when security forces gunned down militants, protesters and bystanders and put some into army trucks, where they suffocated.

Lukman blamed Thaksin for the surge in violence, saying previous governments were more flexible in dealing with Muslim aspirations. A one-time police officer, Thaksin recently replaced martial law in the south with an emergency act which critics describe as a "license to kill" because of the powers and immunity it affords security officials.

Lukman spoke Monday on condition that the interview not be released until he left Indonesia on Friday. An exile in Sweden, Lukman didn't say why he wanted the delay. He's not a wanted man in Indonesia or Thailand, although as an avowed separatist he could become a government target.

[thaibebop]

I asked this question in another thread, but I think I might get a good answer here so....

From what I have learned from my Thai-in-laws the Thai people would show no mercy to the Muslims in the south if the bombing reached Bangkok. The Thai people would demand of whoever was leading the country at that time to enforce a kill 'em all policy in the south.

Is this a common feeling for Thais?

[Nam Kao]

>>>Dozens of Muslim suspected separatist militants and their sympathisers based in Thailand's restive southern provinces surrendered to Thai authorities, a senior military official said.

They are probably room temperature by now

[sriracha john]

I asked this question in another thread, but I think I might get a good answer here so....

From what I have learned from my Thai-in-laws the Thai people would show no mercy to the Muslims in the south if the bombing reached Bangkok. The Thai people would demand of whoever was leading the country at that time to enforce a kill 'em all policy in the south.

Is this a common feeling for Thais?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What my Thai relations worry most about is foreign intervention in the form of UN multi-national troops taking over the situation. They abhore the violence on both sides and realize that both sides have committed atrocities... but they also feel that further escalation will result in outside intervention.

Being strongly nationalistic, this is the worst scenario in their eyes.

They are very practical and are trying to remain calm in their thinking by not

over-reacting with even more violence and blood-letting. They realize taking things up a notch is not any real solution.

[thaibebop]

I asked this question in another thread, but I think I might get a good answer here so....

From what I have learned from my Thai-in-laws the Thai people would show no mercy to the Muslims in the south if the bombing reached Bangkok. The Thai people would demand of whoever was leading the country at that time to enforce a kill 'em all policy in the south.

Is this a common feeling for Thais?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What my Thai relations worry most about is foreign intervention in the form of UN multi-national troops taking over the situation. They abhore the violence on both sides and realize that both sides have committed atrocities... but they also feel that further escalation will result in outside intervention.

Being strongly nationalistic, this is the worst scenario in their eyes.

They are very practical and are trying to remain calm in their thinking by not

over-reacting with even more violence and blood-letting. They realize taking things up a notch is not any real solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is good to hear. My Thai relations hate the violence and wish something good be done to end, but I think they would rather see them all dead before they allowed the UN to take over. Most of the Thais I have talked to view the Muslims as traitors, so if they won't work with the gov to end the violence then f' 'em. One guy I know fought against them, what 10, 15, years ago. He has got a bullet wound in his arm. Of course he doesn't understand why the gov isn't killing them left and right.

[sriracha john]

I asked this question in another thread, but I think I might get a good answer here so....

From what I have learned from my Thai-in-laws the Thai people would show no mercy to the Muslims in the south if the bombing reached Bangkok. The Thai people would demand of whoever was leading the country at that time to enforce a kill 'em all policy in the south.

Is this a common feeling for Thais?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What my Thai relations worry most about is foreign intervention in the form of UN multi-national troops taking over the situation. They abhore the violence on both sides and realize that both sides have committed atrocities... but they also feel that further escalation will result in outside intervention.

Being strongly nationalistic, this is the worst scenario in their eyes.

They are very practical and are trying to remain calm in their thinking by not

over-reacting with even more violence and blood-letting. They realize taking things up a notch is not any real solution.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is good to hear. My Thai relations hate the violence and wish something good be done to end, but I think they would rather see them all dead before they allowed the UN to take over. Most of the Thais I have talked to view the Muslims as traitors, so if they won't work with the gov to end the violence then f' 'em. One guy I know fought against them, what 10, 15, years ago. He has got a bullet wound in his arm. Of course he doesn't understand why the gov isn't killing them left and right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As with all things in Thailand, experiences may vary.

I can empathize with the man who was shot in combatting them, but the Thais I know don't have such blood-spilling hatred of Muslims.

They are viewed as fellow Thais by them.

Their shared loyalty to the Thai Royal Family has been a well-respected combined experience.

They feel sorry their government has treated them poorly for a long time which has limited the opportunities in the South. They are shocked by the violence, but are also acutely aware that it is not stemming from a widely held segment of Southerners but the compartively few extremists.

They all held such hope for Dr. Anand and his NRC... but the commission has been stifled and practically shut down by the government. It's vocal members words are falling on deaf government ears.