Thai Military Draft A Lottery Many Hope To Lose

[webfact]

Thai military draft a lottery many hope to lose - Feature

by Janesara Fugal

BANGKOK, April 15, 2011 (AFP) - Anond Naknava nervously reached into the box and pulled out a red ticket that sealed his fate: up to two years of military service. For some young men in Thailand, conscription is literally a lottery.

"It just wasn't my day. Everything went wrong. They mixed up my name. I had to go change it -- I knew it was going to be me," said the 21-year-old college student, who must now take a break from his studies to join the navy.

Each April, around the time of Buddhist New Year, Thailand's armed forces launch a search for healthy men aged between 21 and 30 years old.

This year the military needs almost 100,000 new recruits. Many of the places are filled by volunteers. The rest are drafted through a lottery that many hope to lose.

By law all Thai men who do not volunteer for military service must attend the conscription lottery at least once after they turn 21.

"It's the hardship. I'm afraid of the tough life," said Chakkrit Jitma, one of hundreds of potential recruits who turned up on a recent hot summer day at a school in Bangkok.

For parents too, there was a nervous wait to see whether their sons would be enlisted. Relatives and friends cheered when a potential recruit picked a black card, avoiding military service.

"I couldn't sleep and I prayed to Allah so that he wouldn't be selected," said one mother, Amornrat Sombut.

Not everyone is eligible -- recruits must be physically fit, at least 1.60 meters (5 feet 3 inches) tall and with a chest size of 76 centimeters or more.

"I do a rough check on their limbs to see if they're bent or crooked, if they stand up straight or not, if they're disabled or got anything missing or anything too short or too long," said army officer Thongkham Maleesi.

Also spared from serving their country are transgender 'katoeys', or ladyboys, such as Kridsada Kumsombat.

"There are so many people and most of them are men. I'm afraid they might make fun of me," Kridsada said.

Previously transsexuals were exempted on the grounds of a "psychological abnormality", but that has now been replaced by a "misshapen chest".

"If they said I'm mentally ill it doesn't look good on my record. But this way it's ok. I feel like we have more rights because in the past ladyboys had to be soldiers but now that's changed," Kridsada said.

"I'm so relieved and I really want to go home now!"

The worst case scenario is a posting in Thailand's deep south, where an insurgency waged by suspected Islamic militants has left more than 4,500 people dead over the past seven years. Military personnel are a particular target.

"I don't want to be a soldier. I'm afraid of being sent to the south," said another potential recruit, Chanasorn Sodpakwan.

Thai troops were also sent out onto the streets of Bangkok a year ago to crack down on mass opposition protests. More than 90 people died, mostly civilians, in a series of clashes between soldiers and demonstrators.

Instead of letting fate decide their future, many worried parents and young men apparently attempt to dodge the draft. Stories of bribes are common, although authorities insist they are clamping down.

"We received some reports of corruption, and now we are investigating them," said Lieutenant Colonel Norapon Jitpanya, head of the military registrar department.

A national football player caused a stir earlier this month after writing on the social networking website Facebook that he had paid 30,000 baht (1,000 dollars) to avoid military service. He later apologised and said he was joking.

Anybody caught trying to escape conscription faces three years in prison, followed by a stint in the army, Norapon said.

At the school in Bangkok, the crowd cheered as Anond pulled out the last red card, his face turning pale as officers led him away to sign up for military service.

He admitted he did not want to be a soldier, but tried to look on the bright side.

"Now I'm chosen, I'll get a salary and I won't be any trouble to my parents," he said. "If others can do it then I can do it too!"

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-04-15

[JusMe]

At the same time, there are others who welcome the draft.

I remember a number of years ago in a small village during the draft, one young man who had travelled from Bangkok for it ("home" village). He actually wanted to volunteer, but knew his mother was seriously against it, so he was actually hoping for a draft into the airforce, where he could get the education and training he actually wanted.

One of the few who actually celebrated when he had to "sadly" phone his mother in Bangkok to tell her that he'd drawn a red card and was now in the airforce!

[REM]

Also spared from serving their country are transgender 'katoeys', or ladyboys.......Previously transsexuals were exempted on the grounds of a "psychological abnormality", but that has now been replaced by a "misshapen chest".

I guess that's a good move on Thailand's part. I mean, what army on earth would be intimidated by an army of katoeys running at them with guns bigger than them, makeup, high pitched screaming voices, and boobs bouncing all over. The only tactical advantage that could serve would be to make the other army laugh so hard, the Thai army could mount a surprise attack!!!

Edited April 15, 2011 by REM

[OldeBellPedr]

If they paid a decent salary, they'd surely get the recruits they need.

I recently lost a really good assistant chef who drew out the wrong ball in a supplemementary lottery in September, because they didn't have enough recruits from the first trawl.

On the other hand there are many kids for whom a spell in the Army is either a welcome diversion from a monotonous life or welcome for their paretns if they are tearaways.

The other question that could be asked is why do they need so many conscripts? - could some of them be doing work serving high powered generals in their private capacity rather than defending Thailand. One wonders!

[Pib]

If they paid a decent salary, they'd surely get the recruits they need.

I recently lost a really good assistant chef who drew out the wrong ball in a supplemementary lottery in September, because they didn't have enough recruits from the first trawl.

On the other hand there are many kids for whom a spell in the Army is either a welcome diversion from a monotonous life or welcome for their paretns if they are tearaways.

The other question that could be asked is why do they need so many conscripts? - could some of them be doing work serving high powered generals in their private capacity rather than defending Thailand. One wonders!

Expect its the very low pay, hard work, and barracks life. I read on various posts a conscript gets around 2000 baht/month, which is goes to around 4000 baht/month upon completing graduation. Now if an officer in the Thai military that comes with a "lot of prestige" and much better pay/benefits. I have an in-law who is Navy Commander and he says officers do just fine and me knowing him for many years I can see from his lifestyle and his support of the his family that he does indeed do just fine. But if enlisted, pay is a lot less with a much lower variety of "good jobs." Many of the technical type jobs which results in a lot of training and civilian life job opportunities are done by officers, where as, in western military it usually the enlisted doing the technical jobs and the officers in leadership roles.

[pampal]

Also spared from serving their country are transgender 'katoeys', or ladyboys.......Previously transsexuals were exempted on the grounds of a "psychological abnormality", but that has now been replaced by a "misshapen chest".

I guess that's a good move on Thailand's part. I mean, what army on earth would be intimidated by an army of katoeys running at them with guns bigger than them, makeup, high pitched screaming voices, and boobs bouncing all over. The only tactical advantage that could serve would be to make the other army laugh so hard, the Thai army could mount a surprise attack!!!

The Katoeys on lower Suk are pretty scary and I have seen quite a few people running for their lives, when angering them.

[londonthai]

"I do a rough check on their limbs to see if they're bent or crooked, if they stand up straight or not, if they're disabled or got anything missing or anything too short or too long," said army officer Thongkham Maleesi."

a medical check up should be done by doctors and not an army officer. Mentally ill soldier is a danger to himself and others. I know for fact, that they do become conscripts.

ladyboys are informally females, just it's difficult/impossible for them to change their gender in the official records. Only men serve in thai army, so they are righly excluded.

[Totster]

A national football player caused a stir earlier this month after writing on the social networking website Facebook that he had paid 30,000 baht (1,000 dollars) to avoid military service. He later apologised and said he was joking.

:lol:

totster

[ginjag]

Also spared from serving their country are transgender 'katoeys', or ladyboys.......Previously transsexuals were exempted on the grounds of a "psychological abnormality", but that has now been replaced by a "misshapen chest".

I guess that's a good move on Thailand's part. I mean, what army on earth would be intimidated by an army of katoeys running at them with guns bigger than them, makeup, high pitched screaming voices, and boobs bouncing all over. The only tactical advantage that could serve would be to make the other army laugh so hard, the Thai army could mount a surprise attack!!!

I havent seen women screaming -boobs bouncing- what they do in Pattaya isn't what they would do in the army.

A hard working Thai man working nights in a local market=15k a month, and evenings in a Karaoke at 10k a month, loses all that business, and is forced to go in. When your doing well in business you should be exempt.

The going rate in Buriram area to bribe is 30,000 bht, this is true I know 2 young people that paid. It all stinks-money gets you off in LOS

[Greyman]

A good idea is to take all the Technical College students, who like to have gang wars with other Colleges, and suspend their training, so they can direct all their aggression in a controlled setting. Might turn out find with the correct discipline.

It has worked in the past in other countries.

[wolf5370]

I was talking to a few lads here end of last year. They were college kids, so not too keen on it. One of them said in his village the lottery was just for show and there were no red cards as so many youngsters wanted to sign up! He siad the pay is about 8k a month (someone said 2k earlier - no idea which is correct, but I think 2k would be too low - maybe 8k for volunteers and less for lottery "winners"? No idea). They said that a lot of youngsters in the village could not afford to go to school beyond Matiom 5 or 6 and certainly not college - and has prospects of rice planting for 80baht a day. To some of these guys millitary is a good chance in life for them. The only draw back is being confined to barracks for the first 6 months training (i.e. no leave).

Shame about the Katoeys - I was chatting wth my Thai language teacher last year and she was asking if we were going to the draw (we weren't) - she said its great fun as they make everyoine strip down to the waist and they all get a laugh at the katoeys - she was Thai of course, so it seems they will kill another national sport!

Some countries still have National Service (Italy for example) - but Thailand's population is too large for that, so they limit it with a lottery - if anything, its allowing some to escape compulsory service. Personally, I wish Britain still had it - it might help to combat the PC brigade's destruction of our youth.

[thequietman]

"I do a rough check on their limbs to see if they're bent or crooked, if they stand up straight or not, if they're disabled or got anything missing or anything too short or too long," said army officer Thongkham Maleesi."

a medical check up should be done by doctors and not an army officer. Mentally ill soldier is a danger to himself and others. I know for fact, that they do become conscripts.

ladyboys are informally females, just it's difficult/impossible for them to change their gender in the official records. Only men serve in thai army, so they are righly excluded.

bit of a loop hole there then. any young man who doesnt want to join just turns up in a dress with some lip stick and hes excluded.

a bit embarrassing to do i know but it beats going down south to maybe get killed or maimed.

[AZBill]

A real patriotic bunch! Hope they never need to fight a real war or they are in big trouble if this is the fiber of the typical Thai male! I'm starting to understand why there are so many lady boys! It's their ticket out of service..

[endure]

There are people who think that 'fighting a real war' (also known as killing people) isn't the best way to spend your life.

[geronimo]

A national football player caused a stir earlier this month after writing on the social networking website Facebook that he had paid 30,000 baht (1,000 dollars) to avoid military service. He later apologised and said he was joking.

:lol:

totster

I have heard that 30k is the going rate for avoiding the draft!

[JAG]

My Stepson is 17, so the draft lottery is on the horizon. I wouldn't mind him serving if I could be sure that the training was good and the NCOs and Officers were capable and professional. He is a robust sensible lad and I don't think it would harm him.

However, I suspect that is not the case; from what I have seen (as a casual observer) and from what I read and hear of the military, I suspect it will involve a lot of bullshit and hanging around barracks, whilst the officers play politics in their messes.

[cdnvic]

There are people who think that 'fighting a real war' (also known as killing people) isn't the best way to spend your life.

Sometimes you don't have a choice, and when attacked, solid training beats wishful thinking every time.

[whybother]

A real patriotic bunch! Hope they never need to fight a real war or they are in big trouble if this is the fiber of the typical Thai male! I'm starting to understand why there are so many lady boys! It's their ticket out of service..

I think you'll find that in most countries not many people want to be forced to join the armed forces.

[sirchai]

A national football player caused a stir earlier this month after writing on the social networking website Facebook that he had paid 30,000 baht (1,000 dollars) to avoid military service. He later apologised and said he was joking.

:lol:

totster

He later apologized and said he was joking.

Anybody caught trying to escape conscription faces three years in prison, followed by a stint in the army, Norapon said.

Depending on who they are. :jap:

[sirchai]

Also spared from serving their country are transgender 'katoeys', or ladyboys.......Previously transsexuals were exempted on the grounds of a "psychological abnormality", but that has now been replaced by a "misshapen chest".

I guess that's a good move on Thailand's part. I mean, what army on earth would be intimidated by an army of katoeys running at them with guns bigger than them, makeup, high pitched screaming voices, and boobs bouncing all over. The only tactical advantage that could serve would be to make the other army laugh so hard, the Thai army could mount a surprise attack!!!

I havent seen women screaming -boobs bouncing- what they do in Pattaya isn't what they would do in the army.

A hard working Thai man working nights in a local market=15k a month, and evenings in a Karaoke at 10k a month, loses all that business, and is forced to go in. When your doing well in business you should be exempt.

The going rate in Buriram area to bribe is 30,000 bht, this is true I know 2 young people that paid. It all stinks-money gets you off in LOS

Making 15k a month working at a market? Plus 10 k in the evening? A teacher's making 9,000 baht in the beginning.

I don't think that there's a particular 'going rate' in Thailand. (Isan) When people know other people who can help them to avoid the Army, they'll also take money for their 'powerful' position.

There's nothing free in this country, but what's free in Europe, or any other places?

Guess it's more a 'social status' problem. Guys from a rich background will never have to go to such a lottery.

But you're right, money can solve most problems here, a farlang not too far away from your place had killed an innocent Thai speeding with his luxury car. One laan baht and he was neither speeding, nor drunk.

The police report had just been changed. Live with it, or leave it. ( The country) :jap:

[samtam]

Surely the conscription is not for everyone. I would be very surprised if any hiso children/youths had to dirty their hands with a lottery like this. Surely it's just for the little people? Anyway, I don't suppose there are any rules about these things or indeed that it's fair.

[fabianfred]

In many Thai High Schools (Mathayom) they have military training once a week and do a couple of camps a year. I believe this exempts them the service or lottery...??

[selftaopath]

It all stinks-money gets you off in LOS

Here here. In Land of Scams money can buy ANYTHING. I know people who got out of service vie payments.

Personally, I like Israel's approach. If I'm not mistaken EVERYBODY goes into the military for 2 yrs. I wish this was true in USA. And Thailand certainly might benefit if more Thai "men" went in. Currently it seem most Thai men are spoiled as hell and know nothing of taking responsibility for "little" things like their offspring.

And yes, I'm a US veteran.

[toffo9]

It makes a man of them best thing you can have in your life to start u off into adult life... I served in the british army and had sum of the best days of my life plus it gets them off the streets and being drunk all the time

[endure]

There are people who think that 'fighting a real war' (also known as killing people) isn't the best way to spend your life.

Sometimes you don't have a choice, and when attacked, solid training beats wishful thinking every time.

And people who join of their own free will are much more likely to make good servicemen (and women) than people who are forced to join.

[regine]

In many Thai High Schools (Mathayom) they have military training once a week and do a couple of camps a year. I believe this exempts them the service or lottery...??

This is correct. "Lor dor" does exempt you from the draft.

[regine]

Personally, I like Israel's approach. If I'm not mistaken EVERYBODY goes into the military for 2 yrs. I wish this was true in USA. And Thailand certainly might benefit if more Thai "men" went in. Currently it seem most Thai men are spoiled as hell and know nothing of taking responsibility for "little" things like their offspring.

And yes, I'm a US veteran.

Blah blah blah. "Farang" men good, Thai men bad.

Never heard of an American man abandoning his kids or being in arrears of child support.

[cdnvic]

Ok, enough generalizing and nationality bashing. Stick to the topic.

[samran]

Here here. In Land of Scams money can buy ANYTHING. I know people who got out of service vie payments.

Personally, I like Israel's approach. If I'm not mistaken EVERYBODY goes into the military for 2 yrs. I wish this was true in USA. And Thailand certainly might benefit if more Thai "men" went in. Currently it seem most Thai men are spoiled as hell and know nothing of taking responsibility for "little" things like their offspring.

And yes, I'm a US veteran.

oh dear, another self important superior person.

And pray-tell, can you define for me what "most" Thai men like to eat for dinner? Seems you are an expert on all things Thai!

[ginjag]

Here here. In Land of Scams money can buy ANYTHING. I know people who got out of service vie payments.

Personally, I like Israel's approach. If I'm not mistaken EVERYBODY goes into the military for 2 yrs. I wish this was true in USA. And Thailand certainly might benefit if more Thai "men" went in. Currently it seem most Thai men are spoiled as hell and know nothing of taking responsibility for "little" things like their offspring.

And yes, I'm a US veteran.

oh dear, another self important superior person.

And pray-tell, can you define for me what "most" Thai men like to eat for dinner? Seems you are an expert on all things Thai!

My personal view is what on earth do they want all the "poor"men in the army for?? They do not need half of the high ranking officers even.

Many of the people who say -it's good for them- -it'le make a man out of them - These are the ones who would not want to go themselves. The enrolling procedure is another corrupt scam to get "money out " payments. It is not just this as we know, here someone has to create an excuse to grab other peoples money, by anyway/any means. LOS, Give the lads a choice, a future in the forces, a trade, a purpose, and a decent wage. Then the nation would have a better backbone to build on.