Vietnam - Value For Money

[Jebhead]

My 2 cents worth - i worked in VN based out of VT for almost 3 years, my lasting memory is that almost everything you buy there is of poor quality......

VT was generally ok, pretty laid back and relatively civilized, although like Pattaya with people from BKK it's packed with people from HCM at weekends.

Communicating is a bit of a challenge as the level of English is generally pretty poor. However i did notice that the younger generation are very computer savvy.....

Infrastructure i think is not even close to what we have here in Thailand, roads & traffic is terrible.

See attached picture of Greenline ferry from HCM to VT, our secretary was on it, it was T-boned by another ferry, she shat her pants.......

JH

[ExpatOilWorker]

I am still impressed of how well priced Vietnam is. Erdinger beers are sold at the bars cheaper than you can get them at Villa in Bangkok.

The French sure left a great bread tradition here, just awesome bread.

[lekatai]

Having lived in Cambodia for a short while,Thailand for 4 years,and now Vietnam for nearly a year,I would say that Vietnam is cheaper than Cambodia for many things,and cheaper than Thailand for most things.I live in a small town,where there are no other foreign residents, but a fair number of Western visitors,and I've traveled fairly widely in Vietnam as well.It's true to say that a lot of Western foods are not easily found,except in the larger towns,but local fresh food is widely available,and seafood,meat,fruit and veg are much cheaper than Thailand.Utility bills are much lower.Beer is far cheaper,a case of 20 x 440ml bottles of Saigon Green costs 105,000VND (which is less than 5USD,approx 7THB a bottle)Wine is much cheaper than Thailand.There is a lot of debate about the merits of "Dalat wine" from Vietnam, it's not the best wine in the world,but for 2.5USD or 75THB a bottle,it's not that bad either.Western spirits are harder to find,but a bottle of Jim Beam costs about 350000VND (17USD or 500THB) More expensive than Cambodia,but a lot cheaper than Thailand.Transport costs in all 3 countries are broadly similar as far as I can see.Rental costs may well be higher in the bigger cities here,as there isn't so much available property to rent yet,but judging by the amount of building going on here,that may very well change in the not too distant future

[PattayaParent]

I am still impressed of how well priced Vietnam is. Erdinger beers are sold at the bars cheaper than you can get them at Villa in Bangkok.

The French sure left a great bread tradition here, just awesome bread.

And the cheese, you can get western cheese, especially French, in all the supermarkets I've been to in Ha Noi or HCMC.

[Stray]

Beer has always been cheap in Vietnam, but inflation is much higher than Thailand and a lot of other things are not any cheaper and some are more expensive.

I have lived in both places and much prefer Thailand for most things, but beer and Western food is better in the Nam.

Where's the best place in HCMC for a pizza UG?

Scoozi Pizza, on Thai Van Lung, District 1, Saigon.

Yes, the same chain you have in Bangkok.

[geriatrickid]

Vietnam is where a hot dog really is hot dog............

As a bit of trivia, Vietnam allows the use of some fungicides, pesticides and food colouring additives that are banned in North America and the EU. Those vibrant colours one sees in the fish products had a little help from Madame Tran, and Mr. Nguyen isn't too concerned if his Basa is contaminated.

VN may be fine for a visit, but get ensnared in the web of bureaucracy when you are trying to set up an international quality operation for the manufacture of some products and you want to go smack your head against a concrete wall for the pleasure it will bring vs. dealing with the layers of officials and regulations. Yea, yea, I know, garment and light manufacturers that are labour intensive don't have these problems.

Despite all that, I think Vietnam has a great future and will be the place to be within the decade once the infrastructure is completed. They just have to get some things sorted out first.

[Soutpeel]

As a bit of trivia, Vietnam allows the use of some fungicides, pesticides and food colouring additives that are banned in North America and the EU. Those vibrant colours one sees in the fish products had a little help from Madame Tran, and Mr. Nguyen isn't too concerned if his Basa is contaminated.

Does that include the use of Agent Orange ?....woospie that was the US who left that behind...

[rott]

Is there any Songkran in Vietnam? Looking for somewhere to avoid it, been told Cambodia is not too bad but would prefer Vietnam if it is sane there.

[theoldgit]

I'm going to Hanoi in a couple of weeks, looking at the posts from PP & lekathai I think I little bit of shooping is in order, maybe a couple of bottles of wine and some cheese, it's just a pity that their bread wouldn't travel too well.

What about eating out PP, is that decent and reasonable? Need to find somewhere half decent for a Valenties Day dinner.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's interesting... a discussion on living/visiting Vietnam...

But little discussion of one of the most important issues -- what kind of visas are available (apart from marrying a local) and what's involved in getting them.

Also, no mention of health care provisions, compared to Thailand or elsewhere.

And only passing mention of one of the other things I hear a lot about VN...and that is government bureaucracy and corruption that makes the Thais look like amateurs...

I've never been to Vietnam, so I can't speak from personal experience, though I am interested in others' experience.

But I had friends who visited there a year ago from the U.S. -- a married young couple, one Vietnamese and the other Thai... They came back disgusted, talking about sitting in a restaurant in Hanoi in the evening and having all the food scraps and garbage from all the prior diners that day left under the table they were sitting at.

When I asked them about the overall experience, they both said they'd rather go back to Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's interesting... a discussion on living/visiting Vietnam...

But little discussion of one of the most important issues -- what kind of visas are available (apart from marrying a local) and what's involved in getting them.

Also, no mention of health care provisions, compared to Thailand or elsewhere.

And only passing mention of one of the other things I hear a lot about VN...and that is government bureaucracy and corruption that makes the Thais look like amateurs...

I've never been to Vietnam, so I can't speak from personal experience, though I am interested in others' experience.

But I had friends who visited there a year ago from the U.S. -- a married young couple, one Vietnamese and the other Thai... They came back disgusted, talking about sitting in a restaurant in Hanoi in the evening and having all the food scraps and garbage from all the prior diners that day left under the table they were sitting at.

When I asked them about the overall experience, they both said they'd rather go back to Thailand.

[PattayaParent]

I'm going to Hanoi in a couple of weeks, looking at the posts from PP & lekathai I think I little bit of shooping is in order, maybe a couple of bottles of wine and some cheese, it's just a pity that their bread wouldn't travel too well.

What about eating out PP, is that decent and reasonable? Need to find somewhere half decent for a Valenties Day dinner.

Yes OG, plenty of good foreign and local places to eat out in Ha Noi.

Probably best for a romantic evening is Indochine restaurant, it's in an old French Colonial buiding but book ahead.

[PattayaParent]

Is there any Songkran in Vietnam? Looking for somewhere to avoid it, been told Cambodia is not too bad but would prefer Vietnam if it is sane there.

No songkran in Viet Nam.

[PattayaParent]

It's interesting... a discussion on living/visiting Vietnam...

But little discussion of one of the most important issues -- what kind of visas are available (apart from marrying a local) and what's involved in getting them.

Also, no mention of health care provisions, compared to Thailand or elsewhere.

And only passing mention of one of the other things I hear a lot about VN...and that is government bureaucracy and corruption that makes the Thais look like amateurs...

I've never been to Vietnam, so I can't speak from personal experience, though I am interested in others' experience.

But I had friends who visited there a year ago from the U.S. -- a married young couple, one Vietnamese and the other Thai... They came back disgusted, talking about sitting in a restaurant in Hanoi in the evening and having all the food scraps and garbage from all the prior diners that day left under the table they were sitting at.

When I asked them about the overall experience, they both said they'd rather go back to Thailand.

You can get tourist visas and business visas same as most countries, no retirement visas though. Apply in any embassy or consulate.

They have hospitals, you pay for treatment same as here so medical insurance would be a good idea.

Traffic fines are $10 as opposed to the 200 Baht here, although that's getting closer with the exchange rate.

3G service for your mobile is $4 per month and 'phone are cheaper there than in Thailand.

Cable TV service is $3 per month for the equivalent of TrueVisions (less sport channels though).

Electricity cheaper than Thailand, beer too and wine.

Cost of property cheaper than Thailand but with greater capital gains. Rents are expensive if you want a western style condo though. Cheaper if you live in a VN house.

It is getting more expensive in Ha Noi though as they have the highest inflation rate in Asia at the moment. Living 'up country' is cheaper.

International schools are only in the main cities of Ha Noi and Ho Chi Minh City and are about the same price as in Thailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks PP for that broader explanation of some of the various quality of life issues that are involved...

So if a person isn't trying to run a business, and isn't planning on marrying a local, what are the long-stay options that come into play?

[PattayaParent]

Thanks PP for that broader explanation of some of the various quality of life issues that are involved...

So if a person isn't trying to run a business, and isn't planning on marrying a local, what are the long-stay options that come into play?

Can't help you with that one as I have long stay through marriage.

[theoldgit]

Just one more question if you don't mind PP, I did visit Hanoi some years ago on a Saga Holidays tour so was pretty much led by the hand, I seem to recall that Visa and Amex Credit Cards were not widely accepted, if at all, and cash was king, is that still the case?

I also seem to recall that most people wanted US$ and that I had a job spending my suitcase full of Dong, again is this still the case?

Edited January 25, 2012 by theoldgit

[PattayaParent]

Just one more question if you don't mind PP, I did visit Hanoi some years ago on a Saga Holidays tour so was pretty much led by the hand, I seem to recall that Visa and Amex Credit Cards were not widely accepted, if at all, and cash was king, is that still the case?

I also seem to recall that most people wanted US$ and that I had a job spending my suitcase full of Dong, again is this still the case?

Dunno about Amex but my VN friends have Visa and Mastercard cards that are accepted everywhere, local ones obviously.

US$ cash is very much appreciated but you will have no problem spending Dong, the local places will always expect it and any tourist / expat restaurants etc. will have prices in US$ and Dong for you to choose which currency to pay.

Edit: Take your Thai ATM card as a back up as you can use them in the VN ATMs.

Edited January 25, 2012 by PattayaParent

[attrayant]

Two thumbs up from me as well. I'm resident in Thailand but I could very easily live in Vietnam is I had a wife here. I've visited twice a year for the past three or four years and stay for the entire month each time.

While i have never liked the backpacker areas of Bangkok, I actually like the hustle and bustle of the backpacker area in Saigon's district one, although I know many folks who prefer to avoid it. Most places have extensive menus and offer local, western, Italian, halal and many others... some places have it all under one roof.

Regarding the use of USD, I was told on my last visit by the owner of the hotel that there is a law forbidding Vietnamese businesses from transacting in foreign currency, however I still see prices listed in USD on the web sites and menus of pricier places like hotels and day spas.

"Fun" for hire is technically illegal and it seems to be very tightly controlled here. Hotels claim to require a marriage license if a foreigner brings a Vietnamese lady back to the room, although I have never tested this. I don't see many street walkers although I have had one or two uncomfortable moments where a guy rides up to me with the girl on the back of his motorbike and very flatly ask "wanna have sex?". There are also the massage boys on bicycles who circle the block shaking their rattles. I'm not sure exactly what the massage package offers but the whisper-whisper nature of the offer reeks of naughtiness.

I think somebody asked about Nha Trang. I'm not sure exactly what information is requested, but that's a great little beach city.

To answer the one-year old OP directly, I easily get more value for my dollar in Vietnam than in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think the questions one needs to ask about anyplace they're considering staying depends to some extent on whether they're planning a tourist/short-time visit vs. planning an extended stay/life home...

Some folks are commenting above about the prices of beer, the availability of P4P, and the best places to find pizza, which are among the typical kinds of tourist concerns... And nothing wrong with those, or any others similar.

But for someone who'd be considering Vietnam as a place to live, and whether it's "value for money," there probably are a different (or perhaps I should say an additional) set of questions that might be involved:

--How does one manage a long stay visa arrangement of some type if not married or running a business?

--If you need hospitalization or an operation, how's the quality of available facilities?

--What's the ability to open and conduct local banking (accounts, ATM cards, online banking)?

--How well is someone going to get along day-to-day who doesn't speak/understand Vietnamese?

--Everybody has creature conforts they enjoy (burritos, pizza, a particular drink, whatever). Can you find and buy western type stuff there and at what kind of prices?

--As a foreigner, are you able to directly make living arrangements on your own (such as home rentals, utilities, services like internet, cable TV, etc.), or do the local authorities require a Vietnamese to execute such things?

Those kinds of things don't much matter for a short-time visit. But they matter a long for any kind of longer stay.

[tutsiwarrior]

I've lived in VN on and off for about 2 years and if yer based in HCMC or Hanoi the quality of life is superior to Thailand if yer on a western salary with the usual benefits and etc...plenty of girls, booze and quality medical care for those that worry about 'communist restrictions'

now, if yer an english teacher I don't know what to expect compared to Thailand...I've seen some crazy assed westerners on motorbikes fighting the crazy traffic but I live on a different planet where comfortable transport is always available...

it's also the most beautiful place that I've seen in Asia, talking about the north on the main road south from Hanoi that still remains after all of the fighting and bullshit with western colonial powers...they are a very resilient people and to be admired...

I remember staring across the table with a pizza and a bar girl in HCMC and her smirking and saying: 'what are you looking at?...'...she couldn't have imagined...

[Nignoy]

mrs nig and I will be in Hcm city and VT from the 7th of february so we will be able to send a few piccies and a bit more up to date information on moving to vietnam, and prices and soforth, I always look forward to the fishing in vietnam,If I could find a houseboat, I would say FXXX Centrelink and would not bother going back to australia

[PattayaParent]

I think the questions one needs to ask about anyplace they're considering staying depends to some extent on whether they're planning a tourist/short-time visit vs. planning an extended stay/life home...

Some folks are commenting above about the prices of beer, the availability of P4P, and the best places to find pizza, which are among the typical kinds of tourist concerns... And nothing wrong with those, or any others similar.

But for someone who'd be considering Vietnam as a place to live, and whether it's "value for money," there probably are a different (or perhaps I should say an additional) set of questions that might be involved:

--How does one manage a long stay visa arrangement of some type if not married or running a business?

Don't know, only 1 guy I know there falls into that category and his girlfriend managed to get him a visa through her company. Didn't Gary Glitter have a long stay visa though? (and I don't mean the time he served in prison).

--If you need hospitalization or an operation, how's the quality of available facilities?

Pretty much like a Thai government hospital although in HCMC they have a big international hospital and in Ha Noi they have an SOS clinic. Best to have medical insurance.

--What's the ability to open and conduct local banking (accounts, ATM cards, online banking)?

Easier than in Thailand as they don't ask for a work permit.

--How well is someone going to get along day-to-day who doesn't speak/understand Vietnamese?

Much like Thailand it depends where you are. In the main cities it's not so much a problem but out in the countryside it could be. A lot of older VN speak French and Russian, the younger ones English.

--Everybody has creature conforts they enjoy (burritos, pizza, a particular drink, whatever). Can you find and buy western type stuff there and at what kind of prices?

Plenty of western food stuffs, restaurants, beers and wines available in Ha Noi and HCMC, not so much 'up country' except wines and whiskies.

http://www.wordhcmc.com/eat-drink/restaurants

--As a foreigner, are you able to directly make living arrangements on your own (such as home rentals, utilities, services like internet, cable TV, etc.), or do the local authorities require a Vietnamese to execute such things?

Yes, possible to do. You'll need a police letter stating you live at the address though.

Those kinds of things don't much matter for a short-time visit. But they matter a long for any kind of longer stay.

You have to consider weather also. The south is much like Thailand and the north is very cold and drizzly in the winter.

http://www.wordhcmc.com/

Edited January 26, 2012 by PattayaParent

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Very good and informative answers, PP... Thanks for those.

I'm not looking to move, and my wife is Thai... But I guess I ought to do some research on the visas issue.

I always keep in the back of my mind, what (and where) is my fallback plan going to be if things ever become untenable in Thailand due to political instability, visas changes or who knows what else.

I don't expect that. But like the old Boy Scouts model, best to be prepared... even if you never need it.

[PattayaParent]

^VN is definitley a fallback position for me at the moment but in the future should become the permanent base with time split 60/40 with Thailand.

Even with my visa through marriage I am only given 90 days entry though but that is easily extended for another 90 days at immigration for $10 a go and can continue to be extended without leaving the country.

Edit: I should be able to get temporary residence which would mean no need for the visa extensions but they have stopped issuing them for now.

Edited January 26, 2012 by PattayaParent

[tutsiwarrior]

mrs nig and I will be in Hcm city and VT from the 7th of february so we will be able to send a few piccies and a bit more up to date information on moving to vietnam, and prices and soforth, I always look forward to the fishing in vietnam,If I could find a houseboat, I would say FXXX Centrelink and would not bother going back to australia

head down south from HCMC to the Mekong delta and you might be able to find what yer looking for...it's a really big river...

I lived up north near Dong Hoi and Vinh and beautiful rivers up there as well...get yerself an old cement barge and build yer accommodation and cruise on...a good suggestion; might try it meself...

Edited January 26, 2012 by tutsiwarrior

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There's obviously other TV threads with info about Vietnam and visas... I looked at one quickly now...

http://www.thaivisa....sa-for-vietnam/

In that thread, there's links to a private visa info site re Vietnam... which only talks about 15 to 30 day tourist visas...

http://www.myvietnam...ietnam-visa.htm

But there's also a link to the Vietnam Embassy in Thailand website, where the visa instructions document talks about visa stays of up to 6 months or up to 1 years... no explanation of under what circumstances.

http://www.vietnamem.../ns070629043840

Their visa application form seems pretty generic...and doesn't seem to deal with different categories at all... Just dates requested and purpose of trip.

http://www.vietnamem...RM.pdf/download

And, here's one recent TV post that kind of summarizes the Vietnam visa situation, portraying it as not very hospitable for would-be long stayers:

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4581131

Edited January 26, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[MarkCyr]

Although I got REALLY tired of the constant hassle from touts and kids selling stuff on the streets, I loved Vietnam. HCMC (Saigon) is amazing in its chaos -- and with incredible food and super cheap beer, you really can't go wrong there. And Mui Ne just up to the north by the beach was also incredible. Then there's the people...I really loved everything about Vietnam!

[bangkokburning]

I would be in Vietnam at least part of the year if I were not attched to a Thai woman.

They do though - not like foreigners much as part of the culture and it strikes me as worse than Thailand. At one level, its a national psyche thing and at another level its a lack of acceptance and duty to family thing - of which you are NEVER a part of.

[PattayaParent]

I would be in Vietnam at least part of the year if I were not attched to a Thai woman.

They do though - not like foreigners much as part of the culture and it strikes me as worse than Thailand. At one level, its a national psyche thing and at another level its a lack of acceptance and duty to family thing - of which you are NEVER a part of.

Considering you have no family connections there what qualifies you to make such a statement.

Maybe you're thinking of your situation in Thailand rather than Viet Nam.